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 akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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no, problems exist, i'm just predicting that none of you are going to do anything about it; and even if one or two of you did, it wouldn't be enough.
 i'm not saying problems don't exist, don't put words in my mouth, now c'mon.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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 Re: Overpopulation  [Re: Moonshoe]
#19173993 - 11/22/13 08:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.
Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.
no one is going to listen to you. no one.
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 FrozenHappiness
Professional Cereal Box
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 5,330
Loc: Nagoon Lagoon
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal] 1
#19174038 - 11/22/13 08:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Nope, it has been predicted that the population of earth will be steady at 10 billion people, for there growth will be very slow.
The reason is, almost every country (a good 90%+) has an average of 2 kids per family, which is just enough to replace the parents. Even the countries where family have 5 or 6 kids have seen a reduction in kids per family. In 50 years (if the trend continues), they should be around the same 2 kids per family average.
There's a TED video about it, but I forgot both the title and the name of the guy. It was a very well explained and interesting video.
I agree with this if two condiotions are met:
1.) If "modern" western societies, and the societies around the world that model themselves after these western societies stop being entirely consumer driven.
2.) If the standard of living greatly improves for third world areas.
If those conditions aren't me I'm not too worried about it. All populations are self limiting regardless. Once (if) we get past carrying capacity the average health of the population will decline due to less than ideal nutrition. That coupled with the crowding increases the incidences of novel forms of disease. Then the majority of the poor in the most crowded of areas kick the bucket.
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KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger
Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,918
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe] 1
#19174140 - 11/22/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.
Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.
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I have pneumonia 
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.
Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.
no one is going to listen to you. no one.
Actually I have seen documentaries and news programs showing how our (younger) generations are increasingly choosing not to have children, and birth rates in developed nations are declining rapidly. So my views on not having kids are actually already fairly common and the trend is towards more and more people sharing my views.
There is something called a population Kuznet's curve which shows that after a certain point of industrialization less and less people choose to have children and they choose to have fewer and fewer children. Large families are the norm in poor, underdeveloped countries but small families or no children are the norm in well educated, well developed industrialized nations.
It has also been proven that the more well educated a person is , the longer they wait to have children and the fewer children they have.
Having lots of children is directly correlated to being uneducated, having few or no children is directly correlated with having a high degree of education.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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the Earth, not a player in the Natural Selection game.
you know, we should all just strive to kill every single viable form of life on the planet, other then plants... because the concept of "Earth" is just that important.
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KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger
Registered: 07/23/11
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Now you're just being cranky. I don't see what's so important about squeezing as many humans as possible onto the earth. I'm all for the earth being filled with life, it's just sad to see it being increasingly just one species and the things they find useful.
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I have pneumonia
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
#19174167 - 11/22/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.
Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.
no one is going to listen to you. no one.
Actually I have seen documentaries and news programs showing how our (younger) generations are increasingly choosing not to have children, and birth rates in developed nations are declining rapidly. So my views on not having kids are actually already fairly common and the trend is towards more and more people sharing my views.
There is something called a population Kuznet's curve which shows that after a certain point of industrialization less and less people choose to have children and they choose to have fewer and fewer children. Large families are the norm in poor, underdeveloped countries but small families or no children are the norm in well educated, well developed industrialized nations.
It has also been proven that the more well educated a person is , the longer they wait to have children and the fewer children they have.
Having lots of children is directly correlated to being uneducated, having few or no children is directly correlated with having a high degree of education.
the distinction here being between "lots of children" and "having a child".
education has no bearing on what humans will inevitably do either. anyone who waits to have a children is a: simple lucky or b: is too busy or of ill-regard for having children so early in their life. nothing to do with smarts, at least on a daily basis.
and the reason people have less children in a more industrialized society is because they feel less back breaking work, they feel it's less important to contribute to "societies building" because it's already built; so having kids is "less important". also the fact that people have more endeavors to concern themselves with in the long run, because their is more options, in an industrialized society, to widdle at.
oh and pop culture can explain the reasons for young people not having kids as often... oh and young people have different rationalizations for spending their time on less abject endeavors and creations, because of what is culturally accepted as the status quo.
it has nothing but nothing to do with a documentary about some spicey nonsense. it has nothing to do with people "waking up".
it's happenstance.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Quote:
KremrBigSikter said:
Now you're just being cranky. I don't see what's so important about squeezing as many humans as possible onto the earth. I'm all for the earth being filled with life, it's just sad to see it being increasingly just one species and the things they find useful.
nothing is good or important about pumping out humans at an exponential rate. just saying, it won't freaking stop because you want it to, or because the world is gonna implode. until we get the absolute word from authorities that we need to stop making babies, no one will stop... and that won't happen for awhile, since people are quite aware that it's not the end of the world yet. despite other popular beliefs.
