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InvisibleIcelander
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Mans search for meaning. * 3
    #19169063 - 11/21/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Seems to me that a majority of discussions here center around things for which no sure conclusions can be drawn due to lack of physical evidence.  Yet the opinions can get fierce and battle lines drawn and no one willing to conceed that it answers are unknowns. 

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19169102 - 11/21/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

this is why we have logic and rational thought processes to be able to speculate and provide plenty of logical evidence behind the speculation.



also one perception of what could be considered evidence may not be accounted for in another's or the same physical evidence may have many different perceptions and opinions as to what it is actually evidence of.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: hTx]
    #19169133 - 11/21/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

unknowns must exist to keep things interesting to give up on an idea because it had to many unknowns should never happen or else how would the unknown become known?  and knowns lead to further unknowns and the unraveling of what was previously considered as known to be false.

its the mystery which drives the question and the question is always advantegous to the answer.

know what I mean?


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: hTx]
    #19169185 - 11/21/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think of it as a game,
it is more the process of being lost and getting back home.

if meaning is resonance, such that one gets a sense of accord or harmony between what is expected (known already) and what is experienced or discovered, then one feels at home with the new experience, one feels that it is meaningful - it can be incorporated or has already been embraced.
i.e. there is resonance, matching, accord, and a kind of joy of familiarity.

It is great when new stuff has meaning, or connects resonantly with what you already know.

when there is no resonance one feels lost or at a loss as if looking for a way home. it is a very vulnerable exposure.

as we project our ideas onto a question, attempting to fit our home-world-view onto it, it becomes threatening to others who are not at home with those ideas.

the forum then becomes a territorial negotiation field with various attempts to evict invaders or polluters, or to repackage fixtures (ideas) so they go better with the decor.

when the meaning is sufficiently hammered it fits anywhere but may not be the same as it once was.

I see it more a matter of territoriality, management, hospitality and discovery than a game.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19169205 - 11/21/13 09:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

We seem to enjoy our endlessly looping competitions. Some will retire, others will take their place.

All our animal inheritance is dressed up in the current intellectual motions. Dominance by arguement, outbursts, and evidence. Whatever metric wins the day.

A body of verifiable knowledge has grown, it's establishment inspired by the desire to understand. Who knows how far back we can push the veil of the unknowable? I suspect that as long as the cloud of mystery is there we'll fire our speculations off into it.

If meaning happens to be revealed along the way, maybe we'll stop, unless we're meant not to.

Did you see the recent professional sports game? That was quite an exciting battle.

When we don't understand ourselves completely we can't comprehend the other either. Our competitions push the limits of insight into the other within some scope.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19169215 - 11/21/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know nothin'. :cookiemonster:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19169268 - 11/21/13 10:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Seems to me that a majority of discussions here center around things for which no sure conclusions can be drawn due to lack of physical evidence.  Yet the opinions can get fierce and battle lines drawn and no one willing to conceed that it answers are unknowns. 

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?




Maybe when we experience that abiding in the unknown is extremely blissfull, peaceful & full of a kind of non-dual knowingness, we won't want to play mental games anymore


--------------------


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Rahz]
    #19169277 - 11/21/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: hTx] * 1
    #19169366 - 11/21/13 10:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:




also one perception of what could be considered evidence may not be accounted for in another's or the same physical evidence may have many different perceptions and opinions as to what it is actually evidence of.




Yeah I agree with your whole post.  But usually, maybe due to age,  I know when a question I'm asking is going to be able to be answered.  I may use logic of sorts in my reasoning behind my best guess but in the end some part of me at least is going to be very invested in that guess. Although with age, and thanks to posting here in depth, I usually realize I'm just entertaining myself rather than coming to any final conclusion on just about every subject here.

In "fact":lol:  my overall conclusions now are tempered by my realization that I really don't know anything for sure.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19169370 - 11/21/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

but do you find meaning in it?
is it meaningful to you?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Chronic7]
    #19169371 - 11/21/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Seems to me that a majority of discussions here center around things for which no sure conclusions can be drawn due to lack of physical evidence.  Yet the opinions can get fierce and battle lines drawn and no one willing to conceed that it answers are unknowns. 

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?




