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OfflineChuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 628
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
looking for my spiritual path
    #19159791 - 11/19/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I may edit/change/add things to this post later if something comes to mind or I find better words to describe.


First a little background..


I went to catholic schools my entire life. Always had a religion class about that school's specific belief set influence my overall gpa. Never felt any real connection to anything catholic. Felt like they always wanted you to feel guilty about something. Being born with sin always got to me too. I mean how can a new born have sinned? How is that just?

One time in middle school I decided to participate in a service, rather than just sitting there fulfilling the attendance requirement. Of course my reasons at the time were not spiritual, but was cause I had a crush on a girl that was religious.
  During the participation I did feel something, maybe "connected" in a way. My wiccan mother told me that I had simply tapped into the energy of everyone there, and that was what compelled people to participate in main stream religious activities.
  For a while I subscribed to her explanation. Once I heard from my 6 year old sister that my mother had convinced her that casting fireballs from your hands as if you were a witch on the "charmed" show was possible through wicca, I no longer could believe anything my mother told me on any sort of spiritual subject.

Fast forward to high school. Was disowned by my mother and living with my father's side of the family. They are all atheist. Atheist to the point where they feel they need to be dicks to anyone with any sort of belief. Handing out pamphlets about how people's religion was wrong and that they were dumb for believing, and then starting fights with anyone who got offended. :rolleyes: Because of this I was unable to pursue anything spiritual.



Now I am free to pursue any sort of spirituality that I want, and have been doing so off and on for the past 3 years. I got divorced from my wife of 4 years a little under a year ago. This has given me the freedom to really look into what path is right for me ever since she left. 


My problem is this.
  I feel as though there is something more to this existence. Something spiritual, something bigger than what we can perceive or understand. Something that connects the entire universe. Be it a god or gods, the cosmos itself, or any number of other "higher power" type ideas. 
  Everything I read or look into, however, always comes back to having to "submit" to this higher power. That this higher power requires us to submit to it and bend to its will. And if we don't follow the rules we will be sent to eternal torture, doomed to be reborn over and over, or some other sort of "punishment".


Personally I feel like if there is a higher power, that according to most religions loves us unconditionally, it wouldn't want us to feel inferior to it. I always get half way into reading up about a spiritual path that preaches god's love, or that we are all part of god, then goes onto saying that we need to submit to this god or gives a bunch of conditions.

If i were this higher power that loved every entity and wanted good for everything, I would want anyone to feel like they don't need to do anything for me to love you. Or give you conditions for my love or to enter into a desirable afterlife.


Is there any path out there that wont end up telling me I need to submit to god's will, or give me conditions to enter a heaven? I don't need the promise of heaven in order to do good or not be a dick. It would be really nice to find something to believe in where I wont feel like I need to make sure Im doing everything right.

I find some comfort in meditation. Maybe even half way subscribe to the whole kundalini evergy thing. I just hate everything always coming back to having to be submissive to this higher power.


Thoughts?


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Invisibledionysiandame
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Registered: 08/27/13
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19159937 - 11/19/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

There are plenty of paths that don't involve submitting to a higher power. Luciferianism, for example, eschews the notion of "worshipping" or bowing to anything and, instead, can require the querent to seek enlightenment through both "dark" and "light" paths.

I'm a hard polytheist, so I do worship certain deities and place them above me but the relationship of worshipper/devotee is fed through the keeping of altars/shrines and some similance of sacrifice. I mean no offence, but many Neo-Wiccans I've come across tend to lack any sense of actual religious fervor and instead are looking for some kind of magical self-help with a little splash of herbalism and folk-magic for good measure. There is nothing WRONG with this, but sometimes we need to call it what it is.

If Eastern philosophy suits you a bit more than go with that. Look into different forms of Buddhism. Kundalini is an aspect of Hinduist Yogic practice. Unfortunately, here in the West, it's been removed from a lot of its cultural/religious context for new-age consumption. Or maybe even consider going "path-less" for awhile and just seeking to connect with this cosmic fountain/entity you envision, they may give you a better idea of where you need to go.

Also, bear in mind that in approaching some gods/spirits, they won't love you. While I have a specific type of devoted relationship to Dionysus, I do not believe he loves me. Holds me in some esteem as one of his maenads? Definitely. But to say he loves me would be folly.

Bon Chance!


--------------------
He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. :psychsplit:
Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human
Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.