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Enlil 
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
#19174196 - 11/22/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
You could fit the entire population of earth in Canada and people woundn't be all that crowded. Food production is just a matter of how much food you want. We have fertilizers and plenty of land and earth. Food is not going to be a problem.
As for homes, not a problem either. You need resources, that's all. We are so far away from depleting the earth's resource that thinking that we are going to run out of them is ridiculous. The earth's mantle is 2800km thick and the deepest man made hole is 12 km... We have a whole lot of digging left to do
All of that depends on oil, however, which isn't in infinite supply. When that is gone, food production will reduce dramatically as well as transport of food that is produced. The world can't sustain 10 billion people without oil.
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Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
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Patlal
You ask too many questions
Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,836
Loc: Ottawa 
Last seen: 14 hours, 20 minutes
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said:
The single most important positive environmental choice a person can make is to not have any children. To choose not to have children is to make a real sacrifice for the greater good and the planet earth.
Conversely, deciding to have children is the single most ecological harmful choice that most people will ever make.
no one is going to listen to you. no one.
Actually I have seen documentaries and news programs showing how our (younger) generations are increasingly choosing not to have children, and birth rates in developed nations are declining rapidly. So my views on not having kids are actually already fairly common and the trend is towards more and more people sharing my views.
There is something called a population Kuznet's curve which shows that after a certain point of industrialization less and less people choose to have children and they choose to have fewer and fewer children. Large families are the norm in poor, underdeveloped countries but small families or no children are the norm in well educated, well developed industrialized nations.
It has also been proven that the more well educated a person is , the longer they wait to have children and the fewer children they have.
Having lots of children is directly correlated to being uneducated, having few or no children is directly correlated with having a high degree of education.
the distinction here being between "lots of children" and "having a child".
education has no bearing on what humans will inevitably do either. anyone who waits to have a children is a: simple lucky or b: is too busy or of ill-regard for having children so early in their life. nothing to do with smarts, at least on a daily basis.
and the reason people have less children in a more industrialized society is because they feel less back breaking work, they feel it's less important to contribute to "societies building" because it's already built; so having kids is "less important". also the fact that people have more endeavors to concern themselves with in the long run, because their is more options, in an industrialized society, to widdle at.
oh and pop culture can explain the reasons for young people not having kids as often... oh and young people have different rationalizations for spending their time on less abject endeavors and creations, because of what is culturally accepted as the status quo.
it has nothing but nothing to do with a documentary about some spicey nonsense. it has nothing to do with people "waking up".
it's coincidence.
Actually Moonshoe is quite right in his assessment. People are having a lot less children than in the past and it is directly correlated with education/industriazation and wealth. Like I posted earlier, most countries are headed towards 2 children per family which would simply replace their parents. Guess which countries still have high rates of children per family? The poorest in Africa. The answer why is quite simple. The average life expectancy is 45 years old and they have a high birth mortality rate. It's a numbers games pretty much.
Earth's population will stabilize at some point and it is expected to happen between 2050 and 2100
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal]
#19174206 - 11/22/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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it all depends on how you look at it.
no one is "just doing it" because "it's considered the right thing to do".
no one.
no one's taken a class on "preserving the planet's population 101". it's happenstance that people are having less children now. it's pop culture and the fact of people having less time to devote to having children, because of other less abject endeavors such as "school" "making money" "hobbies" ect ect...
no one told the kiddies "hey have less kids, it'll be good for the environment".
undoubtedly there is people who consider these facts, but hardly "everyone who is having less kids."
