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shroomdust
Psilovibin



Registered: 09/04/13
Posts: 114
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Inoculating safely without a SAB
#19166478 - 11/20/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I was just thinking of a new tek to noc up our jars... Wipe the jars down with alcohol, put a new ziplock bag over each jar with a rubber band to seal it up (maybe even putting an alcohol soaked cotton round in the bag too), flame sterilize the needle between each jar (letting it cool in an alcohol soaked towel) before you push it through the baggie after swabbing the outside with alcohol. You would only need to stick the needle through the bag once per jar. Seems a LOT safer than inoculating in open air, inexpensive, and much less bulky than using a GB. I'm going to try it tonight on 12 jars. I'll report back with my success or failure but, I'm pretty sure this is a great idea that will work flawlessly. Your thoughts?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
#19166485 - 11/20/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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don't cool it with alcohol just wait or let the first drop cool it
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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dutchfunkle
subowski


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 132
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: cronicr]
#19166504 - 11/20/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Open air innoculations do work, just make sure you dissenfect and have no air currents; rendering ziplock bags totally useless
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: dutchfunkle]
#19166600 - 11/20/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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what they said. Alcohol is sanitizing The flame sterilizes the needle. Don't work backwards alcohol then flame if you want to use alcohol at all on the needle. If you don't want to make a SAB you flame in a draft free room and hope for the best (which usually works well) but some people like to take the variables out. I don't recommend using needles at all and doing g2g or agar wedge inoculations in a SAB or LFH
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PirateSwazey



Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: dutchfunkle]
#19166623 - 11/20/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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i've used a piece of a sponge soaked in alcohol right over my innoc port and had success in open air...even so i would always have to recommend using a SAB or glovebox
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shroomdust
Psilovibin



Registered: 09/04/13
Posts: 114
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PirateSwazey]
#19167004 - 11/20/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: don't cool it with alcohol just wait or let the first drop cool it
Why not? I feel like letting it cool on its own will give mold spores more time/chance to land on the needle/syringe. Once heated red hot, it's sterile.. Covering something sterile in alcohol couldn't possibly infect it. I welcome you to prove me wrong though.
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dutchfunkle said: Open air innoculations do work, just make sure you dissenfect and have no air currents; rendering ziplock bags totally useless
I never said they didn't work. I know open air inoculations CAN work as I've mostly successfully done a few myself BUT, you have to go through a lot more trouble lysoling the fuck out of everything and making sure there are zero air currents (which is practically impossible in your common household room), which means turning all fans/etc off and waiting around for an hour or longer for the air to settle. And even if the air and everything is lysol'd and still, you know there are still some* mold spores floating around or resting in some little nook and cranny that your body movements might kick up right onto your jar lid as you stick the needle in...
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bodhisatta said: Alcohol is sanitizing The flame sterilizes the needle. Don't work backwards alcohol then flame if you want to use alcohol at all on the needle.
Hence why you sterilize first and then keep it sanitary with the use of alcohol. It's not backwards, it's proper. There would be no reason to alcohol and then flame.. San·i·tar·y (s n -t r ) adj. 1. Of or relating to health or the protection of health. 2. Free from elements, such as filth or pathogens, that endanger health; hygienic:
Now if you were trying to sterilize your needle with alcohol alone then that's a different story and is not sterilizing and could jeopordize your grow. However, it still works fairly well to kill most bacteria/contams and I highly recommend it's use in nearly every step of the way in the inoculation procedure.
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bodhisatta said: I don't recommend using needles at all and doing g2g or agar wedge inoculations in a SAB or LFH
Trust me, if I could I would but, that's a whole nother ballgame and some people just can't go that route. For starters, I don't even own a PC.
Now, does anyone understand my reasoning behind this or is it really not as genius as I think it is? Isn't this tek accomplishing the same thing as SAB or GB? I appreciate the input/discussion guys. Keep it comin'!
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
#19167079 - 11/20/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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i say no alcohol after you flame because your taking backward steps, it doesn't get any more sterile then red hotQuote:
shroomdust said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Alcohol is sanitizing The flame sterilizes the needle. Don't work backwards alcohol then flame if you want to use alcohol at all on the needle.
Hence why you sterilize first and then keep it sanitary with the use of alcohol. It's not backwards, it's proper. There would be no reason to alcohol and then flame.. San·i·tar·y (s n -t r ) adj. 1. Of or relating to health or the protection of health. 2. Free from elements, such as filth or pathogens, that endanger health; hygienic:
Now if you were trying to sterilize your needle with alcohol alone then that's a different story and is not sterilizing and could jeopordize your grow. However, it still works fairly well to kill most bacteria/contams and I highly recommend it's use in nearly every step of the way in the inoculation procedure.
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bodhisatta said: I don't recommend using needles at all and doing g2g or agar wedge inoculations in a SAB or LFH
Trust me, if I could I would but, that's a whole nother ballgame and some people just can't go that route. For starters, I don't even own a PC.
Now, does anyone understand my reasoning behind this or is it really not as genius as I think it is? Isn't this tek accomplishing the same thing as SAB or GB? I appreciate the input/discussion guys. Keep it comin'! 
again doesn't get any more sterile then red hot, alcohol sanitizes and doesn't kill airbourne contams, unless bacteria is jumping at you then just flame
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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PirateSwazey



Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
#19167106 - 11/20/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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you're really over thinking this thing brudda. if you're that worried about a sterile inoculation on a PF jar just buy a sterilite tub from target for $12 and cut some arm holes in it...you're gonna need one for g2g transfers down the road anyway. also there's really no need to wipe your needle down with alcohol after you flame it, once its red hot the thing is already sterile.
once u start working with grain you'll never really worry about using a needle anyway..i've probably used 2 syringes in the last 2 years
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SamhainJ
I wanna rock out, in my dreams

Registered: 05/16/04
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: cronicr]
#19167118 - 11/20/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have never used a sab to nocc up jars or bags, i just make sure theres no air blowing in the room and flame the needle, wash my hands in alcohol and alchol wipe the needle while its glowing.. ive been told not to wipe with an alcohol wipe on the glowing needle, but have only had a few contamed jars out of hundreds of bags/jars which is most likely due to innsufficiant jar sterilization..
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
#19167143 - 11/20/13 07:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think you'll find the baggie to be a bigger pain in the ass than a SAB.
The baggie is going to suck air in when you handle it, thus suck contams right in. You would likely have better luck in open air.
Don't swab your flame sterilized needle with alcohol. Your needle can't be more sterile than when red hot. Wiping with alcohol makes it not sterile anymore. Wiping with alcohol will render it sanitized. Sterile is cleaner than sanitized. Sanitized is not recommended for your needle.
Sanitizing for health is okay because we already have antibodies to fight of contaminants. Your highly nutritious sterile substrate/spawn jar does not have this luxury. Anything that gets in there is gonna grow.
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shroomdust
Psilovibin



Registered: 09/04/13
Posts: 114
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: SpitballJedi]
#19167282 - 11/20/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: i say no alcohol after you flame because your taking backward steps, it doesn't get any more sterile then red hot
Backwards how?? I just don't understand that. I agree it doesn't get any more sterile than red hot but, the alcohol is an effective way to cool the needle and KEEP IT STERILE until you use it. You can't tell me just because you heat a needle red hot it will remain sterile in open air indefinately after it has cooled down...
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again doesn't get any more sterile then red hot, alcohol sanitizes and doesn't kill airbourne contams, unless bacteria is jumping at you then just flame
Alcohol may not kill airborne contams (though I doubt this is entirely true) but, it can PROTECT against them landing on your needle or whatever. Do contams live in alcohol or is alcohol considered sterile/resistant to contamination? The point is that the alcohol soaked paper towel offers a clean covering for the needle before you stick it in the jar and at the same time cools it down so you don't kill all your spores. It couldn't hurt..could only help. Not like it's a chore to do or expensive. It may not be needed but I don't think it's going backwards.
again.. San·i·tar·y (s n -t r ) adj. 1. Of or relating to health or the PROTECTION of health. 2. Free from elements, such as filth or pathogens, that endanger health; hygienic:
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
#19167387 - 11/20/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why not? I feel like letting it cool on its own will give mold spores more time/chance to land on the needle/syringe. Once heated red hot, it's sterile.. Covering something sterile in alcohol couldn't possibly infect it. I welcome you to prove me wrong though.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42240430/
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kizzle]
#19167396 - 11/20/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wiping a flame sterilized tool with an unsterile substance like alcohol is like wiping shit on your face after a shower.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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shroomdust
Psilovibin



