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Offlineshroomdust
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Inoculating safely without a SAB
    #19166478 - 11/20/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So I was just thinking of a new tek to noc up our jars... Wipe the jars down with alcohol, put a new ziplock bag over each jar with a rubber band to seal it up (maybe even putting an alcohol soaked cotton round in the bag too), flame sterilize the needle between each jar (letting it cool in an alcohol soaked towel) before you push it through the baggie after swabbing the outside with alcohol. You would only need to stick the needle through the bag once per jar. Seems a LOT safer than inoculating in open air, inexpensive, and much less bulky than using a GB. I'm going to try it tonight on 12 jars. I'll report back with my success or failure but, I'm pretty sure this is a great idea that will work flawlessly. Your thoughts?


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19166485 - 11/20/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

don't cool it with alcohol just wait or let the first drop cool it


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: cronicr]
    #19166504 - 11/20/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Open air innoculations do work, just make sure you dissenfect and have no air currents; rendering ziplock bags totally useless


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: dutchfunkle]
    #19166600 - 11/20/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

what they said. Alcohol is sanitizing The flame sterilizes the needle. Don't work backwards alcohol then flame if you want to use alcohol at all on the needle. If you don't want to make a SAB you flame in a draft free room and hope for the best (which usually works well) but some people like to take the variables out. I don't recommend using needles at all and doing g2g or agar wedge inoculations in a SAB or LFH


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: dutchfunkle]
    #19166623 - 11/20/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i've used a piece of a sponge soaked in alcohol right over my innoc port and had success in open air...even so i would always have to recommend using a SAB or glovebox:rasta:


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Offlineshroomdust
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #19167004 - 11/20/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
don't cool it with alcohol just wait or let the first drop cool it




Why not? I feel like letting it cool on its own will give mold spores more time/chance to land on the needle/syringe. Once heated red hot, it's sterile.. Covering something sterile in alcohol couldn't possibly infect it. I welcome you to prove me wrong though.

Quote:

dutchfunkle said:
Open air innoculations do work, just make sure you dissenfect and have no air currents; rendering ziplock bags totally useless




I never said they didn't work. I know open air inoculations CAN work as I've mostly successfully done a few myself BUT, you have to go through a lot more trouble lysoling the fuck out of everything and making sure there are zero air currents (which is practically impossible in your common household room), which means turning all fans/etc off and waiting around for an hour or longer for the air to settle. And even if the air and everything is lysol'd and still, you know there are still some* mold spores floating around or resting in some little nook and cranny that your body movements might kick up right onto your jar lid as you stick the needle in...

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Alcohol is sanitizing The flame sterilizes the needle. Don't work backwards alcohol then flame if you want to use alcohol at all on the needle.




Hence why you sterilize first and then keep it sanitary with the use of alcohol. It's not backwards, it's proper. There would be no reason to alcohol and then flame..
San·i·tar·y (s n -t r )
adj.
1. Of or relating to health or the
protection of health.
2. Free from elements, such as filth or
pathogens, that endanger health; hygienic:

Now if you were trying to sterilize your needle with alcohol alone then that's a different story and is not sterilizing and could jeopordize your grow. However, it still works fairly well to kill most bacteria/contams and I highly recommend it's use in nearly every step of the way in the inoculation procedure.

Quote:

bodhisatta said: I don't recommend using needles at all and doing g2g or agar wedge inoculations in a SAB or LFH




Trust me, if I could I would but, that's a whole nother ballgame and some people just can't go that route. For starters, I don't even own a PC.


Now, does anyone understand my reasoning behind this or is it really not as genius as I think it is? Isn't this tek accomplishing the same thing as SAB or GB? I appreciate the input/discussion guys. Keep it comin'! :smile:


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19167079 - 11/20/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i say no alcohol after you flame because your taking backward steps, it doesn't get any more sterile then red hot
Quote:

shroomdust said:


Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Alcohol is sanitizing The flame sterilizes the needle. Don't work backwards alcohol then flame if you want to use alcohol at all on the needle.




