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Draenei
Rising2Dreamz


Registered: 06/18/13
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Marijuana is a gift from divinity
#19166256 - 11/20/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I thought of all this while I was high.
Designated for intelligent beings (us) like other sources. Male plant for the amazing uses of hemp fiber. The male representing strength.
The female plant used to treat a wide range of (physical, emotional) medical aliments, being effective. The female represents nurturance.
Also weeds philosophy see the big picture effect was meant for humans as guidance to understand things they've overlooked in their life.
The bud is meant to be a consumable fruit, just looking at the nug structure, how it can be broken down with fingers. How it can be crossbred easily with making new phenotypes, unique amazing smells that are pleasent, same with the taste.
The legalization movement is happening so rapidly, because of inspired change by divinity.
0 people dead = God aided commodity
Lmk what you guys think.
Edited by Draenei (11/20/13 04:27 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei]
#19166285 - 11/20/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is the destroying angel also a divine gift? Why or why not?
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Draenei
Rising2Dreamz


Registered: 06/18/13
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Is the destroying angel also a divine gift? Why or why not?
Certain things are for humans, just like other life forms.
Angel of death is just a creation on its own obv not meant for us. Apart of the yin and yang model.
Theirs no guide book to life. Like your body and outerspace. Its us to figure this stuff out.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei]
#19166416 - 11/20/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I thought that was pretty dumb when I was high.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander] 1
#19166446 - 11/20/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here is more proof of God and divine plants:
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Here is more proof of God and divine plants:
I am convinced
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Diploid
Cuban



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Posts: 19,274
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei] 1
#19166549 - 11/20/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The bud is meant to be a consumable fruit, just looking at the nug structure, how it can be broken down with fingers. How it can be crossbred easily
Bananas are also a gift from our heavenly father:
Edit: eh, OC beat me to the punch. That's what I get for posting while stoned.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Diploid]
#19166570 - 11/20/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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See my 'Great Minds' thread.
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Draenei
Rising2Dreamz


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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Diploid]
#19166593 - 11/20/13 05:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Its so obvious.
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei] 1
#19166616 - 11/20/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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How is it obvious?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Me_Roy
Stranger
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei] 1
#19166659 - 11/20/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: The bud is meant to be a consumable fruit, just looking at the nug structure, how it can be broken down with fingers. How it can be crossbred easily
Bananas are also a gift from our heavenly father:
Edit: eh, OC beat me to the punch. That's what I get for posting while stoned. 
Quote:
Draenei said: Its so obvious.
OP, you know that the banana as it exists today is the product of selective breeding?
The same is true of marijuana. Have a look at Michael Pollan's book The Botany of Desire. It's a good read.
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Draenei
Rising2Dreamz


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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Diploid]
#19166662 - 11/20/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Lol @ atheist, they think their smart for debunking organized religon. Im with them on that.. But their understanding stops their.
Also no ego involved on here.
All is one metaphysically source/divinity or god however you want to refer. Learn about the flower of life. trippy
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Me_Roy] 1
#19166664 - 11/20/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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--------------------
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Me_Roy
Stranger
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 3,230
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Me_Roy
Stranger
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei] 1
#19166681 - 11/20/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Draenei said: Lol @ atheist, they think their smart for debunking organized religon. Im with them on that.. But their understanding stops their.
Also no ego involved on here.
All is one metaphysically source/divinity or god however you want to refer. Learn about the flower of life. trippy

Is rape part of the flower of life?
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Draenei
Rising2Dreamz


Registered: 06/18/13
Posts: 223
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Me_Roy]
#19166705 - 11/20/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Me_Roy said:
Quote:
Draenei said: Lol @ atheist, they think their smart for debunking organized religon. Im with them on that.. But their understanding stops their.
Also no ego involved on here.
All is one metaphysically source/divinity or god however you want to refer. Learn about the flower of life. trippy

Is rape part of the flower of life?
Thats a souls action. troll
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei]
#19166715 - 11/20/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Draenei said: Lol @ atheist, they think their smart for debunking organized religon. Im with them on that.. But their understanding stops their.
Also no ego involved on here.
All is one metaphysically source/divinity or god however you want to refer. Learn about the flower of life. trippy

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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei]
#19166716 - 11/20/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
they think theirthey're smart for debunking organized religon religion. ImI'm with them on that.. But their understanding stops their there.
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Draenei
Rising2Dreamz


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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Me_Roy]
#19166733 - 11/20/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
OP, you know that the banana as it exists today is the product of selective breeding?
The same is true of marijuana. Have a look at Michael Pollan's book The Botany of Desire. It's a good read.
The yellow was a phenotype mutant that spawned to a jamaican guys field in the early 1800s. It came off of red and green variety that have been around couple thousand years atleast.
Weed still weed it was meant to be able to breed stronger and better.
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Draenei
Rising2Dreamz


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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
they think theirthey're smart for debunking organized religon religion. ImI'm with them on that.. But their understanding stops their there.
Grammar isnt a focus troll.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei] 2
#19166759 - 11/20/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Draenei said:
Weed still weed it was meant to be able to breed stronger and better.
Proof and sources or gtfo
Quote:
Draenei said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
they think theirthey're smart for debunking organized religon religion. ImI'm with them on that.. But their understanding stops their there.
Grammar isnt a focus troll.
This is a debate orientated forum not OTD.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Me_Roy] 1
#19166764 - 11/20/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Have a look at Michael Pollan's book The Botany of Desire. It's a good read.
Michael Pollen? I noticed that the latest Spiderman movie was directed by Marc Webb. Anyone else see a pattern here?
--------------------
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei]
#19166772 - 11/20/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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God inspires my posts which is why they are way more corrector.
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Me_Roy
Stranger
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Yes. A divine pattern.
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johnm214


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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei] 3
#19167721 - 11/20/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Draenei said: Lol @ atheist, they think their smart for debunking organized religon. Im with them on that.. But their understanding stops their.
Also no ego involved on here.
All is one metaphysically source/divinity or god however you want to refer. Learn about the flower of life. trippy

Ok, that picture convinced me. 
I'm on board.
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Me_Roy
Stranger
Registered: 07/30/02
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: johnm214]
#19167872 - 11/20/13 10:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Use your botanical roots Don't eat mechanical fruits -Black Uhuru
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Me_Roy]
#19167891 - 11/20/13 10:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Way back in prehistory, the merry juanas knew that someday LEDs would be invented:
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Have a look at Michael Pollan's book The Botany of Desire. It's a good read.
Michael Pollen? I noticed that the latest Spiderman movie was directed by Marc Webb. Anyone else see a pattern here?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: cez]
#19168076 - 11/20/13 11:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I knew you would get it.
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei]
#19168752 - 11/21/13 06:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I always believed that Maryjane is a gift from the Goddess Creatrix Herself. Pot is like smoking the divine pubis of Her Holiness' snatch. It aids to making love really well. There's nothing like getting high and making love. Pot is the best empathogen - it gets people imaginative with their feelings. Enhances intuition.
Pot increases brain function in the less used frontal cerebellum. It's not a brain stem, or monoamine inhibition agent like SSRIs. Has little to do with acetylcholine and glutamine. It has some unique mental stimulant qualities not exhibited by other drugs.
-------------------- ...or something
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: eve69] 4
#19168800 - 11/21/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
eve69 said: I always believed that Maryjane is a gift from the Goddess Creatrix Herself. Pot is like smoking the divine pubis of Her Holiness' snatch. It aids to making love really well. There's nothing like getting high and making love. Pot is the best empathogen - it gets people imaginative with their feelings. Enhances intuition.
Pot increases brain function in the less used frontal cerebellum. It's not a brain stem, or monoamine inhibition agent like SSRIs. Has little to do with acetylcholine and glutamine. It has some unique mental stimulant qualities not exhibited by other drugs.
I didn't always believe this but I do now. Humans are mostly hopeless idiots and pot only exacerbates the condition.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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usulpsychonaut


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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19173251 - 11/22/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So my condition is exacerbating. Could it be any other way?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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no
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
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Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19173424 - 11/22/13 02:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bloody good, thank you kind sir
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19173663 - 11/22/13 05:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
eve69 said: Pot increases brain function in the less used frontal cerebellum. It's not a brain stem, or monoamine inhibition agent like SSRIs. Has little to do with acetylcholine and glutamine. It has some unique mental stimulant qualities not exhibited by other drugs.
I didn't always believe this but I do now. Humans are mostly hopeless idiots and pot only exacerbates the condition.
But that hopeless in love quality is a human's most endearing.
-------------------- ...or something
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: eve69]
#19173855 - 11/22/13 07:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse] 1
#19174805 - 11/22/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The legalisation movement is inspired by the sheer amount of people smoking it.
All this justification of drugs with divinity and whatnot is just a little outdated imo...
If people smoked it once every eight months during a certain period with a certain mindset and emotional intention, as form of a personal ritual of sorts; then i suppose you could start viewing your actions and the effects of the substance as 'divine'.
Because imo, divinity is a relationship and the relationship most people have with cannabis (and many other drugs for that matter) is far from a divine one, no matter how inspired they are by the idea. Almost no one take it further than simple indulgence and abuse 
even mckenna, the over-kill of psychedelic spirituality has said "the problem with cannabis is that people smoke it too much and too often".
so, yeah...
--------------------
Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII: "Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions." "So you believe in intensions?" "No. I believe in being genuine." "The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19175643 - 11/22/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I didn't always believe this but I do now. Humans are mostly hopeless idiots and pot only exacerbates the condition.
 Pot amplifies the negatives. It made me paranoid (hash on the other hand, did not). Now, however, is neither the time to wax paranoid, nor to court dementia.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Pot just makes me feel good, no bullshit.
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HerbJunkette
Stranger



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Repertoire89]
#19175722 - 11/22/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't understand why everything on Earth has to be so...mystified. Can't it just be a plant?
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The world doesn't belong to us, we belong to it. Always have, Always will. We belong to the world. We belong to the community of life on this planet- It doesn't belong to us. We got confused about that, now it's time to set the record straight. *Daniel Quinn*
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: HerbJunkette]
#19176439 - 11/22/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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--------------------
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Deviate
newbie
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: HerbJunkette]
#19199274 - 11/28/13 03:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
HerbJunkette said: I don't understand why everything on Earth has to be so...mystified. Can't it just be a plant?
If you want to look at it as just a plant, no one is stopping you. However, the psychoactive effects give it a greater significance to many people. It is a sacred plant, because it can lead to degrees of awakened consciousness.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Deviate]
#19199298 - 11/28/13 03:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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--------------------
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:

Your plant looks like something that guy would have been proud to grow.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:

Oww.
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You are not special
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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I used to truly enjoy smoking marijuana. Never had any real downsides; I could get primo Cali medical bud for cheap, and it would marvelously enhance any sensory experience I indulged in whilst high: be it eating delicious food, having sex, or listening to music.
Now, however, I smoke more than a few puffs and I feel paranoid, anxious and overly self-conscious with a side of social anxiety to boot. I hear this is a pretty common happening too--something about years of use lowering the activation threshold of the amygdala when activated by THC. All I know is I miss being able to enjoy that sweet, sweet herb.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Hobozen


