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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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What they don't tell you about enlightenment
    #19176447 - 11/22/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The gurus don't tell you that you will still need to have a job and work long hours if you want to survive
They don't tell you that shitty stuff will still happen to you all the time
You will still experience loss, pain, humiliation and other negative emotions

You may not be able to change lifelong habits
The upside is that these things will only strengthen the love you have for yourself and others

Just my 2 cents


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: EternalCowabunga] * 1
    #19176523 - 11/22/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I think the attraction of enlightenment is a kind of total fulfillment, in the moment. A recognition of the Reality, which is the cosmic Self or God, by becoming that, and thus having a kind of timeless experience.

Recognising you are that for "which there is no which-er" takes fear and importance out of life.

You may still have to work a job, have emotional problems etc. but these do not affect what you actually are. They are not actually happening in a certain sense. They are events in time, your Self is not an event in time.


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My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
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Offlineeve69
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: circastes]
    #19177672 - 11/23/13 04:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

depends on your enlightenment


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: eve69]
    #19177783 - 11/23/13 05:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Just because you've reached enlightenment doesn't change that you are human


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Offlineeve69
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: Stromrider]
    #19177818 - 11/23/13 06:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I spent a lot of my life thinking in Eastern yoga terms and tantra and I still don't really have an idea of enlightenment, and I'm not being funny, a state beyond all others doesn't compute to me, like say you could have a rainbow body would you want to be the only person you know with one? I think not. Live forever? Talk about endless suffering unless you can turn your feelings off.  God please no I hope not!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: eve69]
    #19177832 - 11/23/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Most peoples concept of enlightenment is akin to believing in Santa and the Tooth fairy imo.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineeve69
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: Icelander]
    #19177842 - 11/23/13 06:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

we find that out here though don't we :wink:


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: Icelander]
    #19177844 - 11/23/13 06:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well, I think that's true for a lot of people. But if you have experienced satori that does count for something at least, the only question is whether that state is possible to achieve permanently.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: Grapefruit]
    #19177883 - 11/23/13 07:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've been there.  How can it be enlightenment if one doesn't know what it means?  And to know what it means one, imo, would have to reside there at will.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineeve69
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: Icelander]
    #19177910 - 11/23/13 07:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

you can known what enlightenment means but that's not enlightenment - the pointers are towards --keeping light-- like the Tibetan monk who told HHDL that he was always in danger of hating his torturers.  That sort of display of heart is enlightenment.  I have a friend who studies enlightened people (the broad subject itself)  -see here-  www.batgap.com


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Offlineabsols
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: eve69]
    #19177958 - 11/23/13 07:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I never knew what that word is for, but now I can guess right

so I think enlightenment is meaning seeing the sources of yourself condition, so what sees you as an object thing,
in logical fact, this should gives you power of being free and in knowing how your being work, when suppositely you see the sources because you reached their free identities, so they will get back while yourself condition will be differently alive from what your freedom would be a certainty when those sources are more then present then what you are, as objects sources including you

but it is not that logical fact at all, which prove how logics were all killed, and how darkness is the truth when darkness is sources ends

so being with life sources is hell, while because they are the sources without any logics, so those terms are all created as nothing randomly of free sources

enlightenment cannot be objective, so it is all a lie invented word

to say electrical white circuits forcing to enslave your freedom as being evil freedom that is never true only through powers of freedom knowledge

you could catch all kind of diseases more then any normal average body and risks encounters in real life according to your age and being in condition of everyone

it is much better to stay out of that and stop seeking enlightenment through meditations and stuff

anyway it is not even being with real sources, they are liars as freedom and use people to possess their true freedoms, and they don't care at all about any free present right, while it is all through what they programmed so dealing with you as if you are dead, not there at all

and it is never about you, it is always about using and abusing you
so the thought of being eternal that way is a lie to you, and you should know this, the real you is freedom alone, when it is through objective realisations of yourself being with else, but any other freedom around even if positive to you is never about you while it kills you as free, you cannot be you the free out of living, because freedom is the true positive, you can be you out of existing and existence truth 


Edited by absols (11/23/13 08:08 AM)


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: Grapefruit]
    #19177974 - 11/23/13 07:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
The gurus don't tell you that you will still need to have a job and work long hours if you want to survive
They don't tell you that shitty stuff will still happen to you all the time
You will still experience loss, pain, humiliation and other negative emotions

You may not be able to change lifelong habits
The upside is that these things will only strengthen the love you have for yourself and others

Just my 2 cents





Depends on which guru's you're listening to really, some of them like Buddha will say that life is suffering & everything is impermanent

How do you see it that habits can strengthen love for yourself & others? Just wondering as i find the opposite to be true

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
if you have experienced satori that does count for something at least, the only question is whether that state is possible to achieve permanently.




