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Offlinewestthebest
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"soft" water?
    #19177415 - 11/23/13 01:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

so a week or so in to fruiting my first time and just learned that we have a water softener and that I have been using "soft" water with less minerals as opposed to the much harder water that is apparently in my area.  I have read that this is not good, and could explain a lot of the problems I am having...  my question is, how much does it actually matter, and what can I do about it other than disconnecting the water softener?  its the roommates thing and he doesn't want to.  do I have to buy certain water just for misting?  or does it matter with dunking, and hydrating substrates and such as well?


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Offlinesilverstem
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: westthebest]
    #19177421 - 11/23/13 01:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

idk if it even makes a difference but if your that worried about it just use bottled water...


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: silverstem]
    #19177429 - 11/23/13 01:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The water is not causing your problems....you could use tap water, rain water, well water, pond water, toilet water....just about anything except for distilled water.

Whatever water you use will get sterilized regardless..


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: silverstem]
    #19177433 - 11/23/13 01:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Both answers above are wrong.

Salt is toxic to mycelium. Disconnect your water softener.


--------------------

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19177436 - 11/23/13 01:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I honestly had no idea water softeners used salt....but now that I look it up you are right.....shows what I know lol......that's the big city mentality for ya....lol.


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19177438 - 11/23/13 01:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
The water is not causing your problems....you could use tap water, rain water, well water, pond water, toilet water....just about anything except for distilled water.

Whatever water you use will get sterilized regardless..



I believe distilled water is pretty much what I am talking about.  not worried about the sterility of the water...  found multiple threads where RR has talked about not using softened water but didn't find another solution than disconnecting the water softener...

edit: yes, thank you, but what can I do other than disconnecting the water softener?


Edited by westthebest (11/23/13 01:53 AM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: westthebest]
    #19177442 - 11/23/13 01:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:
but what can I do other than disconnecting the water softener?



Quote:

silverstem said:
use bottled water...




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Offlinesilverstem
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19177444 - 11/23/13 01:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If u can't disconnect your roommates water softener... Most water bottles dont get treated with salt.


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: silverstem]
    #19177457 - 11/23/13 01:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

silverstem said:
If u can't disconnect your roommates water softener... Most water bottles dont get treated with salt.



my bad, didn't even see that.  thank you very much

can I use soft water for dunking and such, and just use hard water misting? 


Edited by westthebest (11/23/13 02:02 AM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: westthebest]
    #19177468 - 11/23/13 02:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Use bottled water for everything....


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Offlinekratom_redmomd
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19177498 - 11/23/13 02:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:

Salt is toxic to mycelium. Disconnect your water softener.




You would'nt want to use the "softened" water for any part of your cultivation.  Use bottled, rain, pond water, the neighbors water.

:peace:


--------------------
"If the goal is to ride the bike, why is everyone arguing about which bike to ride?  We are all bike riders.  Ride your bike." -Unknown

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¿Hablas Inglés?




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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: kratom_redmomd]
    #19177507 - 11/23/13 02:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Knock knock....high neighbor can I dunk ten monos for a minute lol


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Offlinekratom_redmomd
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: cronicr]
    #19177516 - 11/23/13 02:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Lol!

Can I borrow a pot of water?  :smile:

THAT is funny!


--------------------
"If the goal is to ride the bike, why is everyone arguing about which bike to ride?  We are all bike riders.  Ride your bike." -Unknown

If I was going to destroy a nation,
first I would destroy its language. -Confusious
¿Hablas Inglés?




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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: kratom_redmomd]
    #19177606 - 11/23/13 03:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ah, that's a shame...  would love to try the neighbor idea sometime


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: westthebest]
    #19177734 - 11/23/13 04:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
The water is not causing your problems....you could use tap water, rain water, well water, pond water, toilet water....just about anything except for distilled water.

Whatever water you use will get sterilized regardless..



What's the difference in using rain water and distilled water?


