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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Just thinking about working out will make you stronger
    #19166010 - 11/20/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yup cause of neural plasticity.

your muscles won't get any bigger but you will be able to exert more force.

lift those imaginary weights, guys

Yue, G.  & Cole, K. J.  1992  Joural of Neurophysiology, 67, 1114-1123


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Registered: 07/17/11
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: NWlight] * 1
    #19166014 - 11/20/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I just put on 20 lbs of muscle thanks to this thread


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InvisiblezZZz
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I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: B_BOY]
    #19166077 - 11/20/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

good to know. i've been thinking a lot about working out lately. my muscles just keep getting bigger :whatyougonnado:


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: zZZz]
    #19166134 - 11/20/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Positive thinking has done wonders for how I am viewed by others!


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19166208 - 11/20/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

that's outdated

someone with proper knowledge and the same strength/weight would wreck you OP if they just did explosive reps


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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Konyap]
    #19166223 - 11/20/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
that's outdated

someone with proper knowledge and the same strength/weight would wreck you OP if they just did explosive reps



I think you missed the point entirely.  of course voluntary contractions would elicit more hypertrophy than imagined contractions, I never said it wouldn't.


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: NWlight]
    #19166232 - 11/20/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no i didn't the study is based off of outdated methods

if you played sports you'd get assraped by genetics


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Konyap]
    #19166239 - 11/20/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yea which is what they didn't take into account back then


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Konyap]
    #19166240 - 11/20/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

there have been a bunch of studies on that. unless i'm wrong, i'm pretty sure you actually do build muscle mass.

its not "just thinking about it" in the conventional sense though.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa


Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: NWlight]
    #19166241 - 11/20/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I had a friend that was cut and never worked out.  He  tightened his muscles a lot.  Like standing inline he'd be doing an ab work out that sort of thing.  Just clenching groups of muscles.


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InvisibleNWlight
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Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Konyap]
    #19166248 - 11/20/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
no i didn't the study is based off of outdated methods

if you played sports you'd get assraped by genetics



Quote:

Illyabo said:
yea which is what they didn't take into account back then





All I'm saying is that neural plasticity can increase strength without any contractions, especially in untrained individuals.

I'm not saying that actually working out isn't better.

do you english?


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InvisibleNWlight
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Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: teamkiller]
    #19166257 - 11/20/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teamkiller said:
there have been a bunch of studies on that. unless i'm wrong, i'm pretty sure you actually do build muscle mass.

its not "just thinking about it" in the conventional sense though.



There is no increase in muscle mass, as demonstrated by supramaximal stimulation of the ulnar nerve yielding no change in force, before and after a few weeks of "imagined" contractions.

Ashe, J. & Ugurbil, K (1994) Functional imaging of the motor system. Current opinion in Neurobiology, 4, 832-839


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: NWlight]
    #19166260 - 11/20/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it's a dumb study

of course they could get those findings if person A had some knowledge of breathing correctly with mucles that react quicker and person B didn't

what the fuck do you want me to say?

watch old boy or something

the guy has iron fist


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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Konyap] * 3
    #19166276 - 11/20/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

At least I know you're trolling now, I thought you were legitimately retarded for a minute


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: NWlight]
    #19166292 - 11/20/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

well the study and your op is worded crappy

if you said "You will be able to catch footballs better by thinking about catching footballs" then that would be fine

saying you're stronger because you think about reacting quicker seems far fetched

it's more like saying "if you aren't a total lazy ass and THINK about working out you will put up more."


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InvisibleNWlight
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Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Konyap]
    #19166302 - 11/20/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Again, I think you're missing the point entirely.

if a non-trained individual thinks about clenching their fist but doesnt actually do it for an hour a day for a few weeks, they will actually be able to clench their fist harder than if they hadn't done the mental exercises. 

this is due to your nervous system adapting


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: NWlight]
    #19166369 - 11/20/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Kinda hard to imagine that "intensely thinking" about moving/exercising wouldn't result in some amount of voluntary movement though.  I wonder how they controlled for that.

I'd also be interested in the instructional set given to participants, that could easily affect expectancy.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Edited by badchad (11/20/13 04:52 PM)


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OfflineSchmendrick
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Konyap] * 1
    #19166424 - 11/20/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
that's outdated

someone with proper knowledge and the same strength/weight would wreck you OP if they just did explosive reps




Bro, do you even lift?  :burke:


Edited by Schmendrick (11/20/13 05:05 PM)


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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
I bleed nicotine...
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Registered: 09/23/07
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Schmendrick]
    #19167325 - 11/20/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's visualization, not thinking.

I visualize fighting and shadow box by myself all the time... Come at me bro.


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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #19167332 - 11/20/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

the word they used in the study was "imagining" :shrug:


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OfflineKGB Is Go
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: NWlight]
    #19167729 - 11/20/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've thought about this stuff a bit - including for exercise/working out - it's very cool.

There was a three part Australian documentary series recently, "Redesign My Brain", which had an episode which focused on physical training, and featured this approach. The test subject (presenter) was being tested/trained by the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS), and one of the tests was throwing darts with his non-preferred hand. After completing his first trial, they told him to mentally practice the act of throwing the darts, and without actually throwing any darts he improved considerably by his second (and final) trial.

Yes, it's film and they could have dodgied the results but the fact the AIS uses this approach is quite significant IMO. Athletes talk about visualisation all the time too.

The book "Evolve Your Brain", by Dr. Joe Dispenza, details this approach mainly for the application of healing. He used this method to heal his back which was completely fucked from being hit by a car while riding a bike. From his own experience he then went on to study events of miraculous (spontaneous) healing in other people and compiled a list of key elements in their approach to healing. From memory, it was mainly a matter of making the imagined experience as real as possible in order to achieve the greatest result, and this generally involved losing your (local) sense of space and time.

Jazz musician (pianist) Kenny Werner also details this approach to playing piano in his book "Effortless Mastery" - citing a study which had groups of people practice piano in different ways (some practicing physically, others mentally, and others not at all). The people who practiced mentally were significantly better than those who did not practice at all.

I just wish I was more motivated and committed to incorporating this practice into my life... The main way I've used it is for social anxiety - imagining positive conversations and interactions with people. In conjunction with other things, it's worked well.


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OfflineJohnny Depp
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: KGB Is Go]
    #19167791 - 11/20/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

.


Edited by Johnny Depp (12/19/14 05:40 PM)


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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
I bleed nicotine...
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Johnny Depp]
    #19167826 - 11/20/13 10:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Imagining and visualization is pretty much the same thing, I remember reading about it years ago.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Just thinking about working out will make you stronger [Re: Johnny Depp]
    #19167827 - 11/20/13 10:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19158322

^

theory that evolution happens within consciousness primarily which allow for beneficial physical mutations to follow vs the dogmatic typical interpretation of the observation of evolution where physical evolution is the primary cause for higher consciousness.

I feel the science discussed in this thread supports this theory.


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