Maybe when we experience that abiding in the unknown is extremely blissfull, peaceful & full of a kind of non-dual knowingness, we won't want to play mental games anymore




Sure sounds nice but not really when I think on it.  One would become really bored with continued bliss possibly.  Maybe we really crave drama.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: hTx]
    #19169380 - 11/21/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
unknowns must exist to keep things interesting to give up on an idea because it had to many unknowns should never happen or else how would the unknown become known?  and knowns lead to further unknowns and the unraveling of what was previously considered as known to be false.

its the mystery which drives the question and the question is always advantegous to the answer.

know what I mean?



:thumbup:

Sometimes though I wish I could put my mind on break time and just completely not give a shit about anything.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Rahz]
    #19169381 - 11/21/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I don't know nothin'. :cookiemonster:



:thumbup:  So why are you posting?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/21/13 10:47 AM)


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19169384 - 11/21/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

In the end; the existance is a compilation of the random and unimaginable... to make any sence of it at all.... now that is insanity...


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19169388 - 11/21/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah the great relief of bliss wouldn't be as sweet without suffering a bit of dramatics first


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icyus]
    #19169391 - 11/21/13 10:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Are you sure? :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19169409 - 11/21/13 10:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Seems to me that a majority of discussions here center around things for which no sure conclusions can be drawn due to lack of physical evidence.  Yet the opinions can get fierce and battle lines drawn and no one willing to conceed that it answers are unknowns. 

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?




probably not until we die. :yawn:


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19169514 - 11/21/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Seems to me that a majority of discussions here center around things for which no sure conclusions can be drawn due to lack of physical evidence.  Yet the opinions can get fierce and battle lines drawn and no one willing to conceed that it answers are unknowns. 

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?




we have two different things, the fact and the mean

the fact, is what freedom is not what you think

conversations are freedom objectively, that is why it is like nothing

freedom is totally else to reality, so it is impossible for discussions to be positive

I am sure you had noticed that from yourself before, how the more you agree with another the more you don't want to discuss with him, you run out of points..

but the fact, is what freedom cannot be real

this is why existence matters a lot, it is about something else, true individualities..where realities are the priorities of conscious moves and free supports

what is funny, is what everyone shout on forums how everything is nothing, to feel free in that space, and dream about being able to not care about anything in real life

realities so end of means are about true superiority, this is why when freedom speculate on issues, it cant but mean to get the last mean, to conclude

true superiority is of course truth value, which is always objective positive end of rights

the idea, if all is clear, since true as nothing missing, so all is real present, then positive truth would show being about else rights, like something positive that you cannot know or you cannot been doing, would be clearly present positive reason

else is a fundamental factor of truth value, in all ways and means

else is not meant as a lover possibility nor a living potential ... at all

else is only the total different absolutely, again which proves the truth being infinitely true, because such fact exist, else exist the most

else is never being opposite, this is the way of evil and powers which is the same

else is total different while totally the same in free conception ways.. this what proves the truth being positive existence

existence is not for personal paths and dreams.. existence is an objective value of things first then of issues realities that do exist
existence is for truth value which is infinite superiority so objective rights life forever in positive constant terms

like else is reality to freedom always, while in truth they are the same

only else is the same, because only truth exist

two individualities of same kind cant be one ever

someone can only with else be one

through the way of superiority, so absolute positive ends comparaisons being of one superior sense the same

surely from what else is always free, so the confusion is only at a high level of freedom which exist then more truly

truth is freedom, since any clarity like all is there so what is left is that realization so not nothing but positive value of clarity so freedom

any is free for sure and freedom is first because truth value is always, only its actualization makes it more real, but truth is infinite

so freedom is not itself a value, which is proven in our existence

that is why free existence is about rights only

and actually to me, rights are all to freedom rights when truth value is all rights existence

to answer your question, I would say how for me it should not matter to not fight when what matter is the truth

it is easy to stay polite and please another and make up what could look as right points..but when they are not true, how wrong will it be to take them seriously.. for existence rights sake

it is true that we all ignore what is going to happen after we die.. but I don't know why do you care so much about everything ? me I care about truth value which led me to rights sense .. as truth is not a space nor one nor ever anything and of course never nothing ... it is a certain value that any present even for a very limited thing, can find an interest in knowing truth value

but I don't get why do you care what will happen to humanity ? or the universe ? that interest in everything is crazy, like too obviously showing how everyone is evil, because of powers of course ruling everyone..that even the limited conscious being in mortal condition is constantly asking about powerful entities life to give meaning to himself being.. while if someone is dealing with reality honestly according to his present concerns.. everyone and even everything force points him as a garbage body that worse wills should abuse openly, like no one else would regret it, because he is truly himself reality...

