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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.
But neither does a shortage of homes and food imply that there is overpopulation.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
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KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger
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For the last time, stop trying to make this thread about döners!
-------------------- I have pneumonia
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gzuf
٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 6,535
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Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: That's obviously not the problem.
Is food the problem?
Water then?
Quote:
Would water be a problem, though? It's calculated that we need 350 billion liters of water per day to properly hydrate 6.8 billion people. It seems like a lot, but the Columbia River alone could produce that amount in less than a day. By the way, the Columbia River is the U.S.’s fourth largest river. So, again, that leaves the rest of the world’s water supply open and ready to serve. So, we’re not really overpopulated. We just need to be better at managing our resources. Read more at http://www.omg-facts.com/Interesting/The-Entire-World-Population-Could-Fit-In/55348#wdQROiA3lor41ccJ.99
Well what is it?
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,710
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
DieCommie said: But neither does a shortage of homes and food imply that there is overpopulation.
It certainly does when we use the term with respect to every other species. I don't see why it wouldn't with humans.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: For the last time, stop trying to make this thread about döners!
but why not? we're all doomed, might as well enjoy a Döner before we all die!
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil] 3
#19174311 - 11/22/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: But neither does a shortage of homes and food imply that there is overpopulation.
It certainly does when we use the term with respect to every other species. I don't see why it wouldn't with humans.
It certainly does? How do you figure that one?
If a group of Orca cannot feed themselves you think there necessarily must be an Orca overpopulation problem? I think there may be a Orca culture problem. Some Orca are fine to eat fish, others prefer mammals. Some are effective at hunting fish, others are effective at hunting mammals. For the most part their cultural preferences align with their local availability. But conflict and change disrupt this and their cultures need to adapt, or they die. Some adapt, some die.
I've never seen or read about any famine or mass homelessness that was caused by overpopulation. Rather, they are inventively caused by wars and dysfunctional political, religious and economic systems. Crappy culture, not overpopulation, is the cause of extreme poverty and hunger.
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman
Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
#19174314 - 11/22/13 09:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: But neither does a shortage of homes and food imply that there is overpopulation.
It certainly does when we use the term with respect to every other species. I don't see why it wouldn't with humans.
So a drought means deer are overpopulated?
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,710
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
o·ver·pop·u·la·tion (vr-ppy-lshn) n. Excessive population of an area to the point of overcrowding, depletion of natural resources, or environmental deterioration.
overpopulation (vr-ppy-lshn)
The population of an environment by a particular species in excess of the environment's carrying capacity. The effects of overpopulation can include the depletion of resources, environmental deterioration, and the prevalence of famine and disease.
Seems to me like scarcity of food and housing amounts to "depletion of natural resources"
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil] 1
#19174419 - 11/22/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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humans are good at making food and housing, so nah, no problem.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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The wealthiest few people in the world consume more resources than millions of the world's poor, so if the gross over consumption of the few could be curtailed the earth could sustain more people.
However, both population and consumption are problematic, and for the ecosphere to be preserved both overconsumption and overpopulation need to addressed.
-------------------- Everything I post is fiction.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,710
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
#19174626 - 11/22/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: The wealthiest few people in the world consume more resources than millions of the world's poor,
Please cite a source for this claim. Thanks in advance.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions
Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,822
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
#19174825 - 11/22/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am pretty sure humanity will face much greater problems than overpopulation.
20 billion? Now there's a problem. 10 to 12? Manageable
Now let's see, what's the first essential resource that could be depleted soon?
Water: Hell no, worse comes to worse, filter ocean water
Space: Earth is 29% land and only 1% is covered is inhabited
Food: It's practically unlimited. Worse comes to worse, we only occupy 1% so that's a whole lot of spaceto farm
Iron/Aluminum/copper, metal in general: Unlimited. We have mined like 0.000001% of the planet
Wood: This is one that is at risk, but I doubt it would happen
Oil: We are aware that we will run out and we are already taking steps to replace it
A clean supply of Oxygen: Well there's your problem. We better start cleaning up our mess
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,710
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
#19174893 - 11/22/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Water: Hell no, worse comes to worse, filter ocean water
Desalination uses a lot of electricity. Where's it going to come from after fossil fuels are gone?Quote:
Space: Earth is 29% land and only 1% is covered is inhabited
Misleading. Not all of the earth's land is habitable, and even less is habitable without significant energy resources...again...in a post-fossil fuel world, where's that energy coming from?Quote:
Food: It's practically unlimited. Worse comes to worse, we only occupy 1% so that's a whole lot of spaceto farm
You still have the issue of climate to grow crops and energy for the equipment to do so. In a world without oil, transport of food and mechanized growing of it will be much more difficultQuote:
Oil: We are aware that we will run out and we are already taking steps to replace it
Lol...what steps are those?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
#19174895 - 11/22/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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replacing oil with alternative fuels, of course!
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman
Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
#19174905 - 11/22/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Water: Hell no, worse comes to worse, filter ocean water
Desalination uses a lot of electricity. Where's it going to come from after fossil fuels are gone?Quote:
Space: Earth is 29% land and only 1% is covered is inhabited
Misleading. Not all of the earth's land is habitable, and even less is habitable without significant energy resources...again...in a post-fossil fuel world, where's that energy coming from?Quote:
Food: It's practically unlimited. Worse comes to worse, we only occupy 1% so that's a whole lot of spaceto farm
You still have the issue of climate to grow crops and energy for the equipment to do so. In a world without oil, transport of food and mechanized growing of it will be much more difficultQuote:
Oil: We are aware that we will run out and we are already taking steps to replace it
Lol...what steps are those?
Someones never heard of renewable energy.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,710
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Who hasn't? I generate many megawatt/hours of power every year with solar panels...
Nonetheless, Solar, wind, geothermal, and nuclear cannot replace oil and coal at current consumption levels, and it hasn't a shot in hell of doing it at future consumption levels.
Unless/until new technology is developed for the generation and storage of electricity, we've no chance of replacing fossil fuel.
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman
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Posts: 5,436
Loc: US
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
#19174928 - 11/22/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Who hasn't? I generate many megawatt/hours of power every year with solar panels...
Nonetheless, Solar, wind, geothermal, and nuclear cannot replace oil and coal at current consumption levels, and it hasn't a shot in hell of doing it at future consumption levels.
Unless/until new technology is developed for the generation and storage of electricity, we've no chance of replacing fossil fuel.
New technology is under constant development and batteries can store more power every year. But for arguments sake lets say we have an unlimited amount of cheap electricity to work with. Then we could use one of several currently existing technologies to synthesize fuel form the air and electricity that could power engines. This process would be carbon neutral.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,710
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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That's a big assumption, and batteries are still nowhere near at a point where they could be used to power electric commercial flights. They're not likely to get there in the next 50 years either.
I think you're dreaming here. We're a long way off from replacing oil with an alternative energy.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions
Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,822
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
#19175118 - 11/22/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That's a big assumption, and batteries are still nowhere near at a point where they could be used to power electric commercial flights. They're not likely to get there in the next 50 years either.
I think you're dreaming here. We're a long way off from replacing oil with an alternative energy.
50 years?
You think you can predict there won't be a breakthrough in battery technology in the next 50 years?
50 years ago, a computer was the size of a house. Now we have them absolutely everywhere and they are smaller than credit cards.
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