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irreligiosity
Stranger
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 7
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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PNW Amanita Pantherina ID
#19163522 - 11/20/13 04:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I live in the greater Seattle area, and while on my way back to my car from class I noticed an amanita growing. I looked around, and noticed lots of them just sitting around the parking lot. So I drove home grabbed a few paperbags, and ended up filling up 3 whole bags.
My buddy is a mycologist at the University of Washington, and I sent him these pictures http://imgur.com/a/cn25L and he was very confident they were Amanita Pantherina. The only one I was slightly not sure about when I picked it was the one in the last two pictures of that album. However my friend said it is likely the warts just fell off - regardless I just tossed that one.
I am a biochemistry student, and have access to a private laboratory, and my school facilities. I had read how much variation there is in muscimol content. So I figured I'd just throw them into hot water for awhile and then evaporate off the water because a resin is easier to deal with. I have a few questions though. While I was looking at ways to extract/refine the muscimol such as A/B extraction I started to doubt the mushrooms I had.
I was initially very confident in what I had, but after reading how many people seem to think they're hard to identify I feel like maybe I'm missing something. They seem distinctly different than the death cap for example - they all have warts on top. They are all ranging from a yellowish to a beige color. I would say the majority transition from a yellow on the outside of the cap to a slight beige to a brown in the middle.
Are the deadly ones really so similar that I need to be concerned that one snuck in among the pantherinas through my ignorance? None have any green hue to them, and none are smooth caps. I probably have about 30lbs of them.
I've soaked about half of those (diced) in warm/hot water for about 4hrs, the filtered them and the filtrate is now in trays in the oven at 170F (with the door open - I can hold my hand to the rack if I want) in order to evaporate the water. I have the other half sitting in garbage bags on racks with magnesium sulfate for a desiccant. But I'll probably just run those through water too since dosing seems to be a huge issue.
Obviously I didn't provide pictures of every one, but input on what you think is welcome. Also is there anyway without chromatography to separate out the muscimol that you're aware of?
Thanks - much appreciated.
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Many of those look like Amanita crenulata to me. But I'm not too familiar with all American Amanitas. They definitely look nothing like real Amanita pantherina I found here in Europe. Post detailed pictures of the stipe, especially the intact bottom, of several specimens here, and I'm sure someone will be able to tell you exactly what they are.
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irreligiosity
Stranger
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 7
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: PNW Amanita Pantherina ID [Re: Tangich]
#19163591 - 11/20/13 04:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
There is enough variation in Amanita pantherina that it is best to give a standard description. The description chosen is that of the San Francisco Bay area mushroom.
The cap is 4-15 cm broad with ground color dark brown or tan, sometimes buff yellow, although often with a darker apical area. The shape of the cap is convex to subglobose, becoming plano-convex to plane, depressed or umbonate in age. The margin of young caps is incurved to decurved becoming uplifted in senescence and is striate to tuberculate-striate. The striations are 6-10 mm long and less evident in age. The surface is viscid to subviscid, usually with flat to pointed, floccose, loosely attached universal veil remnants, which are whitish to buff, sometimes arranged in concentric rings. The cap is often glabrous in age. The flesh is white except for a pale yellow next to the cuticle, firm, 3-14 mm thick; odor and taste mild. The gills are bluntly attached, usually adnexed but becoming deeply notched to free. The gills are close to subdistant, white becoming buff; margin fimbriate then smooth. The stipe is 5-15 cm long, 8-20 mm broad at the apex, equal to tapering or clavate, bulbous at base. The stipe surface is moist to subviscid, pruinose to appressed fibrillose and longitudinally striate above the superior skirt-like ring, which collapses in age. The color of the stipe is white to buff, staining buff or brown when bruised. The volva is white, consisting of one to several rows of irregular tissue, which is inrolled at the bulb apex forming a ± distinct collar, occasionally disappearing with age. The identification depends primarily on the distinctive arrangement of the universal veil remnants on the cap along with the inrolled volva. The mushroom is commonly found under Monterey pine in the San Francisco Bay area.
Amanita pantherina var. pantherinoides (Murrill) Dav.T.Jenkins, having either a free-limbed short portion of the volva or an abrupt collar, occurs at least in Oregon and Washington. This variety is usually brown at the apex, but the rest of the cap is a warm pale tan or honey yellow.
A form of Amanita pantherina in which the young buttons are white is found in Colorado, but apparently has not been studied extensively. (91)
Both Amanita muscaria and Amanita pantherina occasionally have specimens low in ibotenic acid/muscimol. (96) Dr. Joe Ammirati notes that one or another variety of Amanita pantherina may be found in every month of the year.
Isoxazole poisonings have been occasionally reported with what were thought to be Amanitas intermediate in character between Amanita gemmata and Amanita pantherina. However, Amanita gemmata may be a complex of closely related species, ±yellow or yellow tan, whose volvas are not always the typical membranous sheath. The intermediate forms have also been thought to be “hybrids” in Northern California and in the PNW
http://www.mykoweb.com/TFWNA/P-26.html
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irreligiosity
Stranger
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 7
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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I found a website that only contains PNW amanitas.. I see now why they look similar.
The Amanita gemmata, Amanita aprica, and the Amanita pantherina all seem possible according to this website http://www.svims.ca/council/Amanit.htm , and they all look pretty much the same..
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MarcusFreeman


