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Valyr
Con nulla non si fa nulla.

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate?
#19170796 - 11/21/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey all. I got a tub of coir/verm/coffee thats 2 days old. Cracked the lid just to get a look in and check temp inside the tub and noticed a moderate/strong fermentation smell like a bottle of cheap wine lol. Normal? Cant say that i remembered the smell from last time but this is only my second tub and i dont think i actually cracked the first one open before full colonization.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19170817 - 11/21/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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How did you prepare the bulk substrate?
Anything but a fresh mushroom smell is not good.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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mastercultivator
Master Cultivator



Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 653
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19170842 - 11/21/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeast contam. Might have been in the spawn. See what happens. Might be prone to a secondary contaminant infection.
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    I'm awesome sauce with a dash of sunshine.
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Valyr
Con nulla non si fa nulla.

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: mastercultivator]
#19171010 - 11/21/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I hydrated the coir with boiling water like in damions elementary coir tek but just the coir. Let sit for several hours then added 1qt verm 1qt spent coffee grounds. Put into two large oven bags placed in pot with water, braught to boil, removed from heat, covered and let sit for 90 minutes. Took out after that (meat thermometers then read 145 degrees or so) placed into bulk tub and let cool further till cool enough to add spawn.
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Valyr
Con nulla non si fa nulla.

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19171027 - 11/21/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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the spawn smelled great. just like it was suppose to and i dont expect the great mushie smell just yet as colonization of the substrate has just begun but am worried lol. Id just wait and see but i know sometimes this crap can be harmfull to your health lol.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19171041 - 11/21/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Valyr said: I hydrated the coir with boiling water like in damions elementary coir tek but just the coir. Let sit for several hours then added 1qt verm 1qt spent coffee grounds. Put into two large oven bags placed in pot with water, braught to boil, removed from heat, covered and let sit for 90 minutes. Took out after that (meat thermometers then read 145 degrees or so) placed into bulk tub and let cool further till cool enough to add spawn.
Your substrate is contaminated because you failed to properly pasteurize it.
Coffee must be properly pasteurized.
Bringing the water to a boil, and letting it sit for 90 minutes, checking the temp afterwards is not proper.
Proper pasteurization is keeping the core between 140 and 170F for 60 to 90 minutes.
This is what fucked you....start over following a descent tek like this:
Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Frank's Proper Pasteurization Tek 3.0
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Valyr
Con nulla non si fa nulla.

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: PussyFart]
#19171146 - 11/21/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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K. I was actually trying to do that but freaked lol. The core temp wasnt raising (atleast not on my meat thermomemters wich the low temp is 120)and the water was boiling so i was afraid of damaging the substrate so killed the heat and covered following a bunch of things ive read and videos ive seen doing it that way.
Thanks for the responses guys. Its much appreciated
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19171559 - 11/21/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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A good digital thermometer is perhaps one of the best investments you can make in your kitchen. I bought mine for twenty bucks at Wal-Mart and use it almost every time I cook now, whether I've got chili, custard or coir/vermiculite substrate in the pot.
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Valyr
Con nulla non si fa nulla.

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Psilicon]
#19172881 - 11/21/13 10:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah I can see im going to want one . Ahwell. Live and learn right? I think probably the day this hobby stops being a learning experience is the day I drop the hobby so guess it works out nicely . Thanks again for the advice.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19173147 - 11/21/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The thing is, very little is known about mycology right now. They're still doing genetic studies to find out if things we thought were one species are actually two, and vice versa. Even as far as cultivation of psychoactive species goes, there will be more than enough for you to beat your head against the wall about for the rest of your life.
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19173307 - 11/22/13 01:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Valyr said: K. I was actually trying to do that but freaked lol. The core temp wasnt raising (atleast not on my meat thermomemters wich the low temp is 120)and the water was boiling so i was afraid of damaging the substrate so killed the heat and covered following a bunch of things ive read and videos ive seen doing it that way.
Thanks for the responses guys. Its much appreciated 
Only way I can see your core temp staying below 120 and having boiling water is: 1. Your 120 is 120 degrees celcius instead of farnheight 2. Your thermometer is broken or not the right tool for the job (maybe it has a longer reaction time)
Soooo....
Candy thermometer!... Got mine for 3$. Ranges up to 200 degrees
Never go over 180 for pasturization or you will kill the bacterias that you need.
Water boils at 212... Sooooo
Good luck, hope I helped
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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Valyr
Con nulla non si fa nulla.