Registered: 09/04/13
Posts: 114
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
#19167402 - 11/20/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: you're really over thinking this thing brudda. if you're that worried about a sterile inoculation on a PF jar just buy a sterilite tub from target for $12 and cut some arm holes in it...you're gonna need one for g2g transfers down the road anyway. also there's really no need to wipe your needle down with alcohol after you flame it, once its red hot the thing is already sterile.
once u start working with grain you'll never really worry about using a needle anyway..i've probably used 2 syringes in the last 2 years
I don't think I'm over thinking anything.. Maybe you're underthinking things? It's a very small step to take to ensure keeping things sterile while cooling the needle faster, and wiping the messy soot off. Like I said, the reason I thought of ziplocks is because then I don't need a big bulky tub with giant holes cut in it just sitting around 99% of the time taking up space and being useless. When it comes time to do g2g, I will make one then as it will fit those needs perfectly but, until then I'm sure my idea will accomplish the same thing as a SAB making it better than open air inoculation and it's very cheap, disposable, and not at all hard to do...like I said it's less effort than lysoling every square inch of a room and waiting hours for the air to be still (which it will never truly be in an open room anyway). What's wrong with that?
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ghostshadow422
Stranger


Registered: 10/02/13
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: Kizzle]
#19167421 - 11/20/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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alcohol from a bottle soaked up into a cotton ball isn't alcohol pads, I dunno I flame sterilize then wipe the needle down with a soaked ball to cool the needle quickly
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: shroomdust]
#19167427 - 11/20/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomdust said: I don't think I'm over thinking anything.. Maybe you're underthinking things? It's a very small step to take to ensure keeping things sterile while cooling the needle faster, and wiping the messy soot off.
At least the soot it sterile, the alcohol is not.
Alcohol does not kill mold spores....heat does.
You could be wiping mold spores all over your clean needle....think about it...it makes sense.
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shroomdust said: I don't need a big bulky tub with giant holes cut in it just sitting around 99% of the time taking up space and being useless.
I use mine for storage when it's not in use.....
You need to look at this hobby in a different way, with an open mind bro.
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shroomdust said: When it comes time to do g2g, I will make one then as it will fit those needs perfectly but, until then I'm sure my idea will accomplish the same thing as a SAB making it better than open air inoculation and it's very cheap, disposable, and not at all hard to do...like I said it's less effort than lysoling every square inch of a room and waiting hours for the air to be still (which it will never truly be in an open room anyway). What's wrong with that?
Nothing, sounds good.
Just dont wipe your needles after flaming...that is just bad practice.
The first few drops of spores will cool the needle, then the rest will flow contam free.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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ghostshadow422
Stranger


Registered: 10/02/13
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
#19167454 - 11/20/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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sorry for the jack but I always wondered this anyways, so it's ok to heat the shit out of the needle then just inject spores and/or LC and it won't affect the solution?
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: PussyFart]
#19167463 - 11/20/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Watching noobs try to wrap their heads around this is hilarious. Let them do what they want.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
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Quote:
ghostshadow422 said: sorry for the jack but I always wondered this anyways, so it's ok to heat the shit out of the needle then just inject spores and/or LC and it won't affect the solution?
No, the spores will be fine.
This has been discussed to death.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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ghostshadow422
Stranger


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Re: Inoculating safely without a SAB [Re: SpitballJedi]
#19167473 - 11/20/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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you were once a noob too, still an asshole though it seems lol
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