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InvisibleSimplepowa
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Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil
    #19174370 - 11/22/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It’s been hard to miss the stories about the rise of “krokodil,” a dangerous drug with which American journalists have become fascinated, thanks to its relevance to two of the media’s favorite topics: zombie culture and the strange things that our children do behind our backs.

“Krokodil, more perilous than heroin, possibly surfaces in Arizona,” reports the Los Angeles Times. “Doctors confirm: Use of flesh-eating opioid drug krokodil is spreading in U.S.,” says Raw Story. “Doctors confirm world’s most horrifying drug has hit the U.S. in new article for scholarly journal,” cries Time. Take to the lifeboats! Soon, no one will be safe!

Like most stories about drug panics—the Great Bath Salts Riots of 2012 come to mind—the reporting on the ostensibly “flesh-eating” krokodil generally contains an ounce of truth and pounds of utter nonsense. Yes, krokodil is here, and yes, it is very bad for you.

.. No, it isn’t everywhere.

.........No, it doesn’t turn users into the walking dead.

It poses no immediate danger to your children, unless they are prone to headaches caused by bombastic headlines. And while claims that krokodil is spreading rapidly throughout the U.S. might be excellent clickbait, they do not stand up to serious scrutiny.

Krokodil, or desomorphine, is a cheap heroin substitute. You get it by mixing codeine with paint thinner, gasoline, and several other toxic ingredients. The drug first popped up in Eastern Europe early last decade, and appears to be relatively popular in Russia. Krokodil is unquestionably bad for your health: Regular users can expect to live an average of just a couple years after they start taking the drug, and that short lifespan will be plagued by painful sores and skin ulcers, internal vein and tissue damage, and organ failure.

This is harrowing stuff. But it’s nothing that Americans need to worry about. As far as I can tell, there has been one doctor-verified case of krokodil poisoning in the United States.

This case was documented by two St. Louis physicians in an upcoming article for the American Journal of Medicine; the doctors report treating a drug user suffering from blisters and necrotic ulcers after injecting homemade krokodil for a two-month period. (The man, a daily heroin user for two years, had turned to krokodil because it was cheaper than heroin.)

The skin on the man’s left thigh, where he had been injecting the krokodil, had turned black, and was covered in lesions. His left little finger had “turned black and auto amputated,” though the article does not make clear whether this should be blamed on krokodil or on the man’s heroin habit.

Every other case of U.S. krokodil poisoning that’s been reported in the press, as far as I know, is based on a speculative, unverified diagnosis from overeager or underinformed physicians, police officers, or poison control personnel.

As Abby Haglage recently wrote in an excellent piece for the Daily Beast, much of what has been reported as krokodil poisoning is probably just the result of plain old heroin abuse.

Heroin, like krokodil, is injected intravenously, and intravenous drug abusers are generally susceptible to sores, infections, vein and tissue damage, and gangrene—no matter what drug they’re injecting. She notes that the Drug Enforcement Administration refutes the krokodil panic, with the agency saying that “We have nothing to indicate that [krokodil is] out there.”

America doesn’t have a krokodil problem, Haglage concludes, it has a heroin and painkiller problem. Those drugs are widely abused, and they’re far more destructive than krokodil. That’s a good story, but it’s not a new one, and it’s certainly not a clicky or shareable one: Flesh-eating zombie drugs are much more fun to write about. There’s nothing inherently wrong with reporting on krokodil: the drug does exist, after all, and desperate junkies in the United States are probably using it, albeit not at the rate that the recent media campaign would have you believe. What’s wrong is knowingly overhyping the latest phony drug epidemic.

Justin Peters - Slate 11/18/13
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/11/18/krokodil_desomorphine_don_t_believe_the_hype_about_flesh_eating_drug_krokodil.html


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OfflineAtrium
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: Simplepowa]
    #19174609 - 11/22/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yep some good journalism in this story. Although the idea that desomorhpine is bad for you is really only in the sense that opiates are somewhat bad for the human body. To say it's "worse" than heroin, really isn't even correct on a relative scale.

Only the way they make it surely is. In that respect, this author failed. Although plenty of points were made, still leaving out this fact still sells ignorance on the subject.


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The only thing about Chemistry I like is all the psychedelics that come from it.

