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245willow19

Registered: 06/14/10
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Humans and slaves
#19176888 - 11/22/13 11:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Aren't we humans the zenith of the bio pyramid? We have our own slave labour classes that live only to feed us: chickens, cows, pigs, horses, etc. People say animals are mindless and even incomptent but if you look just a century ago, the world saw primitive people the exact same way a civilized man would look upon a dumb animal such as a donkey. Maybe one day cows will revolt and conquer the world and enslave the entire human race as revenge! What do you think? Also I hear an octopus can be quite intelligent and given some time it could evolve into something greater than humans...whatever that is what some professor said lol
Edited by 245willow19 (11/22/13 11:11 PM)
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NWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
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I think that most animals are a few millions years away from evolving our level of intelligence, by which time we will be, ostensibly, more intelligent as well.
we're running a race and we were given a ridiculous head start
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: NWlight]
#19176962 - 11/22/13 11:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think most animals are light years away from devolving into humans.
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RiderOnTheStorm
Reject thug culture



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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: NWlight] 4
#19176964 - 11/22/13 11:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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In the year 2,341,016 AD the Global Association of Bovine Advancement (GABA) will become the first nonhuman species to file a lawsuit against humanity, seeking reparations for millenia of abuse, humiliation, and mass murder. The leaders of the Global American Empire will in turn conspire against the cows, and on a cold day in February they publicly butcher and grill Dr. Tyson Cargill, the leader of GABA, enjoying their marbled steaks as Globalmerica watches in applause.
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Hobozen


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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Quote:
Esekon Kelly said: if you look just a century ago, the world saw primitive people the exact same way a civilized man would look upon a dumb animal such as a donkey.
A century ago, people didn't have Google. We now have Google, so every answer to every question is right at our fingertips. Any human with a computer or smartphone is a god.
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Hobozen


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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177056 - 11/23/13 12:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah but we're programmed to be cows
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Enlil
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Hobozen]
#19177057 - 11/23/13 12:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Exactly...and cows are considered gods to some people.
You really need to keep up here.
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Hobozen


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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177077 - 11/23/13 12:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sophistic Radiance
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Quote:
Esekon Kelly said: Aren't we humans the zenith of the bio pyramid? We have our own slave labour classes that live only to feed us: chickens, cows, pigs, horses, etc. People say animals are mindless and even incomptent but if you look just a century ago, the world saw primitive people the exact same way a civilized man would look upon a dumb animal such as a donkey.
What civilized man would class another man, with the power to speak his mind and his feelings, with a dumb beast? For that matter, much of the "civilized" world continues to do just that even today.
Quote:
Maybe one day cows will revolt and conquer the world and enslave the entire human race as revenge! What do you think? Also I hear an octopus can be quite intelligent and given some time it could evolve into something greater than humans...whatever that is what some professor said lol
Dolphins and whales are already smarter than humans. Industrial development is not a benchmark for intelligence or success, it's only a measure of regression. Our brains have been shrinking ever since cro-magnon, FYI.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177097 - 11/23/13 12:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Beef is power!
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: LordSenate] 1
#19177125 - 11/23/13 12:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's true. I'm making shredded beef tacos tomorrow to increase my overall power.
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LordSenate
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177148 - 11/23/13 12:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Shit! I knew I was forgetting something. I've been wanting tacos but every time I remember I want them I forget a minute later.
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: NWlight]
#19177186 - 11/23/13 12:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
NWlight said: I think that most animals are a few millions years away from evolving our level of intelligence, by which time we will be, ostensibly, more intelligent as well.
we're running a race and we were given a ridiculous head start
Evolution doesn't guarantee we're going to get smarter. If stupid people make more babies (and they do) then intelligence is an evolutionary disadvantage for humanity.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Sophistic Radiance
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Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:
NWlight said: I think that most animals are a few millions years away from evolving our level of intelligence, by which time we will be, ostensibly, more intelligent as well.
we're running a race and we were given a ridiculous head start
Evolution doesn't guarantee we're going to get smarter. If stupid people make more babies (and they do) then intelligence is an evolutionary disadvantage for humanity.
IMO this is a completely fair and accurate description of the current predicament. Ten thousand years of technological development has been slowly de-emphasizing the necessity of intelligence for human survival. It's on the record that our brains are shrinking.
The greeks knew 2500 years ago that the Earth was round, well enough to accurately calculate its size. A lot of people today figure it was impossible to know that sort of thing before technology made it possible to see pictures taken from orbit.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