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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: deCypher]
#19203117 - 11/28/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I get paranoid/anxious if I don't smoke it everyday, and it has to be a Sativa with a high CBD content. Everyday or none at all.
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Deviate]
#19203387 - 11/29/13 01:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
HerbJunkette said: I don't understand why everything on Earth has to be so...mystified. Can't it just be a plant?
If you want to look at it as just a plant, no one is stopping you. However, the psychoactive effects give it a greater significance to many people. It is a sacred plant, because it can lead to degrees of awakened consciousness.
An awakened consciousness would see things for what they are.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: deCypher]
#19203459 - 11/29/13 02:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: I used to truly enjoy smoking marijuana. Never had any real downsides; I could get primo Cali medical bud for cheap, and it would marvelously enhance any sensory experience I indulged in whilst high: be it eating delicious food, having sex, or listening to music.
Now, however, I smoke more than a few puffs and I feel paranoid, anxious and overly self-conscious with a side of social anxiety to boot. I hear this is a pretty common happening too--something about years of use lowering the activation threshold of the amygdala when activated by THC. All I know is I miss being able to enjoy that sweet, sweet herb. 
There's Something about Mary
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Draenei] 1
#19204597 - 11/29/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh please. I stopped using cannabis around 1979 after 10 years of use. Stoners always want to justify being stoned. I don't want my pilot, surgeon, physicians, dentist, broker, accountant, or any other responsible professional whom I rely on to be a stoner. "Divinity" has not incarnated as a common planetary weed, albeit with some recognizably medicinal properties. Leave "Divinity" out of your stoned revelations. Cannabis is not a sacrament, it's a lesser opium of the people, a consolation for non-achievement, and one of the reasons downtrodden and oppressed segments of society remain downtrodden and depressed. They've become too damn apathetic to get schooled or retooled to do much of anything. Open your eyes and ears around stoners - they're not getting smarter from being stoned, more insightful, or clear-minded - just the opposite. It's a wonder the powers-that-be haven't legalized it decades ago as a strategy to keep the multitudes just where they are with no threat to instigating change in society other than demanding that Nabisco keep cranking out those addictive Oreo cookies.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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DirtyTomFlint
( ಥـْـِـِـِـْಥ)




Registered: 11/26/13
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I didn't read the replies but I like this a lot! Quite insightful yet simple.
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   Know Your Body, Know Your Mind, Know Your Substance, Know Your Source
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Oh please. I stopped using cannabis around 1979 after 10 years of use. Stoners always want to justify being stoned. I don't want my pilot, surgeon, physicians, dentist, broker, accountant, or any other responsible professional whom I rely on to be a stoner. "Divinity" has not incarnated as a common planetary weed, albeit with some recognizably medicinal properties. Leave "Divinity" out of your stoned revelations. Cannabis is not a sacrament, it's a lesser opium of the people, a consolation for non-achievement, and one of the reasons downtrodden and oppressed segments of society remain downtrodden and depressed. They've become too damn apathetic to get schooled or retooled to do much of anything. Open your eyes and ears around stoners - they're not getting smarter from being stoned, more insightful, or clear-minded - just the opposite. It's a wonder the powers-that-be haven't legalized it decades ago as a strategy to keep the multitudes just where they are with no threat to instigating change in society other than demanding that Nabisco keep cranking out those addictive Oreo cookies. 
Just because Cannabis has the potential to be abused, does not mean that it does not possess uplifting and sacramental properties to some. Your post reeks of one-sided bias worse than a stoner's carpet that has absorbed many a spilt pint of bong water.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: deCypher]
#19205225 - 11/29/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think that of the total percentage of stoners polled 99.9% said weed was better for depression than antidepressants. Of those polled, .001% said the antidepressants worked okay when mixed with cannabis. .00001% said, 'huh,' free pot is a better antidepressant than medical commercial pot. ("If they gave it away everyone would be happy-No brainer really, huh") Survey outcome, stoners when on antidepressants without pot feel majorly bummed, but they snap right out of it with some pot. "We're going to name this the Wavy Gravy Effect." We hypothesize that if 25% of a population is stoned there will be less traffic accidents and less violent theft as well. *
Extrapolation of the effect goes on to state that, "...when combined with girls going topless violent crime is decreased another 5 inches(sic), I mean percent."
*Should We Get High on Bourbon Street Dooney Chase - Bayou Rat Books - 2011
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Posts: 14,279
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: deCypher]
#19205348 - 11/29/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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"REEKS!" Sacrament of the Stoner god! 'O Happy Daze, When Ganja Burned, When it Burned, O I'm SO Burned Out...I'm Burned Out..." [Sung to the tune of 'When Jesus Washed'].
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: DirtyTomFlint] 1
#19205389 - 11/29/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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DatIslandLife said: I didn't read the replies but I like this a lot! Quite insightful yet simple.
Medicines should be used medicinally. Chronic use of "Chronic" is just addiction, addiction is slavery and slavery is the enemy of freedom. However, I think everyone who is in prison for possession, use, or sale of cannabis should be released immediately! Of course, if you are stoned and hit someone while driving under the influence, then "Go directly to jail, do not pass Go, do not collect $200." But if you suffer from relentless anxiety, and IF cannabis relieves it (instead of evoking it, or paranoid states) then stay inside and take your medicine. Of course, I'd recommend psychotherapy from a decent therapist to get at the root of the problem instead of just treating the symptoms. Cannabis might be less addictive than benzodiazepines, but it's still addictive, it still seals brain cells in amber, slowing transmission speed of neuronal functions, and unless you're using a vaporizer, there is gonna be smoke damage to delicate lung tissue. If you want to be a 'career' stoner, helping nobody, including yourself, just stay off the roads, and do not show me your cardboard sign saying that you'll work for ganja.
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/29/13 03:54 PM)
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HerbJunkette
Stranger



Registered: 10/11/13
Posts: 91
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Deviate]
#19205504 - 11/29/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Deviate said:
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HerbJunkette said: I don't understand why everything on Earth has to be so...mystified. Can't it just be a plant?
If you want to look at it as just a plant, no one is stopping you. However, the psychoactive effects give it a greater significance to many people. It is a sacred plant, because it can lead to degrees of awakened consciousness.
Sure, so the effects of LSD can do the same thing. I'm just gonna go out and say that LSD is a gift from the divine as well because Albert Hoffman was an angel sent down to help humanity.
--------------------
The world doesn't belong to us, we belong to it. Always have, Always will. We belong to the world. We belong to the community of life on this planet- It doesn't belong to us. We got confused about that, now it's time to set the record straight. *Daniel Quinn*
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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MarkostheGnostic said: Oh please. I stopped using cannabis around 1979 after 10 years of use. Stoners always want to justify being stoned. I don't want my pilot, surgeon, physicians, dentist, broker, accountant, or any other responsible professional whom I rely on to be a stoner. "Divinity" has not incarnated as a common planetary weed, albeit with some recognizably medicinal properties. Leave "Divinity" out of your stoned revelations. Cannabis is not a sacrament, it's a lesser opium of the people, a consolation for non-achievement, and one of the reasons downtrodden and oppressed segments of society remain downtrodden and depressed. They've become too damn apathetic to get schooled or retooled to do much of anything. Open your eyes and ears around stoners - they're not getting smarter from being stoned, more insightful, or clear-minded - just the opposite. It's a wonder the powers-that-be haven't legalized it decades ago as a strategy to keep the multitudes just where they are with no threat to instigating change in society other than demanding that Nabisco keep cranking out those addictive Oreo cookies. 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: deCypher]
#19205844 - 11/29/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just because Cannabis has the potential to be abused, does not mean that it does not possess uplifting and sacramental properties to some. Your post reeks of one-sided bias worse than a stoner's carpet that has absorbed many a spilt pint of bong water. 
I'm pretty sure there's people who see their automatic weapons as having sacramental properties. The op is claiming a gift from divinity and I haven't seen the evidence. It can cause as many problems as it gives solutions. If you're going to call it divine then you need to include just about every material thing we know.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander] 3
#19206411 - 11/29/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No need to get upset just because kratom is not as spiritual as maryjane
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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MarkostheGnostic said: Oh please. I stopped using cannabis around 1979 after 10 years of use. Stoners always want to justify being stoned. I don't want my pilot, surgeon, physicians, dentist, broker, accountant, or any other responsible professional whom I rely on to be a stoner. "Divinity" has not incarnated as a common planetary weed, albeit with some recognizably medicinal properties. Leave "Divinity" out of your stoned revelations. Cannabis is not a sacrament, it's a lesser opium of the people, a consolation for non-achievement, and one of the reasons downtrodden and oppressed segments of society remain downtrodden and depressed. They've become too damn apathetic to get schooled or retooled to do much of anything. Open your eyes and ears around stoners - they're not getting smarter from being stoned, more insightful, or clear-minded - just the opposite. It's a wonder the powers-that-be haven't legalized it decades ago as a strategy to keep the multitudes just where they are with no threat to instigating change in society other than demanding that Nabisco keep cranking out those addictive Oreo cookies. 
As a former heavy stoner, I agree that the majority of stoners are just cannabis addicts like addicts to any other drug. However, that does not change the fact that cannabis has psychedelic qualities similar to LSD and mushrooms, which I have seen you giving great praise to on numerous occasions. Just because you find the latter two chemicals to better agree with your constitution, does not mean that cannabis is not a more effective entheogen for some. Alan Watts believed that cannabis was the BEST psychedelic drug for spiritual insight and Timothy Leary also saw it as having great value, making it along with LSD (not mushrooms and LSD, cannabis and LSD) the two official sacraments of his psychedelic religion. I have also found cannabis to be a deeply spiritual plant and I have gained far more spiritual insights from it than both LSD and mushrooms, in part because it allows me to enter the psychedelic headspace on a frequent bases.
Now personally I do not consider cannabis a sacrament, I consider the Holy Eucharist to be a sacrament. I consider cannabis to be an entheogen, a drug which has spiritual properties. This kind of drug can in rare cases facilitate spiritual awakening. However, in most cases the user does not attribute enough significance to his or her experience to make it anything more than a novelty.
I dont like to look at cannabis as a sacrament, because I consider it rather dirty and addictive. The after effects for me are quite unpleasant, bottomless bit munchies, mental fuzziness, burnt out no energy feeling. As I said, I used to be addicted to it and would smoke more just to get rid of these unpleasant after effects. These days I no longer chain smoke marijuana, I take one or two hits and then I do not get high again until I have completely come down from the previous experience. Cannabis is most harmful when it is used chronically. If a person smokes anything more than a hit or two every 24 hours (and even this is a lot to be smoking), then they are chronically stoned, never reaching true sobriety and this can have some nasty effects on the users mental health over the years, often causing anxiety, paranoia and apathy. Cannabis is much easier to abuse than the other psychedelics but it truly must be used sparingly in order to be anything other than a vice. I still find it easy to fall into a rut of smoking every day for weeks on end even if it is only one hit a day but when I observe this addictive tendency in myself, I stop for a while whereas when I was in college, I just smoked constantly no matter what. Very stupid.
Edited by Deviate (11/30/13 07:50 AM)
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Deviate
newbie
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Quote:
usulpsychonaut said:
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Deviate said:
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HerbJunkette said: I don't understand why everything on Earth has to be so...mystified. Can't it just be a plant?
If you want to look at it as just a plant, no one is stopping you. However, the psychoactive effects give it a greater significance to many people. It is a sacred plant, because it can lead to degrees of awakened consciousness.
An awakened consciousness would see things for what they are.
Not necessarily, in fact this is only very rarely true. Only a Jnani, or realized soul sees things as they are. There are millions of people who have experienced some glimpse or degree of awakened consciousness but are still quite a ways from full overcoming their egoic delusions and reaching full awakening. These spiritually aware people are certainly awake in a certain sense of the word, but they do not see things as they are, they still see them through some measure of egoic delusion. I myself am one of these people. The sun has begun to rise in my soul and it has been crushing illusion left and right, but it has not yet reached its destination as the ruler of my house. There is still ignorance, ego , self will and evil desire afflicting my soul.
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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿



Registered: 05/21/09
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deCypher said: Now, however, I smoke more than a few puffs and I feel paranoid, anxious and overly self-conscious with a side of social anxiety to boot. I hear this is a pretty common happening too--something about years of use lowering the activation threshold of the amygdala when activated by THC. All I know is I miss being able to enjoy that sweet, sweet herb. 
know exactly what you mean. been there. there's a way to somewhat reverse it. tested and verified it.
first off you need to quit smoking weed for at least a year. after that, you can start enjoying your herb again BUT- make sure to smoke SMALL amounts and NOT TOO OFTEN (everyday) FOR TOO LONG (a year or so). Or you'll be back where you started I'm on my second 1 year break now because I blew it again But I'm so happy i found a way to enjoy herb again 
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MarkostheGnostic said: Oh please. I stopped using cannabis around 1979 after 10 years of use. Stoners always want to justify being stoned. I don't want my pilot, surgeon, physicians, dentist, broker, accountant, or any other responsible professional whom I rely on to be a stoner. "Divinity" has not incarnated as a common planetary weed, albeit with some recognizably medicinal properties. Leave "Divinity" out of your stoned revelations. Cannabis is not a sacrament, it's a lesser opium of the people, a consolation for non-achievement, and one of the reasons downtrodden and oppressed segments of society remain downtrodden and depressed. They've become too damn apathetic to get schooled or retooled to do much of anything. Open your eyes and ears around stoners - they're not getting smarter from being stoned, more insightful, or clear-minded - just the opposite. It's a wonder the powers-that-be haven't legalized it decades ago as a strategy to keep the multitudes just where they are with no threat to instigating change in society other than demanding that Nabisco keep cranking out those addictive Oreo cookies. 
I totally agree with this, although, why so intense? Cannabis and any drug can be part of a spiritual experience if your relationship with the drug is beyond that of abusing it everyday and trying to justify it with the idea of being some urban shaman. A very small percent of people CAN actually use drugs as a spiritual enhancement tool... myself excluded, still training to not to abuse them don't get me wrong though, I agree with your post... its just seemed a little one sided to me 
i would have written as such:
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MotherNaturesSon said: I think you're overstating the importance of drugs as a factor in the spiritual context. That's why we have so many people running around trying to justify their addiction by portraying their drug of choice as beneficial to their spiritual development when if fact noting tangible of spiritual worth comes from it. And although some spiritual growth can occur on some very subtle level with certain people (especially when talking about psychedelic drugs), it is essentially a limiting outlook to subsume that drugs are anything more than the seasonings of the human experience. (imo)
just sayan
Edited by MotherNaturesSon (11/30/13 10:18 AM)
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Oh, but just wait till "Dr. Marcos" whips out his psycho doc hat and starts diagnosing people for this and that certifiable condition.
Hey Doc, aren't you supposed to be retired from the diagnosing business anyway? I mean you growing lilies or orchids never could remember. Musta been all that herb I been abusing.
Anyhoo, this thread worst of all has degraded into yet another of many let's blame herb for paranoia, anxiety, and depression. Some y'all need to man up and learn to finish, and to handle your bong hits. I mean that's the extent of my diagnosis on the subject.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse] 1
#19207863 - 11/30/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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LunarEclipse said: Anyhoo, this thread worst of all has degraded into yet another of many let's blame herb for paranoia, anxiety, and depression.
Apologies. Everyone knows that herb is God's own gift to Mankind; the most perfect drug ever conceived and bestowed upon us by the beneficent angels of sheer smoky benevolence. It has absolutely no negative effects whatsoever--anyone claiming ANY bad consequences from their cannabis use is obviously an anti-marijuana shill/government plant sent here by the Illuminati to denigrate this botanical blessing. Any study that shows any possibility of a correlation between marijuana use and increased risk of psychosis, schizophrenia, depersonalization, derealization, apathy, amotivation, paranoia, anxiety, etcetera etc. is obviously just lying out their teeth or hopelessly delusional.
Duh.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19208016 - 11/30/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Anyhoo, this thread worst of all has degraded into yet another of many let's blame herb for paranoia, anxiety, and depression. Some y'all need to man up and learn to finish, and to handle your bong hits.
Didn't you struggle with shrooms?
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: deCypher]
#19208027 - 11/30/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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As a true hippy drug expert/addict I can say from vast experience I can wreck any drug and turn it against me. 
Seriously though, our individual chemistry at any specific point in time can have a profound effect on how any particular drug can effect us. That to me is totally obvious after a life time of use and observation of others. It's quite likely that my excessive use of Kratom will ruin it for me sometime down the road. But as a true enlightened one I'm living (it up) in the moment.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿



Registered: 05/21/09
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse] 1
#19208050 - 11/30/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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LunarEclipse said: Anyhoo, this thread worst of all has degraded into yet another of many let's blame herb for paranoia, anxiety, and depression. Some y'all need to man up and learn to finish, and to handle your bong hits. I mean that's the extent of my diagnosis on the subject.
Please PLEASE don't be one of those people 
some people have this experience and you'd be a total deuce to deny its legitimacy.
the whole weed is harmless act is the biggest bullshit next to weed kills and is the primary reason for people getting themselves into trouble through excessive weed smoking (since it's 'harmless').
Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said: Anyhoo, this thread worst of all has degraded into yet another of many let's blame herb for paranoia, anxiety, and depression.
Apologies. Everyone knows that herb is God's own gift to Mankind; the most perfect drug ever conceived and bestowed upon us by the beneficent angels of sheer smoky benevolence. It has absolutely no negative effects whatsoever--anyone claiming ANY bad consequences from their cannabis use is obviously an anti-marijuana shill/government plant sent here by the Illuminati to denigrate this botanical blessing. Any study that shows any possibility of a correlation between marijuana use and increased risk of psychosis, schizophrenia, depersonalization, derealization, apathy, amotivation, paranoia, anxiety, etcetera etc. is obviously just lying out their teeth or hopelessly delusional.
Duh. 
I have personally experienced weed induced anxiety disorder and derealization. not to mention that I couldn't bring myself to be productive when i was blazed off my aas. some can, some can't. not that weed was the sole factor for the anxiety and derealization, but it did set everything i had built up in myself off in a cascade of panic.... man that was the shittiest year of my life. all is good now. and i still love my herb. but some people are gonna have a bad time if they abuse it.
--------------------
Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII: "Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions." "So you believe in intensions?" "No. I believe in being genuine." "The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."
Edited by MotherNaturesSon (11/30/13 10:29 AM)
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander] 1
#19208642 - 11/30/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Icelander said:
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MarkostheGnostic said: Oh please. I stopped using cannabis around 1979 after 10 years of use. Stoners always want to justify being stoned. I don't want my pilot, surgeon, physicians, dentist, broker, accountant, or any other responsible professional whom I rely on to be a stoner. "Divinity" has not incarnated as a common planetary weed, albeit with some recognizably medicinal properties. Leave "Divinity" out of your stoned revelations. Cannabis is not a sacrament, it's a lesser opium of the people, a consolation for non-achievement, and one of the reasons downtrodden and oppressed segments of society remain downtrodden and depressed. They've become too damn apathetic to get schooled or retooled to do much of anything. Open your eyes and ears around stoners - they're not getting smarter from being stoned, more insightful, or clear-minded - just the opposite. It's a wonder the powers-that-be haven't legalized it decades ago as a strategy to keep the multitudes just where they are with no threat to instigating change in society other than demanding that Nabisco keep cranking out those addictive Oreo cookies. 


As if Markos's abuse of cannabis in the 70s is evidence for all cannabis use being abuse. I wouldn't want my pilot to be a drunk either, but I'd hardly begrudge them for drinking a glass of wine at dinner if they were done working that day. I wouldn't want one who 'wake and baked' before the job, or stayed up all night drinking and partying before flying like in the film Flight All of this is 100% relative to your usage patterns, which are simply indeterminable because you happen to use the the drug. If you drink wine every night,does that make you a 'wino'? No, it depends on how much and when, relative to your other social and occupational duties. News flash, wine is not a 'sacrament' either, no drug usage is intrinsically a sign of higher consciousness, that's all 100% relative to the individual.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19208740 - 11/30/13 02:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Agreed, I handle both my alcohol and cannabis use fine. Before and at work I'm sober and have no problem functioning at 100% - just like most other cannabis or alcohol users I've met.
If someone has a problem functioning due to off the clock marijuana use, they're the exception and frankly I look at it as a weakness.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19208771 - 11/30/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
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MarkostheGnostic said: Oh please. I stopped using cannabis around 1979 after 10 years of use. Stoners always want to justify being stoned. I don't want my pilot, surgeon, physicians, dentist, broker, accountant, or any other responsible professional whom I rely on to be a stoner. "Divinity" has not incarnated as a common planetary weed, albeit with some recognizably medicinal properties. Leave "Divinity" out of your stoned revelations. Cannabis is not a sacrament, it's a lesser opium of the people, a consolation for non-achievement, and one of the reasons downtrodden and oppressed segments of society remain downtrodden and depressed. They've become too damn apathetic to get schooled or retooled to do much of anything. Open your eyes and ears around stoners - they're not getting smarter from being stoned, more insightful, or clear-minded - just the opposite. It's a wonder the powers-that-be haven't legalized it decades ago as a strategy to keep the multitudes just where they are with no threat to instigating change in society other than demanding that Nabisco keep cranking out those addictive Oreo cookies. 


As if Markos's abuse of cannabis in the 70s is evidence for all cannabis use being abuse. I wouldn't want my pilot to be a drunk either, but I'd hardly begrudge them for drinking a glass of wine at dinner if they were done working that day. I wouldn't want one who 'wake and baked' before the job, or stayed up all night drinking and partying before flying like in the film Flight All of this is 100% relative to your usage patterns, which are simply indeterminable because you happen to use the the drug. If you drink wine every night,does that make you a 'wino'? No, it depends on how much and when, relative to your other social and occupational duties. News flash, wine is not a 'sacrament' either, no drug usage is intrinsically a sign of higher consciousness, that's all 100% relative to the individual.