The only reason I study Psychology is to have a legitimate excuse to enjoy Chemistry. :tongue2:


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: Atrium] * 2
    #19174649 - 11/22/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Lol, I've been saying this since the articles popped up. I even debunked an article from ClevelandScene Magazine and they deleted my comment from their website. These news sites just want people to click on their shit.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: Atrium] * 1
    #19174732 - 11/22/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jamesdnh said:
Yep some good journalism in this story. Although the idea that desomorhpine is bad for you is really only in the sense that opiates are somewhat bad for the human body. To say it's "worse" than heroin, really isn't even correct on a relative scale.

Only the way they make it surely is. In that respect, this author failed. Although plenty of points were made, still leaving out this fact still sells ignorance on the subject.




Opiates? Did you skip over the part about paint thinner and gasoline? Fuck, who cares about the codine, who the fuck is going to inject gasoline?!

I'm shocked.


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19174740 - 11/22/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
Quote:

Jamesdnh said:
Yep some good journalism in this story. Although the idea that desomorhpine is bad for you is really only in the sense that opiates are somewhat bad for the human body. To say it's "worse" than heroin, really isn't even correct on a relative scale.

Only the way they make it surely is. In that respect, this author failed. Although plenty of points were made, still leaving out this fact still sells ignorance on the subject.




Opiates? Did you skip over the part about paint thinner and gasoline? Fuck, who cares about the codine, who the fuck is going to inject gasoline?!

I'm shocked.




Desomorphine =/= Krokodil

While desomorphine may be the active ingredient in "krokodil," it's not the desomorphine that causes the lesions and such. You are right about average people not wanting to inject gasoline and unreacted iodine into their veins.


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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: Simplepowa]
    #19174900 - 11/22/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Regular users can expect to live an average of just a couple years after they start taking the drug, and that short lifespan will be plagued by painful sores and skin ulcers, internal vein and tissue damage, and organ failure.

This is harrowing stuff. But it’s nothing that Americans need to worry about. As far as I can tell, there has been one doctor-verified case of krokodil poisoning in the United States.





This report is interesting, obviously.  It is awkwardly headlined, as it's point is not that Krokodil is safer than reported, but that there is no real migration to North America as of yet.

It will it time; No doubt as a substitute when things get really bad. For most here only in most dire times would it be choosen.  It's not like it is better, in anyway, to opiates that are common here, now.


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: Dickhead]
    #19174978 - 11/22/13 02:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Awebig said:
Quote:

Regular users can expect to live an average of just a couple years after they start taking the drug, and that short lifespan will be plagued by painful sores and skin ulcers, internal vein and tissue damage, and organ failure.

This is harrowing stuff. But it’s nothing that Americans need to worry about. As far as I can tell, there has been one doctor-verified case of krokodil poisoning in the United States.





This report is interesting, obviously.  It is awkwardly headlined, as it's point is not that Krokodil is safer than reported, but that there is no real migration to North America as of yet.

It will it time; No doubt as a substitute when things get really bad. For most here only in most dire times would it be choosen.  It's not like it is better, in anyway, to opiates that are common here, now.




Simply put, the United States doesn't possess infrastructure for desomorphine abuse. North of Mexico, you cannot obtain codeine over-the-counter from any pharmacy like you can in Russia. Additionally, the average US citizen cannot obtain solvents with anywhere near the purity of those that can be obtained from hardware stores in Russia. Desomporphine abuse exists really only in places where the Russian drug war has been successful (in a limited sense of the term). Since people cannot obtain heroin as easily as they once could, and are still addicted to opiates, many resort to manufacturing their own "Krokodil" mixtures. Until you can get codeine OTC in the US, desomorphine will not be commonly showing up on our streets. It is much easier and cheaper to just go to a bus stop in a run-down area of a US town and ask around for heroin.


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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: mylfgur]
    #19175068 - 11/22/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Exactly...  However, there will be occasional use by those who face the circumstance, say, of a rural northern state, or Canadian towns where that is not as easy.  Codiene is not OTC in Canada, but is much easier to get than other opiates, legit or illicit.  Some use, but never epidemic.


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Multiplied


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OfflineInTiMiDaToRdInO
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: Dickhead]
    #19175147 - 11/22/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

This thread title is misleading.

The problem with "krokodil" stems from it's quick and impure clandestine production not from desomorphine and it does cause "flesh-eating" so to speak around the area of injection then impurities flow through the bloodstream and begin affecting other areas of the body far from the injection site.


