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Invisiblejpack666
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Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes???
    #19173420 - 11/22/13 02:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hi everyone!

I've been reading the strain thread and it prompted me to ask how come after ALL these years cubes havn't been traded for pan cyans?

Any discussion on how to potentiate psilocybin with maoi or on how to use teks like the lemon tek to make the mushroom more "active" in some "unknown" way, or things like extracts or teas or powdering the shrooms... Isn't that a waste of energy?

In my opinion, by now, most who have some experience should know that if your tripping, it's not because of a mushroom, but because of a chemical IN the mushroom...

And if that chemical is more present in species like pan cyans, why are people still growing cubes?

I don't know....

What do you think?


--------------------
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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19173441 - 11/22/13 02:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Because cubes are extremely easy to grow.

Quote:

Any discussion on how to potentiate psilocybin with maoi or on how to use teks like the lemon tek to make the mushroom more "active" in some "unknown" way, or things like extracts or teas or powdering the shrooms... Isn't that a waste of energy?




MAOI's potentiate the experience for known reasons.

Lemon Tek has some decent chemical process behind it. Not a mystery either.

Extracts, teas, and powders all help to prevent nausea due to taste, or a general disagreement with the mushroom in some way.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #19173482 - 11/22/13 02:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Cyanescens do not really fruit indoors. So your next step, for increased potency, would more likely be panaeolus.


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InvisibleTangich

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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19173503 - 11/22/13 03:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Cyanescens do not really fruit indoors. So your next step, for increased potency, would more likely be panaeolus.



Panaeolus cyanescens. :lol: :wink:
But there are two simple reasons IMO. Cubes are extremely easy to grow, and produce astonishing amounts of mushrooms, especially regarding weight. Consequently, the prints of oh-so-many-strains of P. cubensis are available on vendor sites, FSRE, forums... So of course people will start with those.
The other reason is equally simple, but somewhat less obvious. People who buy 'shrooms' from dealers know absolutely nothing about mushrooms and various psilocybin species, they just want to get drugged. And they know that you need an eight to get properly tripping. They would get highly suspicious is someone said they have an extremely potent species and they only need 1 gram for an extreme experience. Lolz you idiot, no strain is that potent. So dealers grow and sell cubensis.
People who grow for themselves (a fairly small number), do grow various Panaeolus species, P. mexicana, P. zapotecorum etc. They are not that obscure.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: Tangich]
    #19173583 - 11/22/13 04:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tangich said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Cyanescens do not really fruit indoors. So your next step, for increased potency, would more likely be panaeolus.



Panaeolus cyanescens. :lol: :wink:
But there are two simple reasons IMO. Cubes are extremely easy to grow, and produce astonishing amounts of mushrooms, especially regarding weight. Consequently, the prints of oh-so-many-strains of P. cubensis are available on vendor sites, FSRE, forums... So of course people will start with those.
The other reason is equally simple, but somewhat less obvious. People who buy 'shrooms' from dealers know absolutely nothing about mushrooms and various psilocybin species, they just want to get drugged. And they know that you need an eight to get properly tripping. They would get highly suspicious is someone said they have an extremely potent species and they only need 1 gram for an extreme experience. Lolz you idiot, no strain is that potent. So dealers grow and sell cubensis.
People who grow for themselves (a fairly small number), do grow various Panaeolus species, P. mexicana, P. zapotecorum etc. They are not that obscure.





Lol I am so used to people saying cayanescens and meaning psilocybe cyans that i did not even notice the pan in front of it in the OP


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19173597 - 11/22/13 04:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Liquid glass, I feel you. Was in a shop one day, just asked the owner if he had pan cyans, he said, those are wood lovers you can't grow them indoors, I told him not p. Cyans, PAN cyans... And he looked at me like "what a weirdo" lol


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #19173603 - 11/22/13 04:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wildernessjunkie said:
Because cubes are extremely easy to grow.

Quote:

Any discussion on how to potentiate psilocybin with maoi or on how to use teks like the lemon tek to make the mushroom more "active" in some "unknown" way, or things like extracts or teas or powdering the shrooms... Isn't that a waste of energy?




MAOI's potentiate the experience for known reasons.

Lemon Tek has some decent chemical process behind it. Not a mystery either.

Extracts, teas, and powders all help to prevent nausea due to taste, or a general disagreement with the mushroom in some way.




The "unknown" was for the lemon tek, because experiments are not consistent in my own experience. The Maoi's are dangerous if not taken with a diet and do by themself cause nausea. And nausea is augmented when potency is lower because you will usually eat more volume and deal with more alkaloids in your digestive system, IMO, but I don't know, could be wrong....