it shows how inferior realms are the only existence

to me it is impossible when I know what existence is only truth value ends positively

so such existence seeking to reach complexity to mean everything before being ..while spiting on simplicity and clarity.. is hundredpercent opposed to truth value willingly..


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: absols]
    #19169563 - 11/21/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
I don't know nothin'. :cookiemonster:



:thumbup:  So why are you posting?




Just being friendly.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineSse
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: absols]
    #19169636 - 11/21/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

everything can be viewed from many different angles


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Rahz]
    #19169818 - 11/21/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
I don't know nothin'. :cookiemonster:



:thumbup:  So why are you posting?




Just being friendly.





Jah baby, :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleTropism
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19170777 - 11/21/13 03:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Seems to me that a majority of discussions here center around things for which no sure conclusions can be drawn due to lack of physical evidence.  Yet the opinions can get fierce and battle lines drawn and no one willing to conceed that it answers are unknowns. 

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?




No, probably not. We want to know. We want control. But mostly, we want.
Maybe when we stop wanting our control and our flimsy certainties --and maybe if we stop all this wanting in general, but come now does that really sound like us?
Minds sharpen minds as much as steel sharpens steel, and there will always be nubile minds that need sharpening and find novelty in their conclusions, and thus the battle rages on.
If the ego dissolved somehow --maybe, like if we lobotomized everyone on the planet... maybe.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Tropism]
    #19170930 - 11/21/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

lots of cats


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleTropism
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19170953 - 11/21/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What about the dog people?


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Tropism]
    #19171727 - 11/21/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I enjoy ideas being challenged and debated. I dont think any of us will know the ultimate truth about many things, but it is cool to discuss with other heads and see things from different points of view.

Im with rahz..i know nothin :cool: just here learning


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Chronic7]
    #19171762 - 11/21/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Seems to me that a majority of discussions here center around things for which no sure conclusions can be drawn due to lack of physical evidence.  Yet the opinions can get fierce and battle lines drawn and no one willing to conceed that it answers are unknowns. 

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?




Maybe when we experience that abiding in the unknown is extremely blissfull, peaceful & full of a kind of non-dual knowingness, we won't want to play mental games anymore



:thumbup:


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: circastes]
    #19171778 - 11/21/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think I realised in the shower today that I know nothing and I felt a lot better. When did I start thinking I know something? Strange day it must have been. Probably all the OBEs + mirror fun.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #19171794 - 11/21/13 06:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Universaleyeni said:
I enjoy ideas being challenged and debated. I dont think any of us will know the ultimate truth about many things, but it is cool to discuss with other heads and see things from different points of view.

Im with rahz..i know nothin :cool: just here learning




I suspect many things. :sadyes:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: circastes]
    #19172369 - 11/21/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
I think I realised in the shower today that I know nothing and I felt a lot better. When did I start thinking I know something? Strange day it must have been. Probably all the OBEs + mirror fun.





Now you're getting somewhere imo. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19172581 - 11/21/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Seems to me that a majority of discussions here center around things for which no sure conclusions can be drawn due to lack of physical evidence.  Yet the opinions can get fierce and battle lines drawn and no one willing to conceed that it answers are unknowns. 

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?




As an individual or society?

Society no, the individual sure

I think its inevitable for arguments concerning the meaning of life to revolve around unknowns, specifically because there's no way for us to answer the biggest questions "yet". His noodliness works in mysterious ways



*edited: coherency


Edited by Repertoire89 (11/21/13 08:46 PM)


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19172828 - 11/21/13 10:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Rahz]
    #19173493 - 11/22/13 02:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease."-Bruce Lee
Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
I don't know nothin'. :cookiemonster:



:thumbup:  So why are you posting?