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Offlineall this beauty
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Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19160271 - 11/19/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Brave thing you've done there in your post, Chuck -- spill out your guts for all to see.  Particularly brave to do it before an audience of relative strangers.  Kudos to you.

Sounds like you've had enough of "submission" in your life.  You don't need any more of it.  Stay away from religious/spiritual groups that urge/require "submission."

Use your new-found freedom wisely.  Hook up with people who don't have a particular "agenda."

Exchange of cash currency is a red flag.  If a group or organization wants money from you (we were talking in another thread about the TM Movement -- a good example of this), be leery.  If they want your money, they're probably not primarily interested in your well-being and spiritual growth.

Stay on this forum and continue to read and post.  Visit other sites where you can find a good cross section of views and perspectives.

Good luck to you, buddy.


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Offlinebloodbrother778
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Registered: 10/26/07
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: all this beauty]
    #19160394 - 11/19/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

ah this is legit, you already sound like you're on the right path

makes me nostalgic about the time when I first started thinking for myself

my advice to you is this:
learn to listen to your heart
in other words learn to be sensitive enough to discern the subtleties of your emotional body
then it will be your guide

cause the thing is there are a lot of bullshit artists in this world and even if you find the "right path" there will undoubtedly be many there as well
so the trick is not so much finding the "right path" but finding the right people
and this you must be able to feel, because once you can discern the workings of your own heart you will also be able to see into the hearts of others and then you can understand where a person is coming from and whether they will be useful or harmful to you in your journey

although feeling this is one thing, but listening to those feelings is another
so try not to get down on yourself if you fail either - you'll come around, it's all part of the learning process

I'm excited for you, you've got a lot of awesomeness coming your way.  Many trials too, but if you keep sight of your goal at all times you'll be fine.  Focus on your goal and don't look back, don't even look sideways :smile:.


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OfflineChuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 628
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: bloodbrother778]
    #19164601 - 11/20/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Some times I really have to stop myself from the wishful thinking. Pursuing something because the idea is comforting at first. This happened to me with reading a bunch of Ram Das books and looking into Hinduism.

Fell in love with the sincerity of his story, and the idea of having such steadfast belief with no questioning or insecurity. It took me a couple months for the fantasy to fade, and the reality to set in. I slowly started to realize that it was the same as most other belief systems I had looked into, just with a little more mysticism than the western faiths I had tried.

A few books and translations fed my desires while others shown light on the truth behind it all. Noticing that I had to submit to the godhead, even though its an entity of pure love. Rules to follow with punishment for not. Everyone and their brother all having a different interpretation, usually what ever is convenient. Pretty much everything that turns me away from mainstream religion.



  My biggest dream is to be shown some sort of conclusive(to me) evidence supporting a school of thought. So that I could really believe and be comforted, not having to wonder anymore. Maybe actually feel that omnipotent love that everyone talks about. Be one of those people smiling their ass off talking about their god to a camera. :shrug:
  Because of this I have to be very careful with how caught up in the "magic" I become, and approach everything with almost insensitive skepticism. Less I fall prey to the pipe dream for a few months before coming back to reality.


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Offlinebloodbrother778
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Registered: 10/26/07
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19164771 - 11/20/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

we all have doubts, fears and insecurities
the question is what we do with them?

courage is not about never being afraid, it is about doing what you think is right even when you are scared shitless - just don't look at the fear

attention is our power and what we give attention to flourishes, regardless of whether it is positive or negative

the evidence that you search is within you, nobody can tell you anything or do anything for you.  think about this analogy:  how would you describe the color red to a blind person?
a single moment of actually seeing the color red would show that person much more than you could ever put into words.  same type deal here - if I we're Michael Jordan I wouldn't be able to just take my basketball talent and somehow place it inside of you.  I can give clues - but the effort must be your own.  What I've learned is that the things I feel most satisfied with learning have taken great effort on my part to learn, but when I am just given something I don't really care about it and usually throw it away.

You've got many questions, they will not all be settled in a day.  Try to slow down because during periods of frantic activity it becomes hard to hear your heart, your inner voice - which is more of a feeling than a voice (for me at least) and it is quite subtle so to hear it you must be clear of all this noise.  Once you truly hear it you will know what to do and what to "believe" without anyone having to tell you.