Hence why you sterilize first and then keep it sanitary with the use of alcohol. It's not backwards, it's proper. There would be no reason to alcohol and then flame..
San·i·tar·y (s n -t r )
adj.
1. Of or relating to health or the
protection of health.
2. Free from elements, such as filth or
pathogens, that endanger health; hygienic:

Now if you were trying to sterilize your needle with alcohol alone then that's a different story and is not sterilizing and could jeopordize your grow. However, it still works fairly well to kill most bacteria/contams and I highly recommend it's use in nearly every step of the way in the inoculation procedure.

Quote:

bodhisatta said: I don't recommend using needles at all and doing g2g or agar wedge inoculations in a SAB or LFH




Trust me, if I could I would but, that's a whole nother ballgame and some people just can't go that route. For starters, I don't even own a PC.


Now, does anyone understand my reasoning behind this or is it really not as genius as I think it is? Isn't this tek accomplishing the same thing as SAB or GB? I appreciate the input/discussion guys. Keep it comin'! :smile:



again doesn't get any more sterile then red hot, alcohol sanitizes and doesn't kill airbourne contams, unless bacteria is jumping at you then just flame


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19167106 - 11/20/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you're really over thinking this thing brudda. if you're that worried about a sterile inoculation on a PF jar just buy a sterilite tub from target for $12 and cut some arm holes in it...you're gonna need one for g2g transfers down the road anyway. also there's really no need to wipe your needle down with alcohol after you flame it, once its red hot the thing is already sterile.

once u start working with grain you'll never really worry about using a needle anyway..i've probably used 2 syringes in the last 2 years:shrug:


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OfflineSamhainJ
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: cronicr]
    #19167118 - 11/20/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have never used a sab to nocc up jars or bags, i just make sure theres no air blowing in the room and flame the needle, wash my hands in alcohol and alchol wipe the needle while its glowing.. ive been told not to wipe with an alcohol wipe on the glowing needle, but have only had a few contamed jars out of hundreds of bags/jars which is most likely due to innsufficiant jar sterilization..


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19167143 - 11/20/13 07:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think you'll find the baggie to be a bigger pain in the ass than a SAB.

The baggie is going to suck air in when you handle it, thus suck contams right in. You would likely have better luck in open air.

Don't swab your flame sterilized needle with alcohol. Your needle can't be more sterile than when red hot. Wiping with alcohol makes it not sterile anymore. Wiping with alcohol will render it sanitized. Sterile is cleaner than sanitized. Sanitized is not recommended for your needle.

Sanitizing for health is okay because we already have antibodies to fight of contaminants. Your highly nutritious sterile substrate/spawn jar does not have this luxury. Anything that gets in there is gonna grow.


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Offlineshroomdust
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19167282 - 11/20/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
i say no alcohol after you flame because your taking backward steps, it doesn't get any more sterile then red hot



Backwards how?? I just don't understand that. I agree it doesn't get any more sterile than red hot but, the alcohol is an effective way to cool the needle and KEEP IT STERILE until you use it. You can't tell me just because you heat a needle red hot it will remain sterile in open air indefinately after it has cooled down...

Quote:

again doesn't get any more sterile then red hot, alcohol sanitizes and doesn't kill airbourne contams, unless bacteria is jumping at you then just flame



Alcohol may not kill airborne contams (though I doubt this is entirely true) but, it can PROTECT against them landing on your needle or whatever. Do contams live in alcohol or is alcohol considered sterile/resistant to contamination? The point is that the alcohol soaked paper towel offers a clean covering for the needle before you stick it in the jar and at the same time cools it down so you don't kill all your spores. It couldn't hurt..could only help. Not like it's a chore to do or expensive. It may not be needed but I don't think it's going backwards.

again..
San·i·tar·y (s n -t r )
adj.
1. Of or relating to health or the
PROTECTION of health.
2. Free from elements, such as filth or
pathogens, that endanger health; hygienic:


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19167387 - 11/20/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Why not? I feel like letting it cool on its own will give mold spores more time/chance to land on the needle/syringe. Once heated red hot, it's sterile.. Covering something sterile in alcohol couldn't possibly infect it. I welcome you to prove me wrong though.



http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42240430/


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kizzle]
    #19167396 - 11/20/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Wiping a flame sterilized tool with an unsterile substance like alcohol is like wiping shit on your face after a shower.