Just being friendly.




One may have nothing to contribute. Too much of the good is the bad. Rational ordering is stressful. Argue against oneself, attack onself's beliefs. Why does one stagnate with this basic act of blasphemy?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19173599 - 11/22/13 04:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

stagnate as opposed to what?

probably the greatest ability we have is to stagnate

or rather to hold something that would slip away,

not just in our hands so we can eat it,

but in our minds so we can consider


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19173788 - 11/22/13 06:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:
"The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease."-Bruce Lee
Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
I don't know nothin'. :cookiemonster:



:thumbup:  So why are you posting?




Just being friendly.




One may have nothing to contribute. Too much of the good is the bad. Rational ordering is stressful. Argue against oneself, attack onself's beliefs. Why does one stagnate with this basic act of blasphemy?




what you are saying is wrong, so for evil rules in inventing lies for sure

too much of good cannot be the bad.. how can you say this ? this is the rational stressful order you have

we have the fact and reality

the fact, that you don't know, is what superiority is inferiority in existence standard

because in truth superiority is before everything so the way of going up to secure everything nothing, rights to stay clearly out of what is done plus so only as it is reality

so superiority is meant in truth as in form and not in fact, for what existence rights sake

so when existence is, then it is easy to realize that mean objectively, so superiority is meaning to be over reality, which is the trait of inferiors in depth that keep meaning taking advantage of everything first before being which is never

superiority is inferiority in truth objective standards, so what is never the reference in existence, till it becomes true reality, so all is positive constant source exclusively, when existence would become the reality of superiority fact, then superiority in concept as the inferior standard would be the highest one, like the sense of who or what can do better of best

but till then, superiority is inferiority in objective truth

like first, superiority is the absolute fact, as objectively the only way possible out of nothing which is already relatively existing since it is a concept of knowing always all what exist, where the know-er is relatively the present of that fact superiority

so superiority is first absolute fact as the only way while present only relatively from whatever move out of nothing through that way

then came freedom out of absolute fact as the superior absolute one

so freedom became the objective absolute fact in truth, like existence fact standard value as positive source

it is like first is truth in forms then in contents more clear

positive source is superiority, but superiority in form is not positive source, through freedom yes, what is alone moving in superior terms is definitely a positive source

then we have another value that showed up, superior to freedom so more true superiority, it is being out of giving all known objectively to truth, then who does that is right, who act realistically for what it knows is right superiority, who have no problem in meaning the truth openly giving all what it knows and let even its fact doing it away, so the value would be also to truth, while everything keep meaning others arguments to justify objective fact..

it seems the most hard thing to act in recognition of absolute superiority being else.. especially from what it knows the most that fact..i think this is the thing that reveal the real choice, wether one mean its existence for opportunities or for being real   

this shows I guess why the reasons of existence are happening consciously, for what everyone is involved now and after, anyone matter in what they would be asked to act of what they know, they must know the value of existence being truth value and mean that to do wherever they are, this is the choice everyone faced..

then another value also appear being true superiority, is to admit that truth concern is for all to be positive so any mean could be done in relative sense as personally so all to itself only
and who admit that act for, like standing against wrong showing that it wont accept wrong to exist even if elsewhere, this is actually the true superiority reason the most
how superiority could be a possible way if not because of enjoying the lack of negative all the ways

so whatever enjoy negative and yell that it is good balance is sorry but how can I say it...wrong !

when superiority is the exclusive possible way then negative cannot exist

that is why everything are revealing being of powers will over what exist or could exist and lies..like hiding what they know being and where they are

while having no conscious problem to force negative on us, as good thing !

finally, objective existence should end as reality of superiority absolutely in truth, which means that any is its full individual realizations beings, like knowing what is to you and what is to others or all, from starting by the end of acting relatively right


Edited by absols (11/22/13 06:50 AM)


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19173810 - 11/22/13 06:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Slip Away



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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: absols]
    #19173904 - 11/22/13 07:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

absols said:


One may have nothing to contribute. ....

finally, objective existence should end as reality of superiority absolutely in truth, which means that any is its full individual realizations beings, like knowing what is to you and what is to others or all, from starting by the end of acting relatively right




I noticed that you actually edited this, and that in itself has me totally mystified.


