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Offlinetopdog82
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I don't get Kurt Cobain?
    #19164018 - 11/20/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I enjoy his music. But I feel I really can't seem to pinpoint what he is trying to say.

What does Nirvana's music mean to you?

Obviously music is a subjective experience and so there is no right answer. just wondering your guys' opinions?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: topdog82]
    #19164028 - 11/20/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

maybe you don't get him cause he's not. :haha:

I've always thought Nirvana was :boring:


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: Icelander]
    #19164089 - 11/20/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I like that he didn't glamourized his drug usage. It irks me when people flaunt their usage like it's some sort of badge. Different strokes, I guess. Seems like insecurity to me, though.


Anyway, best cover ever?



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: Penelope_Tree] * 1
    #19164281 - 11/20/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:

It irks me when people flaunt their usage like it's some sort of badge. Different strokes, I guess. Seems like insecurity to me, though.




Well then you must have a blast at the shroomery. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Offlineeve69
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: Icelander]
    #19164353 - 11/20/13 10:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Kurt Cobain was young and a bit in over his head.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: topdog82]
    #19164635 - 11/20/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think he was trying to say anything. :shrug:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: White Beard] * 1
    #19164641 - 11/20/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Oh he probably thought he was. I have yet to meet a person not trying to say something. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: Icelander]
    #19164664 - 11/20/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

maybe. here is a video of john lennon saying that a lot of his songs he'd just put words together and see if it makes sense or not.


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Invisibler72rock
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #19164690 - 11/20/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

In his journals, he admits to just writing lyrics as filler. The lyrics to Smells like Teen Spirit don't have too much merit imo.

Some of his songs were written for a purpose though. Like Heart Shaped Box, he wrote that for Courtney.

I ultimately feel like Kurt Cobain was a pretty poor guitar player, but a great musician. He got what he needed out of a guitar to make music, and I still enjoy his work. I don't think Kurt Cobain was too great of a person though. :lol:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: White Beard]
    #19164712 - 11/20/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
maybe. here is a video of john lennon saying that a lot of his songs he'd just put words together and see if it makes sense or not.







still trying to say something. :shrug:

Plus wtf did JL know about him in reality?  I rarely tell people the whole truth about my motives.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: Icelander]
    #19164720 - 11/20/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, true

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OfflineHeffy
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: topdog82] * 2
    #19166287 - 11/20/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I used to say that Kurt Cobain was a huge loser.

Recently I became interested in him again.
These days I'm inclined to think he accomplished more than most people ever will.
He attained his two lifelong dreams, being a famous rockstar, and killing himself.


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Offlineflipsidetrue
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: Heffy] * 1
    #19166321 - 11/20/13 04:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

my g/f loves nirvana, what i liked about nirvana was all the distortion he used some people think he was bad ass at guitar but anyone with an electric and enough distortion can sound like they know what their doing

i think some of his songs had meaning like heart shaped box but then you hear polly wants a cracker he was probably faded out and came up with some ridiculous junk he thought was catchy and was like hey im gunna do something with this just for the hell of it


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: eve69]
    #19167096 - 11/20/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I did a good listen over. Obviously the point of music is to convey emotions that go beyond words

That being said, it seems like he constantly between the two ways to perceive the world. Pissed and frustrated. And then not giving a fuck about it. There is a constant theme of contrasts between almost all of his more well-known songs

And no he was not a good guitarist. But personally I think he was a great muscian. I am yet to really see that greatness in rock bands after them or before them for at least a decade or two

And in a way that I can't explain but the name of his band seems to adequately sum up exactly how he feels about his message

and no he doesn't glorify drug use. I am also yet to see that in a lot of bands. It seems like drugs are a common reoccuring theme in all types of music. Whether hinted or explicity mentioned. Ie psytrance doesnt talk about drugs but the sound of it I feel is a good attempt at mimicking the feeling of being on drugs. Kurt didn't really talk about drugs at all

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OfflineKafei
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: topdog82]
    #19168609 - 11/21/13 04:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I used to be obsessed with Kurt Cobain as a teenager, I sort of philosophically looked up to the guy. I collected and read all the interviews he ever did, interviews his wife and band ever did, any interview involving anyone in his family like his mom, aunts, uncles, etc. I had pretty much near a terabyte of bootleg concerts, more video recorded interviews, and all the other videos he did, etc. I think you get the point. I no longer listen to Nirvana, and my obsession with Kurt died long ago, but nevertheless I found the whole phenomenon of Nirvana's explosion of fame to be interesting.