Not exactly sure of what you mean by saying that you want to really believe and be comforted.  I say be comfortable in the uncertainty - say "ok this is all so uncertain so I'm just not going to worry about it".  I did this once on a mushroom trip when I was feeling really turbulent and the results were amazing.

I'll leave you with a quote from Thomas Jefferson:

"Question everything, even the existence of a God, because if there be one He must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blind-folded fear."


Edited by bloodbrother778 (11/20/13 11:42 AM)


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Offlineeve69
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: bloodbrother778]
    #19165345 - 11/20/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

When I was a little kid there were these St Germain 7th Ray people and I used to listen to their harp stuff and lie on my back and think I Am Dead. Do what thou will God.  7th ray was purple light. So sometime during this time I met gurus and got initiations. I think the first one was Guru Datta. From a guru named Datta. At a psychic fair.


--------------------
...or something







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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19168149 - 11/20/13 11:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I would begin at the beginning, with understanding a bit more about what you are as a being, and from there approach BEING. It is the center of your individual being, the ego, that fights against the very source of its existence. The ego is a little wave that comes into being, peaks, and disappears on the Other Shore. For most people, all they seem to experience is themselves as a separate wave, AS IF each person's wave-identity were separate from the very Ocean from which the wave emerged and merged with again. Therefore, I recommend a book that is virtually colorless with regard to specific religious jargon. Although, I see Tibetan Buddhist Mahamudra when I read it, the term is never mentioned, and it is the ONLY book I have read 5 times and continue to pick up when I'm troubled:



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineChuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 628
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19169081 - 11/21/13 09:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you for the suggestion. I'm about to look it up on my kindle right now :thumbup:


I've been meditating more and more lately. I've never done it for too long, maybe an hour was my longest. I usually just sit cross legged, and just focus on my breathing, in and out, in and out. Sure makes 15 or 20 minutes go by pretty fast, and I always come out of it in a very relaxed state. I feel like I should be in robes with my head shaved for about 5 minutes afterward, then I sort of come down from it and feel normal again.

Would be really cool if I could achieve that after effect for long periods of a time, or even permanently.


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OfflineChuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 628
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19178877 - 11/23/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Couldn't find that book.


Anyone have any suggestions for reading material? Maybe something halfway well known cause I dont really want to bother with shipping or anything, just to look it up on my kindle.

Maybe topics like easy yoga positions since im not very bendy, kundalini stuff, chakra meditation would be cool to read about. I just dont really need one of the those books that tells me how to act or anything. I always seem to get to a part of a book where they tell me to be good or humble or charitable or something. I already know to not be a dick :tongue:


While I was meditating today I had played some "aum" chanting in the back, trying to match the vibration I was making to that of what was playing. Seems like I slipped into that kind of slowed down, relaxed state I get into after meditating for a little while. Was pretty cool, I'll probably be trying that while I meditate from now on.

I have to look up the correct way to sit :lol:. My feet always fall asleep :shrug:


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19178901 - 11/23/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Chuckfinely said:
Anyone have any suggestions for reading material?



Anything that Alan Watts wrote.

I find his later works (which reflect his gradual shift away from a Christian paradigm and toward a more Eastern mystical frame of reference) to be most instructive.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19178913 - 11/23/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Chuckfinely said:
I may edit/change/add things to this post later if something comes to mind or I find better words to describe.


First a little background..


I went to catholic schools my entire life. Always had a religion class about that school's specific belief set influence my overall gpa. Never felt any real connection to anything catholic. Felt like they always wanted you to feel guilty about something. Being born with sin always got to me too. I mean how can a new born have sinned? How is that just?

One time in middle school I decided to participate in a service, rather than just sitting there fulfilling the attendance requirement. Of course my reasons at the time were not spiritual, but was cause I had a crush on a girl that was religious.
  During the participation I did feel something, maybe "connected" in a way. My wiccan mother told me that I had simply tapped into the energy of everyone there, and that was what compelled people to participate in main stream religious activities.
  For a while I subscribed to her explanation. Once I heard from my 6 year old sister that my mother had convinced her that casting fireballs from your hands as if you were a witch on the "charmed" show was possible through wicca, I no longer could believe anything my mother told me on any sort of spiritual subject.

Fast forward to high school. Was disowned by my mother and living with my father's side of the family. They are all atheist. Atheist to the point where they feel they need to be dicks to anyone with any sort of belief. Handing out pamphlets about how people's religion was wrong and that they were dumb for believing, and then starting fights with anyone who got offended. :rolleyes: Because of this I was unable to pursue anything spiritual.