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I personally don't think smart people make smart babies or stupid people make stupid babies..
But, I know little to nothing about human genetics.
But yeah, they could triangulate the stars and everything and all sorts of shit... its crazy
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: LordSenate] 1
#19177279 - 11/23/13 01:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whether it's genetics or upbringing is somewhat irrelevant to the fact that quick thinking and elaborate cognitive schema are being rendered obsolete by the comfort of a world that increasingly conforms to human needs. Imagine the mental processes of a fully-developed modern human who lived successfuly with none of the ready-made provisions that even the most deprived modern people take for granted. Be the cause for shrinkage genetic or developmental, it's a fact that early modern humans had larger cranial capacity than we do.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Enlil
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It's a non-issue though. Humans are only going to enjoy this level of technological assistance for a short period of time before a good portion of it goes away.
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LordSenate
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It's not irrelevant if I was responding to someone that said "if stupid people keep making babies"
If you actually read my post I said nothing else besides not believing that didn't make much of a difference.
Your entire post is irrelevant to what I said.
Edit: It would help if I selected the right person in my reply.. my bad
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177325 - 11/23/13 01:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LordSenate said: It's not irrelevant if I was responding to someone that said "if stupid people keep making babies"
If you actually read my post I said nothing else besides not believing that didn't make much of a difference.
Your entire post is irrelevant to what I said.
Edit: It would help if I selected the right person in my reply.. my bad
I'm in the mood for verbosity, my bad. And yeah I was just about to dress you down for that when your edit showed up in the quoted text. 
Quote:
Enlil said: It's a non-issue though. Humans are only going to enjoy this level of technological assistance for a short period of time before a good portion of it goes away.
How do you figure?
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245willow19

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The only reason stupid people would make stupid babies is either by birth defects which would render the child mentally handicap or a poor upbringing and lack of education...otherwise your agrument is complete nonsense no matter how you try and put i
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LordSenate
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Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to say.. What's your point?
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Enlil
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The technology we have today is all brought to you by the glorious gift of oil and other fossil fuels. They will deplete.
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TheFakeSunRa
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Quote:
Whether it's genetics or upbringing is somewhat irrelevant
I'm going to take you out of context a bit and argue it does matter. If the ability to develop intelligence dissolves due to lower functioning brains having a genetic advantage due to the willingness to reproduce necessity being the mother invention will become irrelevant. Mankind will no longer be able to think its way out of problems like disintegrating nuclear reactors, for example.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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LordSenate
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I don't mind.. I tend to miss little things here and there that would make a huge difference in my responses, it gets worse as it gets closer to bed time.
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245willow19

Registered: 06/14/10
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Quote:
LordSenate said: Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to say.. What's your point?
It's just you made it sound as if someone inherits stupidity from their forebears which is often untrue
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Mush4Brains
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I wish I had a slave.
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LordSenate
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Yeah but a lower functioning brain doesn't necessarily correlate to intelligence. Considering there is a billion different things that can change how the brain functions.
Not to mention that quite a few things in genetics is seemingly random.. Stupid person + Other stupid person making a baby doesn't mean that baby will = stupid.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


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I, for one, will welcome our bovine overlords.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: I wish I had a slave.
Is that why you hate republicans so much? Because they freed the slaves?
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



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Quote:
Esekon Kelly said: The only reason stupid people would make stupid babies is either bya irth defects or poor upbringing and lack of education...otherwise your agrument is complete nonsense no matter how you try and put it
I find it hard to imagine that the performance of an organ as complex as the brain would be completely unaffected by genetic variation. If intelligence is seen in terms of neuroplasticity, of the brain's capacity to quickly adapt to changes in circumstance, genetics would be more important than upbringing. But if it's in terms of knowing your ABC's, then sure, I concede your point.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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LordSenate
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Quote:
Esekon Kelly said:
Quote:
LordSenate said: Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to say.. What's your point?
It's just you made it sound as if someone inherits stupidity from their forebears which is often untrue
I was responding to this. I was trying to say exactly what you said. I guess I didn't do a good enough job.
Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said: Evolution doesn't guarantee we're going to get smarter. If stupid people make more babies (and they do) then intelligence is an evolutionary disadvantage for humanity.
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil] 1
#19177352 - 11/23/13 01:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The technology we have today is all brought to you by the glorious gift of oil and other fossil fuels. They will deplete.
That's dead on. And despite what people want to pretend, there's no energy source that we're anywhere close to harvesting that can replace fossil fuels. The assumptions that we're just going to pull something out of our asses is wishful thinking. No oil equals unprecedented human death. Unavoidable.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177355 - 11/23/13 01:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The technology we have today is all brought to you by the glorious gift of oil and other fossil fuels. They will deplete.
You think the terrestrial gravy train will come to a halt before we start mining hydrocarbons from asteroids? AFAIK the global garbage fire of Earth's petroleum alone has only begun.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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LordSenate
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Exactly, that is mainly what I've noticed about our genetics.. Certainly the mother and father play a part in a new born's intelligence or lack thereof. But it's not always the same and is influenced by a ton of other factors, and like I said some seeming to be complete happenstance.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil] 1
#19177359 - 11/23/13 01:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Mush4Brains said: I wish I had a slave.
Is that why you hate republicans so much? Because they freed the slaves?
If you think that "Republican" meant the same thing in the 1860's as it does today, well, I'm not sure why you act like you can debate politics.
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LordSenate
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Yeah..Real intelligent to assume that we are nowhere near being able to use any alternative fuel.
It's not like we've ever had someone come along in one lifetime and completely change the way the world functions or anything.
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Enlil
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I think the species will be extinct long before we ever mine an asteroid. And there is every indication that we have reached peak oil or will reach peak oil within the next decade or two. The party's gonna wind down sooner than later.
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TheFakeSunRa
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Quote:
Esekon Kelly said: The only reason stupid people would make stupid babies is either by birth defects which would render the child mentally handicap or a poor upbringing and lack of education...otherwise your agrument is complete nonsense no matter how you try and put i
Quality education and good upbringing doesn't alter DNA encoding.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Sophistic Radiance
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It's not just fuel, it's materials. You'd be surprised at how much of what you eat, drink, and own was made at least in part from oil.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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KrishnaDreamer
I bleed nicotine...

