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Offlines240779
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Overpopulation
    #19173780 - 11/22/13 06:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Do you think it's ever going to get to the point where hoards of people are without food and shelter and literally begin to drop like flies?

edit By "shelter" I really mean simply being able to keep warm at night.


Edited by s240779 (11/22/13 06:38 AM)


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: s240779] * 2
    #19173792 - 11/22/13 06:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Inevitably. Depending on your definition of hordes, it's happened.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19173815 - 11/22/13 06:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Nope, it has been predicted that the population of earth will be steady at 10 billion people, for there growth will be very slow.

The reason is, almost every country (a good 90%+) has an average of 2 kids per family, which is just enough to replace the parents. Even the countries where family have 5 or 6 kids have seen a reduction in kids per family. In 50 years (if the trend continues), they should be around the same 2 kids per family average.

There's a TED video about it, but I forgot both the title and the name of the guy. It was a very well explained and interesting video.


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
    #19173821 - 11/22/13 06:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter] * 3
    #19173825 - 11/22/13 06:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.



We have no shortage of food, only a lack of proper distribution infrastructure.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter] * 1
    #19173841 - 11/22/13 07:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.




You could fit the entire population of earth in Canada and people woundn't be all that crowded. Food production is just a matter of how much food you want. We have fertilizers and plenty of land and earth. Food is not going to be a problem.

As for homes, not a problem either. You need resources, that's all. We are so far away from depleting the earth's resource that thinking that we are going to run out of them is ridiculous. The earth's mantle is 2800km thick and the deepest man made hole is 12 km... We have a whole lot of digging left to do


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil] * 1
    #19173846 - 11/22/13 07:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:

We have no shortage of food, only a lack of proper distribution infrastructure.




I tend to agree with this.  It seems that if/when food runs low, the price will increase.  As that happens more people will get involved in the "Food production" business.

Also, as Patal posted, the population of industrialized countries is growing slowly.  In fact, there was a recent TIME article about how the number of adults in the U.S. going "childless" was nearing an all-time high.


--------------------
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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
    #19173849 - 11/22/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.




You could fit the entire population of earth in Canada and people woundn't be all that crowded. Food production is just a matter of how much food you want. We have fertilizers and plenty of land and earth. Food is not going to be a problem.

As for homes, not a problem either. You need resources, that's all. We are so far away from depleting the earth's resource that thinking that we are going to run out of them is ridiculous. The earth's mantle is 2800km thick and the deepest man made hole is 12 km... We have a whole lot of digging left to do



Plus you know, like mars. We can possibly be on mars by the end of the century.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19173859 - 11/22/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.



We have no shortage of food, only a lack of proper distribution infrastructure.




:yesnod:  Hordes of people without shelter or food...this is already happening on our planet....


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: s240779] * 3
    #19173873 - 11/22/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If the rate of human population growth is not rapidly reduced and eventually reduced (so that we have less people each year rather than more) than we are all collectively doomed.

Imagine taking a fish tank of finite size and dropping one more fish in a day. At a certain point the fish will be crammed side by side, suffocating each other, and all the fish will die.

Technology can stall this for a certain amount of time by coming up with ever more sophisticated methods of food production etc, but inevitably it will reach a tipping point that will be disastrous.

The population has risen from 3 billion to 7 billion in 1-2 generation (aprox). It is estimated to rise to 9 billion by 2050.

This is one of the biggest and most pressing problems facing us.

We need to use policies such as family planning, education, free condoms, free safe and available abortions, tubal ligations, vasectomies, and child limitation policies to address this issue.

The only way infinite population growth can be sustained is if we become an interplanetary and interstellar species.

So thinkum chief big smokum.


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
    #19173897 - 11/22/13 07:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.




You could fit the entire population of earth in Canada and people woundn't be all that crowded. Food production is just a matter of how much food you want. We have fertilizers and plenty of land and earth. Food is not going to be a problem.




Crowding obviously isn't the problem, it's the added footprints of our consumption. Synthetic fertilizers aren't sustainable, we can farm the oceans for algae and eat that though, that'll give us a bit more food to play with. Desertification and the lack of freshwater for irrigation are serious problems today, never mind twenty years from now with a billion more people on the planet.

Quote:


Moonshoe said:
We need to use policies such as family planning, education, free condoms, free safe and available abortions, tubal ligations, vasectomies, and child limitation policies to address this issue.



:thumbup:


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19173929 - 11/22/13 07:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.




You could fit the entire population of earth in Canada and people woundn't be all that crowded. Food production is just a matter of how much food you want. We have fertilizers and plenty of land and earth. Food is not going to be a problem.




Crowding obviously isn't the problem, it's the added footprints of our consumption. Synthetic fertilizers aren't sustainable, we can farm the oceans for algae and eat that though, that'll give us a bit more food to play with. Desertification and the lack of freshwater for irrigation are serious problems today, never mind twenty years from now with a billion more people on the planet.

Quote:


Moonshoe said:
We need to use policies such as family planning, education, free condoms, free safe and available abortions, tubal ligations, vasectomies, and child limitation policies to address this issue.



:thumbup:



Nitrogen fertilizer can be synthesized using only energy and air.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19173950 - 11/22/13 07:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

not a problem. i'm sure none of you here will be taking on the capacity for solving any of the world's shortages of anything; but it won't of a major concern to anyone here (i mean, by lieu of actually having to deal with any of the proposed problems here) for a long while.


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19173957 - 11/22/13 07:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
not a problem. i'm sure none of you here will be taking on the capacity for solving any of the world's shortages of anything; but it won't of a major concern to anyone here (i mean, by lieu of actually having to deal with any of the proposed problems here) for a long while.



Well no, it probably won't be a concern for anyone here, because most members here are middle class people from industrialized countries and so will probably at most have to deal with nuisances like increased food prices and an influx of immigrants from places that do have to deal with it.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19173960 - 11/22/13 08:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

also, i said, no one here will probably do anything about any of said problems anyways... even if they went to go live in Africa. they'd still be just hanging out... playing Nintendo.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #19173963 - 11/22/13 08:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.




You could fit the entire population of earth in Canada and people woundn't be all that crowded. Food production is just a matter of how much food you want. We have fertilizers and plenty of land and earth. Food is not going to be a problem.

As for homes, not a problem either. You need resources, that's all. We are so far away from depleting the earth's resource that thinking that we are going to run out of them is ridiculous. The earth's mantle is 2800km thick and the deepest man made hole is 12 km... We have a whole lot of digging left to do




You can't just put fertilizer in the dirt and expect endless harvests. All the best farmland in the world has had highly nutrient rich soil before farming started. Fertilizers are more like a supplement for the soil. Fact of the matter is, in the current drought, most of our current farmland is in the shitter and in the coming years we'll have trouble supporting our population as is, unless we get some serious weather changes.


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19173967 - 11/22/13 08:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
also, i said, no one here will probably do anything about any of said problems anyways... even if they went to go live in Africa. they'd still be just hanging out... playing Nintendo.



Well I haven't produced any new humans. What have you done?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19173986 - 11/22/13 08:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

acknowledged that i am not going to sacrifice my livelihood for the notion of a better planet. that i must work indefinitely to help "save" the human race from it's eventual extinction; to be a productive member of society... is just wrong. plus, i keep my little planet killer in my pants for the most part. i don't wanna contribute to global warming either! (plus, i can't seem to laid anyways.)


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19173989 - 11/22/13 08:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Problems don't exist because I don't wanna bother




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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19173990 - 11/22/13 08:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.

Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19173992 - 11/22/13 08:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no, problems exist, i'm just predicting that none of you are going to do anything about it; and even if one or two of you did, it wouldn't be enough.

:shrug: i'm not saying problems don't exist, don't put words in my mouth, now c'mon.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19173993 - 11/22/13 08:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.

Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.



no one is going to listen to you. no one.


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InvisibleFrozenHappiness
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #19174038 - 11/22/13 08:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Nope, it has been predicted that the population of earth will be steady at 10 billion people, for there growth will be very slow.

The reason is, almost every country (a good 90%+) has an average of 2 kids per family, which is just enough to replace the parents. Even the countries where family have 5 or 6 kids have seen a reduction in kids per family. In 50 years (if the trend continues), they should be around the same 2 kids per family average.

There's a TED video about it, but I forgot both the title and the name of the guy. It was a very well explained and interesting video.





