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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: blindingleaf]
#19636518 - 03/01/14 07:41 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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i've got enoki on sterilized coir now, but its not liking it as much as sawdust

coir on left, 2 sawdust to the right of it
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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invitro


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19636568 - 03/01/14 07:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Why is there a question? It's coir. Coir works sterilized, bucketed, or pasteurized. There's no real difference with the prep for the coir so long as it colonizes, and all three methods will be fine if you have clean grain spawn.
RR, myself, cronicr, pasty, have all been saying this 
In this thread: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19619773#19619773 RR said "the bucket tek is bunk" referring to coir. That was less than a week ago.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: invitro]
#19636583 - 03/01/14 07:54 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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You missed the context apparently. Bucket tek is a bunk method of pasteurizing, but it works for preparing coir.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Bucket tek is bunk, but that's not the problem. Your spawn was contaminated. Coir will not contaminate before first flush unless you spawn grains with molds to it. Fix what is broken first. RR
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Perhaps with coir the best term is cooked. Even when left untreated, mold spores rarely germinate on plain coir. However, it's also piss-poor for mushroom mycelium as those who have used un-pasteurized coir for mushroom growing can attest. I suspect it has something to do with making the cells easier for the mycelium to digest, much like the effect we humans get from cooking our food.
In that light, coir requires neither pasteurization nor sterilization, even though both seem to perform equally well, as does tossing it into a bucket with some boiling water. RR
(bold added for emphasis )
Edited by FrankHorrigan (03/01/14 08:00 PM)
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1down5up
Social Ninja



Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 1,743
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19638345 - 03/02/14 06:19 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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This tub was spawned to sterilized CVG, and then cased with the same. If there was anything wrong with it, i would've known by now.
 
-------------------- ~~Everything is relative~~ A Simplified Overview of Mushroom Cultivation Strategies - RR says - EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes - Frank's list of goodies - Cronicr's Goodies No one is placed higher than another no matter race or creed or gender, we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life. J.L.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: invitro]
#19638830 - 03/02/14 10:02 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said:
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Why is there a question? It's coir. Coir works sterilized, bucketed, or pasteurized. There's no real difference with the prep for the coir so long as it colonizes, and all three methods will be fine if you have clean grain spawn.
RR, myself, cronicr, pasty, have all been saying this 
In this thread: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19619773#19619773 RR said "the bucket tek is bunk" referring to coir. That was less than a week ago.
Yes, people do make seemingly contradictory statements. I have found the best way to clarify these episodes is through experimentation. I don't always have a good scientific explanation for why stuff happens, but I get the job done.
Pasteurization and sterilization of CVG definitely work and are my preferred methods.
I still have my doubts about the reliability of just throwing boiling water on CVG in a bucket. But, I digress: Official Bucket Tek vs Pasteurization Thread
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: SpitballJedi]
#19638926 - 03/02/14 10:31 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you can use sterile coir spawned in open air, bucket coir is going to be no problem.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19638938 - 03/02/14 10:35 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Have you gone back to bucket tek?
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: SpitballJedi]
#19639004 - 03/02/14 11:02 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I mean, I haven't "gone back" to it. But it works fine for coir and verm alone.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19639126 - 03/02/14 11:47 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Some damn good discussion here, can't wait to see your bucket results Frank
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: 1down5up]
#19639132 - 03/02/14 11:49 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
1down5up said: If there was anything wrong with it, i would've known by now.
Don't say that til you harvest your first flush and see the start of the second, trust me, I speak from experience.
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1down5up
Social Ninja



Registered: 11/04/13
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19640384 - 03/02/14 04:30 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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good point frank...and i do trust you, everything i've read first flush is over, will soak tomorrow or the next day. I'll keep ya's posted.
-------------------- ~~Everything is relative~~ A Simplified Overview of Mushroom Cultivation Strategies - RR says - EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes - Frank's list of goodies - Cronicr's Goodies No one is placed higher than another no matter race or creed or gender, we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life. J.L.
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 3,660
Last seen: 7 months, 30 days
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: 1down5up]
#19659635 - 03/06/14 02:49 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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so would my mycelium be just as contam resistant before and after 1st flush using "cooked" probably sterilized unless you think bucket tek will work with coir verm and gypsum(have had my brick not fully hydrated a few times leaving solid dry chunks in my sub) as pasteurized or should i leave something out(gypsum, maybe verm too) In other words do you know if the two(pasteurization and sterilizing) work exactly identical with these three ingredients coir/verm and gypsum
and does a pasteurized colonized substrate last longer than a sterilized in terms of flushes and contam
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Edited by tombosley8 (03/06/14 02:51 PM)
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1down5up
Social Ninja



Registered: 11/04/13
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: tombosley8]
#19659756 - 03/06/14 03:27 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Excellent question...I don't know the answer to that one
-------------------- ~~Everything is relative~~ A Simplified Overview of Mushroom Cultivation Strategies - RR says - EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes - Frank's list of goodies - Cronicr's Goodies No one is placed higher than another no matter race or creed or gender, we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life. J.L.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: 1down5up]
#19659831 - 03/06/14 03:48 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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beats me but after the first flush you're still fully colonized so it should be just as contam resistant aside from being older. The bigger issues to worry about are having a good fast culture that colonizes in the 10 day range, having your field capacity perfect, having lots of fresh air, and not destroying your substrate when you harvest.
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 3,660
Last seen: 7 months, 30 days
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: tombosley8]
#19659865 - 03/06/14 04:01 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Does any one use a large container with a steamer to sterilize/cook?
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 3,660
Last seen: 7 months, 30 days
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: tombosley8]
#19659871 - 03/06/14 04:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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are you saying if not colonized in 10 days a non pasteurized is likely to contam or does this go for pasteurized sub as well?
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: tombosley8]
#19659879 - 03/06/14 04:06 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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i tried pasteurizing in a large 5 lb bucket in my PC once. i use them to grow in, and figured it would be perfect way to measure out amt of substrate i need. its pp5 plastic meant for holding tuna and chicken salad in deli i work in. even after 1 hour, the temp in center had climbed barely 9 degrees. with glass and bags, it was taking 24-30 minutes to get up 20 degrees. not sure why that happened, or if it would happen to u, but glass heats up and holds its heat better than plastic, and bags are so thin, even if u have a lot of substrate in them, the heat from the water is nearly touching them, for all intensive purposes. so just be careful with large containers if they are plastic, make sure u got a thermometer in there. have not tried these containers with PC pressure cycle tho.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: tombosley8]
#19659887 - 03/06/14 04:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: are you saying if not colonized in 10 days a non pasteurized is likely to contam or does this go for pasteurized sub as well?
not necessarily if ur spawn is good. goes for any substrate though that if its partly uncolonized it is susceptible to con tams .
if u are using non treated substrate, it will likely take longer than 10 days, and may not finish at all. i tried it once with plain coir. colonized 50% then stopped, but did not contam before i threw it out (i kept it closed with just GE holes)
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 3,660
Last seen: 7 months, 30 days
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: blindingleaf]
#19659896 - 03/06/14 04:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I meant like a 30 gal resevoir with a wagner steamer hose hooked up to bottom and say a rack with bags of sub(obviously coir sub probobly around 5 qts each)spaced appropriately and let run for a few hours with a near seal on the lid to allow as little steam escape as possible.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
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Re: Think I might have sterilized my sub [Re: tombosley8]
#19659920 - 03/06/14 04:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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yea that would work b/c u wouldn't need to worry about temps getting over 160 with coir/verm/gyp. i mean as long as its getting steamed for an extended period, and not just hot water thats steaming a little, it should work
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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