Anyway, when I was about 17, I wrote an exegesis of the song "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and got a lot of positive feedback and appraisal for it at what used to be  "SongMeanings.net". It no longer exists, and so a lot of that material was lost. However, I did manage to save the post. I started off with a quote from Kurt and I'll re-post it below. Again, mind you, I was 17 when I typed this stuff out, and so please don't hold me to any of this stuff. If you want some citation as to the reference of interviews with Kurt that I mention, maybe I could find something, but I'll admit that some of it is nonsensical, but there are a few things that make sense here:

Quote:

"These lyrics defy logic but they do evoke imagery and then sounds through the music which I supposedly keep as simple as possible in song. Less is more. This simple rule applies to lyrical imagery. The songs are closer to sketches with words or impressionist paintings. They have made different meanings to people and that is what great music or poetry does. There is not a correct analysis as to the meaning of the words and there was none intended. The music in all its simplicity and the abstract thought that represents the lyrical imagery are to evoke comparison and paradox. The music then soars like the spirit." -Kurt




Correct lyrics, as written by Kurt Cobain:
"Load up on guns, bring your friends it's fun to lose and to pretend."

These words refer to people who try so hard to keep an image which is really useless, with the right choices, experiences, opportunities.. anyone could fulfill a certain image. It's an excuse to feed their ego. It'd be just as easy to spray paint 'Kill George Bush' over and over again. Whether that would have an impact on anything or not it doesn't matter, it's still fun to do it. Which is applicable to the line 'It's fun to lose and to pretend'. Though, it is apparent in both sexes, it's more evident in males.

"She's overboard and self-assured, oh no, I know a dirty word"

I think he may be referring to narcissistic, overenthusiastic girls.. you know, like the stuck up cheerleader for ex. The part where he says 'dirty word' is an obvious indirect reference to 'bitch'.
The sentence is basically explaining a female that is stuck up and close-minded.. attributes of a bitch.

"Hello, hello, hello, how low?"

Is anybody there? It'd be nice to rapport with people of your caliber or higher.

"With the lights out, it's less dangerous"

Interesting metaphor, this is kind of like "Ignorance is Bliss". If you're blind to the truth (with the lights out), then you have less worries. I think this is a very ambiguous line.

"Here we are now, entertain us"

I've read once in an interview with Kurt (There's a lot of them on the net) he use to say this to break the ice at a party. He might be referring to people constantly averting themselves from being bored. Why would he bring this up? Maybe, if we're made in "Gods Image" we're probably just here to keep god from being bored? j/k Honestly, I'm not sure.

"I feel stupid and contagious"

Obvious satire. I know Kurt was a real big fan of William S. Burroughs. I think that's why he wore those bifocals. Burroughs once said, "Language is virus.” I can try and explain this in metaphorical terms... Any information you receive through your senses is a virus, while your brain cells are the host.

Words especially, words are very expressive, after all, that is their purpose. Right now you are staring at colored light making silhouettes of what you understand as "letters", but if you didn't know this language, these words would make no sense at all. Kurt new this and exploited it. For example, some of the songs he created, he tried to have sinister ambience musically wise, while he used blissful lyrics, or vice versa. I don't think Kurt ever considered himself "smart", in a lot of his interviews he'd prefer to call himself an "experienced simpleton". In a sense, everyone is ignorant and naive, smart is only in the eye of the beholder. I guess what Kurt considered genius we probably couldn't understand.. here's a quote from an interview...

