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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet] * 1
    #19173787 - 11/22/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

peeps claim monotubs are "easier."
its certainly easy enough for noobs,
hence its popularity.
id suggest the proper term is " trichier"


bulkers never see the whole picture violet,
with them its about cost and ease first and only.

they dont consider many things,
because,its all about getting that flush before it trichs.
contams are assumed, and sustainability isnt even a rational thought.
its a whole different paradigm.
they have no clue they can cycle clean effecient, light, fast and power friendly crops, cheap and easy over time in sustainable ways.
its alien to many.
in their world its "pack shit in buckets and hope for shrooms faster than trich"

as peeps grasp the utility of v-tek on so many levels,
alot of the myths will subside.

i dont expect any hard core bulkers to convert methods.
many stalk these threads to dissuade peeps from attempting these types of grows.
if peeps see the whole picture, bulks lose appeal.
if bulks lost favor among the masses , egos would be in flames.

and expect big flames fer sure,
no steamed stack of shit sacks ,
can sandbag out the new age grow.
biological efficiency, always wins out.


as always great stuff violet.



--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (11/22/13 06:43 AM)


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: anne halonium] * 1
    #19173794 - 11/22/13 06:33 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Fact is monotubs are even easier....no bottom watering period.



NO THEY ARE NOT EASIER.

Remember: just a little watering entirely replaces bulk sub acquisition, prep, pasteurization, spawn break-up, bulk inoculation and mixing, and the disposing of so much spent substrate. Also eliminates the greatest failure risk junctures.

We're all already doing the sterile work of inoculating our sterilized grains in containers of some sort.
This tek reduces almost the entire grow procedure to just those otherwise beginning steps.




:whateveryousayfreak:



Noted, a graemlin instead of a point.
Probably wise to save face instead of making the impossible argument that sub acquisition, prep, treatment, inoc/colonizing, poly-tuning, dunking, and disposal  is less difficult than pouring a tad of water.

Quote:

Moorning Due said:
When you microwave as seen in this photo:

How do you keep the water from boiling up and out of the container and all over your microwave? Why can't you just put the lid on but not tighten it?



There's hardly any standing water, just the bit that falls out of the muddy soil when properly prepped.
You could try having an unscrewed lid on if you like, but remember this:  That casing tek's heat treatment method involves a lot of water loss in the microwave process, which is why it starts as a mud.  With the lid on it could still be runny after the treatments.
Try it with the lid off! Don't be afraid! I do it all the time

Quote:

anne halonium said:
bulkers never see the whole picture violet,
with them its about cost and ease first and only.



If that were really true, they'd more easily see this tek's strengths and appeals


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #19173803 - 11/22/13 06:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: anne halonium]
    #19173847 - 11/22/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:scumbagman:

I was just curious Anne, are you from Central America?

Thx!


--------------------
The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19173858 - 11/22/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

no.
but my PM's are turned on again,
for that type of inquiry.

now back to our regularly scheduled program.............


--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (11/22/13 07:10 AM)


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OfflineForgottenFreshness
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: anne halonium]
    #19174128 - 11/22/13 08:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I like the idea what I don't like is how much it would cost to fill a greenhouse with these ziplock pint jars lol. Might try something similar in flat quart or half gallon size deli dishes rated pp5 though. It would be the same idea just larger containers.


Edited by ForgottenFreshness (11/22/13 09:00 AM)


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: ForgottenFreshness]
    #19174153 - 11/22/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

its not the same idea, larger containers take longer to PC.
and ya lose surface area efficiency.

because of the production and speed value,
you dont have to fill a green house.
thats the point.

you guys are so used to bulk yields......
its a different paradigm,
v tekkers grow less, get more.

you wonder why the v tekkers have missionary zeal?
we might know something about bio effeciency.


v tekkers dont need massive tub ops to get serious crops.
half the work, double the output. 1/4 the sub weight. and trich is rare.