Registered: 09/23/07
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Pretty sure we're close to discovering cellulosic ethanol and algae derived biodiesel.
Pretty much equivalent to gasoline and regular diesel.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil] 1
#19177376 - 11/23/13 01:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I think the species will be extinct long before we ever mine an asteroid. And there is every indication that we have reached peak oil or will reach peak oil within the next decade or two. The party's gonna wind down sooner than later.
Oh yes, Homo sapiens sapiens will be long gone before we ever mine an asteroid. Our hominid descendents, however, will be alive and kicking.
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245willow19

Registered: 06/14/10
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
Esekon Kelly said: The only reason stupid people would make stupid babies is either bya irth defects or poor upbringing and lack of education...otherwise your agrument is complete nonsense no matter how you try and put it
I find it hard to imagine that the performance of an organ as complex as the brain would be completely unaffected by genetic variation. If intelligence is seen in terms of neuroplasticity, of the brain's capacity to quickly adapt to changes in circumstance, genetics would be more important than upbringing. But if it's in terms of knowing your ABC's, then sure, I concede your point.
So you believe a child raised in the ghetto and told silly things like, "You gon die tomorrow if you don't bark like a dog" or "The white man is keeping us down, we're different, we're don't need no white man's education, stay true and pure to your kind."...are you telling me this wouldn't have a significant affect on a child in any sort of way? Sure, some may not heed what their elders say and advise, but not all...you'll always get those mindless fools who like to follow and mimic others...the performing dogs of society...monkey see, monkey do . Upbringing plays an important role in education and intelligent...there's no doubt about it.
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Enlil
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Quote:
LordSenate said: Yeah..Real intelligent to assume that we are nowhere near being able to use any alternative fuel.
It's not an assumption though. We've got nothing even close to being able to replace fossil fuel.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177381 - 11/23/13 01:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: It's not an assumption though. We've got nothing even close to being able to replace fossil fuel.
Fossil fuels are #1 of course, but to say we have "nothing even close" to fossil fuels is disingenuous at best.
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LordSenate
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That's not what I was trying to say. There is absolutely nothing that is concrete in this world. Just because me or you, or anyone else on this planet have no alternatives to the way things are, doesn't necessarily mean someone else won't be able to find any.
At points all through history there are things that people never thought possible, and yet someone came along and changed that AND the world completely. We have limited knowledge of this planet, let alone the universe. For all we know we will create a stargate to another planet that has everything we need..
Obviously I'm being a little excessive but it should make what I'm trying to say more readily apparent.
I'm not a dreamer and I'm not that intelligent, but I know that amazing things happen all the time, thing's we never could imagine. Anything is possible. I'm not confident that it will happen, but that doesn't mean that it won't.
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Enlil
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: Oh yes, Homo sapiens sapiens will be long gone before we ever mine an asteroid. Our hominid descendents, however, will be alive and kicking.
Unlikely that any species on this planet will ever mine an asteroid. We hit the lottery with fossil fuel because we got to enjoy the stored solar energy from millions of years of the earth being heated by the sun. We're going to burn through that in a matter of few hundred years, and that'll be that. The next species won't have those lottery winnings to work with. I doubt they'll be able to get to an asteroid before an asteroid (or other mass extinction event) wipes them all out.
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TheFakeSunRa
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Quote:
LordSenate said: Yeah..Real intelligent to assume that we are nowhere near being able to use any alternative fuel.
It's not like we've ever had someone come along in one lifetime and completely change the way the world functions or anything. 
Time will tell. Right now we're well aware of the damage fossil fuels are doing to the environment but the alternative remains nowhere to be found. It's there because energy is in everything but we'll be lucky to avoid extinction during the transition. Scoff all you want.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Enlil
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: Fossil fuels are #1 of course, but to say we have "nothing even close" to fossil fuels is disingenuous at best.
What do we have that is close to being able to replace fossil fuels? I'm all eyes.
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NWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:
NWlight said: I think that most animals are a few millions years away from evolving our level of intelligence, by which time we will be, ostensibly, more intelligent as well.
we're running a race and we were given a ridiculous head start
Evolution doesn't guarantee we're going to get smarter. If stupid people make more babies (and they do) then intelligence is an evolutionary disadvantage for humanity.
IMO this is a completely fair and accurate description of the current predicament. Ten thousand years of technological development has been slowly de-emphasizing the necessity of intelligence for human survival. It's on the record that our brains are shrinking.
The greeks knew 2500 years ago that the Earth was round, well enough to accurately calculate its size. A lot of people today figure it was impossible to know that sort of thing before technology made it possible to see pictures taken from orbit.
despite the seeming lack of importance of intelligence, what is most important is how smart the smartest people are.
For example, it is now common for high school physics students to learn things which were groundbreaking only a few hundred years ago.
I think as a whole we are still making a ton of progress, exponentially too
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245willow19