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Offlineshroomdust
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #19167402 - 11/20/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PirateSwazey said:
you're really over thinking this thing brudda. if you're that worried about a sterile inoculation on a PF jar just buy a sterilite tub from target for $12 and cut some arm holes in it...you're gonna need one for g2g transfers down the road anyway. also there's really no need to wipe your needle down with alcohol after you flame it, once its red hot the thing is already sterile.

once u start working with grain you'll never really worry about using a needle anyway..i've probably used 2 syringes in the last 2 years:shrug:




I don't think I'm over thinking anything.. Maybe you're underthinking things? It's a very small step to take to ensure keeping things sterile while cooling the needle faster, and wiping the messy soot off. Like I said, the reason I thought of ziplocks is because then I don't need a big bulky tub with giant holes cut in it just sitting around 99% of the time taking up space and being useless. When it comes time to do g2g, I will make one then as it will fit those needs perfectly but, until then I'm sure my idea will accomplish the same thing as a SAB making it better than open air inoculation and it's very cheap, disposable, and not at all hard to do...like I said it's less effort than lysoling every square inch of a room and waiting hours for the air to be still (which it will never truly be in an open room anyway). What's wrong with that?


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kizzle]
    #19167421 - 11/20/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

alcohol from a bottle soaked up into a cotton ball isn't alcohol pads, I dunno I flame sterilize then wipe the needle down with a soaked ball to cool the needle quickly


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19167427 - 11/20/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shroomdust said:
I don't think I'm over thinking anything.. Maybe you're underthinking things? It's a very small step to take to ensure keeping things sterile while cooling the needle faster, and wiping the messy soot off.



At least the soot it sterile, the alcohol is not.

Alcohol does not kill mold spores....heat does.

You could be wiping mold spores all over your clean needle....think about it...it makes sense.

Quote:

shroomdust said:
I don't need a big bulky tub with giant holes cut in it just sitting around 99% of the time taking up space and being useless.



I use mine for storage when it's not in use.....

You need to look at this hobby in a different way, with an open mind bro.

Quote:

shroomdust said:
When it comes time to do g2g, I will make one then as it will fit those needs perfectly but, until then I'm sure my idea will accomplish the same thing as a SAB making it better than open air inoculation and it's very cheap, disposable, and not at all hard to do...like I said it's less effort than lysoling every square inch of a room and waiting hours for the air to be still (which it will never truly be in an open room anyway). What's wrong with that?



Nothing, sounds good.

Just dont wipe your needles after flaming...that is just bad practice.

The first few drops of spores will cool the needle, then the rest will flow contam free.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #19167454 - 11/20/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

sorry for the jack but I always wondered this anyways, so it's ok to heat the shit out of the needle then just inject spores and/or LC and it won't affect the solution?


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #19167463 - 11/20/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Watching noobs try to wrap their heads around this is hilarious. Let them do what they want.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: ghostshadow422]
    #19167471 - 11/20/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ghostshadow422 said:
sorry for the jack but I always wondered this anyways, so it's ok to heat the shit out of the needle then just inject spores and/or LC and it won't affect the solution?



No, the spores will be fine.

This has been discussed to death.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19167473 - 11/20/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you were once a noob too, still an asshole though it seems lol


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #19167475 - 11/20/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

cool, good to know, I was just worried the heat from the needle would kill the LC or mss, thanks bro


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #19167478 - 11/20/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

ghostshadow422 said:
sorry for the jack but I always wondered this anyways, so it's ok to heat the shit out of the needle then just inject spores and/or LC and it won't affect the solution?