I agree with this if two condiotions are met:

1.) If "modern" western societies, and the societies around the world that model themselves after these western societies stop being entirely consumer driven.

2.) If the standard of living greatly improves for third world areas.

If those conditions aren't me I'm not too worried about it. All populations are self limiting regardless. Once (if) we get past carrying capacity the average health of the population will decline due to less than ideal nutrition. That coupled with the crowding increases the incidences of novel forms of disease. Then the majority of the poor in the most crowded of areas kick the bucket.


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #19174140 - 11/22/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.

Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.





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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19174145 - 11/22/13 09:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.

Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.



no one is going to listen to you. no one.




Actually I have seen documentaries and news programs showing how our (younger) generations are increasingly choosing not to have children, and birth rates in developed nations are declining rapidly. So my views on not having kids are actually already fairly common and the trend is towards more and more people sharing my views.

There is something called a population Kuznet's curve which shows that after a certain point of industrialization less and less people choose to have children and they choose to have fewer and fewer children. Large families are the norm in poor, underdeveloped countries but small families or no children are the norm in well educated, well developed industrialized nations.

It has also been proven that the more well educated a person is , the longer they wait to have children and the fewer children they have.

Having lots of children is directly correlated to being uneducated, having few or no children is directly correlated with having a high degree of education.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19174148 - 11/22/13 09:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

the Earth, not a player in the Natural Selection game.

you know, we should all just strive to kill every single viable form of life on the planet, other then plants... because the concept of "Earth" is just that important.


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #19174157 - 11/22/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Now you're just being cranky. I don't see what's so important about squeezing as many humans as possible onto the earth. I'm all for the earth being filled with life, it's just sad to see it being increasingly just one species and the things they find useful.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19174167 - 11/22/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.

Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.



no one is going to listen to you. no one.




Actually I have seen documentaries and news programs showing how our (younger) generations are increasingly choosing not to have children, and birth rates in developed nations are declining rapidly. So my views on not having kids are actually already fairly common and the trend is towards more and more people sharing my views.

There is something called a population Kuznet's curve which shows that after a certain point of industrialization less and less people choose to have children and they choose to have fewer and fewer children. Large families are the norm in poor, underdeveloped countries but small families or no children are the norm in well educated, well developed industrialized nations.

It has also been proven that the more well educated a person is , the longer they wait to have children and the fewer children they have.

Having lots of children is directly correlated to being uneducated, having few or no children is directly correlated with having a high degree of education.



the distinction here being between "lots of children" and "having a child".

education has no bearing on what humans will inevitably do either. anyone who waits to have a children is a: simple lucky or b: is too busy or of ill-regard for having children so early in their life. nothing to do with smarts, at least on a daily basis.

and the reason people have less children in a more industrialized society is because they feel less back breaking work, they feel it's less important to contribute to "societies building" because it's already built; so having kids is "less important". also the fact that people have more endeavors to concern themselves with in the long run, because their is more options, in an industrialized society, to widdle at.

oh and pop culture can explain the reasons for young people not having kids as often... oh and young people have different rationalizations for spending their time on less abject endeavors and creations, because of what is culturally accepted as the status quo.

it has nothing but nothing to do with a documentary about some spicey nonsense. it has nothing to do with people "waking up".

it's happenstance.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19174179 - 11/22/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Now you're just being cranky. I don't see what's so important about squeezing as many humans as possible onto the earth. I'm all for the earth being filled with life, it's just sad to see it being increasingly just one species and the things they find useful.



nothing is good or important about pumping out humans at an exponential rate. just saying, it won't freaking stop because you want it to, or because the world is gonna implode. until we get the absolute word from authorities that we need to stop making babies, no one will stop... and that won't happen for awhile, since people are quite aware that it's not the end of the world yet. despite other popular beliefs.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
    #19174196 - 11/22/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:

You could fit the entire population of earth in Canada and people woundn't be all that crowded. Food production is just a matter of how much food you want. We have fertilizers and plenty of land and earth. Food is not going to be a problem.

As for homes, not a problem either. You need resources, that's all. We are so far away from depleting the earth's resource that thinking that we are going to run out of them is ridiculous. The earth's mantle is 2800km thick and the deepest man made hole is 12 km... We have a whole lot of digging left to do



All of that depends on oil, however, which isn't in infinite supply.  When that is gone, food production will reduce dramatically as well as transport of food that is produced.  The world can't sustain 10 billion people without oil.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19174199 - 11/22/13 09:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.

Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.



no one is going to listen to you. no one.




Actually I have seen documentaries and news programs showing how our (younger) generations are increasingly choosing not to have children, and birth rates in developed nations are declining rapidly. So my views on not having kids are actually already fairly common and the trend is towards more and more people sharing my views.

There is something called a population Kuznet's curve which shows that after a certain point of industrialization less and less people choose to have children and they choose to have fewer and fewer children. Large families are the norm in poor, underdeveloped countries but small families or no children are the norm in well educated, well developed industrialized nations.

It has also been proven that the more well educated a person is , the longer they wait to have children and the fewer children they have.

Having lots of children is directly correlated to being uneducated, having few or no children is directly correlated with having a high degree of education.



the distinction here being between "lots of children" and "having a child".

education has no bearing on what humans will inevitably do either. anyone who waits to have a children is a: simple lucky or b: is too busy or of ill-regard for having children so early in their life. nothing to do with smarts, at least on a daily basis.

and the reason people have less children in a more industrialized society is because they feel less back breaking work, they feel it's less important to contribute to "societies building" because it's already built; so having kids is "less important". also the fact that people have more endeavors to concern themselves with in the long run, because their is more options, in an industrialized society, to widdle at.

oh and pop culture can explain the reasons for young people not having kids as often... oh and young people have different rationalizations for spending their time on less abject endeavors and creations, because of what is culturally accepted as the status quo.

it has nothing but nothing to do with a documentary about some spicey nonsense. it has nothing to do with people "waking up".

it's coincidence.




Actually Moonshoe is quite right in his assessment. People are having a lot less children than in the past and it is directly correlated with education/industriazation and wealth. Like I posted earlier, most countries are headed towards 2 children per family which would simply replace their parents. Guess which countries still have high rates of children per family? The poorest in Africa. The answer why is quite simple. The average life expectancy is 45 years old and they have a high birth mortality rate. It's a numbers games pretty much.

Earth's population will stabilize at some point and it is expected to happen between 2050 and 2100


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
    #19174206 - 11/22/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it all depends on how you look at it.

no one is "just doing it" because "it's considered the right thing to do".

no one.

no one's taken a class on "preserving the planet's population 101". it's happenstance that people are having less children now. it's pop culture and the fact of people having less time to devote to having children, because of other less abject endeavors such as "school" "making money" "hobbies" ect ect...

no one told the kiddies "hey have less kids, it'll be good for the environment".

undoubtedly there is people who consider these facts, but hardly "everyone who is having less kids."


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: s240779] * 1
    #19174208 - 11/22/13 09:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Overpopulation is a myth whose doomsday has been rescheduled over and over since the early 1800's. The Isle of Man is 221 sq miles, if you put 4 people to every sq yard you could fit in 12.1 Billion people. Population of the Earth is 7 Billion. You could fit them all in with room to spare. I remember reading once that every single person in the world can fit within the state of Texas with 1000 sq ft each of living space.



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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19174211 - 11/22/13 09:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Patlal said:

You could fit the entire population of earth in Canada and people woundn't be all that crowded. Food production is just a matter of how much food you want. We have fertilizers and plenty of land and earth. Food is not going to be a problem.

As for homes, not a problem either. You need resources, that's all. We are so far away from depleting the earth's resource that thinking that we are going to run out of them is ridiculous. The earth's mantle is 2800km thick and the deepest man made hole is 12 km... We have a whole lot of digging left to do



All of that depends on oil, however, which isn't in infinite supply.  When that is gone, food production will reduce dramatically as well as transport of food that is produced.  The world can't sustain 10 billion people without oil.




Oil... An interesting problem to have. First off, let's takes a few seconds to realize how extremely lucky we were that an asteroid crashed on earth to kill every life form on it millions of years ago. Had it not happen, oil would not exist.

Oil is easily replacable with electricity. It just a matter of developing the technology. But the problem is, oil is easy. So easy that it makes it economically difficult to develop alternative technology. Capitalism is hanging on to oil like a baby sucking from his mother's tit.