Registered: 06/14/10
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Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:
Esekon Kelly said: The only reason stupid people would make stupid babies is either by birth defects which would render the child mentally handicap or a poor upbringing and lack of education...otherwise your agrument is complete nonsense no matter how you try and put i
Quality education and good upbringing doesn't alter DNA encoding.
When did I say that...of course, it doesn't, any sane and sound minded simian ape knows that . I was talking about the level of intelligence which can be impaired by an unfortunate and troublesome childhood, not always, but generally speaking, those with severe hardship in their life tend to either do exceptionally well in academics or fall to the lowest category in society and become scum of the scum. When talking about IQ or intelligence, it's very fluid, where does it start and where does it end? Would you deem a bushman intelligence compaired to a physicians or biologist?
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177398 - 11/23/13 01:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
LordSenate said: Yeah..Real intelligent to assume that we are nowhere near being able to use any alternative fuel.
It's not an assumption though. We've got nothing even close to being able to replace fossil fuel.
It IS an assumption. You are right in that we aren't close to anything that could replace it. But it is still an assumption that there won't be something that makes itself immediately readily available.
If you can't look through history and the way things are, and all the different things that have happened over time as well as things that happened almost instantly and see what I'm saying that I don't know what to tell you.
I know it sounds cheesy when someone says anything is possible.. but really its true.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177402 - 11/23/13 01:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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To each their own. Our sun puts out such intensity of energy on a minute by minute basis that if we could even harvest a fraction of it, we could replace fossil fuels.
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Enlil said:
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Mush4Brains said: Fossil fuels are #1 of course, but to say we have "nothing even close" to fossil fuels is disingenuous at best.
What do we have that is close to being able to replace fossil fuels? I'm all eyes.
I guess it all depends on what you consider "close."
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Quote:
Esekon Kelly said:
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BlindSophist said:
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Esekon Kelly said: The only reason stupid people would make stupid babies is either bya irth defects or poor upbringing and lack of education...otherwise your agrument is complete nonsense no matter how you try and put it
I find it hard to imagine that the performance of an organ as complex as the brain would be completely unaffected by genetic variation. If intelligence is seen in terms of neuroplasticity, of the brain's capacity to quickly adapt to changes in circumstance, genetics would be more important than upbringing. But if it's in terms of knowing your ABC's, then sure, I concede your point.
So you believe a child raised in the ghetto and told silly things like, "You gon die tomorrow if you don't bark like a dog" or "The white man is keeping us down, we're different, we're don't need no white man's education, stay true and pure to your kind."...are you telling me this wouldn't have a significant affect on a child in any sort of way? Sure, some may not heed what their elders say and advise, but not all...you'll always get those mindless fools who like to follow and mimic others...the performing dogs of society...monkey see, monkey do . Upbringing plays an important role in education and intelligent...there's no doubt about it.
Again, it depends on how you define intelligence. My first definition makes no comment on the scenario you describe. As organisms shaped by natural selection, the only thing we can count on our biology for is survival, and quite often that has nothing to do with social or economic advancement. When the world goes to hell, we'll really see who's got the brains and who's been faking it.
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245willow19

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Quote:
It's not an assumption though. We've got nothing even close to being able to replace fossil fuel.
Didn't the Nazis use beak nosed semitic carcasses consisting of men, women and children to fuel their trains and enormous furnaces. I've heard a single corpse of a person of semitic descent can burn for at least eight weeks, it's better than any fossil fuel and the rough meat can feed a family of ten
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Enlil
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said:
I guess it all depends on what you consider "close."
I'll make it easy. What do we have that can replace 50% of OIL CONSUMPTION?
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LordSenate
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Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said:
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LordSenate said: Yeah..Real intelligent to assume that we are nowhere near being able to use any alternative fuel.
It's not like we've ever had someone come along in one lifetime and completely change the way the world functions or anything. 
Time will tell. Right now we're well aware of the damage fossil fuels are doing to the environment but the alternative remains nowhere to be found. It's there because energy is in everything but we'll be lucky to avoid extinction during the transition. Scoff all you want.
Nowhere did I say that it was a forgone conclusion. I made it readily apparent my lack of confidence in it happening. But that is a far cry from saying we're far from finding anything to use as a replacement.
My point is one person could come in our lifetime and change the way we think about anything instantly. From what we eat, to what we drive, to what we use for fuel... ANYTHING.
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245willow19