--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (11/22/13 09:07 AM)


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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: anne halonium]
    #19174420 - 11/22/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If I wasn't working with species that required bulk i'd give this a shot, I do like the pp5s there great and almost free for me, sometimes bulk is a requirement though. Next cube run for sure, my gh,s are bored lol


--------------------

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I'm tired do me a favor


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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: cronicr]
    #19174450 - 11/22/13 10:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

double the output.




Not just superior to bulk... double the yield. Wow, that is quite the claim.

Would be awesome to see a friendly side-by-side between a "turd farmer/tub grower" TC and a "V-tekker" to see if V-tekkers claims of double the yield hold up.

Such a thread would get lots of views I'm sure.

Not in anyway trying to stir the pot, just genuinely interested in seeing if V-tek can truly double the yield of bulk/tub grows.


Edited by InTheBiggun (11/22/13 10:38 AM)


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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: InTheBiggun]
    #19174559 - 11/22/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry if i missed this, but what is the substrate used in the OP photos? It looks like whole brown rice.


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: InTheBiggun]
    #19174622 - 11/22/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

InTheBiggun said:
Quote:

double the output.



just genuinely interested in seeing if V-tek can truly double the yield of bulk/tub grows.




youve known about this tek for years ,
it was originally shown on your other alleged forum.

it was even demo-ed with exotics,
you know, the CNM mexicanas , that no one can grow cept,
me, capt future , elf, az, and sorta stonesun.

over 70 prints went out.
v tek methods, have prevailed to date.

come to think of it, others have demo-ed it on your " other forum"
with both cubes and pans i believe.

we use a fraction of the sub,
and get multi flushes,
and we rarely end in trich.

should be obvious at face value.
multi flushes always beat a one trich pony sub tub.

your informed biggums,
develop grow skills and test for your self.
ive known ya for some time,
your kidding if your suggesting your your the arbiter
of a grow ya dont have the skills to even do.

fact is, the most of the v tekkers, used to be bulkers.
its why they are v tekkers now.
its the new age, and they expect more.


--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (11/22/13 11:51 AM)


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OfflineForgottenFreshness
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: anne halonium]
    #19174661 - 11/22/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

anne halonium said:
its not the same idea, larger containers take longer to PC.
and ya lose surface area efficiency.

because of the production and speed value,
you dont have to fill a green house.
thats the point.

you guys are so used to bulk yields......
its a different paradigm,
v tekkers grow less, get more.

you wonder why the v tekkers have missionary zeal?
we might know something about bio effeciency.


v tekkers dont need massive tub ops to get serious crops.
half the work, double the output. 1/4 the sub weight. and trich is rare.





Sorry :smile:


Edited by ForgottenFreshness (12/04/13 11:55 AM)


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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: ForgottenFreshness]
    #19174821 - 11/22/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

For me the v tek is not appealing due to 3 simple reasons. Cost, Environment, and space.

Cost is a big one. RGS is very expensive in my neck of the woods, more than 4 times the price of rye berries. I spawn to bulk and my costs go down. Even if I was using WBS it would still cost alot more to get the same amount of sub. Maybe yield is more than double per pound of sub, but that's not enough to make it viable for me.

Second is environment. In the area I live, even running a large central humidification system, RH is still around 15% in my house. Bulk trays do much better in a SGFC for me than cakes or cased grains. If I spawn that bulk into a mono then I don't have to worry about misting or rehydrating my perlite every 3 days. When you work 70 hr weeks like I often do, that ability to set and forget is priceless.

Third is space. I can get a lot more sub into x amount of space with a monotub than I can with all those pp5 containers. Even with smaller tubs my space is still used more efficiently than it is with SGFC's. The fact I can stack monos makes a huge space savings.

I for one am not saying that v tek is unsuitable for everyone. But I don't think it will work well for me. Everyone has specific challenges due to environment. Mine made me think that growing was too hard when I first started with cakes. That is why bulk saved my grows. As far as v tek goes, if I actually get some time off in the future, I do plan to give it a large scale go. But until then, my situation is far better served with bulk and monotubs, at least for cubensis.