And I know cubes are easy to grow, but I keep reading that pan cyans are even easier... And don't even need a change in tek... So unless I was missinformed, the pan cyans should be just as easy to grow than cubes... That is why I'm confused.


--------------------
"There's a negative and a positive to everything."  :mushroom2:

For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos


Edited by jpack666 (11/22/13 04:25 AM)


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19173710 - 11/22/13 05:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

most peeps barely have the skill to grow cubes, let alone the exotics.
thats slowly changing though.........


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19174006 - 11/22/13 08:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jpack666 said:
In my opinion, by now, most who have some experience should know that if your tripping, it's not because of a mushroom, but because of a chemical IN the mushroom...

And if that chemical is more present in species like pan cyans, why are people still growing cubes?






Because copelandias suck.  There's more than one active alkaloid in mushrooms, and something in copes/pan cyans give a dark, scary trip.  Cubes aren't much better really, but are super easy to grow.  Psilocybe cyanescens need to grow outdoors, but are far superior in trip quality.
RR


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OfflineDark76


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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19174070 - 11/22/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Because copelandias suck.  There's more than one active alkaloid in mushrooms, and something in copes/pan cyans give a dark, scary trip.  Cubes aren't much better really, but are super easy to grow.  Psilocybe cyanescens need to grow outdoors, but are far superior in trip quality.
RR




Interesting.

Now there's another mushroom I have to add to my must try list.  :tripping2:


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: Dark76]
    #19174581 - 11/22/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why is the trip quality better? Just lesh mush matter to digest, hence less body load, or is there something chemically different? I never have the slightest discomfort on mushrooms anymore, cubes that is, so if it's just the former I doubt there'd be much difference for myself.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: krypto2000]
    #19174799 - 11/22/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Active mushrooms contain psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin. Different species contain different amounts.

IMO the reason people don't grow more Pans is because they don't yield as well.


--------------------
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If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

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bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: anne halonium]
    #19174833 - 11/22/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Krypto: if you can take 7 grams of dried cubes without discomfort, I agree the body load for you wouldn't make much difference. But there is something chemically different in 2 ways, first the potency... Then also there is serotonin in the mushroom, but not sure if it is present enough to change the trip. Which is why I'm hoping that experienced members can help shed light on this. I also read that pan cyans trip quality is increased when eaten fresh... and since more potent, and smaller, you could just need 10 fresh mushrooms to trip which for the stomach could be making a difference. Now as per why is the trip quality better? I don't know, I first was told that they give a much more visual experince and that you can have more mental clarity on them... But maybe it depends on the person or setting, because RR's comments about them were opposite to what I had heard before... Makes you think....

To RR, I was actually under the impression that the trip quality was equal between pan cyans and p. cyans, difference being the way they are cultivated... So thanks for your insight, now I definitly want to try and compare some day...

Quote:

anne halonium said:
most peeps barely have the skill to grow cubes, let alone the exotics.
thats slowly changing though.........



That's great, I'm happy to know this is happening :smile:

Quote:


Because copelandias suck.  There's more than one active alkaloid in mushrooms, and something in copes/pan cyans give a dark, scary trip.  Cubes aren't much better really.....
RR




I like the dark... I know some people don't... But me I like to be taken to these places...
Knock on wood

Thanks


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For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19174857 - 11/22/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Active mushrooms contain psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin. Different species contain different amounts.

IMO the reason people don't grow more Pans is because they don't yield as well.




In the end though, does the higher potency eclipse that low yield factor?
IME I still don't know...

Oh and btw pan cyans have serotonin, but don't know if it's enough to cause effects...


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19174870 - 11/22/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

IME, no it doesn't eclipse the yield.

Serotonin can't pass the BBB if you just ingest serotonin. You have to take some sort of prodrug to raise serotonin.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Invisiblejpack666
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Posts: 484
Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19174906 - 11/22/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
IME, no it doesn't eclipse the yield.




Great info! Thanks a lot...

And thanks for that serotonin info, that's one thing settled :smile:


--------------------
"There's a negative and a positive to everything."  :mushroom2:

For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos


Edited by jpack666 (11/22/13 01:41 PM)


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OfflineIrfan
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19175029 - 11/22/13 02:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

Because copelandias suck.  There's more than one active alkaloid in mushrooms, and something in copes/pan cyans give a dark, scary trip. 
RR




QFT, I have never seen someone else mention this on the forums (not that i have looked) but I agree 1000%.  Pans are Dark, that's the best way to describe them..  Not just that but they are harder to dose - require more accurate weighing.  Everything about Cubes, from growing, then dosing, to the trip itself, is more forgiving.


