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OfflineMummitrollet
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Monotub with coir (pics)
    #19163716 - 11/20/13 06:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hi guys!

Many trips ago I posted my first growing log her (BRF-kakes) and it went fine in the end, although I never got to post the finishing result because summer came early :smile: Thanks for all the help I got on that one!

Now I have gotten a bit more serious and wanted to try my own "double tub" with just plain pasteurized coco coir and rye grain spawn. NO casing. The species is Amazonian.

I just mixed the spawn and the bulk together and waited until it colonized some parts of the spawn. I had heard from before that u should never let the mycelium colonize the whole surface area before initiating fruting conditions, but today I read some posts about it and that was only for the casing-teks. I may then have started the misting and watering too soon I suspect.

Anyways. Now it seems like the myc have colonized just about every spot in there, as u can see from the pix. But even though the temp is around the fruiting range (21-24C) and so is the CO2-levels I assume, since I have this pump which pumps fresh moist air into it 2-4 times a day, I still see no sign of primordia forming.

I initiated the fruit conditions 11.11. Now its 20.11. So 9 days have passed. It may be too early to say anything for sure, but I am getting a bit restless here :laugh: Hope there can be some shrooms growing there soon :smile:

First pic shows the tub after some days of colonizing. This is when I started fruit conditions.



This is a few days ago. But it looks like this today also.




8 filter disks glued on top of 40mm holes. 12 hours light/darkness cycles.



Hope u guys can shed some light on this one :smile:


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Mummitrollet]
    #19163726 - 11/20/13 06:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'd guess about eight-ten-twelve days for knots
to form and start seeing pins? That only looks 1/2 Colonized
in my opinion, though Im guessing you used a casing layer?

People arent standing behind the casing layer in mono-tubs
much anymore, saying theres no use for it besides longer colonization times.


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OfflineMummitrollet
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19163741 - 11/20/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

No casing on this one. You mean the second pic looks like half colonized? Damn. Then I should stop the pumping of water and air and just let it sit in darkness for a few days maybe? To promote the vegetative growth even further before going back to fruiting conditions.

Thanks man! :smile:


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Mummitrollet]
    #19163747 - 11/20/13 06:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, after looking again the 2nd picture looks good, but again on
the third picture, doesent look fully colonized.

Whats with the blue lights?

6500k Daylight Bulbs! CFL are the best bet.

What are you running?


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OfflineMummitrollet
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Mummitrollet]
    #19163755 - 11/20/13 06:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I have also heard that casing in monotubs is a bad idea. More contam and takes longer time. But maybe it promotes a more even growth? Dont know.

I was a bit concerned about overlay when I did this, but it seems that is a good thing when not using casing?


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OfflineMummitrollet
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Mummitrollet]
    #19163773 - 11/20/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I see it can be confusing that the third pic is actually taken at the same time as the first one. Just wanted to show the whole thing, not so much the growth inside. The second pic is the one most recently taken.

I thought blue lights was what the mushies wanted?? Or is that old news?

I run P.C. Amazonian. Used two 900ml jars to colonize the whole thing.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19163788 - 11/20/13 06:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mummitrollet said:
I have also heard that casing in monotubs is a bad idea.



Not true at all...there is nothing wrong with casing a fully colonized bulk substrate in a monotub.

Quote:

Mummitrollet said:
I was a bit concerned about overlay when I did this, but it seems that is a good thing when not using casing?



Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Overlay is bullshit and most of it relates to a picture of a normal casing layer in TMC that is incorrectly labeled as overlay.

A few months ago, I 'jokingly' said I'd ban the next person who asked an overlay question and it worked . . .until now. :lol:

What happens is one person asks about overlay, and for the next six months, every new grower thinks he has overlay.

I can guarantee you don't have it, since I've only seen it a handful of times, and I've been known to have grown a few projects in my day.  Full colonization of the casing layer is not overlay.  Give lots of fresh air and light, while misting a few times daily and you'll fruit soon.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9467709#9467709

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I've seen overlay two or three times in 40 years, so I doubt seriously you are seeing it, especially on an uncased bulk substrate.  It's common for new growers to mistake full colonization for overlay.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17163830#17163830

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
By definition, a bulk substrate can't get 'overlay'.




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15803177#15803177

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen overlay in 40 years.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13797279#13797279

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Uncased bulk substrates should be left alone and covered until 100% colonized.  Overlay is a vastly misunderstood phenomena which only affects species such as agaricus(button mushrooms) which require a casing layer.

Whatever you do don't deep scratch.  That's a failed method which was disproved 30 years ago.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13547569#13547569



Quote:

JMcDoogle said:
People arent standing behind the casing layer in mono-tubs
much anymore, saying theres no use for it besides longer colonization times.



Are you sure you are talking about a casing layer and not just a top layer of coir over the exposed grains?

Because that is not considered a casing layer.....