No, the spores will be fine.

This has beenis being discussed to death.



:thumbup: agreed


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #19167804 - 11/20/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
I think you'll find the baggie to be a bigger pain in the ass than a SAB.
The baggie is going to suck air in when you handle it, thus suck contams right in. You would likely have better luck in open air.



If anything, I really think the bag would be pushing air out when handled and there would be no vaccuum to suck it back in. Even if it did suck in a tiny bit of air through the one hole with a needle stuck in that hole, you really think that's worse than open air? I was under the impression inoculating in open air was much riskier than in a small enclosed environment. :confused:

Quote:

ghostshadow422 said:
alcohol from a bottle soaked up into a cotton ball isn't alcohol pads



Good point.

Quote:

Notahacker420 said: At least the soot it sterile, the alcohol is not.

Alcohol does not kill mold spores....heat does.

You could be wiping mold spores all over your clean needle....think about it...it makes sense.



So with all this talk about how alcohol is so unsterile and can spread mold spores all over everything, what do all of you use to wipe your jars/injection ports/tables/glove boxes/etc etc with? Does no one here use fucking alcohol anymore? Lol I thought it was a common practice in this hobby and helped keep contams away, not brought them with it!

Quote:


I use mine for storage when it's not in use.....

You need to look at this hobby in a different way, with an open mind bro.



I knew that. I was thinking that it could be used for that purpose but, then I thought, well there's big ass holes in the side for shit to fall out and things to get in (mice, moisture, dirt). Idrk what I'd store in a tote like that honestly. Guess ya could tape the holes up or something but, that wasn't my point. I have plenty of totes for storage, I don't need another one taking up room.

Quote:

Just dont wipe your needles after flaming...that is just bad practice.

The first few drops of spores will cool the needle, then the rest will flow contam free.




Ok. If you all say that the needle will remain sterile just chillin in open air while it cools and there's no reason to cover it with anything then I won't cover it/wipe it with alcohol. Should I not wipe the top of my jars with alcohol or the outside of the injection site on the bag with alcohol either?? Now I am curious how many of you use alcohol at any point during inoculation/how many don't/and contam rates of jars using alcohol vs no alcohol at all. Maybe that should be a poll.. Anyway, thanks every one. Peace


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19167851 - 11/20/13 10:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's got me thinking now.. if alcohol is just a "sanitizer" and could possibly carry mold spores, why would it be ok/recommended to wash your hands in it and wipe down jars and everything else in alcohol except for the needle? Doesn't make much sense. I have wiped my jars and needle every single time on probably 60+ jars and only had a handful of contams probably due to something else. Sometimes, not even flaming the needle and simply just wiping with iso. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's used alcohol religiously in this hobby and credited it to his/her success, right?


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19167876 - 11/20/13 10:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shroomdust said:
It's got me thinking now.. if alcohol is just a "sanitizer" and could possibly carry mold spores, why would it be ok/recommended to wash your hands in it and wipe down jars and everything else in alcohol except for the needle? Doesn't make much sense.



Well nobody"s gonna sterilize there hands for one< and secondly when you use alcohol on your hands your killing contact contms not airburne contams< all the more reason to use a sab and not a baggie


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19167940 - 11/20/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shroomdust said:
Alcohol may not kill airborne contams (though I doubt this is entirely true) but, it can PROTECT against them landing on your needle or whatever. Do contams live in alcohol or is alcohol considered sterile/resistant to contamination? The point is that the alcohol soaked paper towel offers a clean covering for the needle before you stick it in the jar and at the same time cools it down so you don't kill all your spores. It couldn't hurt..could only help. Not like it's a chore to do or expensive. It may not be needed but I don't think it's going backwards.