If you want to eliminate oil, you'll have to find a way to make a couple of people multibillionaires in alternative energies. Best of luck to you


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #19174216 - 11/22/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:

Oil is easily replacable with electricity.



If by "easily" you mean by developing sources and storage technology that are at least 10 times as efficient as what we have today, sure.

Everything is easy if we assume the technology will exist.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal] * 2
    #19174217 - 11/22/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

We had six kids and now have 11 grandkids.  Wouldn't trade it for all of the political correctness in the world.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: mpd]
    #19174227 - 11/22/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mpd said:
We had six kids and now have 11 grandkids.  Wouldn't trade it for all of the political correctness in the world.



Think of how much more money you could have though if you didn't have any kids!


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19174231 - 11/22/13 09:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

think of much useless trinkets you could've had with all that money!


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: gzuf]
    #19174239 - 11/22/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gzuf said:
Overpopulation is a myth whose doomsday has been rescheduled over and over since the early 1800's. The Isle of Man is 221 sq miles, if you put 4 people to every sq yard you could fit in 12.1 Billion people. Population of the Earth is 7 Billion. You could fit them all in with room to spare. I remember reading once that every single person in the world can fit within the state of Texas with 1000 sq ft each of living space.



I don't think anyone has claimed we will ever run out of space. That's obviously not the problem.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19174250 - 11/22/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
We need to use policies such as family planning, education, free condoms, free safe and available abortions, tubal ligations, vasectomies, and child limitation policies to address this issue.




Sounds terrible, even if you imagine overpopulation to be real. Well I mean we already have all of those besides child limitation and child limitation is a proven failure aka China - Their govt quickly noticed rich people would just pay the fine and have their kids willy nilly while the poor/middle class folks were forced to obey the law. And now they have 37 million more men than women.

Quote:

A 2001 report exposed that a quota of 20,000 abortions and sterilizations was set for Huaiji County in Guangdong Province in one year due to reported disregard of the one-child policy. The effort included using portable ultrasound devices to identify abortion candidates in remote villages. Earlier reports also showed that women as far along as 8.5 months pregnant were forced to abort by injection of saline solution. There were also reports of women in their ninth month of pregnancy, or already in labour, having their children killed whilst in the birth canal or immediately after birth.

China's family planning programs contribute to infanticide. "The ‘one-child’ policy has also led to what Amartya Sen first called “Missing Women,” or the 100 million girls “missing” from the populations of China (and other developing countries) as a result of female infanticide, abandonment, and neglect"




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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19174254 - 11/22/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.




But neither does a shortage of homes and food imply that there is overpopulation.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: DieCommie]
    #19174262 - 11/22/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:lobstersauce:


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19174276 - 11/22/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

For the last time, stop trying to make this thread about döners!


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19174281 - 11/22/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
That's obviously not the problem.




Is food the problem?



Water then?

Quote:

Would water be a problem, though? It's calculated that we need 350 billion liters of water per day to properly hydrate 6.8 billion people. It seems like a lot, but the Columbia River alone could produce that amount in less than a day. By the way, the Columbia River is the U.S.’s fourth largest river. So, again, that leaves the rest of the world’s water supply open and ready to serve. So, we’re not really overpopulated. We just need to be better at managing our resources.
Read more at http://www.omg-facts.com/Interesting/The-Entire-World-Population-Could-Fit-In/55348#wdQROiA3lor41ccJ.99




Well what is it?


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: DieCommie]
    #19174282 - 11/22/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
But neither does a shortage of homes and food imply that there is overpopulation.



It certainly does when we use the term with respect to every other species.  I don't see why it wouldn't with humans.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19174302 - 11/22/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
For the last time, stop trying to make this thread about döners!



:moneyeyes: but why not? we're all doomed, might as well enjoy a Döner before we all die!


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #19174311 - 11/22/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
But neither does a shortage of homes and food imply that there is overpopulation.



It certainly does when we use the term with respect to every other species.  I don't see why it wouldn't with humans.




It certainly does?  How do you figure that one?

If a group of Orca cannot feed themselves you think there necessarily must be an Orca overpopulation problem?  I think there may be a Orca culture problem.  Some Orca are fine to eat fish, others prefer mammals.  Some are effective at hunting fish, others are effective at hunting mammals.  For the most part their cultural preferences align with their local availability.  But conflict and change disrupt this and their cultures need to adapt, or they die.  Some adapt, some die.

I've never seen or read about any famine or mass homelessness that was caused by overpopulation.  Rather, they are inventively caused by wars and dysfunctional political, religious and economic systems.  Crappy culture, not overpopulation, is the cause of extreme poverty and hunger.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19174314 - 11/22/13 09:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
But neither does a shortage of homes and food imply that there is overpopulation.



It certainly does when we use the term with respect to every other species.  I don't see why it wouldn't with humans.



So a drought means deer are overpopulated?


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19174413 - 11/22/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

o·ver·pop·u·la·tion  (vr-ppy-lshn)
n.
Excessive population of an area to the point of overcrowding, depletion of natural resources, or environmental deterioration.

overpopulation  (vr-ppy-lshn)

The population of an environment by a particular species in excess of the environment's carrying capacity. The effects of overpopulation can include the depletion of resources, environmental deterioration, and the prevalence of famine and disease.




Seems to me like scarcity of food and housing amounts to "depletion of natural resources"


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19174419 - 11/22/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

humans are good at making food and housing, so nah, no problem.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19174613 - 11/22/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The wealthiest few people in the world consume more resources than millions of the world's poor, so if the gross over consumption of the few could be curtailed the earth could sustain more people.

However, both population and consumption are problematic, and for the ecosphere to be preserved both overconsumption and overpopulation need to addressed.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19174626 - 11/22/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
The wealthiest few people in the world consume more resources than millions of the world's poor,



Please cite a source for this claim.  Thanks in advance.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19174825 - 11/22/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I am pretty sure humanity will face much greater problems than overpopulation.

20 billion? Now there's a problem. 10 to 12? Manageable

Now let's see, what's the first essential resource that could be depleted soon?

Water: Hell no, worse comes to worse, filter ocean water

Space: Earth is 29% land and only 1% is covered is inhabited

Food: It's practically unlimited. Worse comes to worse, we only occupy 1% so that's a whole lot of spaceto farm

Iron/Aluminum/copper, metal in general: Unlimited. We have mined like 0.000001% of the planet

Wood: This is one that is at risk, but I doubt it would happen

Oil: We are aware that we will run out and we are already taking steps to replace it

A clean supply of Oxygen: Well there's your problem. We better start cleaning up our mess


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
    #19174893 - 11/22/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Water: Hell no, worse comes to worse, filter ocean water


Desalination uses a lot of electricity.  Where's it going to come from after fossil fuels are gone?
Quote:



Space: Earth is 29% land and only 1% is covered is inhabited


Misleading.  Not all of the earth's land is habitable, and even less is habitable without significant energy resources...again...in a post-fossil fuel world, where's that energy coming from?
Quote:



Food: It's practically unlimited. Worse comes to worse, we only occupy 1% so that's a whole lot of spaceto farm


You still have the issue of climate to grow crops and energy for the equipment to do so.  In a world without oil, transport of food and mechanized growing of it will be much more difficult
Quote:



Oil: We are aware that we will run out and we are already taking steps to replace it


Lol...what steps are those?


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19174895 - 11/22/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

replacing oil with alternative fuels, of course!


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19174905 - 11/22/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Water: Hell no, worse comes to worse, filter ocean water


Desalination uses a lot of electricity.  Where's it going to come from after fossil fuels are gone?
Quote:



Space: Earth is 29% land and only 1% is covered is inhabited


Misleading.  Not all of the earth's land is habitable, and even less is habitable without significant energy resources...again...in a post-fossil fuel world, where's that energy coming from?
Quote:



Food: It's practically unlimited. Worse comes to worse, we only occupy 1% so that's a whole lot of spaceto farm


You still have the issue of climate to grow crops and energy for the equipment to do so.  In a world without oil, transport of food and mechanized growing of it will be much more difficult
Quote:



Oil: We are aware that we will run out and we are already taking steps to replace it


Lol...what steps are those?