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OfflineAero
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Mummitrollet]
    #19163790 - 11/20/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

u started fruiting a bit early..
u should have waited till the substrate is fully colonized, as this is one of the factors that triggers pinning


http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5940197#5940197


(i just leave that link there, so people not gonna start questioning)


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Edited by Aero (11/20/13 07:01 AM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Aero]
    #19163792 - 11/20/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
u started fruiting a bit early..
u should have waited till the substrate is fully colonized, as this is one of the factors that triggers pinning



:whathesaid:


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Aero]
    #19163793 - 11/20/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
u started fruiting a bit early..
u should have waited till the substrate is fully colonized, as this is one of the factors that triggers pinning



:whathesaid:


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OfflineAero
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: PussyFart]
    #19163796 - 11/20/13 07:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

how long do u wait Notahacker420 ?
i like to give and extra 2-3 days after fully white, then uncover them and they explode in a few days


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Aero]
    #19163799 - 11/20/13 07:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
how long do u wait Notahacker420 ?
i like to give and extra 2-3 days after fully white, then uncover them and they explode in a few days



Fruit at 100%......no need to wait any longer with bulk.


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OfflineAero
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: PussyFart]
    #19163803 - 11/20/13 07:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

yea i just like to make sure that its colonized inside out :rolleyes:


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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Aero]
    #19163806 - 11/20/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
yea i just like to make sure that its colonized inside out :rolleyes:



If you mixed the spawn evenly with the substrate, as long as the surface is fully colonized, so should the whole substrate.

Mycellium grows outward in a 3D spherical pattern.....


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OfflineMummitrollet
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Aero]
    #19163847 - 11/20/13 07:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Notahacker420. Very interesting the links u put there. I seem to be worrying in vain about the overlay :smile: And just frustrating RR even more :wink: Not my intention of course.

I was actually thinking about scratching the surface, but will definitely NOT do that. I will pause my fanning and watering for a few days I think now, just to see if that can boost the vegetative growth until fully colonized. There are a few smaller patches not colonized yet.


OnlineAero. Thanks for the link! I surprise myself how little I know all the time. I keep learning a lot and thats good :laugh: So, if the light is not so important. Where does the 12 hour cycle comes from? Is it unnecessary? :crazy:

Thanks a lot guys, so far! Learn so much from u! :smile:


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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Mummitrollet]
    #19163852 - 11/20/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Jars/bags/tubs/trays should colonize @ room temperature getting ambient/indirect light.

Main pinning triggers are full colonization, FAE and Evaporation off of the substrate.

Light is a secondary pinning trigger. For tropical species temperature is not a pinning factor.

Light has been proven beneficial during all stages of mycellium growth. Mushrooms like mammals have a circadian rhythm.

You want ambient/indirect light(on a 12/12 schedule preferably) for colonization and consolidation.

You want direct/intense 6500K light on a 12/12 schedule for fruiting.


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: PussyFart]
    #19163856 - 11/20/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yep, was talking about his layer of
colonized coir.


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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19163861 - 11/20/13 07:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That is not considered a casing layer.

That is just a protective layer to cover any exposed grains.

Casing layers get applied to a bulk substrate AFTER full colonization, and is used for moisture retention and pinning.


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OfflineMummitrollet
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: PussyFart]
    #19163936 - 11/20/13 08:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Jars/bags/tubs/trays should colonize @ room temperature getting ambient/indirect light.

Main pinning triggers are full colonization, FAE and Evaporation off of the substrate.

Light is a secondary pinning trigger. For tropical species temperature is not a pinning factor.

Light has been proven beneficial during all stages of mycellium growth. Mushrooms like mammals have a circadian rhythm.

You want ambient/indirect light(on a 12/12 schedule preferably) for colonization and consolidation.

You want direct/intense 6500K light on a 12/12 schedule for fruiting.





That pretty much sums it up :smile:

I have always tried to keep the spawn/substrate in total darkness. I see now that that is totally unnecessary as long as I keep the CO2 levels high and allow no air flow and as long as the spawn/substrate is not fully colonized, which is usually the case anyways inside any jar or tub. I have though this pump which pump in clean and moist air. But it does it in a very slow manner. So Im not convinced I get all the air flow I would like to have to start the pinning. But this is my first try with this technology so I will keep to the plan til the end this time and later see it it can be improved.

Lights is definitely secondary. The cooling of the finished spawn is also unnecessary among the cubes it seems. Will keep up the intense blue light for the fruiting phase after a few more days of colonizing :smile:

Will keep u posted guys!


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OfflineMummitrollet
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Re: Monotub with coir (pics) [Re: Mummitrollet]
    #19174384 - 11/22/13 10:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, I have now cut the FAE in the tub for two days. Also dropped the direct light. It has just been standing at my floor in ceiling lamp light when Im in there.

Today I thought the surface looked pretty covered now so I removed the lid and fanned pretty heavy along with my HEPA-filter abowe, blowing away any possible contam sources. And now I saw something on the surface of the substrate. Many places I see these small white dots, as u can see from the photo. In the middle and a little bit around that. Is this the pinning taking place or contam? :ooo:



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