Edit: as for the claims of trich, I rarely see it before my 4th flush. I usually aim for 4-5 flushes with my bulk tubs anyway.


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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #19175028 - 11/22/13 02:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Pasty I totally understand and respect your grow choices, and am not trying to convince you otherwise or anything,
I respond as such only to address the facts of what we're discussing relative to the tek.
As you say that you haven't any experience with the tek, I encourage you to further investigate how much your determinations truly apply, because as someone with lots of experience with it I feel your statements about the tek are indicative of only a partial understanding.

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
For me the v tek is not appealing due to 3 simple reasons. Cost, Environment, and space.

Cost is a big one. RGS is very expensive in my neck of the woods, more than 4 times the price of rye berries. I spawn to bulk and my costs go down. Even if I was using WBS it would still cost alot more to get the same amount of sub. Maybe yield is more than double per pound of sub, but that's not enough to make it viable for me.



How is this in any way a proper reason for "v tek" to not appeal?  There's no basis for this in the tek.
I already responded to this above.  Any grain works.

The statement, "Even if I was using WBS it would still cost alot more to get the same amount of sub."
What's the logic for that?
If you pay a fixed price for a certain amount of substrate, why would it cost any more put into different containers?

Besides, grain price-per-pound is not that big of a factor.  As said with grass seed, 1 pound has 5x the inoculation power as 1 pound of rye. Being 2x as expensive as rye still makes it the better buy for such a use.

Also, grass seed is a very light grain; one would be surprised how much more one gets in the same pound for the same dollar!


Further, different grains can perform differently which is seen with teks like this one where they're the only materials, and there are many related factors to consider. For instance:

If (Grain A) gets 120% the yield of (Grain B) but costs 125% as much as (Grain B) it can seem at first as if (Grain B) is the better buy anyway.
However it's important to remember that (Grain B) will also require 120% as many containers to reach the same yield, and thus 120% the sterilization energy, as well as 120% of the space, so on so forth.

There are more facets as well, such as how quickly grains sterilize.  The larger the grain and/or more watermass held, the longer sterilization is required or contam rates will go up if not.


Also not everyone can get rye etc. especially in bulk for a decent price.
Likewise not everyone has a good cover for buying/owning rye/wheat/birdseed. As I've said elsewhere: Face it, you're not making bread or feeding birds much less horses, whereas grass seed "is for the yard" and rice clearly for dinner!


Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Second is environment. In the area I live, even running a large central humidification system, RH is still around 15% in my house. Bulk trays do much better in a SGFC for me than cakes or cased grains. If I spawn that bulk into a mono then I don't have to worry about misting or rehydrating my perlite every 3 days. When you work 70 hr weeks like I often do, that ability to set and forget is priceless.



For fruiting chamber setups that are difficult to maintain moisture, I can see this being a thing.

However there are MANY FC options with this style grow, some which retain 100%RH practically guaranteed with no consideration for ambient RH, so honestly that also is No good reason.

I also address that above;  THIS IS ALMOST A NEGLECT TEK
With the exception of regular harvest and very occasional watering, it's nearly as set-and-forget as it gets, especially considering the lead-up!

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Third is space. I can get a lot more sub into x amount of space with a monotub than I can with all those pp5 containers. Even with smaller tubs my space is still used more efficiently than it is with SGFC's. The fact I can stack monos makes a huge space savings.




Straight-up false.      (Except SGFCs, they are a poor example, very ineffective space-wise)

I easily fit significantly more containers on shelf space per a given area than I can fit in monos within that exact same area.
When I had my GH up it held ~300 containers in the same space that 8 of common 106qt tubs would hold ~180.