Never thought he was saying that all use is abuse. Generally my experience is that people who use it throughout the day every day don't have a lot going on upstairs. But then they might have not anyway.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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When you've been around as long as Icelander and I have, it is sometimes a matter of over-saturation, of having heard the same defense-mechanism of rationalization from all sorts of people. Among late adolescent (mid to late 20s) cannabis users who are still enamored of cannabis and still experience some degree of novelty, there is that wearisome drivel about how wonderful weed is. Weed is wonderful only to the extent that without it you are miserable. It's one of those simple dichotomies in life that applies to everything. The more pleasurable, the more you miss it. I went oil-free vegan for 16 months and didn't taste chocolate, which I like in very small but satisfying amounts. But I did not go on about chocolatyl being literally the "food of the gods," or any such thing. I missed it, but I wasn't unhappy without it, nor did I feel the need to sing its praises. Of course, the amount of chocolate (1, 1.5" square) is not enough to raise my Dopamine levels. I do not sit down with a 5 lb. box of chocolates like a lonely and obese woman I once knew (who committed suicide a few years ago).
If cannabis makes you 'feel' so good, and without it you are less than optimal, something is not right. It does not relieve depression, and in fact, too much can result in depression, so it's not an anti-depressant. For a lot of folk, it relieves anxiety and induces relaxation, but if a person does not know how to relax on their own, I see a problem. Too often, cannabis use is resorted to for the relief of boredom, an existential malaise that I rarely if ever experience. Pick up a book instead. No? Too much effort? Apathetic Syndrome is not a mere fabrication. Cannabis can and does result in addiction for many (there is a Marijuana Anonymous), and it can and does precipitate paranoid ideation, panic attacks, and yes, even psychotic episodes among those predisposed. But in average people, the substance is probably a lesser of so many other potential evils. The spiritual claim, gleaned from reading about Hindu sadhus perhaps, who then sing to God because their hearts have been gladdened, doesn't much translate into America from what I have seen, and I've seen stoned middle schoolers throw down in a hallway just from hostile looks and attendant paranoia.
I interviewed veteran heroin users, some of whom were practiced bullshitters, and I've heard them go on about nirvanic bliss and such. Maybe the more intellectually inclined junkie read DeQuincy, Coleridge, or Baudelaire and how famous their works are, AS IF opiates are behind their talent. Freud and Ulysses S. Grant were addicted to cigars, which gave them cancer, which required surgery and they discovered the analgesic power of cocaine, to which they became equally addicted. Freud did sing the praises of tobacco as well as of cocaine, but it was the tobacco's result that killed him. Freud refused to analyze his own tobacco use (20 cigars per day), but his attitude was to look down on those who refused to smoke (I just read The Sphinx on the Table which detailed some of this about Freud). Freud used rationalization on his drug use constantly.
So, why sound "intense?" Because the bullshit is old more than I am old. Because it's the same old same old, and I aspire to Awakening even if everyone around me spins their wheels in the same neuronal ruts, claiming all the time the greatness of their habit. But habits for me, if uncontrolled for the sake of expediency like a morning routine before work, are just deadly. Cannabis was exciting and novel for me at a particular time and place. I took my first hits of hashish on New Year's Eve 1968-69. But despite its liberating effects, it had a negative effect on my high school academic performance. That was the first 'monolith' that began a huge domino effect on my life. I was done with "childish things" by 1979 when I began graduate school and couldn't afford any further fuck-ups in life (which came of course, without cannabis). Perhaps I also do not like to see that dynamic re-enacted by all those who are presently where I was decades ago. Cannabis didn't do one really good thing for me in the long run, and I haven't seen any parallels to a Francis Crick who envisioned the DNA helix while on acid with cannabis. It is just another "opiate of the people."
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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I know very few "stoners", people who smoke chronically all day and can't function properly. If you're really so submerged in that kind of company then perhaps you should mind the company you keep.
So far I've seen no statistics or peer-reviewed studies from you on the subject, so I can only speculate on your own speculation which form from personal experience. Very short sighted way to form an opinion on anything.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander] 4
#19208893 - 11/30/13 02:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Never thought he was saying that all use is abuse. Generally my experience is that people who use it throughout the day every day don't have a lot going on upstairs. But then they might have not anyway. 
I can't think of a single drug that can be used all throughout the day every day without negative consequences, it's peculiar that cannabis would be singled out in such regards
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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LittleDipster


Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 4,141
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19209009 - 11/30/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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great thread.
Everything markos has said is true based on my observations and experience.
Quote:
the whole weed is harmless act is the biggest bullshit next to weed kills and is the primary reason for people getting themselves into trouble through excessive weed smoking (since it's 'harmless').
this is very true as well
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke] 1
#19209039 - 11/30/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Never thought he was saying that all use is abuse. Generally my experience is that people who use it throughout the day every day don't have a lot going on upstairs. But then they might have not anyway. 
I can't think of a single drug that can be used all throughout the day every day without negative consequences, it's peculiar that cannabis would be singled out in such regards 
I'm not singling it out. This thread is about cannabis.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LittleDipster]
#19209055 - 11/30/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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This debate is a little too generalized when looking at cannabis users who have access to the medical grade stuff. For me, weed isnt weed. Theres the indicas which make me tired, sluggish and paranoid/psychotic. Theres the Sativas low in cbd content which provide a very stimulating, paranoid, psychedelic like high. And theres the sativas high in CBD which give.a.stimulating yet relaxing, creative high. There are no burnouts with tthe pure sativas IME.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander] 3
#19209082 - 11/30/13 03:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Never thought he was saying that all use is abuse. Generally my experience is that people who use it throughout the day every day don't have a lot going on upstairs. But then they might have not anyway. 
I can't think of a single drug that can be used all throughout the day every day without negative consequences, it's peculiar that cannabis would be singled out in such regards 
I'm not singling it out. This thread is about cannabis.
Except all cannabis users do not habitually smoke all day and every day... Vilifying the plant is absurd, which is why I give MtG's post a . Cannabis didn't do any of that to him, imho, his problems were cultural in nature (involving lack of education and guidance in using the drug properly) that led to his excessive use and poor academics.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Posts: 21,407
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Hobozen]
#19209125 - 11/30/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
blankk said: This debate is a little too generalized when looking at cannabis users who have access to the medical grade stuff. For me, weed isnt weed. Theres the indicas which make me tired, sluggish and paranoid/psychotic. Theres the Sativas low in cbd content which provide a very stimulating, paranoid, psychedelic like high. And theres the sativas high in CBD which give.a.stimulating yet relaxing, creative high. There are no burnouts with tthe pure sativas IME.
So what's an example of "pure" sativas?
Just seems so odd for you to even keep using anything that would "make" them paranoid. "Very stimulating, paranoid, psychedelic high."
Yet undeciphered wants to keep coming back to the weed too. I mean, folks, make up your minds.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19209156 - 11/30/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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100% sativa 0% indica. I was speaking from experience,.paranoia is what I get from it It does seem unusual that someone would continue to use a drug despite negative consequences. Bunch of minsinformed addicts!
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Hobozen]
#19209193 - 11/30/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
blankk said: 100% sativa 0% indica. I was speaking from experience,.paranoia is what I get from it It does seem unusual that someone would continue to use a drug despite negative consequences. Bunch of minsinformed addicts! 
Are you using it now? You seem in a bit upset the misplaced period concerns me. Of course I could be minsinformed.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19209200 - 11/30/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mary Jane is a beauty indeed..
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
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Loc:
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19209230 - 11/30/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
blankk said: 100% sativa 0% indica. I was speaking from experience,.paranoia is what I get from it It does seem unusual that someone would continue to use a drug despite negative consequences. Bunch of minsinformed addicts! 
Are you using it now? You seem in a bit upset the misplaced period concerns me. Of course I could be minsinformed.
Stop fuckin with me! And yes I am stoned, for the first time in months, and you know what it's this thread that did it to me. Pardon my cell phone hands.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Hobozen]
#19209336 - 11/30/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
blankk said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
blankk said: 100% sativa 0% indica. I was speaking from experience,.paranoia is what I get from it It does seem unusual that someone would continue to use a drug despite negative consequences. Bunch of minsinformed addicts! 
Are you using it now? You seem in a bit upset the misplaced period concerns me. Of course I could be minsinformed.
Stop fuckin with me! And yes I am stoned, for the first time in months, and you know what it's this thread that did it to me. Pardon my cell phone hands.
Now it's this thread that "made" you get stoned. Of course it's me fuckin with you, not your poor decision to break down. Next you will be blaming the weed again. It's a vicious cycle.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
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Loc:
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19209367 - 11/30/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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There are "cannabis counselors". If you get paranoid while stoned, it's some part of your life that's gone astray and not the cannabis itself. To them the weed is like a mirror.
Don't ask me what I think about that.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke] 1
#19209386 - 11/30/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Never thought he was saying that all use is abuse. Generally my experience is that people who use it throughout the day every day don't have a lot going on upstairs. But then they might have not anyway. 
I can't think of a single drug that can be used all throughout the day every day without negative consequences, it's peculiar that cannabis would be singled out in such regards 
I'm not singling it out. This thread is about cannabis.
Except all cannabis users do not habitually smoke all day and every day... Vilifying the plant is absurd, which is why I give MtG's post a . Cannabis didn't do any of that to him, imho, his problems were cultural in nature (involving lack of education and guidance in using the drug properly) that led to his excessive use and poor academics.
I never said all cannabis users smoke all day every day. The term stoners implies that however and that is the group he was discussing. You keep going from extreme to extreme to defend something, imo, no one is attacking. Get over this. And who is the arbitrator of what is the proper use of the drug???
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19209402 - 11/30/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I never said all cannabis users smoke all day every day. The term stoners implies that however and that is the group he was discussing. You keep going from extreme to extreme to defend something, imo, no one is attacking. Get over this. And how are you the arbitrator of what is the proper use of the drug???
Well, apparently we read his post very differently, so we'll just have to let him settle this matter.
MarkostheGnostic - are there situations where recreational use of marijuana is not detrimental to one's health/psyche, or do you believe that this is always the case? Let's have it.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19209411 - 11/30/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You might have to get him up out of bed. He's old and goes to bed around 4pm.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19209453 - 11/30/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: Well, apparently we read his post very differently, so we'll just have to let him settle this matter.
This was his first post in this thread after all...
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
 Pot amplifies the negatives. It made me paranoid (hash on the other hand, did not). Now, however, is neither the time to wax paranoid, nor to court dementia.
I couldn't take the rest of his arguments seriously after reading this one.
Edited by Hobozen (11/30/13 05:51 PM)
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Hobozen]
#19209697 - 11/30/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
blankk said: There are "cannabis counselors". If you get paranoid while stoned, it's some part of your life that's gone astray and not the cannabis itself. To them the weed is like a mirror.
Don't ask me what I think about that.
Gawd that music sucks. No wonder you are bummed.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19209754 - 11/30/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You just need to smoke the right weed to be able to enjoy its heartbeat like, repetitive nature. It's not the music's fault you can't keep up with the times.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Hobozen]
#19209821 - 11/30/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's no surprise you are getting paranoid and worse from listening to that techno crap. The weed can't have any Blame for that garbage.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19209887 - 11/30/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What? Can't hear you
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Rincewind
Stranger