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: absols]
    #19174715 - 11/22/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

many things are tools(not scripture) to help us find our inherent nature(which began to be obscured the moment you exit the womb)

inherently the world is uncreated-empty of conceptualization. The creation of the conceptual world we know and understand was born out of necessity/ignorance/other. We began constructing how we perceive(self) today in a chain of cause and effects predating our births. This unconsciously/pre-created world/self is filled with many ups and downs, pains and pleasures and has a huge capacity for suffering and taking things very personal. Many of us become slaves to the whims of this world, allowing circumstance to dictate and stray us from contentment.

By seeing our inherent uncreated(empty/signless) nature and realizing how our perceptions came about then we can begin changing our relation to things we may find and were conditioned to view as unpleasant/concrete/separate from our internal set of experiences. We can stop fueling the fires and start building a different sort of fire(mindfulness).. one that consumes our preconditioning by simply observing/acknowledging/embracing our hindrances with detachment/patience/endurance/unbiased.

All things are temporary constructs of the ego/mind, subject to change and inherently empty. By allowing the dirt in the glass of water to settle we can see clearly our base nature. If we stop trying to conceptualize our minds moment by moment, our mental chatter fades away and were left with clear one-pointedness that receives all things equally(without straying from that state of equanimity) Life becomes peaceful, we can  handle each circumstance by circumstance with wisdom and evenness, just as each moment conditioned our subjective selves, each moment will condition us in a different direction(nirvana). It all happens right now and without attachment to previously created/conditioned ideas/thoughts/conceptions


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (11/22/13 12:48 PM)


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19174756 - 11/22/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?

I doubt it. People here routinely ignore hard scientific evidence in favor of made up mystical new age crap. Evolution for example is refuted by people who make arguments that show they don't even understand it on a textbook level let alone well enough to debate it and insist they are right.

Arguments so ignorant as "evolution is organisms appearing from nothing by random chance like a tornado in a junkyard randomly assembling a 747 airliner", or "evolution is false because cats are never observed giving birth to dogs". And so on. The list is endless.

As long as there is death anxiety, people will make up warm sugar coated magical explanations of a world with a big daddy in the sky who will save them a seat on the bus to heaven.

And this is for topics on which there is almost zero scientific doubt. It's even worse for things we don't yet know with high confidence.


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Diploid]
    #19175630 - 11/22/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:

And this is for topics on which there is almost zero scientific doubt. It's even worse for things we don't yet know with high confidence.




Fucking aye


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19177625 - 11/23/13 03:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not sure what death anxiety has to do with people bullshitting themselves.

More likely too lazy to study and learn.

The simpler truism (I.e.  without the death anxiety shimmed into it ) rings truer.

Many stupid things happen more because we are not dead yet rather than because we fear death.


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19178214 - 11/23/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Seems to me that a majority of discussions here center around things for which no sure conclusions can be drawn due to lack of physical evidence.  Yet the opinions can get fierce and battle lines drawn and no one willing to conceed that it answers are unknowns. 

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?




No I don't think so, at least not until we do know the answers to things, which I don't think will happen any time soon, and for some things (eg: existence of god or a higher power) we will never know. While educating people in how to reason logically and the scientific method will help, it doesn't change the fact that there are tons of brilliant scientists and philosophers who have a mental block when it comes to questioning their faith.
I don't think death anxiety / existential crisis is going away any time soon.


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19178283 - 11/23/13 10:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just wanted to hear you say it. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19178302 - 11/23/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Just wanted to hear you say it. :nicesmile:




:sunspots:


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19178324 - 11/23/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #19178422 - 11/23/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

liked that poetry in motion ditty


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Icelander]
    #19183546 - 11/24/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?