"I don't think genius has anything to do with education and knowledge. It has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. It is a kind of incommunicable power of creative thought that has nothing to do with traditional learning because it can't be taught. To be taught requires a willingness to learn and a genius' undefined thought process can't follow a logical succession of ideas. That's why poetry, or my lyrics transcend thought. Musical thought, as I know it, creates and defies pattern and logic." - Kurt

"A mulatto, an albino, a mosquito, my libido, Yeah!"

I think he's talking about the transferring of fluids. Nowadays no one is of one pure race. I think this particular line is a rant against racism. Libido is sexual desire, and can result in a person that is a mixture of all races. Kurt took advantage of William Burroughs' cut-up literary technique as well as William James' "stream of consciousness" literary technique in his poetry wherein you recite concepts that elicit certain concepts that will cohere in a stream of consciousness. A mulatto is a person of a white and black parent, an albinism is a condition in which there is an absence of pigment in the skin, a mosquito can represent the transference of DNA from one host to another, and of course, libido can be implicit to another form of transference of DNA or bodily fluids which can result in a mulatto, etc.

"I'm worse at what I do best and for this gift I feel blessed"

This line is an appreciation for opinions. Without them, Kurt wouldn't have experienced stardom. While the line may sound like an amphigouri, with further attention, the meaning becomes pretty apparent. Due to our opinions, the line 'I'm worst at what I do best' is valid. And the reason he feels blessed is because it has brought him great fortune. And by fortune, I don't mean money, I don't think Kurt valued money that much. I mean fortune as in having the opportunity to touch people with his music. Kurt even wrote a song entitled "Opinion," and there's a line that goes, "They rise and fall like wall street stock, and they have an affect on our peace talk."

"Our little group has always been and always will until the end"

This one stumped me. Maybe, it means, since everything you eat your body takes from it and it accumulates to your growth, so in a sense, you were always here, you were just spread around the earth. And even after you die, you don't leave existence, your matter still lies in the form of decadence or ash. It's only your brain that ceases function which ends your so called "reality". Actually, I'm just kidding but you never know, Kurt was a very philosophical person. This interpretation could be right, or not. Although, I liked Chocolate's interpretation for this line on page 22, it's the best I've heard.

"And I forget just why I taste, oh yeah, I guess it makes me smile"

I forget why I've chose to live out this tedious path (life), oh yeah, "I guess it makes me smile" (metaphor for happiness, maybe?). I think Kurt is questioning life, or questioning question. The only thing that will ever will be valued in your life will be what that organ behind your eyes chooses to find value in. Kurt is trying to find some values I guess, because he burnt out the ones he already had.


"I found it hard, it's hard to find, oh well, whatever, never mind"

Because most people would just as soon forget or just say 'never mind' than take a can of spray paint or start a band, make up excuses for not starting a band. People just don't do things very often any more. This disturbed Kurt intensely. This is actually verbatim from an interview where Kurt is asked, "Why name the album Nevermind?" So, you can, if you'd like, take any piece from there, surround it by quotes in Google, then add Kurt's name, and I'm sure you'll find the transcript of the interview.

And finally, "A denial!" ... I think this means the thoughts that derive from your instinct or hormones can be overwritten with your mind. Some examples would be people who practice celibacy or suicide as in denying existence. Though, there are many types of denials, even ones you unwittingly act upon.

Now as for "Teen Spirit" being the greatest song, it truly is a matter of opinion, you can't argue over two opposing opinions, it's pointless, you'll get nowhere, unless you could convince the other person to agree with your opinion. But, it could be the best song or it can't, it all depends on you.