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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Hobozen]
#19211497 - 12/01/13 08:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The thing that unites as of us that smoke weed is that we lie to ourselves to rationalize the abuse of something that is not a medicine or some tool for spiritual awakening, it is a drug, a drug that stimulates a part of the brain that causes you to think and feel in certain pattern.
Now think pattern causes us to feel good about ourselves without actually accomplishing anything. I can just sit down and smoke all day and think: "This is awesome, I am awesome".
The funny thing is that when you realize what weed does to your self, when you see the thought pattern from the outside. Then you try to point this out to your friends that all think alike, all say the same thing, repeating it over again like robots.
You are only met with anger, scorn and social isolation.
For such a simple thing as: I don't want to smoke weed because it only leads to dependence and group-thinking.
They say we have to bring down Babylon, well the weed is Babylon. Something that makes you stop caring, stop feeling and only feel good when you actually feel bad.
This is how to brainwash yourself.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Rincewind]
#19211867 - 12/01/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Rincewind said: The thing that unites as of us that smoke weed is that we lie to ourselves to rationalize the abuse of something that is not a medicine or some tool for spiritual awakening, it is a drug, a drug that stimulates a part of the brain that causes you to think and feel in certain pattern.
Now think pattern causes us to feel good about ourselves without actually accomplishing anything. I can just sit down and smoke all day and think: "This is awesome, I am awesome".
The funny thing is that when you realize what weed does to your self, when you see the thought pattern from the outside. Then you try to point this out to your friends that all think alike, all say the same thing, repeating it over again like robots.
You are only met with anger, scorn and social isolation.
For such a simple thing as: I don't want to smoke weed because it only leads to dependence and group-thinking.
They say we have to bring down Babylon, well the weed is Babylon. Something that makes you stop caring, stop feeling and only feel good when you actually feel bad.
This is how to brainwash yourself.
"The Weed is Babylon"?
No wonder your friends get pissed. You are a buzz kill.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19211905 - 12/01/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
You might have to get him up out of bed. He's old and goes to bed around 4pm.
That would be 4:00 AM wise guy. I'm a 'night owl,' not a 'morning lark.'
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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And how about a reply to the question then.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19212056 - 12/01/13 11:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Marijuana can certainly be used recreationally without negative result, but I don't know anything about the distribution (on a bell curve) of how this manifests. Let me be clear on this - I only have personal reservations about those professionals that I depend upon, because I don't know how much THC has to be incorporated into one's neurons before judgement is effected, let alone impaired. That is a case-by-case phenomenon. I do not, btw, hang with addicts, cannabis or otherwise, and when people toke up around me, I don't have any disdain for them. I couldn't care one way or another, I simply decline any offer politely. I don't see any levity, creativity, cosmicity (I made that up), I just see sedation, mild confusion, inattentiveness, and a lack of conversational skills. Unfortunately, the people I have in mind are my age or older, not energetic 20-somethings. 30-somethings, by-and-large, are family and career obsessed, and seem very concerned about public image and behavior, and I cannot speculate on the 40 and 50-somethings. I just don't have that range of experience, being socially isolated.
When I was in grad school in the early 80s, there was a plane crash out of D.C.. Everyone was killed on board and the pilot and co-pilot's corpses apparently tested positive for THC. They had 'forgotten' to lower the elevators (flaps) on the wings, and the plane just bounced and could barely get of the ground without the lift caused by the lowered elevators, and flew right into a concrete bridge. Now this was a poignant example of incompetence, and fortunately a rare one. But when ground speed reaches a certain point, the next thing, the only thing for pilots is to get lift. HTF could both pilots fail to do this?
People on these forums talk about forgetfulness, Bob Weir on a old Dead CD jokes about his short-term memory loss (that I listened to yesterday), I remember forgetfulness and slowed reaction time, plus apathy. If something was rolling off a table, it was too much effort to react like a fighter-pilot and move quickly, so unless it was fragile, I wouldn't even bother. I'd let it fall and I'd pick it up - later. My peers are way slowed down - by age. I see forgetfulness. Yesterday I met with my college roommate who was in my neighborhood from Colombia. We hadn't seen each other in 37 years! He was one of the people I experienced telepathy from, who reacted to me with utter horror. It was a powerful moment in time. He had zero recall of that event. Perhaps I have a particularly developed memory, but I don't want to start chiseling away at it now. I don't know if cannabis-induced forgetfulness is an entering wedge into pre-senile dementia or Alzheimer's, but I do know that behind the pleasurable sensations of certain euphoriants, the real bliss is in clarity of mind. Hence my position.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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I've had truly profound "spiritual" experiences on bud. Great insight into my life and the world and astoundingly beautiful experiences deep into the woods. And it's one of the very best pain relievers on the planet imo. If used to that end I don't think it's any kind of a lesser drug. However because it can be used daily so easily it is prone to abuse imo. I just think that many come to rely on it too heavily and use it irresponsibly (such as when driving etc.) . Balance is the key for almost anything imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Marijuana can certainly be used recreationally without negative result, but I don't know anything about the distribution (on a bell curve) of how this manifests. Let me be clear on this - I only have personal reservations about those professionals that I depend upon, because I don't know how much THC has to be incorporated into one's neurons before judgement is effected, let alone impaired. That is a case-by-case phenomenon. I do not, btw, hang with addicts, cannabis or otherwise, and when people toke up around me, I don't have any disdain for them. I couldn't care one way or another, I simply decline any offer politely. I don't see any levity, creativity, cosmicity (I made that up), I just see sedation, mild confusion, inattentiveness, and a lack of conversational skills. Unfortunately, the people I have in mind are my age or older, not energetic 20-somethings. 30-somethings, by-and-large, are family and career obsessed, and seem very concerned about public image and behavior, and I cannot speculate on the 40 and 50-somethings. I just don't have that range of experience, being socially isolated.
I too have experienced those sedated, inattentive, and lacking in conversational skills, particularly when waiting for grass at dealers' homes, sitting around on the couch and staring down the boob tube at a late night comedy show. I got the distinct impression this cannabis induced depression was socioeconomic in nature, as there was never lack of good, free flowing conversation in a college environment.
Quote:
When I was in grad school in the early 80s, there was a plane crash out of D.C.. Everyone was killed on board and the pilot and co-pilot's corpses apparently tested positive for THC. They had 'forgotten' to lower the elevators (flaps) on the wings, and the plane just bounced and could barely get of the ground without the lift caused by the lowered elevators, and flew right into a concrete bridge. Now this was a poignant example of incompetence, and fortunately a rare one. But when ground speed reaches a certain point, the next thing, the only thing for pilots is to get lift. HTF could both pilots fail to do this?
Personally, when it comes to drug reform, I'd like to see licensure for psychedelic drugs. One would take an educational course, if they qualified, and then would be tested, much like a driver's license test (I see equal merit in doing this with alcohol). As it stands, in Washington state, the drug is legal at the age of 21, which is no way to gauge one's maturity if you ask me. 
Quote:
People on these forums talk about forgetfulness, Bob Weir on a old Dead CD jokes about his short-term memory loss (that I listened to yesterday), I remember forgetfulness and slowed reaction time, plus apathy. If something was rolling off a table, it was too much effort to react like a fighter-pilot and move quickly, so unless it was fragile, I wouldn't even bother. I'd let it fall and I'd pick it up - later. My peers are way slowed down - by age. I see forgetfulness. Yesterday I met with my college roommate who was in my neighborhood from Colombia. We hadn't seen each other in 37 years! He was one of the people I experienced telepathy from, who reacted to me with utter horror. It was a powerful moment in time. He had zero recall of that event. Perhaps I have a particularly developed memory, but I don't want to start chiseling away at it now. I don't know if cannabis-induced forgetfulness is an entering wedge into pre-senile dementia or Alzheimer's, but I do know that behind the pleasurable sensations of certain euphoriants, the real bliss is in clarity of mind. Hence my position.
I have a particularly developed memory as well.... In fact, once I recall you making a remark that if a person was stoned and watched their friend slip and fall down, their first inclination might be to laugh instead of checking to see if they were okay . I found this hilarious, as if it was discarding slapstick humor all together. I think it's quite natural for somebody to laugh in such a situation, and I'm really quite certain no 'stoner' would be laughing if an old lady fell down a flight of stairs.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19212886 - 12/01/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I remember that comment too.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19213056 - 12/01/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Actually, I was one such stoner who made an inappropriate comment in jest when a girl in college stumbled on the last step and verbalized it. I did not get up to help. I was 18, and that lack of empathy was partly due to my immaturity and partly due to cannabis influence. On another occasion, while listening to a student present something in the 'Great Hall,' the presenter had a stutter. The crowded room was packed and silent. Not having a seat, I was watching from behind the rails of of a staircase. I let out a very inappropriate laugh, to which many heads turned in my direction. I knew the uncontrolled laugh was wrong even as it left my mouth. Today, I find nothing at all humorous about someone's difficulties no matter what form they take, but back then, being stoned made me more stupid than I already was due to other factors. Those instances were not able to be taken in any slap-stick sense, like someone missing their chair, stepping on a banana peel, etc. The responses were just wrong in those cases.
 Many years later, I was hanging out with a female who lived in my apartment after my divorce. We were sitting outside at a cafe and she was saying really obnoxious things about people. She had a PhD in social work, was a secretive opiate addict with some of her social worker friends who often stole prescription pads and forged oxy scripts. She once accused me of stealing her Vicodin from her undies drawer!  It was one of her junkie friends. Anyway, when I commented on her being mean, she simply shot back "You don't have to hang around with me you know!" Short-lived friendship. Fairly insensitive person hell-bent on making herself even more insensitive with opiates. I should have known, she used to be a lawyer. At the time, she was a substance abuse counselor at a local clinic, and I was thinking with my other 'head.' One of the reasons I stayed away from cannabis over the 27 years I worked in middle schools was the hypocrisy factor. When kids I was trying to steer away from cannabis asked me if I used cannabis, I could say in all honesty that I did, but I don't now. I'm free of that obligation now, and if I could locate a bit of hashish, I would be happy to hit it again, mostly just for the flavor, but it's uncommon in Florida and I'm not traveling to Amsterdam just for that. It's doubtful that I would become a douchebag again with a few hits of hash.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Nothing has changed IMO. You are still trying to steer people away from weed, and maybe more up on your soapbox than ever considering you are retired.
You would still smoke hash but for some reason are down on weed. I think the work hypocrite applies in spades.
The douchebag thing I won't even address, sounds like a personal problem to me.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19213680 - 12/01/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't see what the difference between hash and weed is??? Isn't the active ingredient THC?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Actually, I was one such stoner who made an inappropriate comment in jest when a girl in college stumbled on the last step and verbalized it. I did not get up to help. I was 18, and that lack of empathy was partly due to my immaturity and partly due to cannabis influence. On another occasion, while listening to a student present something in the 'Great Hall,' the presenter had a stutter. The crowded room was packed and silent. Not having a seat, I was watching from behind the rails of of a staircase. I let out a very inappropriate laugh, to which many heads turned in my direction. I knew the uncontrolled laugh was wrong even as it left my mouth. Today, I find nothing at all humorous about someone's difficulties no matter what form they take, but back then, being stoned made me more stupid than I already was due to other factors. Those instances were not able to be taken in any slap-stick sense, like someone missing their chair, stepping on a banana peel, etc. The responses were just wrong in those cases.