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: jpack666]
#19174739 - 11/22/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nah its in fahrenheit . Yeah i thought it might be broken aswell so i stuck it right in the water and the temp gage shot up. Only thing i can think is maybe i need to do smaller bags of substrate thusly raising the ratio of water in the pot and starting at a lower stove setting aswell giving the thermal properties longer to penetrate the substrate before the water reaches boiling point.
All is moot anyways cause i think im just gonna go buy a old milk pasteurizer or something lol. I live in dairy country so there not hard to find. Never seen one myself but friends tell me it should work nicely
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19174897 - 11/22/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Off topic but you don't want water to boil when pasteurizing.... You must never go over 180... And the boiling point is 212.
You do want to rise the temp slowly like you said though, to make sure your water isn't hotter than what the thermometer is showing... In the tek I use, I keep the oven top at mid level, even lower once it reaches 170.
And if this can help, I work with poo on every grow... Sometimes I get a weird smell and sometimes i don't... I tend to keep an open mind though... In the end, it is poo with live bacteria, it won't smell like poo, but it will smell... That's for sure (especially before full colonization).
For instance, I'm currently experimenting with poo petris... Pasturized, not sterilized. Most are doing great, nothing is contamed, but don't stick your nose in that box lol, it reeks
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: jpack666]
#19175419 - 11/22/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've had that smell before after full colonization of the substrate and it still fruited fine, but I wouldn't expect it to. As others have said though not properly pasteurizing your coffee is probably what did it, I don't use coffee anymore as everytime I've tried it I get a contamination of some sort.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19175660 - 11/22/13 05:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Valyr said: All is moot anyways cause i think im just gonna go buy a old milk pasteurizer or something lol. I live in dairy country so there not hard to find. Never seen one myself but friends tell me it should work nicely 
Do this thing and post many pictures, please!
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Valyr
Con nulla non si fa nulla.

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Psilicon]
#19175972 - 11/22/13 06:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well i havent dumped it yet and dont think im going too. Its only been 3 days and the mycelium is spreading nicely through the substrate. I have mine in a clear tote so I can see it working its magic (though i keep it in a dark heated closet cause ive heard both yes and no on whether light is good for colonization). Other than the fermented smell (wich is a bit weaker now i think) I see no signs (visible) of contamination. I dont have another batch of spawn ready for the tub anyways so may aswell wait and see.
It seems to me that doing it in like a cloth bag or something so that the substrate itself is actually immersed would be the easiest way to control the temp of water and substrate but i really dont like the idea of having to let my substrate drain a few days before use. Not that im impatient just that it seems to me that would be 3 days for contams to take hold before introducing my spawn. I like to immediately storm the beeches so to speak with spawn so that any crap still left from the pasteurization process still doesnt stand a chance just cause its so overwhelmed by the good stuff .
When I get one (milk pasteurizer) I will make a tek out of it lol. Probably be a few months though before making another investment like that. Plus its winter and I dont wanna trudge around farms and barns in the snow lol.
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OneiricOutsider
Drucid Leamer


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 136
Loc: In the autumn shade
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19176049 - 11/22/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Since improperly pasteurized coffee can lead to contaminations, would one get the same results using diluted coffee water instead? Are the coffee grounds better for some reason?
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: OneiricOutsider]
#19177902 - 11/23/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You probably would still get a contaminantion, but maybe not, I don't know. Coffee grounds are likely better simply because it's more nutritious. If you're just going to brew some coffee you're only get water soluble nutrients and leaving the whole bulk matter behind. I would advise against anyone doing anything related to coffee without proper pastuerization and without first having a successful bulk grow minus the coffee.
Edited by krypto2000 (11/23/13 07:28 AM)
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Valyr
Con nulla non si fa nulla.


Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: krypto2000]
#19178260 - 11/23/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah I would have said the same thing. Though I think using coffee in place of the water to bring the substrate to feild capacity would technically be ok and still add some nutes, 95% of them are still going to be left in the grinds.
And ofcourse as I have learned..... Always proper pasteurization lol.
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: Fermentation smell coming from bulk substrate? [Re: Valyr]
#19179038 - 11/23/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know, have you ever left coffee sitting in a pot? Ime it molds just as quickly as coffee, about 3 or 4 days and I'll have some white or green shit floating on top of some room tempature coffee.
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