To sum up the meaning of "Smells Like Teen Spirit"

(Metaphor with a biblical reference)
It's about hey brother, especially sister, throw away the fruit and eat all the rind.
(Metaphor on provoked diversity)
No longer is it taboo forte tattooed to take their generational solidarity and Byrds and Herman's Hermits-loving disgraces we call parents...
(What to contrive)
Posing as the enemy to infiltrate the mechanics of the system and slowly start its rot from the inside. It's an inside job. It starts with the custodians and the cheerleaders... and this was the concept behind the music video, too. That's why you see the Cheerleader's wearing Anarchist symbols and the Janitor swayin' his head to Teen Spirit.

Or not, most people just listen, your aural sensors can be viewed as a passive receptacle for sensory experience.

Don't obsess over words so much, but if you must know the lyrics, find the meaning behind the words, then decide.

Edited by Kafei (05/10/15 01:39 AM)

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OfflineKafei
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: Kafei]
    #19168640 - 11/21/13 04:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I want to add that reading these interviews definitely does give you insight into some of the lyrics, because you can gain a better sense of where Kurt's coming from. For instance, and this is probably a bad example, but I'll mention it anyway. The song "Heart-Shaped Box" was a song he dedicated to Courtney. But you see, and I couldn't point to the specific interview, but I'll link you to an archive of Nirvana interviews that someone has conveniently collected and organized. Kurt points out that most "love songs" are filled with lyrics that are so general that they could literally be told to anyone. You know, sort of like Justin Bieber songs dedicated to a "girl," but you see, the "girl" in his song is basically a variable in that the lyrics could be sung to any girl and the lyrics would still apply. Basically, the same thing is found in people's Horoscopes where statements so general are made as to be applied to a broad spectrum. Now, with Heart-Shaped Box, on the other hand, Kurt deliberately makes these inside references in the lyrics that only Courtney would understand, and so you see, it's not your stereotypical love song. Dave Grohl even mentions that Kurt had given him a heart-shaped box filled with these little trinkets to give to Courtney.

Kurt's journal is an interesting read, too. I mean, as an aside, something funny to mention that is completely irrelevant is that Kurt was purchasing "Rogaine," because he thought he was beginning to see the initial signs of male pattern baldness. A friend and I joke that this is the true source of his suicide, that he didn't want to match his music to his age, so in order to immortalize his image, he committed suicide. Perhaps something in there is true. In an interview with his mother, she recalls him joking as a teenager that he wanted to join the "27 Club," so maybe Kurt had these grandiose visions early on. If you read the journal, you'll find that he was a really bad speller, too, but he had awesome ideas, and although he didn't spell the words correctly, he did use atypical and sesquipedalian-type words and managed to get his ideas across. That's the point, after all.

I'm not sure if you're willing to go through this much trouble to have a better understanding of the lyrics behind the mind or the mind behind the lyrics, but for me, at the time I had this obsession with Nirvana, I was also obsessed with Nietzsche, Jean-Paul Sartre, Albert Camus, and people like that! People who obviously never had taken psychedelics. It wasn't until I found people like Alan Watts or Terence McKenna that I realized that the other guys had a huge handicap in that they never had any type of "mystical" or "psychedelic" experiences, especially Kurt. Perhaps if he had, maybe he'd still be alive. Who knows? But even in the interview archive below, you'll find that he's been asked a lot of times if he'd taken psychedelics. He gives these accounts of what seems like relatively low doses of LSD. Kurt wasn't into psychedelics, he was into downers like heroin and Quaaludes, and stuff like that because he was so obviously depressed. He even admitted in interviews that he was depressed! Not only that, he had multiple suicide attempts prior to his death. He had an obvious ego that he apparently wanted to preserve, he'd constantly refer to himself as a narcissist, and so I think it's obvious he never had any type of ego-dissolving experience with psychedelics.