Well, should you come visit me in Portland, I'll happily introduce you to many of friends who still get lit, and you can stutter and fall a bunch, and we'll gauge their reactions. I'm genuinely curious
Quote:
One of the reasons I stayed away from cannabis over the 27 years I worked in middle schools was the hypocrisy factor. When kids I was trying to steer away from cannabis asked me if I used cannabis, I could say in all honesty that I did, but I don't now. I'm free of that obligation now, and if I could locate a bit of hashish, I would be happy to hit it again, mostly just for the flavor, but it's uncommon in Florida and I'm not traveling to Amsterdam just for that. It's doubtful that I would become a douchebag again with a few hits of hash.
My mother, who was a substance abuse counselor for many years, also quit for comparable reasons, also including job security and having children she would never jeopardize losing over a random drug related offense... Now that we're all grown up and out of the house and she approaches retirement, I'd personally love it if she'd reassess the situation. She won't use entheogens, and I think it would be as close to a psychedelic headspace as she could approximate.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Deviate
newbie
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19214991 - 12/01/13 10:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I've had truly profound "spiritual" experiences on bud. Great insight into my life and the world and astoundingly beautiful experiences deep into the woods. And it's one of the very best pain relievers on the planet imo. If used to that end I don't think it's any kind of a lesser drug. However because it can be used daily so easily it is prone to abuse imo. I just think that many come to rely on it too heavily and use it irresponsibly (such as when driving etc.) . Balance is the key for almost anything imo.
Yes me too, I have had so many beautiful experiences on cannabis I truly value it more than any other drug, more than mushrooms and LSD. The only real negative thing about cannabis is as you said, that it can be used every day. If you used cannabis only once every few months, then I don't see why it shouldn't be respected and put on the same level as mushrooms and LSD. It is definitely a mind expanding drug. The problem comes when you start using it chronically, which I did in college and it had very negative consequences on my psychological, social and academic development.
It's not that it wasn't mind expanding even then, it's just that I never acted on the majority of my insights. I was actually just talking about this with a friend of mine whose life has been ruined by drug addiction. He was telling me how he still smokes weed and when he is stoned, he has insights about his life, how he needs to stop using drugs (he is addicted to alcohol and opiates) and other more spiritual thoughts. But then when he comes down, he never acts on any of the thoughts he had while high. I was just the same. In college I used to smoke all day every day. Sometimes while high I would think about how I needed to start doing better in school or this or that thing that I needed to improve about myself, but when I came down from being high, I would feel tired and burnt out so I would put off acting on my insights and just smoke more weed instead.
So my point is here, that weed is not any different from LSD or mushrooms except the fact that those drugs are self limiting. When you come down from LSD, you cant just take more LSD, so you have more oppurtinity to actually act on the things you learned.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Posts: 14,279
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19215136 - 12/01/13 11:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I don't see what the difference between hash and weed is??? Isn't the active ingredient THC?
No difference in THC, but like different liquors, despite the commonality of ethanol, I have noticed that people do seem to behave differently under certain formulations like tequila. I had an acquaintance that experienced the same thing that I do. He was the only person in almost 30 years who had some hash, and whereas his girlfriend's grass made him edgy and paranoid, the hash took him right out of it. Alas, they both moved to Asheville, NC before they broke up.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19215171 - 12/01/13 11:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your opinion is just that - YOUR opinion, which is completely tainted by your emotional reactivity and is nothing more than a piss-poor attempt to insult me. Try harder if that's who you are. Also, try re-reading my responses until you understand what I wrote, then you won't see the hypocrisy you want to see. Maybe you should PM me so I can explain it to you. Personal problem? Really? Play nicely.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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There's a higher concentration of THC in hash, like in upwards of 90% in the oils. So in other words, if you're edgy and paranoid, the problem is you didn't take enough
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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There is a lot of classic literature about high-dose hash trips. I tried high-dose edibles once and it was just as powerful as psilocybin or lsd. It seemed more time/thought oriented than transcendent. Time looped in small 10 second bursts within larger loops of one and ten minutes. It was hellacious.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I don't see what the difference between hash and weed is??? Isn't the active ingredient THC?
No difference in THC, but like different liquors, despite the commonality of ethanol, I have noticed that people do seem to behave differently under certain formulations like tequila. I had an acquaintance that experienced the same thing that I do. He was the only person in almost 30 years who had some hash, and whereas his girlfriend's grass made him edgy and paranoid, the hash took him right out of it. Alas, they both moved to Asheville, NC before they broke up.
Yet you choose to vilify bud on this basis alone? Imo that's irrational.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19215595 - 12/02/13 01:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well it's interesting that he's spoken out about hard liquor on more than one occasion, which is too strong, and causes great harm to society... Yet if you've read more than a dozen MtG posts, you'd know he loves merlot... Meanwhile, bud is too weak and causes paranoia, unlike the considerably stronger hashish.... Seems like you can't win the dosage game with him. 
Personally, I think it's important to realize that everyone has their own metabolism and neurotransmitters, and needs to use their own discretion as to what works..... Also, FWIW, with drugs like marijuana (and LSD for that matter) I've tended to acclimate myself to them.... What once required stronger doses, now no longer does - in my early 20s I'd always opt for that 3-5 hit psychedelic dose, and now I can get into the same psychedelic headspace with just two hits of acid, or a 1 hitter of 'heady nugs' instead of a night long smoke out. If you're out of the loop, it may take some time and a handful of experiences to know what you're talking about.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
Edited by CosmicJoke (12/02/13 01:33 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19215701 - 12/02/13 02:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think it's important to realize that everyone has their own metabolism and neurotransmitters, and needs to use their own discretion as to what works..
I'm totally convinced of the truth of this. And like I said I've had truly profound experiences on bud. It gets overused imo but really that's not the topic of this thread. I have no reason to believe it's a divine gift from some imaginary power.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Ultron
alchemist programmer