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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
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Esekon Kelly said:
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BlindSophist said:
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Esekon Kelly said: The only reason stupid people would make stupid babies is either bya irth defects or poor upbringing and lack of education...otherwise your agrument is complete nonsense no matter how you try and put it
I find it hard to imagine that the performance of an organ as complex as the brain would be completely unaffected by genetic variation. If intelligence is seen in terms of neuroplasticity, of the brain's capacity to quickly adapt to changes in circumstance, genetics would be more important than upbringing. But if it's in terms of knowing your ABC's, then sure, I concede your point.
So you believe a child raised in the ghetto and told silly things like, "You gon die tomorrow if you don't bark like a dog" or "The white man is keeping us down, we're different, we're don't need no white man's education, stay true and pure to your kind."...are you telling me this wouldn't have a significant affect on a child in any sort of way? Sure, some may not heed what their elders say and advise, but not all...you'll always get those mindless fools who like to follow and mimic others...the performing dogs of society...monkey see, monkey do . Upbringing plays an important role in education and intelligent...there's no doubt about it.
Again, it depends on how you define intelligence. My first definition makes no comment on the scenario you describe. As organisms shaped by natural selection, the only thing we can count on our biology for is survival, and quite often that has nothing to do with social or economic advancement. When the world goes to hell, we'll really see who's got the brains and who's been faking it.
Well said
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177414 - 11/23/13 01:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You aren't making it easy, at all. Saying what do we have now that would replace 50% oil consumption doesn't change anything. You can use it as an indicator of the likelihood that we will find a replacement, but making it seem like its nearly impossible is horse shit.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177417 - 11/23/13 01:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Enlil said:
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Mush4Brains said:
I guess it all depends on what you consider "close."
I'll make it easy. What do we have that can replace 50% of OIL CONSUMPTION?
I believe nuclear fusion is attainable at some point in the future, or that we can harvest enough energy from the sun (either terrestrially or extra-terrestrially) to make up a large percentage of what would be lost from fossil fuels. Besides that, current nuclear technology, and future wind, hydro, along better storage devices could pick up some of the slack.
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: LordSenate] 1
#19177418 - 11/23/13 01:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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LordSenate said: My point is one person could come in our lifetime and change the way we think about anything instantly. From what we eat, to what we drive, to what we use for fuel... ANYTHING.
I think that is incredibly naïve. We don't live in a time where a man, acting alone, can suddenly rethink the whole paradigm. 100 years ago that was possible because technology was in its infancy. Today, just to get started, you have to learn what people have been developing over the last 100 year so that you can use that as a starting point. It's highly unlikely that you'll have another Edison or Tesla inventing at the grass-roots level and creating some brand new technology that saves the world.
That's just not the world we live in anymore.
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177424 - 11/23/13 01:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm sure people couldn't imagine that a weapon would be created that would level entire cities... But someone came along and made it happen, in one lifetime.
There are multiple examples of things like this happening throughout history.. Why would you think fuel or anything else for that matter is excluded from them?
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Enlil
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: I believe nuclear fusion is attainable at some point in the future, or that we can harvest enough energy from the sun (either terrestrially or extra-terrestrially) to make up a large percentage of what would be lost from fossil fuels. Besides that, current nuclear technology, and future wind, hydro, along better storage devices could pick up some of the slack.
That's a lot of new technologies to develop. In terms of storage alone, batteries would have to advance 100 times more than they have over the last 50 years.
Like I said, we're not even close. I think it was disingenuous for you to call my statement disingenuous.
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: NWlight]
#19177430 - 11/23/13 01:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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NWlight said:
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BlindSophist said:
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TheFakeSunRa said:
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NWlight said: I think that most animals are a few millions years away from evolving our level of intelligence, by which time we will be, ostensibly, more intelligent as well.
we're running a race and we were given a ridiculous head start
Evolution doesn't guarantee we're going to get smarter. If stupid people make more babies (and they do) then intelligence is an evolutionary disadvantage for humanity.
IMO this is a completely fair and accurate description of the current predicament. Ten thousand years of technological development has been slowly de-emphasizing the necessity of intelligence for human survival. It's on the record that our brains are shrinking.
The greeks knew 2500 years ago that the Earth was round, well enough to accurately calculate its size. A lot of people today figure it was impossible to know that sort of thing before technology made it possible to see pictures taken from orbit.
despite the seeming lack of importance of intelligence, what is most important is how smart the smartest people are.
For example, it is now common for high school physics students to learn things which were groundbreaking only a few hundred years ago.
I think as a whole we are still making a ton of progress, exponentially too
Good point. But when there are billions of idiots thousands of geniuses won't even be able to save themselves.
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: LordSenate] 1
#19177434 - 11/23/13 01:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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LordSenate said:
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Enlil said:
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LordSenate said: Yeah..Real intelligent to assume that we are nowhere near being able to use any alternative fuel.
It's not an assumption though. We've got nothing even close to being able to replace fossil fuel.
It IS an assumption. You are right in that we aren't close to anything that could replace it. But it is still an assumption that there won't be something that makes itself immediately readily available.
If you can't look through history and the way things are, and all the different things that have happened over time as well as things that happened almost instantly and see what I'm saying that I don't know what to tell you.
I know it sounds cheesy when someone says anything is possible.. but really its true.
Honestly I can't see anything replacing oil. The problem with a lot of alternative fuel sources is that they're mainly for show, they require oil to manufacture. Most "green" or "sustainable" fuels have been an epic bust: they're only sustainable IF an alternative energy source as good as or better than oil is discovered.
I've always been big on the idea of giant orbiting solar batteries, but that's not talked about much in serious circles from what I can tell. But it would really be the only way to bypass the bottleneck in energy availability without actually harvesting asteroids, which I think is much more likely-- we're already set up to burn oil and there is a lot of it within the solar system. The technology and resources exist, but the motivation hasn't hit anybody yet. I'm pretty sure it will be tapped before catastrophic shortages occur, and we'll just keep burning it until we can't think of a reason to live anymore.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (11/23/13 01:56 AM)
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Enlil
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Quote:
LordSenate said: I'm sure people couldn't imagine that a weapon would be created that would level entire cities... But someone came along and made it happen, in one lifetime.
There are multiple examples of things like this happening throughout history.. Why would you think fuel or anything else for that matter is excluded from them?
Of course it's possible. It's unlikely, though. All of the inventions of this century and the last have been paid for by fossil fuel. Humans didn't invent fossil fuel, and it's unlikely we're going to invent something that can give us what fossil fuel gives us.
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LordSenate
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177440 - 11/23/13 01:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is no such thing as not being in "the world we live in anymore". The world is constantly changing, always, it is never the same. It makes no difference if things have been stagnant for a while since an explosion in technology.
It's not naive to think that it's possible that someone could come along and solve problems that we thought impossible. Thinking anything is impossible is extremely ignorant. Thinking something nearly impossible is just the same.
I'm certainly not saying that it is highly likely, but neither am I going to say it is highly unlikely. Neither you, me nor anyone else can say that with any definitive answer.
It's like I said, anything is possible and thinking otherwise is extremely ignorant.
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LordSenate
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177443 - 11/23/13 01:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm just saying that its not very unlikely either. I'm neither saying its likely or unlikely.. More like saying its a little bit to the unlikely but more towards the middle.
I'm just not comfortable making any guarantees, about ANYTHING in this world. I think it would be extremely foolish to do so.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177445 - 11/23/13 01:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That's a lot of new technologies to develop. In terms of storage alone, batteries would have to advance 100 times more than they have over the last 50 years.
Like I said, we're not even close. I think it was disingenuous for you to call my statement disingenuous.
Yeah, and you claim there is no Edison or Tesla or Einstein in today's age. There is still a fuck ton of technology to think of, and we have more geniuses on the planet that we know what to do with. People say without Einstein, we would have have had his work (about relativity) in another 50-70 years, but he came up with it at a ridiculously early time.
The next Einstein could be in India, China, Germany, US, or come from bumfuck nowhere on the global map. It took modern humans around 5000 years to go from Stonehedge to landing on the fucking moon.
This shit doesn't happen overnight, and as long as people are serious about dampening accelerating climate change, I think we, as a species, have the capacity to come up with some of this stuff. As long as we don't self annihilate, we'll be good.
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245willow19