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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19167969 - 11/20/13 10:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

*Sanitize means to reduce the number of contaminants to a safe or relatively safe level as may be judged by public health requirements.
Disinfect means elimination of all recognized pathogenic microorganism but not necessarily all microbial forms.
Sterilize means the destruction of all microbial life by use of chemical or physical procedures.

we can wipe the outside of things with alcohol because it doesn't need to be sterile, the minute you take your jar out of your sab(or even before) it's gonna be "contammed" on the outside, anything going in the jar(your needle) should be sterilized


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: cronicr]
    #19168038 - 11/20/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:blowmybrainsout:


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: cronicr]
    #19168104 - 11/20/13 11:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:Well nobody"s gonna sterilize there hands for one< and secondly when you use alcohol on your hands your killing contact contms not airburne contams< all the more reason to use a sab and not a baggie




You mean I shouldn't be flame sterilizing my hands in between each jar too?! :needsomeair:


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19168122 - 11/20/13 11:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no, then you won't have any hands to facepalm yourself lol


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
    #19168555 - 11/21/13 03:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shroomdust said:

Ok. If you all say that the needle will remain sterile just chillin in open air while it cools and there's no reason to cover it with anything then I won't cover it/wipe it with alcohol.




The thing is you are not just leaving it lying around in open air to cool down for ages...heat to red hot and then quickly and gracefully innoc straight away - the first bit of solution will cool the needle sufficiently whilst it is in a sterile environment (your jar) :thumbup:




Edit:
Quote:

cronicr said:
no, then you won't have any hands to facepalm yourself lol




^^ just to say - this actually made me do a little lol :lol:


Edited by Skinty (11/21/13 03:25 AM)


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Skinty]
    #19168578 - 11/21/13 03:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:
shroomdust said:

Ok. If you all say that the needle will remain sterile just chillin in open air while it cools and there's no reason to cover it with anything then I won't cover it/wipe it with alcohol.




It should take barely a second for you to take the needle from the flame and stick it through the inoculation port. The one second it takes you to take the needle from the flame to port the needle will still be hot enough to kill any mold spores or air born contamination it may come into contact with.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #19168592 - 11/21/13 03:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Wiping a flame sterilized tool with an unsterile substance like alcohol is like wiping shit on your face after a shower.



:lol:  :cuteshit:


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: ghostshadow422]
    #19169003 - 11/21/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ghostshadow422 said:
you were once a noob too, still an asshole though it seems lol




:solidnod:

We were all noobs; being called a noob isn't an insult. I can't help what makes me laugh though. It's funny because I remember being the same way.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #19169018 - 11/21/13 08:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PirateSwazey said:
i've used a piece of a sponge soaked in alcohol right over my innoc port and had success in open air...even so i would always have to recommend using a SAB or glovebox:rasta:






Dont use a GB use a SAB especially for how cheap you can get a SAB you will have much more success in it


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kalypto]
    #19169103 - 11/21/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My microbiology classes made alcohol sound far, far more effective at killing microbes than you are all making it out to be. My microbiology professor said that microbes couldn't evolve to become alcohol resistant like they could with antibiotics because dousing them in alcohol is like dropping a nuclear bomb on them.

Not disagreeing that you should just push some solution out of the needle to cool it, but I definitely think the properties of alcohol are being understated.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: sytar]
    #19169117 - 11/21/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
My microbiology classes made alcohol sound far, far more effective at killing microbes than you are all making it out to be. My microbiology professor said that microbes couldn't evolve to become alcohol resistant like they could with antibiotics because dousing them in alcohol is like dropping a nuclear bomb on them.

Not disagreeing that you should just push some solution out of the needle to cool it, but I definitely think the properties of alcohol are being understated.




Alcohol is a surface cleaner so whatever you clean with alcohol may be clean , but as soon as it evaporates off of it , the surface is no longer sterile since contams can land on it , not to mention alcohol does not kill everything .

Flames kill EVERYTHING and remain sterile until you cool it down which is often right before the inoculation


Now I may be wrong but to my knowledge this is why we use flame when possible and alcohol when flame is not an option


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: sytar]
    #19169164 - 11/21/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
My microbiology classes made alcohol sound far, far more effective at killing microbes than you are all making it out to be. My microbiology professor said that microbes couldn't evolve to become alcohol resistant like they could with antibiotics because dousing them in alcohol is like dropping a nuclear bomb on them.