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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19215704 - 12/02/13 02:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Marijuana is a goddess she wraps me in her ever loving embrace daily
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19215758 - 12/02/13 02:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I think it's important to realize that everyone has their own metabolism and neurotransmitters, and needs to use their own discretion as to what works..
I'm totally convinced of the truth of this. And like I said I've had truly profound experiences on bud. It gets overused imo but really that's not the topic of this thread. I have no reason to believe it's a divine gift from some imaginary power.
Aye, but the OP abandoned the thread on the first page and here we are six pages in... so now there's not much left to argue over it, but I do find it interesting when MtG says marijuana is not a 'sacrament'... While I don't particularly believe in visible signs of inward 'spiritual divine grace' to begin with (as if any consensus on what that means could be came to), I find the term 'profound' more significant, in the sense of showing greater knowledge and insight than usual... That's all relative to the partaker, not the substance itself, in which some may have more profound experiences, while others may have exceedingly mundane experiences...
"I had a profound experience listening to Beethoven" - "Beethoven is not a sacrament!" You discern the profundity based on the description of the experience, it's not in the object.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19215958 - 12/02/13 05:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I don't see what the difference between hash and weed is??? Isn't the active ingredient THC?
I though the active ingredient was the brain, huhuh.
But actually the active ingredient alone isn't the only item of importance. In many things it's achieving the threshold dose necessary to cross whatever resistance, same thing applied to antibiotics. Acid works because the minute amount pushes the brain monoamines to a different level of functioning in a split second, the rest of the body takes time catching up - if the LSD infusion was very slow then nothing would be perceived.
...the unconscious may very well be the physiological which hasn't reached the plateau of consciousness....
-------------------- ...or something
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19215984 - 12/02/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I think it's important to realize that everyone has their own metabolism and neurotransmitters, and needs to use their own discretion as to what works..
I'm totally convinced of the truth of this. And like I said I've had truly profound experiences on bud. It gets overused imo but really that's not the topic of this thread. I have no reason to believe it's a divine gift from some imaginary power.
Aye, but the OP abandoned the thread on the first page and here we are six pages in... so now there's not much left to argue over it, but I do find it interesting when MtG says marijuana is not a 'sacrament'... While I don't particularly believe in visible signs of inward 'spiritual divine grace' to begin with (as if any consensus on what that means could be came to), I find the term 'profound' more significant, in the sense of showing greater knowledge and insight than usual... That's all relative to the partaker, not the substance itself, in which some may have more profound experiences, while others may have exceedingly mundane experiences...
"I had a profound experience listening to Beethoven" - "Beethoven is not a sacrament!" You discern the profundity based on the description of the experience, it's not in the object.
OK
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: eve69]
#19215989 - 12/02/13 05:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
eve69 said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I don't see what the difference between hash and weed is??? Isn't the active ingredient THC?
I though the active ingredient was the brain, huhuh.
But actually the active ingredient alone isn't the only item of importance. In many things it's achieving the threshold dose necessary to cross whatever resistance, same thing applied to antibiotics. Acid works because the minute amount pushes the brain monoamines to a different level of functioning in a split second, the rest of the body takes time catching up - if the LSD infusion was very slow then nothing would be perceived.
...the unconscious may very well be the physiological which hasn't reached the plateau of consciousness....
Take more or less hash, Smoke more or less bud. Same same don't you think?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
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Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19216968 - 12/02/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yet you choose to vilify bud on this basis alone? Imo that's irrational.
Dude, I only want to "taste" some hashish again, preferably something like the light crumbly yellow 'blond hash' of yesteryear. I do NOT want to start smoking/vaping hash again, and that's not even possible. It is the Rhinencephalon, the 'smell-brain,' so-called that I want to 'light up' with emotional associations. I will no doubt enjoy the euphoria, but in fact it is the smell and flavor that I wish to experience again. There are buried emotional states that can be re-experienced with the requisite stimulus to the smell brain. I am interested in using scents in conjunction with hypnotherapy to facilitate the evocation of repressed emotions. This is my own personal experiment. I'm never going be a regular user of cannabis again. 
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
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Who said anything about being a regular user.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Actually, I was one such stoner who made an inappropriate comment in jest when a girl in college stumbled on the last step and verbalized it. I did not get up to help. I was 18, and that lack of empathy was partly due to my immaturity and partly due to cannabis influence. On another occasion, while listening to a student present something in the 'Great Hall,' the presenter had a stutter. The crowded room was packed and silent. Not having a seat, I was watching from behind the rails of of a staircase. I let out a very inappropriate laugh, to which many heads turned in my direction. I knew the uncontrolled laugh was wrong even as it left my mouth. Today, I find nothing at all humorous about someone's difficulties no matter what form they take, but back then, being stoned made me more stupid than I already was due to other factors. Those instances were not able to be taken in any slap-stick sense, like someone missing their chair, stepping on a banana peel, etc. The responses were just wrong in those cases.
How do you know it was the marijuana, rather than immaturity? If the laughter was uncontrollable then how would not smoking weed have made it controllable?
I can admit that I do think more clearly when I don't smoke weed for long periods, but I also take things more seriously. I'm more of a jerk when I don't smoke weed and have a hard time sleeping.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19217092 - 12/02/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: Well it's interesting that he's spoken out about hard liquor on more than one occasion, which is too strong, and causes great harm to society... Yet if you've read more than a dozen MtG posts, you'd know he loves merlot... Meanwhile, bud is too weak and causes paranoia, unlike the considerably stronger hashish.... Seems like you can't win the dosage game with him. 
Personally, I think it's important to realize that everyone has their own metabolism and neurotransmitters, and needs to use their own discretion as to what works..... Also, FWIW, with drugs like marijuana (and LSD for that matter) I've tended to acclimate myself to them.... What once required stronger doses, now no longer does - in my early 20s I'd always opt for that 3-5 hit psychedelic dose, and now I can get into the same psychedelic headspace with just two hits of acid, or a 1 hitter of 'heady nugs' instead of a night long smoke out. If you're out of the loop, it may take some time and a handful of experiences to know what you're talking about.
Not for a while now - over Merlots. We still do share Cabernet Sauvignon, and Zinfandels these days. Occasionally I enjoy a cognac (I rather enjoy Remy Martin), but my wife avoids distilled spirits. I like my liver even more, so I don't drink to get intoxicated (root being 'toxic'). The marijuana I've been cajoled to try over the past several years (when TacticalBongHit used to visit us for example) got me stoned to the point of disorientation on one vaporizer hit, and the effects continued into the next day (about 10 hours duration). So today's hybridized Cannabis sativa/indica, which come in spectacular violet and orange colors, can be far more potent than the hashish I used to smoke.
I am not comparing or contrasting drug of choice, nor making any judgement over anyone else's choice. Lots of people, and some who I socialize with, smoke cannabis. I don't have anything against them, I simply stated that I do not want the professionals I have come to rely on to have their judgement compromised. Fly Guy used to be a member here, and he was a private jet pilot who'd call me whenever he flew into South Florida, and I'd pick him up at the airport. He and his co-pilot once showed up in time for Christmas dinner. During the years that he flew jets, he stopped smoking pot. Now that he doesn't fly jets, he enjoys it again. I respect his professional ethics. Hey, I don't want a drunk or hung-over pilot in control of the plane I'm on either. It is predicable that every time I express something negative about cannabis on this forum, it is met with emotional reactivity instead of the nonchalance that so many members express about most every other stereotypically controversial thing, like sex, religion, and politics. Go figure.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Not for a while now - over Merlots. We still do share Cabernet Sauvignon, and Zinfandels these days. Occasionally I enjoy a cognac (I rather enjoy Remy Martin), but my wife avoids distilled spirits. I like my liver even more, so I don't drink to get intoxicated (root being 'toxic'). The marijuana I've been cajoled to try over the past several years (when TacticalBongHit used to visit us for example) got me stoned to the point of disorientation on one vaporizer hit, and the effects continued into the next day (about 10 hours duration). So today's hybridized Cannabis sativa/indica, which come in spectacular violet and orange colors, can be far more potent than the hashish I used to smoke.
Again, it takes some time to acclimate yourself to cannabis. The disorientation would likely subside once your nervous system adjusted to it, and you might just appreciate the experience after but a few more sessions. If you were to go back to the first time you tasted a distilled spirit, you might have wanted to spit it out, yet over time you've come to enjoy them. Your first impression, relative to several decades of abstinence, might not be the best indicator of what you're capable of experiencing if you gave it a chance. While I'm not advocating this for you, I'm skeptical of your occasional tasting of cannabis to reaffirm what it is 'so that you know what you're talking about' for this reason. Without giving it some time, I'm not sure you do.
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I am not comparing or contrasting drug of choice, nor making any judgement over anyone else's choice. Lots of people, and some who I socialize with, smoke cannabis. I don't have anything against them, I simply stated that I do not want the professionals I have come to rely on[ to have their judgement compromised. Fly Guy used to be a member here, and he was a private jet pilot who'd call me whenever he flew into South Florida, and I'd pick him up at the airport. He and his co-pilot once showed up in time for Christmas dinner. During the years that he flew jets, he stopped smoking pot. Now that he doesn't fly jets, he enjoys it again. I respect his professional ethics. Hey, I don't want a drunk or hung-over pilot in control of the plane I'm on either. It is predicable that every time I express something negative about cannabis on this forum, it is met with emotional reactivity instead of the nonchalance that so many members express about most every other stereotypically controversial thing, like sex, religion, and politics. Go figure. 
I think many of us are in agreement that we'd prefer our professionals who we rely on to be operating with clarity and sobriety, and I most certainly do not support drug abuse. However, we're not in full agreement and this is a debate forum . When you paint cannabis out to be an opiate of the masses that subjugates lower class people (which may be true in some sense, but is certainly NOT an argument against using it), by all means I welcome you to visit my small Midwest hometown, and you can take a look at the kids who never grew up, got a real career, or left town goon their sad pub crawls and nurse their beers and 'get pissed', talking up their star days of high school football.... While sad, it's not a good reason to abstain from alcohol either, or to discard it from being a potential 'sacrament' (whatever that means).
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: teknix]
#19218000 - 12/02/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm more of a jerk when I don't smoke weed and have a hard time sleeping.
If sedation is necessary in your opinion, then you should ideally get to the root of the problem instead of merely treating symptoms. There is a price to be paid for any dependency.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
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It helps me tone it down, sometimes it can be a good thing, depending on who I'm associating with. It's just a natural medicine to me. It's not nearly as bad for you as liquor, which is purely for pleasure rather than anything medical.
Maybe you can boost your immune system with a bit of red wine polyphenols, but other than that, not really any benefit to it.
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: teknix]
#19218055 - 12/02/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm the kinda guy that likes to get high, As I stare into the clouds and watch the sky go by, I can't help but wonder why, it is such a crime, to smoke a bud of kind.
You know the kind I mean, It comes in shades of green. It eases my mind, and helps pass time, while slowly closing my eyes, blinding me to the havoc and chaos of life.
Edited by teknix (12/02/13 04:34 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: I'm more of a jerk when I don't smoke weed and have a hard time sleeping.
If sedation is necessary in your opinion, then you should ideally get to the root of the problem instead of merely treating symptoms. There is a price to be paid for any dependency.
No one gets to the "root" of their problems. Not from what I see. Not one poster here in all my years of posting here seems completely healthy to me. Not even close. Those that claim it are liars and phonies imo. And we are all dependent imo. Some of us can use socially sanctioned dependencies and tell ourselves that we are so very different from the others and don't have any but I don't buy it. I hear a lot of that bs around here.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: teknix]
#19218093 - 12/02/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: I'm the kinda guy that like to get high, As I stare into the clouds and watch the sky go by, I can't help but wonder why, it is such a crime, to smoke a bud of kind.
You know the kind I mean, It comes in shades of green. It helps pass time, while slowly closing my eyes, blinding me to the havoc and chaos of life.
And those that play by the rules of society and obey the law and play the game by the civilized rules of being normal can look down on the rest but I'm not buying it. I see them for what they are. But they likely never will. Of course that's just my opinion and could well be bs. But I wasn't born yesterday.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19218102 - 12/02/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I forgot a part, can you re-quote it?
Meh, I don't think MTG is looking down on anyone really, just giving us info on his personal choice.
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Icelander
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: teknix]
#19218114 - 12/02/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wasn't responding specifically about him but in general. I don't know if he is or not.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19218169 - 12/02/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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it takes some time to acclimate yourself to cannabis
This is precisely what I do not want to do. The cannabinoids are fat soluble, and I have seen microtome sections of brain cells of a regular user present as amber-colored, not clear. Perhaps this effect is akin to seeing life through "rose-colored glasses," seeing through amber-colored Purkinje and Pyramidal cells. One quickly develops tolerance to most drugs requiring increased dosages, but with sufficient levels of THC stored in brain tissue, less may actually be required simply to initiate a threshold effect. People here often say that they no longer have to imbibe as much as they used to. There's a reason for that - retention of THC in the neuronal tissue. When I began to use cannabis products in '69, I remember having to smoke 6 times before I finally 'got stoned.' The stuff was maybe 4-7% THC back then compared to 20+% as it can be today. We used to say that you had to 'acquire a head,' which was to say, build up enough THC in one's brain in order to cross a threshold for inebriation to occur.
At any rate, my 'bucket list' is very modest. I want to finish Joseph Campbell's The Masks of God series, and read Plato: Complete Works, Cooper translation. If it ever stops raining this year, I want to paint all the wood on my house after I finish repairing the rotten parts. Neither of these kinds of activities have ever been helped by being stoned. In fact, neither has meditation along Buddhist lines. Relating to my wife, sexually or otherwise, with only one of us stoned is not gonna work either. There doesn't seem to be a place in my psyche for going about in the stoned state any more. I can't even find a purpose behind doing it again, except as I said to Icelander - as an experiment with my 'smell-brain' to evoke old emotions.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19218275 - 12/02/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
If sedation is necessary in your opinion, then you should ideally get to the root of the problem instead of merely treating symptoms. There is a price to be paid for any dependency.

Quote:
Icelander said:
No one gets to the "root" of their problems. Not from what I see. Not one poster here in all my years of posting here seems completely healthy to me. Not even close. Those that claim it are liars and phonies imo. And we are all dependent imo. Some of us can use socially sanctioned dependencies and tell ourselves that we are so very different from the others and don't have any but I don't buy it. I hear a lot of that bs around here.
I think you can get to the root of a problem and solve it (which isn't to imply that once solved you won't be faced with a new problem.) We're problem solvers by nature, no other animal is in such a continual state of dissatisfaction . There is no final rest from this process, no Utopia. Challenge is always on the horizon.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19218312 - 12/02/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No one gets to the "root" of their problems. Not from what I see. Not one poster here in all my years of posting here seems completely healthy to me. Not even close. Those that claim it are liars and phonies imo. And we are all dependent imo. Some of us can use socially sanctioned dependencies and tell ourselves that we are so very different from the others and don't have any but I don't buy it. I hear a lot of that bs around here.
Your obvious cynicism is not something that you even consider a problem, so you will remain cynical about mental health for the unforeseeable future. I disagree completely with your conclusions because (1) wholeness is an ideal that increases incrementally but which isn't a static state of perfection, and I have grown healthier (more whole) over my lifespan. I have undone much the programming installed by my well-intentioned but neurotic parents. (2) I have personally helped people undo binds that have left them with long-held symptoms, be they phobias, or some other psychosomatic disability like a stutter, or gotten to the basis of poor self-esteem and watched people blossom. I have seen people let go of various drug addictions and change their lifestyle to a healthier (less dependent) one. People have thanked you for helping them here, and I wonder why you blink those cases, only choosing to see the down side. 
Very few people (according to Abraham Maslow), forsake the usual avenues of personal satisfaction for the ideal of Self-Actualization. Those people concern themselves with wholeness ("Being"), continually moving towards this receding horizon. Dependencies thin as one's stance changes from "Deficiency" ("D-Cognition") to "Being" ("B-Cognition"). Too bad, this many years after the psychedelic 60s and 70s that more people at these forums have never read or discussed Maslow's work. It was Maslow who coined the term "Peak Experience" which became shortened to 'Peak' or 'Peaking' in connection to tripping, but it embodies possibilities and is an optimistic psychology.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



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So what could be the root of the problem?
Being high relaxes me, just as drinking liquor relaxes you, what is the difference and why shouldn't the same apply to you? Do you have a problem that needs fixed since you drink?
Do you think it is possible to take away my liking of the feeling I get from smoking weed or the liking of the feeling you get from drinking?
I never claimed sedation was "necessary" because I can function without it, it just isn't preferable in all instances. Obviously I'm not stoned at school and I haven't even been stoned since I came to the university, and my grades aren't that much different at all.
Edited by teknix (12/02/13 06:03 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19218456 - 12/02/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
If sedation is necessary in your opinion, then you should ideally get to the root of the problem instead of merely treating symptoms. There is a price to be paid for any dependency.