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OfflineInTheBiggun
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: Irfan]
    #19175034 - 11/22/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's woodlover season here... P.Cyans, Allensi, Azure etc. Not many people complaining, or asking for cubes instead.


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: InTheBiggun]
    #19175222 - 11/22/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Irfan said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

Because copelandias suck.  There's more than one active alkaloid in mushrooms, and something in copes/pan cyans give a dark, scary trip. 
RR




QFT, I have never seen someone else mention this on the forums (not that i have looked) but I agree 1000%.  Pans are Dark, that's the best way to describe them..  Not just that but they are harder to dose - require more accurate weighing.  Everything about Cubes, from growing, then dosing, to the trip itself, is more forgiving.



Quote:

InTheBiggun said:
It's woodlover season here... P.Cyans, Allensi, Azure etc. Not many people complaining, or asking for cubes instead.




I love this thread...

1. Many mushrooms added to my "to try" list
2. That dark aspects of pans... Coming from you guys, trusted info.
3. A great place to start for people wondering about "non-cube" species
4. A great place to discuss the subtle differences in species

I think it's well known now that most cubes are alike... And that amanita's are crap. But I feel there is much to learn about what else is out there... Only on such a forum can our knowledge be expanded in such a way... Thanks


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19175444 - 11/22/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Free Serotonin in the gut or blood stream could cause odd feelings but as mentioned doesn't cross into the brain.
Since the known tryptamines in shrooms all act about the same, I would say the idea of 'dark' trip has more to  with setting and expected results than actual tryptamines.  Although I do wonder how much the alkaloid content varies wet vs dry.


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: StygianKnight]
    #19175514 - 11/22/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

StygianKnight said:
Since the known tryptamines in shrooms all act about the same, I would say the idea of 'dark' trip has more to  with setting and expected results than actual tryptamines.




That's my view of it. Unfortunatly I don't have 1% of the experience that some people here do so I don't know..... I'm really fascinated by all this!


--------------------
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OfflineIrfan
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: StygianKnight]
    #19175537 - 11/22/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

StygianKnight said:
Free Serotonin in the gut or blood stream could cause odd feelings but as mentioned doesn't cross into the brain.
Since the known tryptamines in shrooms all act about the same, I would say the idea of 'dark' trip has more to  with setting and expected results than actual tryptamines.  Although I do wonder how much the alkaloid content varies wet vs dry.




I would have too.  My partner, I, and another friend i hooked up all had bad eerie trips on them.  I wont rule out placebo however.  I didn't have any expectations before the trip, just the look of the little stringy pale white mushrooms could have been enough to effect the trip.


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: Irfan]
    #19175550 - 11/22/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Were they wet or dried? (Just for the record)


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OfflineIrfan
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19175586 - 11/22/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Dry


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OfflineSuchSmartMonkeys
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: Tangich]
    #19175601 - 11/22/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tangich said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Cyanescens do not really fruit indoors. So your next step, for increased potency, would more likely be panaeolus.



Panaeolus cyanescens. :lol: :wink:
But there are two simple reasons IMO. Cubes are extremely easy to grow, and produce astonishing amounts of mushrooms, especially regarding weight. Consequently, the prints of oh-so-many-strains of P. cubensis are available on vendor sites, FSRE, forums... So of course people will start with those.
The other reason is equally simple, but somewhat less obvious. People who buy 'shrooms' from dealers know absolutely nothing about mushrooms and various psilocybin species, they just want to get drugged. And they know that you need an eight to get properly tripping. They would get highly suspicious is someone said they have an extremely potent species and they only need 1 gram for an extreme experience. Lolz you idiot, no strain is that potent. So dealers grow and sell cubensis.
People who grow for themselves (a fairly small number), do grow various Panaeolus species, P. mexicana, P. zapotecorum etc. They are not that obscure.




you don't know how many times i have tried to give people 3 grams of Ps. cyanescens, telling them split it with one other person if you REALLY wanna get fucked, or split it with 2 other people if you wanna have a good time of it; please trust me on this.... for them to be like "yeah right, what the fuck is this shit?! this is small!" then i talked to them a few days later after they decided to eat most of it themselves and they had a terrible time cause they got in way over their heads...