Now I am free to pursue any sort of spirituality that I want, and have been doing so off and on for the past 3 years. I got divorced from my wife of 4 years a little under a year ago. This has given me the freedom to really look into what path is right for me ever since she left. 


My problem is this.
  I feel as though there is something more to this existence. Something spiritual, something bigger than what we can perceive or understand. Something that connects the entire universe. Be it a god or gods, the cosmos itself, or any number of other "higher power" type ideas. 
  Everything I read or look into, however, always comes back to having to "submit" to this higher power. That this higher power requires us to submit to it and bend to its will. And if we don't follow the rules we will be sent to eternal torture, doomed to be reborn over and over, or some other sort of "punishment".


Personally I feel like if there is a higher power, that according to most religions loves us unconditionally, it wouldn't want us to feel inferior to it. I always get half way into reading up about a spiritual path that preaches god's love, or that we are all part of god, then goes onto saying that we need to submit to this god or gives a bunch of conditions.

If i were this higher power that loved every entity and wanted good for everything, I would want anyone to feel like they don't need to do anything for me to love you. Or give you conditions for my love or to enter into a desirable afterlife.


Is there any path out there that wont end up telling me I need to submit to god's will, or give me conditions to enter a heaven? I don't need the promise of heaven in order to do good or not be a dick. It would be really nice to find something to believe in where I wont feel like I need to make sure Im doing everything right.

I find some comfort in meditation. Maybe even half way subscribe to the whole kundalini evergy thing. I just hate everything always coming back to having to be submissive to this higher power.


Thoughts?




  Everything I read or look into, however, always comes back to having to "submit" to this higher power. That this higher power requires us to submit to it and bend to its will. And if we don't follow the rules we will be sent to eternal torture, doomed to be reborn over and over, or some other sort of "punishment".

to me I try to live in gods name
help others i.e.

I am trying to find my spiritual path too after I got very sick for many months, still am, kidney problems
but I think it has slowly started to appear now

no coincidences, you got the map on you all the time :-)

for me... thoughts/desires/emotions create attachment,suffering
I try to moderate everything I do most of the time
no suffering without thoughts

the greatest happiness is from making/seeing others happy


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Offlineeve69
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: lessismore]
    #19179042 - 11/23/13 01:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

lookin for my own spiritual path
i don't want no mothers
all up in my bath
i want a smilin face
with that chunk of bread
when i'm pass out low oh
will your hands lift me oh no.

if you aint part solution
you're part trouble
I got plenty myself
do I need double?

so chip in on the rent bub
what say ya?
i may as well be climbin
himalayas

lookin for my spiritual path
one with out all the wrath
if you're an ostrich
i'm a giraffe

lookin for my own spiritual path


--------------------
...or something







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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: lessismore]
    #19179077 - 11/23/13 01:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
the greatest happiness is from making/seeing others happy



If you genuinely believe that, you've won.

What more do you think you need to achieve?


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OfflineChuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

Registered: 06/27/13
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: all this beauty]
    #19183756 - 11/24/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I read that poem like I was in a smokey coffee shop, and you were tapping the symbols on the drum set behind the rymes :rofl:


I like it:thumbup:

Ive been listening to terence mckenna talks a little more lately. Something about the way he talks makes it very listen-able. I've heard him mention dec 2012 too many times today though, enough of that :crazy2:

I would love to hear what he would have to say about the world today


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19184644 - 11/24/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Chuck I feel like we are an the exact same shoes. I too am trying to find a spiritual path to enlightenment. I was raised in Christianity and  for some reason it saddened me when I could no longer accept it. Almost like I wanted it to be true. I think a big part of the journey is to understand the ego.

I feel like i'm getting there although some of the realizations I've come to lately have terrified me and I've had much trouble accepting them. I hope that makes sense


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OfflineChuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 628
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Stromrider]
    #19185184 - 11/25/13 12:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

totally :thumbup:

Its kinda like you half way believe the fairy tale while you're still young, even if you have your doubts, its still back there.
Then you get a little older, start to think for yourself, and start seeing holes in the fairy tale that used to be a source of comfort. As time goes on you see more and more inconsistencies, until you finally reach a point where you can no longer leech any comfort or hope from what now seems to be the equivalent to santa clause.