Nirvana Interview Archive

Edited by Kafei (11/21/13 11:53 AM)

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Offlinelwheidt
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: Kafei] * 1
    #19168681 - 11/21/13 05:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The early 90's are starting to seem like a long time ago, and its hard to understand what it was like then. Cobain grew up in the 70's and 80's which were not that hip at all.
Cobain was a sensitive guy who was emo in a time when everyone around him was pre post-modernism.
People in the early 90's like Cobain were not optimistic about the future, because older people were so unhip its not funny. People never understood Nirvana then unless they were young.
I remember my dad saying " what is this shit" and demanding I turn it off like it was the devils own music. My dad listened to classic rock, but couldn't handle what Nirvana was saying. 
Then people in the media tried to embrace grunge, right after they hated it. Kurt never felt their love, he felt like they wanted to exploit him because he was cool.
His wife was a bitch and he was addicted to H and suicide happened.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: lwheidt]
    #19168717 - 11/21/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Poor Kurt.  Courtney Love is beyond scary pretty frightening.



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Offlineeve69
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #19168731 - 11/21/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You saying Courtney did it? It's a conspiracy?


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: I don't get Kurt Cobain? [Re: Kafei]
    #19169020 - 11/21/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Poor Kurt.  Courtney Love is beyond scary pretty frightening.





I feel that the video is a little biased.The word choice in it to describe things makes me feel like they are trying to make a story out of nothing
Quote:

Kafei said:
I want to add that reading these interviews definitely does give you insight into some of the lyrics, because you can gain a better sense of where Kurt's coming from. For instance, and this is probably a bad example, but I'll mention it anyway. The song "Heart-Shaped Box" was a song he dedicated to Courtney. But you see, and I couldn't point to the specific interview, but I'll link you to an archive of Nirvana interviews that someone has conveniently collected and organized. Kurt points out that most "love songs" are filled with lyrics that are so general that they could literally be told to anyone. You know, sort of like Justin Bieber songs dedicated to a "girl," but you see, the "girl" in his song is basically a variable in that the lyrics could be sung to any girl and the lyrics would still apply. Basically, the same thing is found in people's Horoscopes where statements so general are made as to be applied to a broad spectrum. Now, with Heart-Shaped Box, on the other hand, Kurt deliberately makes these inside references in the lyrics that only Courtney would understand, and so you see, it's not your stereotypical love song. Dave Grohl even mentions that Kurt had given him a heart-shaped box filled with these little trinkets to give to Courtney.

Kurt's journal is an interesting read, too. I mean, as an aside, something funny to mention that is completely irrelevant is that Kurt was purchasing "Rogaine," because he thought he beginning to see the initial signs of male pattern baldness. A friend and I joke that this is the true source of his suicide, that he didn't want to match his music to his age, so in order to immortalize his image, he committed suicide. Perhaps something in there is true. In an interview with his mother, she recalls him joking as a teenager that he wanted to join the "27 Club," so maybe Kurt had these grandiose visions early on. If you read the journal, you'll find that he was a really bad speller, too, but he had awesome ideas, and although he didn't spell the words correctly, he did use atypical and sesquipedalian-type words and managed to get his ideas across. That's the point, after all.

I'm not sure if you're willing to go through this much trouble to have a better understanding of the lyrics behind the mind or the mind behind the lyrics, but for me, at the time I had this obsession with Nirvana, I was also obsessed with Nietzsche, Jean-Paul Sartre, Albert Camus, and people like that! People who obviously never had taken psychedelics. It wasn't until I found people like Alan Watts or Terence McKenna that I realized that the other guys had a huge handicap in that they never had any type of "mystical" or "psychedelic" experiences, especially Kurt. Perhaps if he had, maybe he'd still be alive. Who knows? But even in the interview archive below, you'll find that he's been asked a lot of times if he'd taken psychedelics. He gives these accounts of what seems like relatively low doses of LSD. Kurt wasn't into psychedelics, he was into downers like heroin and Quaaludes, and stuff like that. He had an obvious ego that he apparently wanted to preserve, he'd constantly refer to himself as a narcissist, and so I think it's obvious he never had any type of ego-dissolving experience with psychedelics.


Nirvana Interview Archive




Aye thanks. That was actually exactly what I was looking for. Someone who grew up in the scene asa teenager and really was into nirvana. I def have a better understanding of what kurt was saying through your post

I also listened to a few interviews

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