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 376
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Here is a A. ameripanthrina that I found in the south east.
And here is a A. gemmata(allegedly).
-------------------- "The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug." MJK As one ends, another begins.
Edited by MarcusFreeman (11/20/13 07:59 AM)
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irreligiosity
Stranger
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 7
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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I took some better close up pictures and put them in this album. Hopefully you can identify them with this. http://imgur.com/a/Kwmm5
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 9 hours, 44 minutes
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The new pictures show Amanita muscaria with the red cap, and Amanita gemmata sensu auct. amer. with the yellow cap and frosty universal veil remnants.
Both species work for drug use, however the red ones have a longer history of use and could therefore be safer.
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MarcusFreeman


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 376
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Op, have you consumed muscimol before?
-------------------- "The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug." MJK As one ends, another begins.
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irreligiosity
Stranger
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 7
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Thank you for the identification - much appreciated.
No I have not consumed muscimol before, but I don't take doing new drugs lightly. I usually learn about drugs to the point that I could tell you their pharmacokinetics off memory. Outside of mescaline I've done the vast majority of hallucinogens - though I know this is supposed to be more of a dissociative/sedative kind of high than what I'm used to. I'm actually much more partial to synthetic hallucinogens like LSD then I am to mushrooms. The best trip I ever had was on mushrooms, but I've never thrown up on LSD or felt nauseous for an hour hoping the nausea will stop. Only recently did I take cubensis (after a 3 year break from mushrooms)that my stomach didn't bug me at all so I figured I'd play around with them again.
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MarcusFreeman


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 376
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Keep up the research! There are a few folks on here that dabble with muscimol. I eat it once or twice a month if I am in the mood. I've never eaten a lot- 3 caps was my maximum. I'm usually a few beers in when I decide to eat it.
For me, it can go two ways. I feel drunk(er) and tired. Or drunk(er) and restless/energetic.
I don't think I've ever had any of the mind blowing stuff that I've read about. I had one really weird night(The three cap night) but other than that it is relatively mild and pleasurable- if you like being drunk(er) 
O yeah, I've never consumed pantherina or gemmata. Only Amanita muscaria var persicina
-------------------- "The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug." MJK As one ends, another begins.
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irreligiosity
Stranger
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 7
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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I've been smoking a dried skin from a gemmata once he clarified what it was. I definitely feel something, but the only thing I would associate it with is being stoned. But I'm turning all of the mushrooms I found except the musciara into resin. Hopefully I'll get a decent amount of resin from 30lbs of mushrooms.
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