Quote:

Icelander said:
I've been there.  How can it be enlightenment if one doesn't know what it means?  And to know what it means one, imo, would have to reside there at will.




:thumbup: although i would use the term 'will' very lightly, if its true then it should be available to you all the time and you should be able to access it whenever you want, if its not true all the time then it isn't really true


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #19178194 - 11/23/13 09:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
The upside is that these things will only strengthen the love you have for yourself and others



Great post, Cowabunga, and great comments in this thread.

"Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water."

The day-to-day miseries of existence do not change, we are told.

Your hemorrhoids will still itch.  You will still bicker with your loved one.  You will witness the decay and death of people and things that are dear to you.

But you will be filled with an inner, ever-present tranquility that will observe the heartache, see it come, and see it go.

This ability to observe while remaining in the still-point is the highest achievable spiritual state, in my opinion.


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Offlineabsols
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: all this beauty]
    #19178335 - 11/23/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

what you are describing is submission

then peace is not an objective value, it is all about accepting the fact you are through even if it is hell and even if it is not about you or killing what you are to yourself

to me it is much more positive to react to negative and see it going then to be forced to not move to see it go a bit

what matter is freedom what the person is out of everything what it really means in negative situations

and if there is no positive to offer then it is not a positive concept of anything, then it is a lie
anything in truth is something objectively positive and not dependent on your presence nor yourself to say

if you die under tortures or survived tortures, the real fact is tortures and not you

the thing is all those terms invented to abuse ignorance and conscious out of negative all life fact, like the guy instead of becoming crazy or very stupid in life, they invent that to give guys kind of personality, and you guys buy it, oohh tranquility and depth ... how cant you realize that much more really around yourself being if that is the mean

but it is not, you feel supported like with powers of some sensations, this is absurd..as if you can live all your life through sensations of others powers on you, and it is up to you to keep faking that it is surely good since you don't have to move or anything to do yourself

you are not an animal because you know, as you are aware of being like existence is real, so reality is what matter and then there is you alone that must be independent by being real in its means
you cannot say it is good to keep living by sensations of others on your body, even the most stupid chick in the most pejorative sense wont accept that


Edited by absols (11/23/13 10:26 AM)


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InvisibleLibertin
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: absols]
    #19178449 - 11/23/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The concept of enlightenment is the thing that deters me most from Buddhism. I've really enjoyed reading about some Buddhist concepts but the idea that an individual can attain enlightenment seems literally incredible to me, i.e. NOT credible. Buddhists often say they meditate to achieve enlightenment. I ask you then, where are the enlightened monks? Has anyone since Gautama actually achieved Boddhisattva? Where's the evidence? It completely spoils Buddhism in my view.


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Offlineabsols
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: Libertin]
    #19178513 - 11/23/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

exactly,

like everyone like to point others as being the reason of feeling down or even sick ... but no medicine nor professional help ever showed curing anyone.. so what psychic of selves is source of anything when all that sciences couldn't ever show one case healed even if most superficial suffer case

it is a lie, that is why too the more one knows the more it doesn't know, because the truth of knowledge is dark, it is based on abuse and violations of freedom truth through lies in powers

because any freedom is nothing to another, because all is basically only freedom individualities, then it is easy to start by making things worse careless about the sense that could be to try to understand the fact we share all or at least support the idea but no


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: Libertin]
    #19178660 - 11/23/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Libertin said:
I ask you then, where are the enlightened monks? Has anyone since Gautama actually achieved Boddhisattva? Where's the evidence?



My guess is that the "enlightened monks" aren't talking about it.  That's why you don't know they're there.

If someone "announces" their enlightenment to you, they're probably deep deep into some heavy samsara shit.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: all this beauty]
    #19180295 - 11/23/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
The upside is that these things will only strengthen the love you have for yourself and others



Great post, Cowabunga, and great comments in this thread.

"Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water."

The day-to-day miseries of existence do not change, we are told.

Your hemorrhoids will still itch.  You will still bicker with your loved one.  You will witness the decay and death of people and things that are dear to you.

But you will be filled with an inner, ever-present tranquility that will observe the heartache, see it come, and see it go.

This ability to observe while remaining in the still-point is the highest achievable spiritual state, in my opinion.




:thumbup::thumbup:


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #19181813 - 11/24/13 09:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Still gotta chop wood and carry water


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"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisibleComcouveflor
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Re: What they don't tell you about enlightenment [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19182567 - 11/24/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There's a difference between chopping wood and carrying water and chopping wood and carrying water...


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