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: Kizzle]
    #19177744 - 11/23/13 05:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Rain water has minerals in it.....distilled water is a solvent.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19177767 - 11/23/13 05:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

But it starts off as distilled water. I mean I can't see much difference between something getting rained on and something being sprayed with distilled water.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: Kizzle]
    #19177894 - 11/23/13 07:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Rain water is full of minerals. Humans do not distill water in a mineral rich atmosphere, the whole point is to purify it.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: krypto2000]
    #19178587 - 11/23/13 11:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Relatively little, mostly in the form mold spores and other undissolved crap. In terms of what it can dissolve it's probably pretty close to distilled water. Not that really matters I just don't see distilled water so unpreferable as to warn someone they can't use it.

OP, you never mentioned what the problems are you think it might be causing. It may have nothing to do with it.


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: Kizzle]
    #19178767 - 11/23/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've used distilled water for misting before.  There was no harm.
Hypothetically Deionized and distilled water can dissolve more salts and minerals but it's only a small amount.
I'm not sure where the fear of pure water comes from.  Of course, there's also really no benefit either.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: StygianKnight]
    #19179034 - 11/23/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think the fear is that it will cause minerals to be drawn out of the mycilium, but I don't know how much effect that would actually have, and even still it will be absorbed again pretty quickly anyhow. It's not like if a human drinks distilled water they're have a realistic increased risk of a mineral deficiency as a result and I don't see why it'd be any different with fungi.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: krypto2000]
    #19179047 - 11/23/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
It's not like if a human drinks distilled water they're have a realistic increased risk of a mineral deficiency





""The longer one drinks distilled water, the more likely the development of mineral deficiencies and an acid state. I have done well over 3000 mineral evaluations using a combination of blood, urine and hair tests in my practice. Almost without exception, people who consume distilled water exclusively, eventually develop multiple mineral deficiencies.""
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061030184718AAhcDOw

There are several other sources that confirm this as well...

Just google it.....


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Offlinetrivial
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: StygianKnight]
    #19179229 - 11/23/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

StygianKnight said:
I've used distilled water for misting before.  There was no harm.
Hypothetically Deionized and distilled water can dissolve more salts and minerals but it's only a small amount.
I'm not sure where the fear of pure water comes from.  Of course, there's also really no benefit either.




I use distilled water on the humidifiers. My hard water will destroy humidifiers in no time.. quite aggravating. At first I thought that was what this post would be about.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19179244 - 11/23/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
It's not like if a human drinks distilled water they're have a realistic increased risk of a mineral deficiency





""The longer one drinks distilled water, the more likely the development of mineral deficiencies and an acid state. I have done well over 3000 mineral evaluations using a combination of blood, urine and hair tests in my practice. Almost without exception, people who consume distilled water exclusively, eventually develop multiple mineral deficiencies.""
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061030184718AAhcDOw

There are several other sources that confirm this as well...

Just google it.....




I'm still skeptical, ground water is already saturated with CO2, I really doubt distilled water has *more* CO2 in it than any other water source. I also cannot see it depleting your body of minerals unless you're eating literally just enough to get by. The ph of distilled water is 7, if it 'rapidly absorbed CO2' and became acidic, well.. why wouldn't there be a ph shift? I need something more than yahoo answers.


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19179256 - 11/23/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
There are several other sources that confirm this as well...
Just google it.....



Googled it and... not really. 
They are often just the same article by "Zoltan P. Rona MD MSc" repeated over and over.  Zoltan has never published any actual journal articles to support his claim, but does have multiple books you can buy on amazon.
He also makes inaccurate statements, acidity doesn't work this way, "Distilled water is an active absorber and when it comes into contact with air, it absorbs carbon dioxide, making it acidic. The more distilled water a person drinks, the higher the body acidity becomes."

Ultimately the danger of drinking distilled water is the same as regular water.