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IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING.:.TRAVEL THE UNIVERSE




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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: InTiMiDaToRdInO]
    #19175158 - 11/22/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

InTiMiDaToRdInO said:
This thread title is misleading.

The problem with "krokodil" stems from it's quick and impure clandestine production not from desomorphine and it does cause "flesh-eating" so to speak around the area of injection then impurities flow through the bloodstream and begin affecting other areas of the body far from the injection site.



I don't think that it's misleading at all. The thread title is the title of the news blog article by Justin Peters. If there is anything misleading about it, you should take it up with him. If anything, I think his article is the most truthful thing that has ever been reported about "Krokodil."


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: mylfgur]
    #19175706 - 11/22/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

resposted


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: travelleler]
    #19175948 - 11/22/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

travelleler said:
resposted



What?


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: mylfgur]
    #19176083 - 11/22/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

sorry--- wrong thread


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"Whales have deep thoughts"

:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

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Offlinemy3rdeye
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: Dickhead]
    #19176605 - 11/22/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Awebig said:
Exactly...  However, there will be occasional use by those who face the circumstance, say, of a rural northern state, or Canadian towns where that is not as easy.  Codiene is not OTC in Canada, but is much easier to get than other opiates, legit or illicit.  Some use, but never epidemic.





Tylenol 3's (30 mg) are percscription but Tylenol 1's (8mg) are over the counter in Canada.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: mylfgur]
    #19176656 - 11/22/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
Quote:

Jamesdnh said:
Yep some good journalism in this story. Although the idea that desomorhpine is bad for you is really only in the sense that opiates are somewhat bad for the human body. To say it's "worse" than heroin, really isn't even correct on a relative scale.

Only the way they make it surely is. In that respect, this author failed. Although plenty of points were made, still leaving out this fact still sells ignorance on the subject.




Opiates? Did you skip over the part about paint thinner and gasoline? Fuck, who cares about the codine, who the fuck is going to inject gasoline?!

I'm shocked.




Desomorphine =/= Krokodil

While desomorphine may be the active ingredient in "krokodil," it's not the desomorphine that causes the lesions and such. You are right about average people not wanting to inject gasoline and unreacted iodine into their veins.



Correct. It looks like this drug is popular because it can be made by the equivilant of a hillbillie with no skills accounting for the toxic poisonings. Desomorphine appears to be a safe molecule, not unlike morphine or codeine. Its the poison its messed with. And again, this is a direct result of prohibition. Just like people were blinded from drinking too much wood alchhol, people are  being killed with this poorly made heroin substitute. Legal and regulated for purity by the FDA would end all this stupid heroin overdose and krokodil crap overnight.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19176772 - 11/22/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

WHY ARE WE NOT TALKING ABOUT HOW DISGUSTING IT IS PEOPLE ARE INJECTING GASOLINE AND PAINT THINNER INTO THEIR VEINS. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR ON THIS PLANET.

We need to help these people :frown:

PS I know we are helping by trying to end the drug war, which we've already won so far (Colorado, Washington).


Fuck.


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Offlines240779
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19177299 - 11/23/13 01:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Gasoline and paint thinner aren't deliberately a part of the drug, they're just used as reagents and do not make it into the final product. Of course, in the case of desomorphine, something is making it into the final product. Gasoline is used in the extraction of cocaine (see first video). Below this video is another video showing recovering desomorphine addicts in Russia and they're bodies are physically intact. The girl specifically indicates that only improperly made desomorphine causes the notorious ailments: "It's a skill to cook it right, otherwise you'll die."

(Videos set to start at the relevant spots.)







Edited by s240779 (11/23/13 01:39 AM)


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: s240779]
    #19177664 - 11/23/13 04:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

You know, if I were a politician (which I am not), I would say just let those people kill themselves, they chose to do so, why should I bother?


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Stand up. You're not alone.


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #19178189 - 11/23/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I can't watch videos from Russia when I'm high because it looks like they're still living in 1993. always.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Don’t Believe the Hype about the “Flesh-Eating” Drug Krokodil [Re: mylfgur]
    #19178439 - 11/23/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Having lived around hardcore addicts, and assorted reprobates, I believe they will always find some way to self destruct and blame it on you, the innocent bystander.

You are being very practical and literal, to discuss legal hurdles and the particulars of manufacture.

But, this sidesteps their main objective, that is to embroil others in their self harm.

I cannot overemphasize the part of the equation, in which evil proselytizes, and damaged people see themselves as martyrs.


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