Someones never heard of renewable energy.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19174911 - 11/22/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Who hasn't?  I generate many megawatt/hours of power every year with solar panels...

Nonetheless, Solar, wind, geothermal, and nuclear cannot replace oil and coal at current consumption levels, and it hasn't a shot in hell of doing it at future consumption levels.

Unless/until new technology is developed for the generation and storage of electricity, we've no chance of replacing fossil fuel.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19174928 - 11/22/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Who hasn't?  I generate many megawatt/hours of power every year with solar panels...

Nonetheless, Solar, wind, geothermal, and nuclear cannot replace oil and coal at current consumption levels, and it hasn't a shot in hell of doing it at future consumption levels.

Unless/until new technology is developed for the generation and storage of electricity, we've no chance of replacing fossil fuel.



New technology is under constant development and batteries can store more power every year. But for arguments sake lets say we have an unlimited amount of cheap electricity to work with. Then we could use one of several currently existing technologies to synthesize fuel form the air and electricity that could power engines. This process would be carbon neutral.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil] * 1
    #19175084 - 11/22/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's a big assumption, and batteries are still nowhere near at a point where they could be used to power electric commercial flights.  They're not likely to get there in the next 50 years either.

I think you're dreaming here.  We're a long way off from replacing oil with an alternative energy.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19175118 - 11/22/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's a big assumption, and batteries are still nowhere near at a point where they could be used to power electric commercial flights.  They're not likely to get there in the next 50 years either.

I think you're dreaming here.  We're a long way off from replacing oil with an alternative energy.




50 years?

You think you can predict there won't be a breakthrough in battery technology in the next 50 years?

50 years ago, a computer was the size of a house. Now we have them absolutely everywhere and they are smaller than credit cards.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19175122 - 11/22/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Commercial flights are not exactly a necessity of life though.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: psi]
    #19175129 - 11/22/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

comparing "Sizes" in the age of exponential technological increase. hehehe


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19175135 - 11/22/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's a big assumption, and batteries are still nowhere near at a point where they could be used to power electric commercial flights.  They're not likely to get there in the next 50 years either.

I think you're dreaming here.  We're a long way off from replacing oil with an alternative energy.



Again with a good supply of electricity, you can make liquid fuels like isobutanol, or methanol, other liquid fuels, or gaseous fuels like hydrogen, methane, propane, etc. This bypasses the need for battery technology in transportation.

Although our solar cells aren't efficient enough to do it, solar energy could easily supply all the energy we get from nonrenewable sources. Its all a matter of time and research.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
    #19175149 - 11/22/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Battery technology hasn't improved much over the last 50 years, though.  It would have to improve probably 100-1000 times as much in the next 50 years as it did in the last 50.

I'm not saying it's impossible..I said it was not likely.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
    #19175159 - 11/22/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:

Oil: We are aware that we will run out and we are already taking steps to replace it




We are no where close being prepared for the oil prices that will be present in the next decade or so. America's economy is about to get fucked in the ass. Can't say we don't deserve it:canthelpbutlaugh:


Edited by i like cow poo (11/22/13 02:56 PM)


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: psi]
    #19175164 - 11/22/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Commercial flights are not exactly a necessity of life though.



Neither is refrigeration or running water if you get down to it. 

I don't see a world happening where 10 billion people live accepting that they're going to have to give up conveniences they have today in order for more of us to stay on the planet.

On the contrary, as fossil fuel gets more scarce, I see people fighting each other for the last drop of it, and reducing the population far below its current level.


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Offlinei like cow poo
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19175190 - 11/22/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.

Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.



I fuckin agree. Goddamn you think like an ecologist! Bravo good sir.
Guess what I got my nuts clipped:cookiemonster:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19175223 - 11/22/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it's ok, you can always correct the surgery when you end up wanting a kid.

PS: hot AV is HAWT.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19175228 - 11/22/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.

Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.



I fuckin agree. Goddamn you think like an ecologist! Bravo good sir.
Guess what I got my nuts clipped:cookiemonster:




Both of you idiots have been severely brainwashed, and I pity you.

If you both truly felt that way, please go off yourselves right now. Surely just consuming electricity and food daily is just as "harmful" as having a child would be.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Thulean] * 1
    #19175238 - 11/22/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Of course not.  The child will eat food and consume electricity daily for his/her whole life.

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
it's ok, you can always correct the surgery when you end up wanting a kid.




This is the first thing people say when they hear I have a vasectomy.  My response is always, "Yeah, I had someone cut into my nuts, cut my tubes, burn the ends shut, then sew me up so they could swell to the size of a cantaloupe....just so that I can undo it later."


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Thulean]
    #19175240 - 11/22/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

they are of a different school of thought on the matters of "what a child means to a person".

before they've had any kids, they will presume that all kids are basically units of distractability, and/or units "resource wasters".

it's a weird sort of idealism, that is quite shocking. considering none of them know what it's like to have a child.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19175244 - 11/22/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
This is the first thing people say when they hear I have a vasectomy.  My response is always, "Yeah, I had someone cut into my nuts, cut my tubes, burn the ends shut, then sew me up so they could swell to the size of a cantaloupe....just so that I can undo it later."



LOL, i was only half-serious. my point was that it's alot of trouble to get back your juice; more trouble then it is to stitch up your gear.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #19175246 - 11/22/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

And people with children are so blinded by their biological connection to their spawn that they are unable to see how truly useless their offspring is for many years.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19175250 - 11/22/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:

LOL, i was only half-serious. my point was that it's alot of trouble to get back your juice; more trouble then it is to stitch up your gear.



It's actually quite easy for them to extract sperm for invitro, though.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19175259 - 11/22/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
they are of a different school of thought on the matters of "what a child means to a person".

before they've had any kids, they will presume that all kids are basically units of distractability, and/or units "resource wasters".

it's a weird sort of idealism, that is quite shocking. considering none of them know what it's like to have a child.



Your brain changes in a lot of ways when you have a child. Makes sense, because the species wouldn't last long if people were throttling those noise making poop machines to death.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19175262 - 11/22/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

well, people want to feel fulfilled, right? so have a kid, raise 'em to be YOU 2.0 and you get a new best bud...! for a increment of their life, and then they start hating you and visa versa. YAY
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:

LOL, i was only half-serious. my point was that it's alot of trouble to get back your juice; more trouble then it is to stitch up your gear.



It's actually quite easy for them to extract sperm for invitro, though.



yeah, that's absolutely true. didn't think of that. kinda makes the whole argument moot. :whistling:


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19175265 - 11/22/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:

Your brain changes in a lot of ways when you have a child. Makes sense, because the species wouldn't last long if people were throttling those noise making poop machines to death.



LOL, indeed.

"how can i get some sleep1!?! honey...?"



"ahh here it is".


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19175266 - 11/22/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It is so utterly pathetic to not want to bring life back into this world. Honestly people who are intelligent enough to think to themselves "hey the world is pretty bad, maybe I shouldn't bring another thing into it"

ARE EXACTLY THE TYPE OF PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE RAISING CHILDREN. Also known as, empathetic and intelligent human beings who can look around them and philosophize. These are the people who need to breed, not the idiots who will never question themselves, or even contemplate what is the right thing to do. And these are the types of people who birth way too much.

It's so sad what has happened to todays "men". The thought of having a family is seen as Beta? Are you fucking joking? The only Alpha thing a man can do in life is raise a loving family.

I attribute these male masses of confused, reward seeking sluts to the brainwashing the tube shits out.

You got a vasectomy not because you wanted to, but because you thought it was the cool thing to do. I guarantee later in life you will feel so empty, useless, and sad.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Thulean]
    #19175274 - 11/22/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thulean said:
It is so utterly pathetic to not want to bring life back into this world. Honestly people who are intelligent enough to think to themselves "hey the world is pretty bad, maybe I shouldn't bring another thing into it"

ARE EXACTLY THE TYPE OF PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE RAISING CHILDREN. Also known as, empathetic and intelligent human beings who can look around them and philosophize. These are the people who need to breed, not the idiots who will never question themselves, or even contemplate what is the right thing to do. And these are the types of people who birth way too much.

It's so sad what has happened to todays "men". The thought of having a family is seen as Beta? Are you fucking joking? The only Alpha thing a man can do in life is raise a loving family.

I attribute these male masses of confused, reward seeking sluts to the brainwashing the tube shits out.