I hope not. For me, the search for meaning has ben the path of sanity in an insane world. The Master Game is one of the "High Games," and one that I shifted to after "The Science Game." It has made all the difference in my life, not getting brainwashed by the game mentalities of the multitudes and settling for the "Trophies" of the lesser games which don't even address meaning but substitute 'toys' and 'roles' instead. Most people are like  babies, easily distracted by the shiniest, loudest rattle that is shaken before their eyes. That some little girl named Miley Cyrus can shake her ass on a stage, and actually become newsworthy, supports my point. That some pathetic man tattoos a likeness of this girl on his arm, others on his hands and forearms, and her name across his chest, further illustrates how meaninglessness can result in the adoration of banality. This form of culture-worship attempts to substitute obsession and [pop] idol worship for meaning.

http://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/spiritual_members/master_game.htm


http://www.crushable.com/2012/06/20/other-stuff/miley-cyrus-fan-grown-man-15-tattoos-lyrics-face-wtf-246/


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19184440 - 11/24/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

personally, i find meaning in meaninglessness. music... poem and literature... film... a sunny new day... a rainy new day... thinking thoughts...


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19184901 - 11/24/13 11:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Does anyone here think there will actually come a time when we don't play this game?


I hope not. For me, the search for meaning has ben the path of sanity in an insane world. The Master Game is one of the "High Games," and one that I shifted to after "The Science Game." It has made all the difference in my life, not getting brainwashed by the game mentalities of the multitudes and settling for the "Trophies" of the lesser games which don't even address meaning but substitute 'toys' and 'roles' instead. Most people are like  babies, easily distracted by the shiniest, loudest rattle that is shaken before their eyes. That some little girl named Miley Cyrus can shake her ass on a stage, and actually become newsworthy, supports my point. That some pathetic man tattoos a likeness of this girl on his arm, others on his hands and forearms, and her name across his chest, further illustrates how meaninglessness can result in the adoration of banality. This form of culture-worship attempts to substitute obsession and [pop] idol worship for meaning.

http://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/spiritual_members/master_game.htm


http://www.crushable.com/2012/06/20/other-stuff/miley-cyrus-fan-grown-man-15-tattoos-lyrics-face-wtf-246/






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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: Hobozen]
    #19184996 - 11/24/13 11:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Non sequitur.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19185025 - 11/24/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

connect more dots


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Re: Mans search for meaning. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19185071 - 11/24/13 11:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

hint: i was agreeing (with most of it)


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Hobozen]
    #19185619 - 11/25/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I was thinking to myself how 'shamanic' endeavors are best seen in the light of refreshing the mind (spirit) kind of like a good rinse; or an immersion in the stream.

Not more than that (and not less either, habits become so smooth - unquestionably).

so I took my little salvia mini-pipe and smoked it there in the bath as I used to do. and in less than 2 minutes I too was searching for meaning.

"is there anything I know?

I watched the rainbow-nian persistence of moments fill the room with bright jewelled pyramids or fulcra where any noticing had happened in my visual field, and that was both pleasing to me to see (eye-candy) and to understand (a slower overlapping  moment fading process), but I did not understand the scary dark tension vibration that was building (also magnified in time and space).

between one context and the next I was lost and there was no meaning but the dark building pressure in my chest or gut.

I moved to get more comfortable and found that introducing washing movements and water sensations was a huge relief.

then the heavy dark vibrations slowly moved on away like an army had invaded and marched on.

I think it was just one heavy truck (or street-car more likely)in traffic outside.

anyway, I am now rinsed and fluffed and the drippy time frame is drying as well.

Sometimes I wonder how many people die when a truck goes by and they overreact to their time-shifted perspective.


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19185716 - 11/25/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You really were out there on your own.



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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19185729 - 11/25/13 07:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

sorry to say that, but it is funny how truly positive you are alone out of pointing everything being not true...

but I guess you know that already.. it is all about your fun


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: absols]
    #19186398 - 11/25/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it hardly meant that to me - but I could see that it meant that to you.
huge differences in meaning
set and setting probably


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #19186844 - 11/25/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's pretty cool that the two of you understand each other. :wink:

I have such little luck in that area.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Icelander]
    #19186880 - 11/25/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i love it when Nihilism shifts into acceptance.


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #19186936 - 11/25/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup:  Makes it worth it to some degree. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Icelander]
    #19186946 - 11/25/13 01:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

absolutely. i truly believe that is what Nietzsche wanted.  :slowreaction:


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19186952 - 11/25/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm sure he's up in heaven with his little black harp looking down on the two of us in approval.  :gooby:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Icelander]
    #19187015 - 11/25/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

with every string to be made a discordant melody, from our soulless divide.