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Because copelandias suck.  There's more than one active alkaloid in mushrooms, and something in copes/pan cyans give a dark, scary trip.  Cubes aren't much better really, but are super easy to grow.  Psilocybe cyanescens need to grow outdoors, but are far superior in trip quality.
RR




also, this!! (lol, the 2 points i had to make were already made, figured i'd reiterate...)  sure they all contain more or less the same thing, but for some reason or other, the way it works on your system feels different.  Pan cyans definitely give me a fucked up trip where i go to dark places, cubensis way less so, and Ps. cyans is usually super visual/easy to deal with mentally.  i have eaten Ps. cyans till i couldn't tell the difference between opening and closing my eyes and was just fine throughout; i would be really afraid of doing that with Pan cyans...


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Edited by SuchSmartMonkeys (11/22/13 04:59 PM)


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19175773 - 11/22/13 05:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I did some research and found these links which provide many of the above answers plus more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_cyanescens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaeolus_cyanescens

From the looks of it, so far, the Ps. Cyan's page is full of info and the Pan Cyan page is almost empty of useful content. Also, they say the Ps. Cyan is referred to as The Potent Mushroom. Plus they say although it is difficult it can be grown indoors. They also say they can be grown with some of the teks used for growing other psilocybe species... Note that I said Ps.'s and not Cubes... I don't know if any cube teks can work on Ps. Cyans ...I'll bet they don't :rolleyes:

I've also heard from a store that all who had tried to grow their Ps. Cyans indoors had yet to report any success...

Interesting stuff...


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19175806 - 11/22/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I remember reading some indoor Ps. Cyan grows a long time ago. But they were few and far between. The ones with success were fruiting them in a refrigerator. And took some serious doing to make it happen.

Im sure the links are out there somewhere, but Im not going to dig for them.


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #19175860 - 11/22/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well we can start here:
http://www.shroomery.org/11368/Other-Psilocybe-species-General-Cultivation

I'll look into it, seems interesting...


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: InTheBiggun]
    #19175880 - 11/22/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

InTheBiggun said:
It's woodlover season here... P.Cyans, Allensi, Azure etc. Not many people complaining, or asking for cubes instead.




http://www.shroomery.org/11368/Other-Psilocybe-species-General-Cultivation
Is that what this page is all about?
Woodlovers?


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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19176220 - 11/22/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19176427 - 11/22/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I found all the info I needed.
It's all in my new signature...
Thanks a lot... hope this helps.
I'm signing off with the signature change.

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jPack - In Search of POTENTial!
Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes???
Other Psilocybe Species?!?
Comparative Ps. "X" Potency Scale!!!
How to do it!!! ~RR
Psilocybe azurescens indoor cultivation tek


Edited by jpack666 (11/22/13 08:33 PM)


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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19176470 - 11/22/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

donnt take the indoor azzies to heart, some don't believe it and there was never spore work done to prove it nor has it been replicated


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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666] * 3
    #19178497 - 11/23/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jpack666 said:
RR has already replied to this....
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18988112/filter/i




Just because RR replies to something doesn't mean it's absolutely answered. He can be and has been wrong before, and sometimes answers aren't just cut and dried so that one person can just answer it.


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Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19180383 - 11/23/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Quote:

jpack666 said:
RR has already replied to this....
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18988112/filter/i




Just because RR replies to something doesn't mean it's absolutely answered. He can be and has been wrong before, and sometimes answers aren't just cut and dried so that one person can just answer it.




That's true of course :wink:

Although I decided he was a worthy scholar on this issue after I found another thread somewhere (sorry I don't have the link at this time) that showed he tried to replicate the indoor tek as best as he could and he only came up with a similar yield as what you can see in that tek that some people beleive is fake. So he ended up saying "even if it can be done (take note I think he had used the outdoors to trigger pinning), it's really not worth it given all the work and the outcome at the end... especially when it's so easy to do outdoors".

I'll always be open to new ideas (see my signature), I just won't be one of those that has the time to experiment with indoor azures, not a battle that interests me after all I read on the subject.

If anyone finds a way to do it easily, dear god PLEASE add it here and PM ME!!! :smile:

For now though, it seems there are very valid reasons to stick to cubes for indoor growths and then experiment with other Ps. when you can make outdoor beds...

Also, it seems that Pans/Copes are not worth it because of "trip quality". They also seem to be nowhere near the potency potential of outdoor species like Azure's for instance. I must add: This issue has not been fully discussed in this topic. Maybe for another thread in The Psychedelic Experience forum? ... will see


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Re: Why "shrooms" are almost always cubes??? [Re: jpack666]
    #19181405 - 11/24/13 04:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Pans are right up there potency wise along with ps. Cyans and azures.  There are a bunch of species like gyms. That readily fruit indoors, check captain futures grows you can find them in the growlog forum just click his nam, he has done one of the widest varietys of anyone I've seen on here


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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