You got a vasectomy not because you wanted to, but because you thought it was the cool thing to do. I guarantee later in life you will feel so empty, useless, and sad.



:doublefacepalm: you make a few good points, but you completely ruined it at the end


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19175278 - 11/22/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
it's ok, you can always correct the surgery when you end up wanting a kid.

PS: hot AV is HAWT.



I will NEVER have an expensive child in this fucked up world. Even if I did it'd be adopted.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Thulean] * 2
    #19175286 - 11/22/13 03:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Dude, you sound major butthurt.
Does me not wanting to contribute to this disease, called humanity, leave your butthole sore?:canthelpbutlaugh:


Edited by i like cow poo (11/22/13 03:31 PM)


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Thulean] * 1
    #19175290 - 11/22/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thulean said:
It's so sad what has happened to todays "men". The thought of having a family is seen as Beta? Are you fucking joking? The only Alpha thing a man can do in life is raise a loving family.

I attribute these male masses of confused, reward seeking sluts to the brainwashing the tube shits out.

You got a vasectomy not because you wanted to, but because you thought it was the cool thing to do. I guarantee later in life you will feel so empty, useless, and sad.




:rofl2:  What's with pressuring other people to have children?  It's so bizarre to me.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19175293 - 11/22/13 03:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

psi said:
Commercial flights are not exactly a necessity of life though.



Neither is refrigeration or running water if you get down to it. 

I don't see a world happening where 10 billion people live accepting that they're going to have to give up conveniences they have today in order for more of us to stay on the planet.

On the contrary, as fossil fuel gets more scarce, I see people fighting each other for the last drop of it, and reducing the population far below its current level.




I'd guess most of the world's population would have considerable difficulty affording a commercial flight today. In the area of personal transport, there's a lot of room to make vehicles lighter and more efficient. Vehicles weighing thousands of pounds are used to transport single occupants a lot of the time today, but as time goes on more and more people will only be able to fuel a smaller vehicle. Some austerity measures are basically totally painless, I sure don't miss using inefficient incandescent lights for example.

There probably will be some big wars in our future for sure though.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19175301 - 11/22/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
it's ok, you can always correct the surgery when you end up wanting a kid.

PS: hot AV is HAWT.



I will NEVER have an expensive child in this fucked up world. Even if I did it'd be adopted.



smart move.

i still don't see how you can say a child is merely an expense. i mean, so are you, right? so why don't you just go out back and you know... for a good cause? :shrug:


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19175320 - 11/22/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

aversion to suicide is not a survival mechanism I wish to go against. :hug:
I am selfish, just not as much as a lot of people that happen to be gluttonous assholes.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Thulean] * 1
    #19175323 - 11/22/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thulean said:
You got a vasectomy not because you wanted to, but because you thought it was the cool thing to do. I guarantee later in life you will feel so empty, useless, and sad.



I got it at 24, and I'm 43 now with a wife who is 33.  I think I've pretty much passed the point where I'm going to regret it.  In fact, every time I hear a screaming child, I think how wonderful it is not to have one.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19175326 - 11/22/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

people are gluttonous assholes for having a kid? so you're for abortion rights, i take it.

i don't know how having a kid is making anyone a gluttonous asshole.


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Thulean] * 3
    #19175333 - 11/22/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thulean said:
It's so sad what has happened to todays "men". The thought of having a family is seen as Beta? Are you fucking joking? The only Alpha thing a man can do in life is raise a loving family.





You seriously believe in "alphas" and "betas"?


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19175352 - 11/22/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i don't know if he does. i'm pretty certain he's entertaining the idea, though, based on other users posts and other people's opinions on having kids, that he has witnessed in his experience.

the ideal that "kids are somehow for gluttonous assholes or idiots" is why he entertains this concept.

i could be wrong though.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19175417 - 11/22/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

glutinous assholes was referring to people who drive big SUVS and generally don't try or give one shit about nature.  Its hard to explain in a few sentences but basically the classic American stereotype that many Europeans think of when they think of an American. (not saying all americans are the stereotype)
People who knowingly bring a child into the world that they know they can't raise properly and will most likely just be another wasteful fuck addicted to junk food and money is just one example.


Edited by i like cow poo (11/22/13 04:07 PM)


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19175424 - 11/22/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

oh, well, my mistake. whenever i see an SUV i LOL.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19175569 - 11/22/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.

Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.





So obviously true. Every less person is one less person using resources. The new trend of people putting their heads in the sand and pretending that resources are not being over exploited and the earth isn't being polluted is really wild. It's astonishing to me that something so incredibly simple is so deeply misunderstood. It's like arguing with people who say two plus two is five.


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You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Thulean] * 1
    #19175590 - 11/22/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thulean said:
It is so utterly pathetic to not want to bring life back into this world. Honestly people who are intelligent enough to think to themselves "hey the world is pretty bad, maybe I shouldn't bring another thing into it"

ARE EXACTLY THE TYPE OF PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE RAISING CHILDREN. Also known as, empathetic and intelligent human beings who can look around them and philosophize. These are the people who need to breed, not the idiots who will never question themselves, or even contemplate what is the right thing to do. And these are the types of people who birth way too much.

It's so sad what has happened to todays "men". The thought of having a family is seen as Beta? Are you fucking joking? The only Alpha thing a man can do in life is raise a loving family.

I attribute these male masses of confused, reward seeking sluts to the brainwashing the tube shits out.

You got a vasectomy not because you wanted to, but because you thought it was the cool thing to do. I guarantee later in life you will feel so empty, useless, and sad.



Why would I ever want to throw hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain to potentially raise a child that may or may not turn out. I think I would rather use the money to travel further my education and enjoy life. I have no desire to be a slave to a tiny person for 20 years fuck that.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19175596 - 11/22/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Thulean said:
It is so utterly pathetic to not want to bring life back into this world. Honestly people who are intelligent enough to think to themselves "hey the world is pretty bad, maybe I shouldn't bring another thing into it"

ARE EXACTLY THE TYPE OF PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE RAISING CHILDREN. Also known as, empathetic and intelligent human beings who can look around them and philosophize. These are the people who need to breed, not the idiots who will never question themselves, or even contemplate what is the right thing to do. And these are the types of people who birth way too much.

It's so sad what has happened to todays "men". The thought of having a family is seen as Beta? Are you fucking joking? The only Alpha thing a man can do in life is raise a loving family.

I attribute these male masses of confused, reward seeking sluts to the brainwashing the tube shits out.

You got a vasectomy not because you wanted to, but because you thought it was the cool thing to do. I guarantee later in life you will feel so empty, useless, and sad.



Why would I ever want to throw hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain to potentially raise a child that may or may not turn out. I think I would rather use the money to travel further my education and enjoy life. I have no desire to be a slave to a tiny person for 20 years fuck that.



Your brain will literally force you to love them.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19175610 - 11/22/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Thulean said:
It is so utterly pathetic to not want to bring life back into this world. Honestly people who are intelligent enough to think to themselves "hey the world is pretty bad, maybe I shouldn't bring another thing into it"

ARE EXACTLY THE TYPE OF PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE RAISING CHILDREN. Also known as, empathetic and intelligent human beings who can look around them and philosophize. These are the people who need to breed, not the idiots who will never question themselves, or even contemplate what is the right thing to do. And these are the types of people who birth way too much.

It's so sad what has happened to todays "men". The thought of having a family is seen as Beta? Are you fucking joking? The only Alpha thing a man can do in life is raise a loving family.

I attribute these male masses of confused, reward seeking sluts to the brainwashing the tube shits out.

You got a vasectomy not because you wanted to, but because you thought it was the cool thing to do. I guarantee later in life you will feel so empty, useless, and sad.



Why would I ever want to throw hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain to potentially raise a child that may or may not turn out. I think I would rather use the money to travel further my education and enjoy life. I have no desire to be a slave to a tiny person for 20 years fuck that.



Your brain will literally force you to love them.



Exactly why I will not put myself in that position in the first place. I will follow Enlils example and get a vasectomy.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19175755 - 11/22/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thulean, your logic fails miserably. how about the smart people make a difference and actually give something back to the world themselves?
at this point reproducing is going to make life harder on everyone and the environment in the future. oh well i just pray for a quick and painless extinction. that way humanity can preserve the little dignity and true love it has managed to maintain:nicesmile:


Edited by i like cow poo (11/22/13 06:46 PM)


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19175818 - 11/22/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

LOL, people who have kids are idiots.