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19187043 - 11/25/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

dats beutifool. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Icelander]
    #19187061 - 11/25/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

haha :lol: i try and be beutifool.


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19187355 - 11/25/13 02:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I hate the both of you.

:hamletmonkey:


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19187379 - 11/25/13 02:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you secretly love the both of us; entangled in the withholding of our efficacy, you wish you could hold onto the veritable likeness of our being, but can only see the ripples of it in your own reflection.


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19187414 - 11/25/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think we have found meaning here


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #19187417 - 11/25/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:foreveralone:


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19187422 - 11/25/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I think we have found meaning here



you can find it in the strangest of places. where you see not with your eyes, but with the displacement of shadows on your subconscious mind.


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19187575 - 11/25/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
I hate the both of you.

:hamletmonkey:





I'm quite used to it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #19187632 - 11/25/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
absolutely. i truly believe that is what Nietzsche wanted.  :slowreaction:




Yeah, Nietzsche, from my understanding of his works, was trying to give man a new way to perceive the world. He wasn't pessimistic so much as he was trying to help people realize their full potential and create something out of life.

"What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end." - Nietzsche


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: r72rock]
    #19187732 - 11/25/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

like a tube
or like a worm


--------------------
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Offlineabsols
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: r72rock]
    #19189951 - 11/26/13 12:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

but it is a very ne
Quote:

r72rock said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
absolutely. i truly believe that is what Nietzsche wanted.  :slowreaction:




Yeah, Nietzsche, from my understanding of his works, was trying to give man a new way to perceive the world. He wasn't pessimistic so much as he was trying to help people realize their full potential and create something out of life.

"What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end." - Nietzsche




it sounds pretty pessimistic to me

you are not helping when you tell somebody that he is not an individual being
it is like saying that humans don't suffer they only accept to project realities about something else which is not happening really on them nor about

claiming the greatness of being a bridge is simply negating the reality of being, it is clearly in opposition with truth that all philosophers know, any is more the living whole actual fact then all in truth, the present is through absolute individuality, present being


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: absols]
    #19190025 - 11/26/13 12:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yes, do choose to express yourself, only without word salads and incoherence.

it's pessimistic to say that people are not an end? so it's a good thing to think your forthright in every and all things, because it all ends at your own mind and being? that sounds confusing, because to me, being connected to people and the planet and our thoughts and emotions, makes us who we are... not some individuals concept of "truth".

saying that, is not like saying that "humans aren't suffering but that they are just projecting a reality that isn't actually happening to them and around them." it's the opposite. a person a bridge, is identifying the cause and effect of people's actions, and how they choose to identify with their surroundings as if IT IS THEM. which isn't true. it's not a projection of reality, that isn't happening to them, or happening somewhere else; it is a projection of their own palliate endurance to the subjected pain and/or suffering they are experiencing. people can happy in the most absurd and furious conditions, because they choose to project these sensibilities onto the world.


Edited by akira_akuma (11/26/13 12:57 AM)


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19190273 - 11/26/13 02:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
yes, do choose to express yourself, only without word salads and incoherence.

it's pessimistic to say that people are not an end? so it's a good thing to think your forthright in every and all things, because it all ends at your own mind and being? that sounds confusing, because to me, being connected to people and the planet and our thoughts and emotions, makes us who we are... not some individuals concept of "truth".

saying that, is not like saying that "humans aren't suffering but that they are just projecting a reality that isn't actually happening to them and around them." it's the opposite. a person a bridge, is identifying the cause and effect of people's actions, and how they choose to identify with their surroundings as if IT IS THEM. which isn't true. it's not a projection of reality, that isn't happening to them, or happening somewhere else; it is a projection of their own palliate endurance to the subjected pain and/or suffering they are experiencing. people can happy in the most absurd and furious conditions, because they choose to project these sensibilities onto the world.




this is you invention totally, your salad incoherence in words

first, how do you mean another expression choice when you are the judge of its form ? which clearly prove the choice being yours only
while if anyone choose to express himself in words, the form is all what he is there, the wording, the way of putting different words for a same end totally free of the words means ends
this is what art mean too, the artist
and philosophy being the philosopher only

where did I mention myself means there, it was just a simple opposition to your statement in inventing the value out of something that Nietzsche said 

when something is not what you say it is, then it is not its opposite either ..how is it so hard for you to understand that ?