Quote:
Icelander said:
No one gets to the "root" of their problems. Not from what I see. Not one poster here in all my years of posting here seems completely healthy to me. Not even close. Those that claim it are liars and phonies imo. And we are all dependent imo. Some of us can use socially sanctioned dependencies and tell ourselves that we are so very different from the others and don't have any but I don't buy it. I hear a lot of that bs around here.
I think you can get to the root of a problem and solve it (which isn't to imply that once solved you won't be faced with a new problem.) We're problem solvers by nature, no other animal is in such a continual state of dissatisfaction . There is no final rest from this process, no Utopia. Challenge is always on the horizon.
When it comes to personal psychology there would be no way to know with any assurance you had gotten to the root of a problem. We are very very complex creatures. Not to say one doesn't make headway on issues.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
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There is a price to be paid for any dependency.
I don't think this is necessarily true. Drug use is often not a problem as long as there is a constant supply. A few hundred years ago when opium dens were common, some people would live their entire life addicted to opium. Today some people live their entire lives addicted to nicotine or oxycodone pain pills.
Sure, there are side effects (cigarettes cause cancer), and drugs can be used to overdose (heroin death from respiratory depression), but these things are not necessarily always the case.
The problem with drugs comes mostly when the supply is interrupted due to morality laws and the addict goes into withdrawal. There are currently millions of people addicted to doctor-prescribed opioids and they live relatively normal lives as long as they can get their script filled once a month.
As the saying goes: "I used to have a drug problem. Now I make enough money".
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: teknix]
#19219772 - 12/02/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: So what could be the root of the problem?
Being high relaxes me, just as drinking liquor relaxes you, what is the difference and why shouldn't the same apply to you? Do you have a problem that needs fixed since you drink?
Do you think it is possible to take away my liking of the feeling I get from smoking weed or the liking of the feeling you get from drinking?
I never claimed sedation was "necessary" because I can function without it, it just isn't preferable in all instances. Obviously I'm not stoned at school and I haven't even been stoned since I came to the university, and my grades aren't that much different at all.
These are YOUR words: I'm more of a jerk when I don't smoke weed and have a hard time sleeping. I was responding to them. The issue isn't a contest between wine and pot. The issue isn't your choice and mine. The issue was your comment. I smoked cannabis for a decade and was done with it over a decade before you were born, if you're in college. I don't care what your choice is, you'll discover on your own if you like smoking too much, and if it helps or hurts your academics. Wine is part of my daily meal, just as it is in many countries outside of Budweiser-USA. I don't drink, as in an act of getting drunk, or to sedate myself, or to sleep. And if I do drink a bit too much wine, my wife is always available to let me know if I'm being a jerk without actually calling me a jerk.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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You're right, I did say that, but I meant that I don't sleep as well or have a harder time sleeping, I mean of course I can sleep.
Working out can help, or burning a bunch of energy somehow so I exhaust myself, but it still doesn't feel as nice as smoking a fatty. By being a jerk I mean I have less patience.
Weed seems to make me more patient, and things seem to have less of an urgency.
I also feel much more creative, like drawing/graphics or writing a poem is more fun. Games also seem a lot more fun. They are actually kind of boring if I'm not high.
Edited by teknix (12/03/13 12:22 AM)
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LittleDipster


Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 4,141
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: teknix]
#19220504 - 12/03/13 02:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
things seem to have less of an urgency.
this can become a problem for most people who smoke constantly, and is why its common that a lot of stoners seem to lose motivation.
Quote:
They are actually kind of boring if I'm not high.
this can also lead to problems for some. People often smoke out of boredom, which eventually leads to not being able to enjoy much of anything in everyday life unless they're high.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Wine is part of my daily meal
Ahhh, the "your drug is bad but my drug is good" bullshit again.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Diploid]
#19220901 - 12/03/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I take time to whine daily myself.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Libertin
Absurdist


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 959
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19220945 - 12/03/13 07:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: No one gets to the "root" of their problems... And we are all dependent imo. Some of us can use socially sanctioned dependencies and tell ourselves that we are so very different from the others and don't have any but I don't buy it. I hear a lot of that bs around here.
That's some wisdom right there.
"We are all dependent" is a beautifully succinct way to summarise what I think about the issue. I equate the 'root' of the problem to the human condition, it is inescapable. It is simply in our nature; perpetual restlessness and dissatisfaction - as deep rooted as any of our instincts. Futile grasping in the search for meaning, satisfaction and wholeness.
Some people over eat, others over exercise, or smoke weed, obsess, gamble, drink, etcetera.
We all yearn.
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Icelander
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Libertin]
#19220971 - 12/03/13 07:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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And some people read books on spirituality and philosophy and pontificate.
In the end they are quite similar in effect.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Your opinion is just that - YOUR opinion, which is completely tainted by your emotional reactivity and is nothing more than a piss-poor attempt to insult me. Try harder if that's who you are. Also, try re-reading my responses until you understand what I wrote, then you won't see the hypocrisy you want to see. Maybe you should PM me so I can explain it to you. Personal problem? Really? Play nicely. 
You make claims that hash is different from weed and that one is somehow better at least for you. Of course, both are somehow bad because that's your opinion. Other than satisfying the smell brain with the hash.
So yeah, I think that's hypocritical.
Then you make some claim that if you were to smoke weed again you might do some douchebaggy things or even become a douchebag. Your words. I don't see the connection from weed to douchebaggery. It seems like an excuse, like when people drink and say things they don't mean when they really do.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19221202 - 12/03/13 09:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You make claims that hash is different from weed and that one is somehow better at least for you.
No. You need to read more carefully. Then you might not come to ridiculous conclusions like this! That is certainly not my absurd conclusion.
Then you make some claim that if you were to smoke weed again you might do some douchebaggy things or even become a douchebag. Your words.
Never said anything of the sort. YOUR thoughts, NOT my words. I said if I drink too much wine, and behave like a jerk, my wife lets me know, politely. I'm not afraid of being a "douchbag." It is not something I've been accused of since junior high school, and my peers don't talk like they're in junior high school any more. I simply do not want to use something that made me unfocused, forgetful, fuzzy-minded, and somewhat stupid in the past, just because it feels good. If I suffer from anxiety, I'm going to attack the root-problem, not cover up the feelings with drugs. I do therapy on myself, including the use of Yogas for doing depth-psychology. If you haven't experienced negative symptoms from cannabis yet, how nice for you. If you have, but you're in denial, or if you don't care about clarity of mind, then again, we have nothing further to discuss.
Best advice: Stop responding to me on this thread. You're not getting it and I'm weary of trying to clarify a singularly unimportant point. I have nothing to discuss if it's a discussion about something I simply do not want, need, do, or care about doing. Meanwhile, you are trying to defend something that YOU choose to do, but why be defensive to me when I'm not attacking your position? I don't care if you smoke pot. I have spoken plainly. It's not that I have spoken hypocritically, you are confused.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: Icelander]
#19221213 - 12/03/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: And some people read books on spirituality and philosophy and pontificate.
In the end they are quite similar in effect.
We're all human, but it's the measure of cynicism, indifference, or hostility that varies in proportion to the philosophy we adopt.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: it takes some time to acclimate yourself to cannabis
This is precisely what I do not want to do. The cannabinoids are fat soluble, and I have seen microtome sections of brain cells of a regular user present as amber-colored, not clear. Perhaps this effect is akin to seeing life through "rose-colored glasses," seeing through amber-colored Purkinje and Pyramidal cells. One quickly develops tolerance to most drugs requiring increased dosages, but with sufficient levels of THC stored in brain tissue, less may actually be required simply to initiate a threshold effect. People here often say that they no longer have to imbibe as much as they used to. There's a reason for that - retention of THC in the neuronal tissue. When I began to use cannabis products in '69, I remember having to smoke 6 times before I finally 'got stoned.' The stuff was maybe 4-7% THC back then compared to 20+% as it can be today. We used to say that you had to 'acquire a head,' which was to say, build up enough THC in one's brain in order to cross a threshold for inebriation to occur.
So much of your information is anecdotal in nature that I can't help but find it discouraging. I just spent some time googling (something I have a knack for) for any information regarding discoloration of brain cells due to habitual marijuana usage and found nothing relevant. Can you point me towards anything I can also see? I too did not get high for the first handful of attempts at smoking pot, but they were also awkward, clumsy experiences for me as a non-smoker who had never so much as had a cigarette - everything from lighting a pipe to holding down a hit was a challenge, as well as having no idea what to expect. I'd be interested to see what happens to somebody whose first experience was a good ganja cookie or tincture. My bet is they do get high, but I'm not certain. Also, I never seem to turn up much information on the potency of cannabis over time, aside from propaganda sites trying to stir up fears about 21st century space weed, giving me the impression that you were all savages, smoking seed and stemmed packed Mexican brick weed.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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LittleDipster


Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 4,141
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19221829 - 12/03/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think the reason most people don't get high their first time is because they aren't smoking it right. They can't inhale it deeply into their lungs and often don't smoke enough. My first time I was made sure I smoked enough and held it down to where I got the highest I've ever been.
Quote:
I just spent some time googling (something I have a knack for) for any information regarding discoloration of brain cells due to habitual marijuana usage and found nothing relevant.
I'm interested in this as well.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Marijuana is a gift from divinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19222038 - 12/03/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'll have to look myself for the photomicrographs I saw long ago of resin-permeated brain tissue. I DID have to clean seeds and stems for years, and we used to use an open 2-record album for cleaning the grass. The seeds and stems would roll-slide to the center fold. When we were just starting out, we even tried smoking crushed seeds! (Harsh! Yecch!). I also found the process of smoking a challenge, since I too never smoked a ciggy. Mexican was most common, then Jamaican. Colombian was the most potent, sometimes almost green-black in color. Thai sticks came later and were the priciest. Once in a while, the famed 'Acapulco Gold' would be around, which was gold in color, or 'Panama Red.' Once I had Indian ganja. There were a lot more names around than actual types I think.
Hashish ranged from cellophane wrapped, elephant-stamped, Indian white bone-hash (which I never tried) to pale yellow 'blond' hash that came in darker and darker 'blonds' to a light, gooey green 'kif.' Then there was the blond to tan colors that moved to brown 'Afghani' hash. I also had a 'Red Lebanese' hash on occasion. Lastly, there were 'black' hashishes, which I think were U.S. concoctions using solvents. Sometimes white stripes ran through them and they were called 'opiated hash.' Not my favorite, there may have been pine tars or turpentine in them. I once saw green and red checkerboard patterns across my parents' pool after smoking some of that.
One guy who used to make delivery with a suitcase filled with 1/2 lb. aluminum foil wrapped slabs, either had a Shepherd attack dog on a short lease, or later, an Uzi machine-pistol. This was a disturbing development of the peace-love vibe, of actually dealing with professional dealers. A number of people simply had their pet-plant in their closet with a lamp on it, and smoked the fallen leaves in college dorms. Not very strong I'm sure, but like growing your own mushrooms (although not yet in the early 70s, that didn't begin til maybe '79 or '80), you didn't have to mix with more the seriously criminal element.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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