LOL, people who think that people who have kids are idiots, are idiots.

zero-sum game.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19176025 - 11/22/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The whole point is we're an idiotic species that could live peacefully and prosperously. Instead we choose to live in constant conflict and competition:mypleasure:


Edited by i like cow poo (11/22/13 06:48 PM)


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19176145 - 11/22/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
oh, well, my mistake. whenever i see an SUV i LOL.



I love  my SUV, and when oil runs out, I'll convert it to electric power.


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19176148 - 11/22/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
The whole point is we're an idiotic species that could live peacefully and prosperously. Instead we choose to live in constant conflict and competition:mypleasure:




Yeah... we're human so no we can't live in peace and prosperity. There is no chance of that ever happening so saying it could happen is foolish.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: LordSenate]
    #19176152 - 11/22/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hippies:burke:


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19176239 - 11/22/13 07:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
oh, well, my mistake. whenever i see an SUV i LOL.



I love  my SUV, and when oil runs out, I'll convert it to electric power.



Do you literally drive a Hummer, or were you just joking around in that other thread when you mentioned that?


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: psi]
    #19176253 - 11/22/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I literally have an h1, but I dont drive it much.  When I move back to cali, I'll take it off road in the desert quite often.


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: psi]
    #19176254 - 11/22/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I drive a tank that is fueled by the blood of the innocent.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: LordSenate]
    #19176303 - 11/22/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's gotta be hard to find innocent these days.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19176310 - 11/22/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I literally have an h1, but I dont drive it much.  When I move back to cali, I'll take it off road in the desert quite often.



Cool, just wondering.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19176311 - 11/22/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I get most of it from babies.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: psi]
    #19176321 - 11/22/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I got the hummer bug about ten years ago when I restored a military hmmwv.  I loved driving that thing, but the h1 is far more comfortable to ride in.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19176335 - 11/22/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't care how comfortable they are.. The military hummers look pretty slick.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: LordSenate]
    #19176368 - 11/22/13 08:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It was fun as fuck, but the h1 is pretty much identical with better seats, air conditioning, and a sound system.  Plus the doors actually seal


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: s240779]
    #19176392 - 11/22/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Do you think it's ever going to get to the point where hoards of people are without food and shelter and literally begin to drop like flies?

edit By "shelter" I really mean simply being able to keep warm at night.




I think we'll eventually reach a point where we won't be able to produce enough food to meet demand. The population continues to skyrocket while crops are beginning to fail, food prices are already going up. It's gonna get worse. We think food stamps are a problem right now, but at some point there actually won't be enough food to feed everybody regardless to anybody's willingness to foot the bill.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
    #19176446 - 11/22/13 08:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard the military ones are absolutely horrible with fuel.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: LordSenate]
    #19176484 - 11/22/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The civilian ones aren't better.  They also have piss poor acceleration.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19177588 - 11/23/13 03:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
thulean, your logic fails miserably. how about the smart people make a difference and actually give something back to the world themselves?
at this point reproducing is going to make life harder on everyone and the environment in the future. oh well i just pray for a quick and painless extinction. that way humanity can preserve the little dignity and true love it has managed to maintain:nicesmile:





:thumbup:  Cracks me up when people think they will be the perfect parents are raise the perfect saviors of humanity.  Does anyone really have that great of parents?  I don't think I've met any.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19177593 - 11/23/13 03:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i can't believe that you people thought you'd be here without people having babies. :facepalm: or that you'd have all the nice things you have, ideas... accomplishments. opportunities, and freedom, you have now without "kids".


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19177597 - 11/23/13 03:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No babies allowed!


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: LordSenate]
    #19177603 - 11/23/13 03:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

infanticide! yay!1


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19177629 - 11/23/13 03:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Choosing not to have children = infanticide.  Ok. :crazy2:


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19177630 - 11/23/13 03:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

LOL, way to make that correlation without me. i was going by what Lord said, not combining what he said and what i said, earlier before his post. if you're gonna respond to that post, i made, then go ahead; but these three now, aren't connected dude. :yesnod:


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19177638 - 11/23/13 03:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i'll just re-iterate my argument for clarity, and so you don't have to go back and read.

you say choosing to have kids, is idiotic, when it's not. it might have some consequences but it is not simply idiotic. why? because, simply put, if more people chose not to have kids, not only would you not be here (or it'd be much more unlikely) but also you'd have alot less of the innovation that serves you and everyone else today.

for all you or anyone else knows, we would've still be banging rocks together in a cave with single family line... and without rampant sex, we'd be stuck there until we died out. or alternatively, if you think about it, we could still developed and innovated all the same ways... just it would have taken ALOT longer. who knows what meteor might have taken us out before this longevity of linage.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19177708 - 11/23/13 04:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
you say choosing to have kids, is idiotic




I'm confused, are you talking to me or not?  I never said this.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19177723 - 11/23/13 04:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I couldn't find anywhere where you did.. Although I definitely felt that you were insinuating it..Even though I couldn't find evidence of that either.

I really just got the feeling that you were leanin in that direction.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19177847 - 11/23/13 06:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

overproducing is idiotic. i dont see much wrong with each couple only having one kid. but 7 billion people consuming and polluting at the rate we are going is unsustainable. the population needs to decline in the near future if we wish to have a decent quality of life.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
    #19177918 - 11/23/13 07:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well, Stalin was a faggot. What can we say. Nuclear Winter, or the New Era Ice Age would have been excellent. Too bad the USA owns the Earth Now. Gotta love the bs news about North Korea and Iran being a threat. Just so we can kill them later.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: s240779]
    #19177926 - 11/23/13 07:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What about warehousing people and offering them various high quality drugs to keep them happy?


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: djoggy]
    #19177933 - 11/23/13 07:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

djoggy said:
Well, Stalin was a faggot. What can we say. Nuclear Winter, or the New Era Ice Age would have been excellent. Too bad the USA owns the Earth Now. Gotta love the bs news about North Korea and Iran being a threat. Just so we can kill them later.



:braindamage:


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19177973 - 11/23/13 07:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
If the rate of human population growth is not rapidly reduced and eventually reduced (so that we have less people each year rather than more) than we are all collectively doomed.


We need to use policies such as family planning, education, free condoms, free safe and available abortions, tubal ligations, vasectomies, and child limitation policies to address this issue.





lol... all these things are in place, most in the US, unless you're forcing
this shit on people it's clearly ineffective, family planing center are all
over the US and they distribute free condoms, they prescribe birth control at
many of these centers and yet we still have so many low income and underage
pregnancies.

force these 'policies' on people and suddenly you have a eugenics program


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19177982 - 11/23/13 08:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
If the rate of human population growth is not rapidly reduced and eventually reduced (so that we have less people each year rather than more) than we are all collectively doomed.


We need to use policies such as family planning, education, free condoms, free safe and available abortions, tubal ligations, vasectomies, and child limitation policies to address this issue.





lol... all these things are in place, most in the US, unless you're forcing
this shit on people it's clearly ineffective, family planing center are all
over the US and they distribute free condoms, they prescribe birth control at
many of these centers and yet we still have so many low income and underage
pregnancies.

force these 'policies' on people and suddenly you have a eugenics program





:whacker:


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19177990 - 11/23/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
overproducing is idiotic. i dont see much wrong with each couple only having one kid. but 7 billion people consuming and polluting at the rate we are going is unsustainable. the population needs to decline in the near future if we wish to have a decent quality of life.





we have wars and diseases that are supposed to control populations, see what
your liberal politicians and sciences have done, they've caused you yet
another thing to be concerned about, maybe we need to introduce larger, more
powerful predators than humans to regions where birth rates are high


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: s240779]
    #19178047 - 11/23/13 08:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Do you think it's ever going to get to the point where hoards of people are without food and shelter and literally begin to drop like flies?

edit By "shelter" I really mean simply being able to keep warm at night.