Even still using tote FCs, I get as much yield (for instance with 18 containers in a 106qt mono) than I would with a large bulk cake instead.
Either way I look at it, if done right this tek yields as much in less space, thus more in the same space.

Were it that they tied in yield, the many other advantages of this tek (like contam isolation which is related to this very point) break the tie.
Considering it all epistemologically, it breaks the tie by a long shot.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Edited by Violet (11/22/13 02:35 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #19176118 - 11/22/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Don't get melty on me Violet, I actually like to think of myself as mostly impartial in this debate :lol: I do however have a few questions that your responses have raised for me.

Quote:

Violet said:
The statement, "Even if I was using WBS it would still cost alot more to get the same amount of sub."
What's the logic for that?
If you pay a fixed price for a certain amount of substrate, why would it cost any more put into different containers?




Are you inferring that the bulk sub is merely a means of providing water thus it should not be counted as part of the volume of sub? If I spawn 6 quarts grain to 18 quarts sub, that is going to be a lot cheaper that 24 quarts of grain would be. Obviously grain is the bigger factor of course for yield, but if the comparison between your yield claims for the tek exclude the sub that has me curious. If that truly is your statement, then it would be easier to run a conclusive side by side to compare how much difference there truly is.

Quote:

Violet said:
However there are MANY FC options with this style grow, some which retain 100%RH practically guaranteed with no consideration for ambient RH, so honestly that also is No good reason.




So if I wanted to re-purpose a mono to hold the containers, that would be considered "following the tek"?

Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Third is space. I can get a lot more sub into x amount of space with a monotub than I can with all those pp5 containers. Even with smaller tubs my space is still used more efficiently than it is with SGFC's. The fact I can stack monos makes a huge space savings.




Straight-up false.      (Except SGFCs, they are a poor example, very ineffective space-wise)

I easily fit significantly more containers on shelf space per a given area than I can fit in monos within that exact same area.
When I had my GH up it held ~300 containers in the same space that 8 of common 106qt tubs would hold ~180.

Even still using tote FCs, I get as much yield (for instance with 18 containers in a 106qt mono) than I would with a large bulk cake instead.
Either way I look at it, if done right this tek yields as much in less space, thus more in the same space.




Still not sure about this comment. For GH users maybe, but that's not an option for many people. I do want to get one going, but when I do, it won't be for growing cubes. This in my mind leaves totes, (the standard for FC be it a mono or SGFC) which come in different shapes and sizes to be sure, however I don't see how you can maximize the square footage as efficiently with the round containers in the square mono. You will get more sub in a monotub with bulk than you could with pp5 containers. Its the whole "round peg in a square hole quandary" or is there another method of FC construction that I am simply unaware of? Of course there is always the option of shorter tubs, but you would want to limit your genetics to those disposed to producing fatasses (don't get me wrong tho, I loves me some fatass mushies). Not a flaw in the tek as I see it, but worth knowing.

Regardless, you seem very confident that my conditions should have no part to play in the success of the tek. While most of my noobish experience is from the trichy bulk, I shall muster what little skills I have in order to move the timetable up and try V tek to grow like a pro for real (anne sure makes it sound like ya gotta be a master mycologist to pull this off, so my confidence is a little shaky :tongue:). Just so I can compare it to my current results, in a head to head type scenario, what would be a fair comparison? If V tek is supposed to double my yield as compared to bulk, I need to know ratios. If I wanted to do V tek with lets say 4 quarts (which I believe would be 8 of the pp5 containers), then how much spawn and bulk sub would be comparable to that if I was to spawn at a ratio of 1:2? Of course everything would be done with a monoculture on agar, and G2G would be the means of expansion.

I really hope to get this started within the next two weeks. That should be enough time for me to prepare as I want to do this tek correctly and I will post my results, no matter what they may be. If your claims are correct, and if the method is not as much of a pain as I suspect, I might even stop "bulking". I am a curious cat and now need to see for myself if this is worth the fuss :wink:


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19176183 - 11/22/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

"anne sure makes it sound like ya gotta be a master mycologist to pull this off,"

not at all, just sane , competent, and have a PC.
tek is engineered to be less complex, not more complex.
ability to read, and not live in your moms basement, is a plus.


dont over think it,
just do it.
violet is trying to liberate you from odious bulk tub of trichs.

show some courage!