Not disagreeing that you should just push some solution out of the needle to cool it, but I definitely think the properties of alcohol are being understated.



For alcohol to have it's full effect the contaminant would have to be in direct contact with it for 10 minutes. There's plenty of time for things to get spread around. But the point of the link I posted is to show that there are indeed things whixh can survive alcohol completely.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kizzle]
    #19169171 - 11/21/13 09:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The more you know !

Had no clue about the ten minute thing


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: ghostshadow422]
    #19169221 - 11/21/13 10:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Flame needle = sterile

While it's hot put it into inoculation port

First drops of spores come out as steam the spores die from the heat and cool the needle

The next drop the spores live because the needle is cooled down since a needle is so small it has a very small thermal mass and will not hold heat very long

Or

Flame needle = sterile

Wipe with alcohol = sanitary but has the .01% crap on it now.
Chances are you'll be fine but why bother.


It's not rocket science.

It's in the let's grow mushroom videos that you should have watched.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19169362 - 11/21/13 10:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

OH man I feel stupid!
I didnt know you were supposed to put it in while hot , I thought It would just create a hole that wouldnt close up!

I always just put it right next to the spot ( like less than and inch) the cooled it and inoculated


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kalypto]
    #19169526 - 11/21/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

To nobody in particular:

There are many things that people get away with. There are a number of factors that contribute to the success or fail of a grow.

When someone suggests how to do something, that suggestion is for best chance of success. That does not necessarily mean some other way won't work. It just means it's what you should do to increase your chance of success.

Sometimes it's hard to tell who's opinion to listen to. Some opinions are based on lack of experience and seem logical. That's why you should include searches of posts by Trusted Cultivators.

Until your sterilized media becomes 100% colonized, it is very susceptible to contamination. Sterile conditions need to be maintained.

If you wipe your needle with alcohol, it is no longer sterile. That doesn't mean you are guaranteed to fail, but it does increase you chances of fail.

Again, some people get away with this practice, but to say it's best is absolutely wrong.

Because this topic has been talked to death many times, you can easily find similar debates by using the search feature. In your searches, you may notice a pattern arise,..noobs think wiping after flaming is good practice and people with experience trying to correct them.

For best chances of success, flame sterilize your needle and inoculate in a SAB or flowhood. My opinion is not just being pulled right out of my ass. It's an opinion commonly shared by many TC's and experienced well respect members.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19169562 - 11/21/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The TC's rock and there are others you will notice who post often and post things that many people agree with and work well , I myself am not even there , I like to spout ideas out and thoughts but always try and follow it with its my opinion or thoughts or based on my experience.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kalypto]
    #19169859 - 11/21/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kalypto]
    #19169916 - 11/21/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kalypto said:
OH man I feel stupid!
I didnt know you were supposed to put it in while hot , I thought It would just create a hole that wouldnt close up!

I always just put it right next to the spot ( like less than and inch) the cooled it and inoculated




Don't feel stupid. I think everyone does stuff like that. I remember the first time I inoculated jars I blew on the needle to cool it down. :facepalm3:

I got lucky, no contamination.  But after I did more reading I worked up the sack to just go straight from the flame to the port.

There are definitely things in this hobby that are counter intuitive to what our gut and experience tells us.  Most of us have only high school lab experience which didn't involve injecting sterile media.  It's up to each of us to trust that the science should dictate the technique, not our guts.

:havesomescience:


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19169931 - 11/21/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Quote:

Kalypto said:
OH man I feel stupid!
I didnt know you were supposed to put it in while hot , I thought It would just create a hole that wouldnt close up!

I always just put it right next to the spot ( like less than and inch) the cooled it and inoculated




Don't feel stupid. I think everyone does stuff like that. I remember the first time I inoculated jars I blew on the needle to cool it down. :facepalm3:

I got lucky, no contamination.  But after I did more reading I worked up the sack to just go straight from the flame to the port.