Absolutely.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19178391 - 11/23/13 10:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

i like cow poo said:
overproducing is idiotic. i dont see much wrong with each couple only having one kid. but 7 billion people consuming and polluting at the rate we are going is unsustainable. the population needs to decline in the near future if we wish to have a decent quality of life.





we have wars and diseases that are supposed to control populations, see what
your liberal politicians and sciences have done, they've caused you yet
another thing to be concerned about, maybe we need to introduce larger, more
powerful predators than humans to regions where birth rates are high




Yes! Lets engineer super predators, some kind of cross between a great white shark, a wolf, a gorilla, a viper and a wasp... Let them rampage through the urban centers devouring people on mass.

Sure it will be much more difficult than releasing an engineered virus but damn it would be exciting.


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Offlinei like cow poo
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19179182 - 11/23/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Lol noone would stand a chance


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: s240779]
    #19179403 - 11/23/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well I'm positive it'll happen, as long as we don't fix the current population growth issue, which I'm sure we probably won't.


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InvisibleKing of Pain
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Larabar]
    #19179778 - 11/23/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Imagine if all the gay people in the world were not gay and each produced at least one kid. I think our resources would be even more scarce.

That's some birth control right there, perhaps we should thank them.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: King of Pain]
    #19179876 - 11/23/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

why not just thank them for being them? :shrug: why does this popular notion of "saving the planet with less babies" have to effect everyone?


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19179899 - 11/23/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
why not just thank them for being them? :shrug: why does this popular notion of "saving the planet with less babies" have to effect everyone?



Because, less babies does affect everyone?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19179941 - 11/23/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

sure, but why does the notion have to effect everyone?

some people could give a fuck less about you and everyone else worried about their sperm being devices for the doomsday.

or frankly, they might find their lives to be more meaningful if they don't give a fuck, and have babies regardless of what it'll do to you and everyone else; because that's what people do... including you and alot of other people in this thread.

you don't care about their happiness, and they shouldn't care about yours.

PS: you don't have to keep repeating yourselves. we all get the picture... i get the picture. babies = bad for the environment.

the question was, afterall, why should they care about you and the planet, if you don't care about them? :shrug: selfish i know. but it's what anyone else would do... put themselves and their happiness first. address that, instead of repeating yourselves, it's redundant. more redundant then i can be, being that i'm only asking questions, and generally stating the facts of people's proclivities towards sex... and also explaining how that doesn't make them idiotic, only selfish... like everyone here is, right now.

see, different talking points. it's annoying, but it's not as redundant.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19179947 - 11/23/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
sure, but why does the notion have to effect everyone?

some people could give a fuck less about you and everyone else worry about their sperm being devices for the doomsday.

or frankly, they might find their lives to be more meaningful if they don't give a fuck, and have babies regardless of what it'll do to you and everyone else; because that's what people do... including you and alot of other people in this thread.

you don't care about their happiness, and they shouldn't care about yours.

PS: you don't have to keep repeating yourselves. we all get the picture... i get the picture. babies = bad for the environment.

the question was, afterall, why should they care about you and the planet, if you don't care about them? :shrug: selfish i know. but it's what anyone else would do... put themselves and their happiness first.



I haven't had children? and it's not what anyone else would do, believe it or not selflessness does exist.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19179954 - 11/23/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no. it doesn't. selflessness is a fable. you can be selfless, but you can't attain selflessness.

it's impossible.

if i had a knife or a gun, and i was pointing it at you... you'd know.

(it'd be nice if one of the "law-squad" popped in to say that's what police go through too, and it'd be true; and kinda funny)

PLUS AGAIN, avoiding the questions isn't going to help prove anything. :shrug: why should they care about your happiness, if you don't care about theirs?


Edited by akira_akuma (11/23/13 06:16 PM)


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19179960 - 11/23/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
no. it doesn't. selflessness is a fable. you can be selfless, but you can't attain selflessness.

it's impossible.

if i had a knife or a gun, and i was pointing it at you... you'd know.

(it'd be nice if one of the "law-squad" popped in to say that's what police go through too, and it'd be true; and kinda funny)



You can't attain selfishness in the same way you can't attain selflessness, no one possesses singular personality traits only. and this "if i had a knife or a gun, and i was pointing it at you... you'd know." makes no sense.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19179969 - 11/23/13 06:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

really? so if i was gonna stab you, you wouldn't move or try and stop me? that's selfish of you. you hurt my feelings.

PS: you don't have attain selfishness. we ARE SELF, so there is no attainment necessary.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19179976 - 11/23/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
really? so if i was gonna stab you, you wouldn't move or try and stop me? that's selfish of you. you hurt my feelings.

PS: you don't have attain selfishness. we ARE SELF, so there is no attainment necessary.



You could say that allowing such extreme selfishness (stabbing people to feel good) just to make yourself feel selfless is selfish so you should not allow yourself to be stabbed.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19179988 - 11/23/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it's not selfless to want to stab someone, what in the hell are you getting at? :lol: lets get off the whole stabbing thing, it was my mistake to bring it up in the first place. lets talk about the clumps of hair in the sink, instead.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19179994 - 11/23/13 06:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
it's not selfless to want to stab someone, what in the hell are you getting at? :lol: lets get off the whole stabbing thing, it was my mistake to bring it up in the first place. lets talk about the clumps of hair in the sink, instead.



I didn't say it was. And I hate pulling those out :awedisgust:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180004 - 11/23/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i read it again, and i got what you're saying now.

well, to that i say... selflessness is conditional and is inherently selfish because YOU'D WANNA BE SELFLESS. :lol:
(scuse the caps; not yelling)
the only selfless act, is one with no decision making at all.

guess what that is? can you guess? :datass: babies...


(i love pulling those out and rubbing them on my lips.)


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180009 - 11/23/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i read it again, and i got what you're saying now.

well, to that i say... selflessness is conditional and is inherent selfish because YOU'D WANNA BE SELFLESS. :lol:

the only selfless act, is one with no decision making at all.

guess what that is? can you guess? :datass: babies...


(i love pulling those out and rubbing them on my lips.)



Making babies is a decision.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180018 - 11/23/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

not really. unless all those accidents were in "Gods plan" or "conditioned by society" or whatever... lol you were probably an accident. i know i was. haha :lol: whoops!


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180026 - 11/23/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
not really. unless all those accidents were in "Gods plan" or "conditioned by society" or whatever... lol



In a society where you know unprotected sex=babies, making babies is usually a decision.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180035 - 11/23/13 06:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

in a society that knows so much, society should also know that Condoms break, only work 97% (or is it 98?) and that in the heat of undecided passion, people might just plum forget, or take heed not to care about wearing said protection (or forgetting to take the pill one day, either or)

ahhh, the completely selfless act... is usually a mistake@! HA


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19180051 - 11/23/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Just because the human population won't increase into infinity doesn't mean there won't be a shortage of food and homes.



food maybe, but we can always grow more. and houses? i mean there are new neighborhoods being built 24/7. I think the real problem will be not having enough jobs to support the population.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180053 - 11/23/13 06:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
in a society that knows so much, society should also know that Condoms break, only work 97% (or is it 98?) and that in the heat of undecided passion, people might just plum forget, or take heed not to care about wearing said protection.

ahhh, the completely selfless act.



"forget" people don't 'forget' to wear condoms, they choose not to because they're to excited to care. Not to mention the morning after pill available at every pharmacy. and over condoms are 98% affective. theres also birth control that, while unusable for some women is over 99.99% effective. It takes either a want for children, or a lack of any caring whatsoever to have children assuming you were not purposefully raised without knowledge of human reproduction 'cause your parents thought it was morally wrong to know things.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180072 - 11/23/13 06:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

well, it has been know to happen, so... :shrug:

if you want to debate, i say we get back to my original assertion; people whom don't care about other people's happiness, will have to attest to the fact, that said people won't care about theirs, in return. simple math.

you say people should care. but why should they?


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180091 - 11/23/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
well, it has been know to happen, so... :shrug:

if you want to debate, i say we get back to my original assertion; people whom don't care about other people's happiness, will have to attest to the fact, that said people won't care about theirs, in return. simple math.

you say people should care. but why should they?



If you don't care about the welfare of your species, fine good for you. But it doesn't work on a large scale and if everyone just says fuck it about other people's happiness the world goes to shit pretty quick. One example: early industrial revolution America, the work was long, hard and dangerous. Yet because people who cared about other people worked to change the way things work things improved and work was no longer likely to kill you. If everyone remained selfish, then these conditions would still be how our country operates and in fact black people would still be enslaved in America. Selflessness is selfishness is selflessness. In the way that being selfless ends up being better for the individual then being selfish, at least in the ong run.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180104 - 11/23/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yes, we should all aspire to make one another happy... why aren't you in favor of making someone who wants a child happy? (i guess said person could find someone else to make them happy, but that doesn't answer why YOU wouldn't want to make them happy)


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180110 - 11/23/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
yes, we should all aspire to make one another happy... why aren't you in favor of making someone who wants a child happy?