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Aren't German Jews the smartest people in the world...let us enslave a few and force them to invent needed things such as a teleport device or a hovering car
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Enlil
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: LordSenate] 1
#19177449 - 11/23/13 01:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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LordSenate said: It's like I said, anything is possible and thinking otherwise is extremely ignorant.
I think that saying "anything is possible" is probably the most ignorant and naïve thing someone could ever say. There are plenty of things that are simply not possible. I can 100% guarantee you that a dragon isn't going to burn the white house down with it's fire breath tonight..
For you to believe that it's possible is beyond naïve.
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Killing Jews... bad idea.
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LordSenate
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Yeah, I agree. I don't see anything replacing it either. But I've not seen things in the past that I would never have imagined possible. That's why I'm not comfortable saying that something isn't going to happen because it seems impossible.
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177453 - 11/23/13 01:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
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LordSenate said: It's like I said, anything is possible and thinking otherwise is extremely ignorant.
I think that saying "anything is possible" is probably the most ignorant and naïve thing someone could ever say. There are plenty of things that are simply not possible. I can 100% guarantee you that a dragon isn't going to burn the white house down with it's fire breath tonight..
For you to believe that it's possible is beyond naïve.
I'll dream it, it will seem totally real and I'll remember you saying this and think "Whoa, Enlil was totally off base on that one!"
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177454 - 11/23/13 01:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
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LordSenate said: It's like I said, anything is possible and thinking otherwise is extremely ignorant.
I think that saying "anything is possible" is probably the most ignorant and naïve thing someone could ever say. There are plenty of things that are simply not possible. I can 100% guarantee you that a dragon isn't going to burn the white house down with it's fire breath tonight..
For you to believe that it's possible is beyond naïve.
You could probably say that with 100% confidence that in the next million years something like that won't exist, but that isn't how evolution works, dude. All you need is reptile/bird that burps up a flammable gas then snaps their teeth and bam, you have a dragon.
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Enlil
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if the dream brings you some visual thrill, then I hope you do.
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Enlil
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: You could probably say that with 100% confidence that in the next million years something like that won't exist, but that isn't how evolution works, dude. All you need is reptile/bird that burps up a flammable gas then snaps their teeth and bam, you have a dragon.
How is that relevant to anything I said, holmes? Was the word "tonight" unclear?
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LordSenate
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177461 - 11/23/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah..because we know for certain out of the thousands of galaxies that there aren't any dragons.. and we can safely say that it is impossible that they won't come here.
Yeah, that's not ignorant or anything.
I'm not going to write in a book that dragons are coming to rain fire on us from above.. But I'm not going to fucking say that I can safely say they won't..
There is a huge difference between saying that more then likely will never happen and saying that it is impossible.
I'm happy for you that you have such a large understanding of the way the entire universe works, outside of our little world. As well as the power to predict the things that will never happen therefore being able to label them as impossible.
I wish I had that power, but I don't.
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LordSenate
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
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LordSenate said: It's like I said, anything is possible and thinking otherwise is extremely ignorant.
I think that saying "anything is possible" is probably the most ignorant and naïve thing someone could ever say. There are plenty of things that are simply not possible. I can 100% guarantee you that a dragon isn't going to burn the white house down with it's fire breath tonight..
For you to believe that it's possible is beyond naïve.
You could probably say that with 100% confidence that in the next million years something like that won't exist, but that isn't how evolution works, dude. All you need is reptile/bird that burps up a flammable gas then snaps their teeth and bam, you have a dragon.
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Enlil
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You're still young. You'll develop it over time.
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LordSenate
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177467 - 11/23/13 02:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Even through everything I've said the worst part is I believe you in that.
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Enlil
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: LordSenate] 1
#19177473 - 11/23/13 02:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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THAT RIGHT THERE shows that maturity is already creeping in.
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: LordSenate] 1
#19177474 - 11/23/13 02:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LordSenate said: Yeah, I agree. I don't see anything replacing it either. But I've not seen things in the past that I would never have imagined possible. That's why I'm not comfortable saying that something isn't going to happen because it seems impossible.
It's just that the amount of energy stored in oil is ridiculous, there's no indication we'll get anything better. I think Enlil said it above, the energy we get from oil is millions of years of stockpiled solar energy. The sun is the only source of energy that exists (practically speaking), and only so much of its energy can make its way down here to the surface at a time. Alternatives to oil already exist, but they won't be taken advantage of in the current economic and social order because they are not as advantageous to pursue, and we are selfish little creatures seeking privilege and exaltation for ourselves above all else.
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LordSenate
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Admittedly I'm pretty fucking ignorant as to the inner workings of oil and other resources. I'm sure I sound like a hippie that thinks everything is one and all that shit but that's not how I think at all. I really care not to know about the specifics on a lot of things that happen around me and in the world because it would just take years off of my life I'm sure.
I know that I understand little to nothing about the world, let alone the universe.. I'm not really into religions but I'm not a person who believes that there is definitely some type of purpose regardless if I know what it is.
Maybe its a symptom of reading too many fantasy books but even though I don't feel strongly that there is a positive outcome to all of our existence, I willfully embrace the possibility of anything happening to alleviate my negative outlook on life.
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KrishnaDreamer
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Pretty sure oil interests have a play in that.
I already listed a couple alternatives, and someone else mentioned fusion, geothermal is another one.
Oil companies have a lot of interest in keeping these technologies from being pursued, for obvious reasons.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: Honestly I can't see anything replacing oil. The problem with a lot of alternative fuel sources is that they're mainly for show, they require oil to manufacture. Most "green" or "sustainable" fuels have been an epic bust: they're only sustainable IF an alternative energy source as good as or better than oil is discovered.
That's nonsense. At the moment it's just a matter of economics. Once oil becomes too unattractive, other energy sources will gain market share. I'm not exactly sure how you're overlooking this obvious notion. See also my posts in the recent oil thread.
Quote:
Esekon Kelly said: People say animals are mindless and even incomptent but if you look just a century ago, the world saw primitive people the exact same way a civilized man would look upon a dumb animal such as a donkey.
Human intelligence hasn't evolved much over the last century, and neither has animal intelligence. Evolution doesn't go that fast. If you want to see other animals catch up with humans in terms of technology development and dissemination of knowledge, then you'll have to look at a time scale of tens of millions of years. By then, you could theoretically have offspring of today's monkeys, pigs or dolphins exhibiting human-like intelligence.
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BlindSophist said: Dolphins and whales are already smarter than humans. Industrial development is not a benchmark for intelligence or success, it's only a measure of regression.
So what is your benchmark for intelligence? The tendency to stay underwater?
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Our brains have been shrinking ever since cro-magnon, FYI.
Brain size is not a reliable predictor of intelligence.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: It's just that the amount of energy stored in oil is ridiculous, there's no indication we'll get anything better.
Nuclear for example. And that hasn't taken over the world. Why? Economics. The extraction and use of nuclear energy is relatively cumbersome and therefore expensive in comparison with other sources. Once oil becomes cumbersome (and it does), it'll become less attractive as well.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Quote:
LordSenate said: Admittedly I'm pretty fucking ignorant as to the inner workings of oil and other resources. I'm sure I sound like a hippie that thinks everything is one and all that shit but that's not how I think at all. I really care not to know about the specifics on a lot of things that happen around me and in the world because it would just take years off of my life I'm sure.
I know that I understand little to nothing about the world, let alone the universe.. I'm not really into religions but I'm not a person who believes that there is definitely some type of purpose regardless if I know what it is.
Maybe its a symptom of reading too many fantasy books but even though I don't feel strongly that there is a positive outcome to all of our existence, I willfully embrace the possibility of anything happening to alleviate my negative outlook on life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power
As far-fetched as it sounds I really think that's our best hope, aside from mining asteroids, which IMO is more likely to get the necessary financial backing since oil can be hoarded and will be especially valuable by the time such measures have become necessary.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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245willow19