being relative is the right mean, and then yes of course you can be whatever you want to yourself as long as you are being it yourself alone so not involving everything and everyone else with

why do anyone mean to do something if he doesn't believe it being the best subjectively?? while it is for sure right objectively, any is only absolute superiority to appear being constant and free, so unique value of truly existing
why would anyone keep anything if it is not real nor true ??

your perspectives on others negatively makes my point more then anything else

you cannot talk about negative things as being others existence positive ways and wills..this is like destroying everything as it exists in truth

people are not bridges when they clearly say the opposite
while being mortal confirms it, any human lives totally for himself free when everything he is through dies but his freedom somewhere still as his own spirit, his individual right in true existence realms as the matter of fact
the fact is freedom superiority then any is the matter of  free individuality


Edited by absols (11/26/13 03:06 AM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: absols]
    #19190340 - 11/26/13 03:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

this is you invention totally, your salad incoherence in words




:jimcarreysplit:

now that my brain hurts. i shall finished reading this post for the luls. who knows, maybe some tasty tid bits are in this post, but off the bat... you can tell... :nonono: it's gonna be a doozy.

EDIT: yeah, right, that's what i'm saying. people choose their ideas from what's subjectively right to the observer, which is themselves; but when they view their life through the means in which they create their life, they can only see what it is to them, and not the truth.

the truth is for all beings, not just the one, but the truth solely hinges on one's TRUE believes; thus it can never be shared, only calculated.


Edited by akira_akuma (11/26/13 03:40 AM)


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19190345 - 11/26/13 03:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Icelander]
    #19190354 - 11/26/13 03:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

whew, i tried. i damn well tried.


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Icelander]
    #19190371 - 11/26/13 03:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I like Nietzsche in that he recognized the bridge! the evolution of brain circuitry/consciousness.


from here, to there, which becomes here and there comes soon enough..right up to the envisioned "Superman" and on.


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Light up the darkness.


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: hTx]
    #19192685 - 11/26/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Now nietzche is an evolutionary neurologist


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: hTx]
    #19192741 - 11/26/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
I like Nietzsche in that he recognized the bridge! the evolution of brain circuitry/consciousness.


from here, to there, which becomes here and there comes soon enough..right up to the envisioned "Superman" and on.




he was a sick man, he died by loosing his dignity as a conscious being, so the idea of superman is pathetic

you should know better how bridges cannot exist, when existence is true, then any is its clear individual end the fact reality


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: absols] * 1
    #19192759 - 11/26/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

then any is its clear individual end the fact reality


Huh?  You should get some kind of booby prize for this sentence.  No one goes home a loser here friend. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: absols]
    #19192763 - 11/26/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hemlock, anyone?


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Icelander]
    #19192868 - 11/26/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
then any is its clear individual end the fact reality


Huh?  You should get some kind of booby prize for this sentence.  No one goes home a loser here friend. :lol:



you got my sentence all wrong

remember ?? you cant read what I post !

and you should keep to yourself all the prizes when you are so desperate to get anything ...

you should also stop insisting to fancy on defining others limits

the loser you mean is yourself, you cant say what statements others could be anywhere

as you cannot call a friend who never agrees with you about anything


Edited by absols (11/26/13 04:26 PM)


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: absols] * 2
    #19192879 - 11/26/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

what?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: Icelander] * 2
    #19193127 - 11/26/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

how's this google translate via french icelandic and japanese back to english
Quote:

You're all wrong my statement

Do you remember? You will not be able to read what I write!

When it is desperate for anything, it is necessary to keep the rewards you ...

In addition, you need to stop claiming that you specify a limit different fancy

You lose yourself, you will not be able to tell where and what other states and can do

You can not call a friend to what never consent




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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19193173 - 11/26/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

sounds like alot of "not this not that but...".


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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #19193191 - 11/26/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you should hear what it sounds like in icelandic


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Mans search for meaning in the bathtub [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19193353 - 11/26/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

lots of felher and atacze and other weird syntax that i'd never understand; right? :lol:


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