There are definitely things in this hobby that are counter intuitive to what our gut and experience tells us.  Most of us have only high school lab experience which didn't involve injecting sterile media.  It's up to each of us to trust that the science should dictate the technique, not our guts.

:havesomescience:





True that


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kalypto]
    #19170598 - 11/21/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Mistakes and lack of knowledge don't make you stupid. The inability to learn is what makes a person stupid. You're not stupid.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19171485 - 11/21/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OH man I feel stupid!
I didnt know you were supposed to put it in while hot , I thought It would just create a hole that wouldnt close up!

I always just put it right next to the spot ( like less than and inch) the cooled it and inoculated



If you're using a self-sealing port excessive heat can damage them. It can still be hot, just needs to cool enough so it's not red-hot. Heat tolerance may vary depending on what it's made of though.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kizzle]
    #19171490 - 11/21/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Cool the needle BEFORE penetrating the SHIP....exponge a drop or 2 until you hear a sizzle, then inject.

That split second or 2 is not going to matter.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #19172093 - 11/21/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I had always gone red hot right through SHIP when I used needles. SHIP is made of silicone or RTV they both withstand the heat very well. Perhaps it's not the best way, but it works and SHIP's have a lifetime of needle pokes anyway, they're super easy to tear out and replace.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19172423 - 11/21/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I put the red hot needle through the SHIP and it would only last a few runs before I had a hole you could drip water through.

It's funny to look back on the stuff I used to do to reduce contamination risk. Looking back, I can see how it was actually my technique that I needed to work on. A SHIP was never gonna save me. MS was always a roll of the dice.

Now I see other people going through the same learning process. Some things can't be taught, they have to be learned through experience.

The 2 best decisions I ever made was getting in to agar and proper pasteurization.

Some of you may think I'm an asshole sometimes, but if you ever only take my word on one thing, make it this:

If you want to be successful, do what successful people do, even if you don't understand why. Learn to recognize who the successful people are. Perfect technique and don't rely on chemicals. Respect the process.

Okay, that was 5 things. If you ever only take my word on 5 things, make it that stuff.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19172724 - 11/21/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I had always gone red hot right through SHIP when I used needles. SHIP is made of silicone or RTV they both withstand the heat very well. Perhaps it's not the best way, but it works and SHIP's have a lifetime of needle pokes anyway, they're super easy to tear out and replace.



Me too, but it's because the needle had always cooled enough by the time it reached the jar (maybe 3-4 seconds). After hearing claims it could damage them I was able to intentionally burn one by flaming the needle closer to a lid to verify it can happen.


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Edited by Kizzle (11/21/13 09:27 PM)


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #19181747 - 11/24/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Cool the needle BEFORE penetrating the SHIP....exponge a drop or 2 until you hear a sizzle, then inject.

That split second or 2 is not going to matter.



Awesome to know I have not been screwing my grows with this


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kalypto]
    #19182497 - 11/24/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You use an SAB anyway though don't you Kalypto? The time to reach into but should be enough for it to cool but I suppose it depends on exactly how hot you heated it to.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kizzle]
    #19182662 - 11/24/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I heat red hot

And yes i still use a SAB unfortunately


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kalypto]
    #19182670 - 11/24/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I always inoculate in open air and have never had any contams.

Maybe you live in some place dirty. I don't know.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: usnXe6K]
    #19182679 - 11/24/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

usnXe6K said:
I always inoculate in open air and have never had any contams.

Maybe you live in some place dirty. I don't know.





Ugh Ive inoculated being super careful in a SAB taking like every precaution and still got them and you can do it in open air and be fine >.> *pout*


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: usnXe6K]
    #19182681 - 11/24/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kalypto said:
And yes i still use a SAB unfortunately



I have no idea why that would be unfortunate....

All I use is my SAB and have no plans on building a flow hood.....ever.