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 4,861
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: Killing Jews... bad idea. 
Who said anything about killing them? I prefer enslavement and yet they shall be treated with respect and dignity though bound to servitude for all eternity unless they give up that ball of gold coins hanging around their neck...nope...not the decoy...the real gold
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: koraks]
#19177513 - 11/23/13 02:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
BlindSophist said: It's just that the amount of energy stored in oil is ridiculous, there's no indication we'll get anything better.
Nuclear for example. And that hasn't taken over the world. Why? Economics. The extraction and use of nuclear energy is relatively cumbersome and therefore expensive in comparison with other sources. Once oil becomes cumbersome (and it does), it'll become less attractive as well.
There are a lot of strikes against nuclear energy aside from the cost. For example, the waste problem. And the Fukushima incident hasn't really set a good precedent for safety. I just keep seeing visions of a future where the world is full of ancient nuclear disasters, held in slow motion by a priestly caste of civil engineers demanding exorbitant tributes from the confused and fearful masses...
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: There are a lot of strikes against nuclear energy aside from the cost.
They all translate into economic costs. Waste: costly to manage, let alone to clean up. Safety risks: idem. That's not to say they are purely economic costs; they obviously have societal and environmental aspects too (or primarily), but that doesn't take away the economic impact. In fact, the only reason why fossil fuels are still relatively attractive is due to the imperfections of the economics surrounding them, as there is no economic mechanism in place to demand the cleanup of their waste or the replenishment of their stocks. The latter we seem to find acceptable as a society, but the former is becoming less and less accepted, which is a factor in the rising costs associated with the use of fossil fuels.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,503
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: koraks]
#19177968 - 11/23/13 07:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nuclear power can't replace fossil fuels, though.
First, it only generates electricity which is useless for cars and planes unless we get a whole lot better batteries.
Second, it's not a renewable resource either.
Finally, the amount of nuclear plants it would take to replace fossil fuel electricity generation alone is astronomical. If you want to replace oil, too, you're talking about many more than that.
It's just not possible to replace fossil fuel solely with nuclear fission plants...It's not possible to replace 25% of it with fission.
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19177975 - 11/23/13 07:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Nuclear power can't replace fossil fuels, though.
First, it only generates electricity which is useless for cars and planes unless we get a whole lot better batteries.
Second, it's not a renewable resource either.
Finally, the amount of nuclear plants it would take to replace fossil fuel electricity generation alone is astronomical. If you want to replace oil, too, you're talking about many more than that.
It's just not possible to replace fossil fuel solely with nuclear fission plants...It's not possible to replace 25% of it with fission.
Not renewable, but there's enough thorium to meet the earths power need for as long as the current relationship between the earth and sun exists. Thats a really long time.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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I think you're overstating the amount of energy that can be generated and underestimating the amount that will be used in the future, but it MIGHT be a better way to go IF we ever get the technology to work well on a large scale.
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19178004 - 11/23/13 08:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,503
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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PROBLEM SOLVED!
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman


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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19178012 - 11/23/13 08:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I think you're overstating the abundance of thorium, but it MIGHT be a better way to go IF we ever get the technology to work well on a large scale.
Nope, Quote:
The Thorium Energy Alliance (TEA), an educational advocacy organization, emphasizes that "there is enough thorium in the United States alone to power the country at its current energy level for over 10,000 years."[3
They might be a biased source though.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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10,000 years isn't even close to being "as the current relationship between the earth and sun exists"
You overstated your position.
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman


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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19178227 - 11/23/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: 10,000 years isn't even close to being "as the current relationship between the earth and sun exists"
You overstated your position.
I read that once, but now I can't find it.
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Mush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19178244 - 11/23/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: 10,000 years isn't even close to being "as the current relationship between the earth and sun exists"
You overstated your position.
And you're understating the significance of 10,000 years.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Not at all. Thorium reactors aren't a viable option right now. Maybe they will be someday. They currently aren't though, and it may be a long time before the technology becomes practical for large scale generation of electricity....if ever.
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Mush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19178262 - 11/23/13 10:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Once again, I'm not advocating for the complete replacement of fossil fuels at this point. I am advocating for reducing them as much as possible through alternate sources, which I admit, is a huge task.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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I'm not advocating for anything. Fossil fuels are going to run out whether we replace them or not.
The only question is whether the depletion of fossil fuels is just going to be a bump in the road as we transition to other sources or the end of civilization as we know it....Or anything in between.
At this point, I'm inclined to think the latter is far more likely.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: Dolphins and whales are already smarter than humans.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Mush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Humans and slaves [Re: Enlil]
#19178400 - 11/23/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe the dangers in burning fossil fuels are much more likely to destroy civilization as we know it than running out of fossil fuels.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,503
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Burning fossil fuel isn't going to end civilization. That's ridiculous
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