I am, but understand that that act is, or at least could be selfish enough to prevent happiness in the future for everyone else, possibly even their children or their childrens children. I don't think overpopulation is much of a problem, yet. At least in america.
But if everyone agreed that it was then having children, or at least a large number of children would be an act that makes everyone else less happy, and would be an act of ultimate selfishness that decreases the happiness of everyone else.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180121 - 11/23/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Wouldn't selflessness imply that someone was never selfish? Wouldn't you use selfless instead?


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: LordSenate]
    #19180126 - 11/23/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LordSenate said:
Wouldn't selflessness imply that someone was never selfish? Wouldn't you use selfless instead?



selflessness implies an act or a person that is mostly selfless


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180130 - 11/23/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

well, if we're not there yet, then don't make it get there. do you. if having no children makes you happy then go for it.

if someone else wants to have a baby or heaven forbid TWO or THREE maybe... then let them have that pleasure in their life, since it doesn't effect you, since there is no direct effect on the planet, that isn't already there.

are you... are you in favor of killing people to help the planet? because that's where were at right now... people are here making a mess already... having less kids isn't going to do anything but make for an eventually empty planet. at least in terms of human existence.
(why do we have to get into semantic arguments about ethics, when all we'll do is circle around back to "i know you are but what am i" lets just get to the point)
anyways... i am always drawn away from my initial argument, and since you maybe didn't see my original argument in this thread... i ask you... do you think a person is an idiot for having a child?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: LordSenate]
    #19180139 - 11/23/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LordSenate said:
Wouldn't selflessness imply that someone was never selfish? Wouldn't you use selfless instead?



yeah, like i said, selflessness doesn't exist... hence, being selfless is essentially conditional on whether or not you can avoid being selfish. which inherently you can only do for certain things at certain times, with certain ascertainment; and ultimately it doesn't mean that you're selfless, it just means that you're taking a stance on your beliefs of selflessness. which is a good thing, if you're... a fireman... a racecar driver... a SOLDIER... but... you're still not a selfless person, just because of a selfless act.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180141 - 11/23/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
well, if we're not there yet, then don't make it get there. do you. if having no children makes you happy then go for it.

if someone else wants to have a baby or heaven forbid TWO or THREE maybe... then let them have that pleasure in their life, since it doesn't effect you, since there is no direct effect on the planet, that isn't already there.

are you... are you in favor of killing people to help the planet? because that's where were at right now... people are here making a mess already... having less kids isn't going to do anything but make for an eventually empty planet. at least in terms of human existence.
(why do we have to get into semantic arguments about ethics, when all we'll do is circle around back to "i know you are but what am i" lets just get to the point)
anyways... i am always drawn away from my initial argument, and since you maybe didn't see my original argument in this thread... i ask you... do you think a person is an idiot for having a child?



What, no I'm in favor of educating people and making various forms of birth control more available. And what I was saying is that those people who want more than 2 children (enough to replace them) should consider the long term effects of their actions.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180145 - 11/23/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Alright. I was asking because I wasn't really sure.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180152 - 11/23/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

More readily available then they already are? you wanna trip to Africa or something? or are you talking about people in your country...? because people in your country already have more then adequate birth control.

and i agree that people should consider the results of their actions. my original assertion (which perhaps you missed; this is why having opinions sucks ass) was that people in this thread who are calling people idiots, for having a child (one), are being over-assertive in their defiance. someone who's had a child, to make themselves happy is NOT AN IDIOT and one would be an idiot for saying so.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180164 - 11/23/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
More readily available then they already are? you wanna trip to Africa or something? or are you talking about people in your country...? because people in your country already have more then adequate birth control.

and i agree that people should consider the results of their actions. my original assertion (which perhaps you missed; this is why having opinions sucks ass) was that people in this thread who are calling people idiots, for having a child (one), are being over-assertive in their defiance. someone who's had a child, to make themselves happy is NOT AN IDIOT and one would be an idiot for saying so.



good enough, and yes I meant world wide availability, though teens could use more birth control access here.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180168 - 11/23/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

teens could use their voice and get some willingly, without it being shoved in their lunch box by mom; or better yet by the law. :lol:

you mean people should be taught that having kids is a huge undertaking and hence should be taken care of responsibly without afterthought, because it's better for... the environment?


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180173 - 11/23/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
teens could use their voice and get some willingly, without it being shoved in their lunch box by mom; or better yet by the law. :lol:

you mean people should be taught that having kids is a huge undertaking and hence should be taken care of responsibly without afterthought, because it's better for... the environment?



Well yes, but in some parts of the US its hard for people under 18 to buy birth control or condoms.


EDIT: missed part of your post, not just because its better for the environment (americans are paced to not have population growth by reproduction) but because its all around better to analyze such a major life decision before making it.


Edited by NotTheDevil (11/23/13 07:21 PM)


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180177 - 11/23/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

well, that's stupid. are the kids smarter then the adults, maybe they should stand up for their believes in a non-idiotic patriarchy and take over the system. :lol: that'd work!


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180185 - 11/23/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
well, that's stupid. are the kids smarter then the adults, maybe they should stand up for their believes in a non-idiotic patriarchy and take over the system. :lol: that'd work!



Patriarchy? what's that have to do with anything


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180212 - 11/23/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:


EDIT: missed part of your post, not just because its better for the environment (americans are paced to not have population growth by reproduction) but because its all around better to analyze such a major life decision before making it.




that's an even better reason. :yesnod:

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
well, that's stupid. are the kids smarter then the adults, maybe they should stand up for their believes in a non-idiotic patriarchy and take over the system. :lol: that'd work!



Patriarchy? what's that have to do with anything



you said that it's hard for kids to get birthcontrol... i said, they should raise up and fight tha power. otherwise, what's gonna change? adults are gonna eventually have to acknowledge that kids not having protection, when THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE SEX (again not yelling, i just love saying when people are going to absolutely have sex no matter what lol), is a bad thing... but will it be soon enough, before alot of kids have more kids? (and diseases too)

maybe, maybe not... that's the adults fault for not seeing the problem with this... i'm sure kids can do something about it by either a: clamoring about it until what's right IS DONE or b: until the problem with this, gets evidenced enough by adults, that THEY'LL do something about it.


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19180241 - 11/23/13 07:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

NotTheDevil said:


EDIT: missed part of your post, not just because its better for the environment (americans are paced to not have population growth by reproduction) but because its all around better to analyze such a major life decision before making it.




that's an even better reason. :yesnod:

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
well, that's stupid. are the kids smarter then the adults, maybe they should stand up for their believes in a non-idiotic patriarchy and take over the system. :lol: that'd work!



Patriarchy? what's that have to do with anything



you said that it's hard for kids to get birthcontrol... i said, they should raise up and fight tha power. otherwise, what's gonna change? adults are gonna eventually have to acknowledge that kids not having protection, when THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE SEX (again not yelling, i just love saying when people are going to absolutely have sex no matter what lol), is a bad thing... but will it be soon enough, before alot of kids have more kids? (and diseases too)

maybe, maybe not... that's the adults fault for not seeing the problem with this... i'm sure kids can do something about it by either a: clamoring about it until what's right IS DONE or b: until the problem with this, gets evidenced enough by adults, that THEY'LL do something about it.



Ya, but patriarchy means rule by men and I fail to see what sexism has to do with it. Although now that I typed this I suspect its a reference to back when feminism was still a serious thing and there was a real patriarchy to fight against, and how that was once an act of true rebellion.

Of course the kids have to try to get it, but on the other hand it can't be to shocking or old crazy idiots will try even harder to prevent kids from getting it because whore pills "encourage sex".


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Re: Overpopulation [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19180249 - 11/23/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, i get it. they are stoopid. they need to acknowledge the fact that kids are gonna have sex, regardless of what their parents think, or whether they can garner the proper protection; because kids are usually idiots. apparently adults can be too, by ignoring the real reasons why people have sex...because they can.


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