:rabble:


--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (11/22/13 07:29 PM)


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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: anne halonium]
    #19176257 - 11/22/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

LOL, I was just pointing out the inconsistent message that your rhetoric usually delivers. If I truly wanted to make an anti bulk message catch on, I would promote it as "noob friendly" and to "leave the bulk for the pros" :lol: Your usual message of "noob buckets" and "pro grain grows" kinda conveys the opposite. Might want to rethink that delivery a bit :wink:

Quote:

anne halonium said:
dont over think it,
just do it.
violet is trying to liberate you from odious bulk tub of trichs.




I plan to, though I really have never had the trich issues you seem to have. Maybe I will get some during my side by side run and it will convert my noob ass :lmafo:

All joking aside, I will give this a shot. Been meaning to for a while, already got most of what I need. Even got the RGS, but for the purpose of a side by side I might just do rye berries. Just need to know some ratios so as to conduct a fair comparison. Don't want the bulk attempt to get too blown away :wink:


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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19176459 - 11/22/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Is 20-30 grams per PF cake average?  No no, far from it, 10 on a PF cake is great.


to be perfectly fair about that statement violet cakes are 2/3's verm and half the size


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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: cronicr]
    #19176595 - 11/22/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I just ordered some PP5 containers and I'll be starting this tek monday night.  I may go ahead and use my quart glass jars to start some rye seed with noc.  It's my first grow, so I'll be the perfect test case for "anyone can do it".  Thanks for the info!


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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: cronicr] * 1
    #19176636 - 11/22/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

violet is trying to liberate you from odious bulk tub of trichs.




God but I just love mixing vermiculite and shit and shredded coco husk in a bucket. It gets me all hot and bothered and stuff and then I just have to jerk off while thinking about shit buckets! Oh god I'll brb...

That's great and all that you feel that way. But what if we enjoy the process of working with our hands?  Mixing the ingredients up.  I love having giant tubs of mushrooms.

You see it as 'trying to liberate' us. 

But we've never been in bondage.

You see mushroom cultivation as a competition Anne.  That's why you piss people off.  We ENJOY the method we use and the odious work that's involved.

OH MY GOD.  That's why you see it that way.  It's because you've never had to work for anything in your life because you've always had money.  You have no appreciation for any kind of labor so you couldn't possibly understand the joy of actually putting effort into what you do.  You see making monotubs as 'odious' because you detest any kind of work, anything that may make your hands dirty.

Some of us actually enjoy that work.  I love the smell of coconut coir being pasteurized. I love the feeling in my hand while mixing it.  I love the exercise in patience of watching my grains slowly colonize.  Taking their time, being in no hurry.  Reminding me daily to not be in such a hurry in life.  I love the way the damn tub LOOKS when it's done fruiting. Each one is like a giant canvas and when it's finished it looks amazing.  Like a forest...  I love that and every step in the process that brought me to that forest.

The way you sell it, you make it sound like your new age is going to take away all the things I love about growing my mushrooms and turn it into a competition.  You always berate others for 'cheapening' the hobby that everyone deserves to enjoy even without a pressure cooker.

You reduce my love to an argument of numbers on paper. "This is cheaper, this is faster, this yields more per cubic meter."

You're the one who's cheapening this hobby and this community by telling people that the aspects they love about it are 'wrong' or 'undeserving' or 'inferior.'

That's the last thing we're going to need in the new age.

P.S.  Violet, I think your tek looks awesome.  I just like my big tub-o-mushrooms.  I also think Anne's ravings have done more to hurt your good name than open people up to your methods.  Can't wait to see what else you come up with.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


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