In my case this is where I start to grasp at straws. Looking for some sort of "faith" to trust in but everything seems to good to be true. Upon further inspection most are, just a different adaptation of the same fairy tale you grew up with. This is where I get the longing to find something that I can just throw myself into, and not have to worry and doubt anymore.

Wouldn't it be great to be one of those people who is just steadfast no matter what, the comfort and peace of mind that would come from 100% unshakable faith? I suppose I've just always been a firm believer in the fact that ignorance is bliss. To that effect, I wish I was born as one of my spoiled ass dogs I used to have :shrug:


I tried to watch some documentary the other night. And the more I thought about it and the more I listened to these phd's drone on and on about the big bang and particles of matter, it became more and more clear. We know why and how the big bang happened about as well as we know why and how god could happen. Seriously, wheres the before? What was the nothing before the big bang? If matter is 99% empty space why am I solid? Why do I appear to be touching something when its really just a charge built between your's and the object's particles that is repelling the two objects on such a micro level that appears to be in contact? Why can certain particles be in the same place at two times? How can reality be real if anything is possible?



Big Bang
  If there was nothing before the big bang then the only logical conclusion I can come to is that my consciousness and life are totally random/meaningless and will just cease to be once my body dies. There is no enlightenment, there is only tricking your brain into releasing certain chemicals to make you believe whatever enlightenment or faith you choose.
  In this case the only option I have is to accept that I am a spec of insignificance, doomed to suffer until it finally all just ends with one last jolt of miserable sickness or violent end. Never to see any sort of higher plane, enlightenment, ascention, or punishment after the darkness of dieing, probably in pain.


God
  So some how I have to believe that there is just some higher being that has always been? There was no before? There has to be something that caused this ultimate consciousness to come to be.
  In this case my only option is to submit to some unexplainable higher power, do his will, worship him, etc, and hope for a positive after life outcome? How do I know which one is right? How can they all claim god loves you, but then put conditions on it. Refer to my previous statement about my feeling on how god works in my OP.

Because of this I just cannot believe in a god, even though being able to would give me peace of mind, no matter how hard I try.


I'm screwed:imafirinmahlazer:


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19185458 - 11/25/13 04:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

WOW! All that you just said... Its like your in my head. It's all the things I've been pondering ;wellholyshit:


I think your right though. I think life is easier for those who are unintelligent or weak minded and just go through life on faith believing the fairy tale. I've often harbored that thought. When I was little and my dad told me Santa was a fairy tale I expected he would soon tell me the bible stories were as well but he never did :lol:

It's sounds like you're mind works a lot like mine so you've probably also wondered if the ego is the delusion. I think of this a lot. What if the universe is conscious and we're a part of that like a collective and only our ego is the delusion? You could look at the ego as evolutions way of giving us the power of self-awareness so that we can get up and walk around and interact with our environment. I don't know man I hope that makes sense. I'd like to hear what you're thought is on this because that is one little revelation that just terrifies the hell out of me for some reason

Here's my thought on the God of the Bible. If the God of the Bible exist he is not something I could bring myself to worship and love. It's as simple as that for me. To me it's obvious that the God of the Bible is man made  so I don't think we have anything to worry about there.


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OfflineChuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Stromrider]
    #19185735 - 11/25/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I would be happy with that. Some sort of ultimate consciousness that we just re join when we die. Some sort of ultimate and eternal understanding of the reason things are as they are.

Kind of like life is the rain drop and death is that rain drop falling into and rejoining the ocean

That just raises a new set of doubt and questions for me. Is the great consciousness self aware? Self aware with an ego or no ego? When I join it will I have any notion of self, or maybe my earthy self. Is it eternal or am I going to have to suffer through life and death as part of it?


For some reason my mind is able to grasp at straws, holding the hope that something will click in my head one day and give me some relief, but still needs concrete proof before I'll ever believe anything.
  People get kind of annoyed with it, I doubt every story and assume everything claimed is a lie until proven. 90% of the time I'm right:rolleyes:


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19186010 - 11/25/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

These are the questions that have eluded man for centuries. I guess you have to find your own answers within yourself :shrug:

Good luck on your spiritual journey. Wish me luck on mine. Please let me know of any revelation or conclusions you come to. Sounds like we are in nearly the same place right now. For whatever reason it's comforting to know that I'm not alone in this pursuit for answers. Thanks so much for sharing


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