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gzuf
٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 6,535
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: s240779] 1
#19174208 - 11/22/13 09:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Overpopulation is a myth whose doomsday has been rescheduled over and over since the early 1800's. The Isle of Man is 221 sq miles, if you put 4 people to every sq yard you could fit in 12.1 Billion people. Population of the Earth is 7 Billion. You could fit them all in with room to spare. I remember reading once that every single person in the world can fit within the state of Texas with 1000 sq ft each of living space.
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+1 Post ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
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Patlal
You ask too many questions
Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,836
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 14 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Enlil]
#19174211 - 11/22/13 09:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
You could fit the entire population of earth in Canada and people woundn't be all that crowded. Food production is just a matter of how much food you want. We have fertilizers and plenty of land and earth. Food is not going to be a problem.
As for homes, not a problem either. You need resources, that's all. We are so far away from depleting the earth's resource that thinking that we are going to run out of them is ridiculous. The earth's mantle is 2800km thick and the deepest man made hole is 12 km... We have a whole lot of digging left to do
All of that depends on oil, however, which isn't in infinite supply. When that is gone, food production will reduce dramatically as well as transport of food that is produced. The world can't sustain 10 billion people without oil.
Oil... An interesting problem to have. First off, let's takes a few seconds to realize how extremely lucky we were that an asteroid crashed on earth to kill every life form on it millions of years ago. Had it not happen, oil would not exist.
Oil is easily replacable with electricity. It just a matter of developing the technology. But the problem is, oil is easy. So easy that it makes it economically difficult to develop alternative technology. Capitalism is hanging on to oil like a baby sucking from his mother's tit.
If you want to eliminate oil, you'll have to find a way to make a couple of people multibillionaires in alternative energies. Best of luck to you
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal] 1
#19174216 - 11/22/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Oil is easily replacable with electricity.
If by "easily" you mean by developing sources and storage technology that are at least 10 times as efficient as what we have today, sure.
Everything is easy if we assume the technology will exist.
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Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
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mpd
Lammen Gorthaur
Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 9,660
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Patlal] 2
#19174217 - 11/22/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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We had six kids and now have 11 grandkids. Wouldn't trade it for all of the political correctness in the world.
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There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man
Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: mpd]
#19174227 - 11/22/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mpd said:
We had six kids and now have 11 grandkids. Wouldn't trade it for all of the political correctness in the world.
Think of how much more money you could have though if you didn't have any kids!
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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think of much useless trinkets you could've had with all that money!
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KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger
Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,918
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: gzuf]
#19174239 - 11/22/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
gzuf said:
Overpopulation is a myth whose doomsday has been rescheduled over and over since the early 1800's. The Isle of Man is 221 sq miles, if you put 4 people to every sq yard you could fit in 12.1 Billion people. Population of the Earth is 7 Billion. You could fit them all in with room to spare. I remember reading once that every single person in the world can fit within the state of Texas with 1000 sq ft each of living space.
I don't think anyone has claimed we will ever run out of space. That's obviously not the problem.
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I have pneumonia
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gzuf
٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 6,535
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Moonshoe]
#19174250 - 11/22/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
We need to use policies such as family planning, education, free condoms, free safe and available abortions, tubal ligations, vasectomies, and child limitation policies to address this issue.
Sounds terrible, even if you imagine overpopulation to be real. Well I mean we already have all of those besides child limitation and child limitation is a proven failure aka China - Their govt quickly noticed rich people would just pay the fine and have their kids willy nilly while the poor/middle class folks were forced to obey the law. And now they have 37 million more men than women.
Quote:
A 2001 report exposed that a quota of 20,000 abortions and sterilizations was set for Huaiji County in Guangdong Province in one year due to reported disregard of the one-child policy. The effort included using portable ultrasound devices to identify abortion candidates in remote villages. Earlier reports also showed that women as far along as 8.5 months pregnant were forced to abort by injection of saline solution. There were also reports of women in their ninth month of pregnancy, or already in labour, having their children killed whilst in the birth canal or immediately after birth.
China's family planning programs contribute to infanticide. "The ‘one-child’ policy has also led to what Amartya Sen first called “Missing Women,” or the 100 million girls “missing” from the populations of China (and other developing countries) as a result of female infanticide, abandonment, and neglect"
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+1 Post ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
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