A site skeptical of Distilled water pros and cons,
http://www.cyber-nook.com/water/distilledwater.htm


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19179484 - 11/23/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I think the fear is that it will cause minerals to be drawn out of the mycilium, but I don't know how much effect that would actually have



Doesn't happen. The ions they're talking about can't pass through cell walls they require active transport. The only thing the water could dissolve is things outside the cell like waste products.

I could find nothing of use on EPA or FDA sites but did find this this
Quote:

Packaged waters with very low mineral content, such as distilled or demineralized
waters, are also consumed. Rainwater, which is similarly low in minerals, is consumed
by some populations without apparent adverse health effects. There is insufficient
scientific information on the benefits or hazards of regularly consuming these types
of bottled waters




Quote:

He also makes inaccurate statements, acidity doesn't work this way, "Distilled water is an active absorber and when it comes into contact with air, it absorbs carbon dioxide, making it acidic. The more distilled water a person drinks, the higher the body acidity becomes."



It's so ridiculous when you think about it. Our bodies produce far more CO2 that you'd be ingesting.


--------------------


Edited by Kizzle (11/23/13 04:17 PM)


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: Kizzle]
    #19185020 - 11/24/13 11:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My opinion on distilled water:

If there is no apparent benefit indicated, there is no reason to risk an unknown/highly debated risk factor :shrug:

As for mushrooms, I use distilled water in my ultrasonic. Everything else is from the tap and I've never had a problem, nor heard of a problem with tap water that was corrected by using bottled water in its place.


--------------------

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You should take a look. :hehehe:


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: krypto2000]
    #19185174 - 11/25/13 12:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Rain water is full of minerals.






what are you talking about


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19185338 - 11/25/13 02:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:


Salt is toxic to mycelium. Disconnect your water softener.




The salt in 'water softeners' is toxic to people and animals too, not just mycelium.  Don't use or drink it.  Crap, it's not even good for showering because you can't rinse the soap off.

Also, never use distilled.  You can use bottled spring water, or go to a creek or lake and dip some out.
RR


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19185549 - 11/25/13 06:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What does a chart of atmospheric gases have to do with the mineral content of rain water? What are you talking about? I did do some more research though and the hardness of your rainwater depends upon where you live, the climate, and pollution, so your rain water may well be soft, mine however is almost always hard. If I have towels on the line and they get wet they'l dry really stiff from all of the minerals and I'll have to rewash them, the water has a very noticable taste if collected, etc. When it's distilled by the sun of course it's initially pure, but there's all kinds of dust and debri in the atmosphere that it will collect when falling down.


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OfflineMasonic
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: krypto2000]
    #19186112 - 11/25/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you are using a well for your water source, there is most likely going to be a hose connection before the softener. You could get your water from there. Also, most softeners have a bypass mode which you can use to disable with out your roommates knowledge .


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19186139 - 11/25/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
My opinion on distilled water:

If there is no apparent benefit indicated, there is no reason to risk an unknown/highly debated risk factor :shrug:

As for mushrooms, I use distilled water in my ultrasonic. Everything else is from the tap and I've never had a problem, nor heard of a problem with tap water that was corrected by using bottled water in its place.



That's pretty much my opinion as well. I mean who's going to used to distilled water for their mushrooms anyway unless they're incorrectly thinking something is wrong with using tap water and no doubt the additional minerals in tap and some bottles water are beneficial. But when Nota mentioned the rain thing it occurred to me there's really not that much difference in rain water (before it flows on the ground and aborbs more minerals from that) and distilled water. They're both very low in minerals.

I also believe chlorinated tap water has a beneficial effect against bacterial blotching.

Water softening is not something I've had to deal with before.


--------------------


Edited by Kizzle (11/25/13 10:00 AM)


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Invisibled0urd3n
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Re: "soft" water? [Re: Kizzle]
    #19246641 - 12/08/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I just thought I'd let you guys know in case anyone was interested that I used it for my brf cakes and they colonized fine and are pinning. I won't however be dunking them in it now that I know this. Perhaps I just don't use a ton of salt compared to some people? Anways my cakes are quite healthy. :shrug:


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