All you need is a big ass comfortable SAB and good sterile technique and you can accomplish ANYTHING in this hobby.

Quote:

usnXe6K said:
I always inoculate in open air and have never had any contams.

Maybe you live in some place dirty. I don't know.



With cakes that have dry verm layers and grain jars that have SHIPs you could get away with open air inoculations.

Is it recommended? No.

Is it good practice? No.

With anything else in this hobby(like agar, G2G transfers, etc) it would be pretty stupid not to use a SAB.....


Edited by PussyFart (11/24/13 01:33 PM)


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #19182689 - 11/24/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

Kalypto said:
And yes i still use a SAB unfortunately



I have no idea why that would be unfortunate....

All I use is my SAB and have no plans on building a flow hood.....ever.

All you need is a big ass comfortable SAB and good sterile technique and you can accomplish ANYTHING in this hobby.

Quote:

usnXe6K said:
I always inoculate in open air and have never had any contams.

Maybe you live in some place dirty. I don't know.



With cakes that have dry verm layers and grain jars that have SHIPs you could get away with open air inoculations.

Is it recommended? No.

Is it good practice? No.

With anything else in this hobby(like agar, G2G transfers, etc) it would be pretty stupid not to use a SAB.....




I would prefer and LFH and I cant get a SAB thats comfortable to work in , Ive made a couple with to no avail


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kalypto]
    #19182713 - 11/24/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Like I said before. It probably depends on the dirtiness of your inoculation location.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kalypto]
    #19182758 - 11/24/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

im a noob and my sterile procedure usually consists of cleaning my sab thoroughly with soapy hot water leaving a lil on the floor of my sab i then wait 5 mins for everything to settle  then wiping everything down with 70% alcohol wipes before putting it into my sab wait another 5 mins and i get my spore syringe and clean it with 70% alcohol and wrap a alcohol wipe around the needle tip and before i inoculate i flame sterilize the needle and in between each jar if i have to put the needle down for any reason i wrap the tip in a fresh alcohol wipe but i try to do it as fast as possible to reduce contam possibility's


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Ultron]
    #19182763 - 11/24/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i do all this in a draft free room that's been cleaned before hand. If i were to take it one step further i probably would build me a tape room


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: usnXe6K]
    #19182769 - 11/24/13 01:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

A quick tip from My SAB
Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Don't get too caught up in exact measurements. You mostly want to go by feel. Every SAB will be slightly different based on your body size.

I simply put the tote in to the position I would mostly be using it in. I sat it on my table and sat in my chair. This is where I'll be doing my sterile work.

Then, I put my arms straight down to my side and then just bent at the elbows so my hands were straight out in front of me. I eyeballed were my middle finger lined up with the tote and made that my holes' center. This is the best way to figure out what the most natural place for the holes should go.

The 2 armholes are shoulder width apart. Some people don't realize how important it is to make the center of the holes about shoulder width apart. This gives it a nice comfortable feel.





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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Ultron]
    #19182773 - 11/24/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

To inoculate jars? That's amazing. I do it in the kitchen open air. No problems. I've done it at least 10 times and 0 contams. I clean my house regularly, maybe that's why.


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Offlineblueconfusion
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: usnXe6K]
    #19182822 - 11/24/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I built a GB when I first started and I hated it so I did open air inoculations for a while and I didn't have any problems at first, but then contams like crazy.  So I dug my box back out to try it again now I love it and will never look back.  It's just a matter of getting comfortable and understanding that success depends on what you put into your projects.


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Offlinekrikkrew
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: blueconfusion]
    #19183027 - 11/24/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You can never be too careful.


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: usnXe6K]
    #19183490 - 11/24/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

usnXe6K said:
Like I said before. It probably depends on the dirtiness of your inoculation location.




:whateveryousayfreak:

Right because everyone who gets contamination lives in a filthy home with animals running around and shitting everywhere.

Sterile technique obviously has nothing to do with it.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19183502 - 11/24/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Obviously....duh!


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