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InvisiblePocketLady
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Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19195120 - 11/27/13 05:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chuckfinely said:
Anyone have any suggestions for reading material? Maybe something halfway well known cause I dont really want to bother with shipping or anything, just to look it up on my kindle.




Quote:

Chuckfinely said:
I just dont really need one of the those books that tells me how to act or anything. I always seem to get to a part of a book where they tell me to be good or humble or charitable or something. I already know to not be a dick :tongue:





Check out Cosmic Trigger by Robert Anton Wilson, one of the best and most thought-provoking books I have ever read.  It will certainly not tell you what to do, and in fact the message of the book is the complete opposite. 

I've searched long and hard for my spiritual path these past few years, and the thing that has trapped me on occasion is belief.  As soon as you start to believe something, you close yourself off to anything that opposes that idea.  I think that you can only find your genuine path if you can keep an open mind and consider all possibilities.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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OfflineMotherNaturesSon
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19195240 - 11/27/13 06:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Let me tell you that I feel you bro. I can relate to what you wrote on so many different levels :thumbup: now for you main question:

Quote:

Chuckfinely said:
Is there any path out there that wont end up telling me I need to submit to god's will, or give me conditions to enter a heaven? I don't need the promise of heaven in order to do good or not be a dick. It would be really nice to find something to believe in where I wont feel like I need to make sure Im doing everything right.

I find some comfort in meditation. Maybe even half way subscribe to the whole kundalini evergy thing. I just hate everything always coming back to having to be submissive to this higher power.




Yes. If you are looking for some spiritual path "out there", there's one that lacks the particular aspect you find to be counterproductive. Although not 100% void of it, this form of spirituality does give some conditions that they believe will enhance your connection and therefore focus on the spiritual connectivity, but they don't say that not fulfilling them will earn you punishment of sorts. This spirituality is known as "Daoism" and it is the most sublime form of organised spirituality alongside the other good ones (such as buddhism and its many forms). If I'm not mistaking, Daoism did evolve from buddhism, but it took it a step further. Look into it. It's deep. Like, really deep! In fact, daoism and it's concept of the Dao (the way) and Flow is what brought me into the next thing i will introduce to you:

In the story of the most famous experience of enlightenment (yes, buddhas story) there was a moment in the story, where buddha, having absorbed all forms of spiritual (and anti-spiritual) understandings out there in the world, relinquished all of them and he decided to go with his inner voice, his own experience and belief. Only to experience enlightenment there soon after. Look at my signature. So much changes after you become genuine about yourself and your beliefs. Lets face it, its all very romantic to believe in gods like shiva and shamanic spirits and so on, the vibe that surrounds them might be of sentimental value to you, but be honest with yourself- do you really have the capacity to believe in these things wholeheartedly? For me, the answer was no. So like buddha, i kept the knowledge and sentiment for these things, I cherry picked the spiritual techniques (such as meditation in its many forms) that seemed to resonate with my spiritual being and just went into spirituality without any specific belief or preconception of what my experience should be. Then things began to get very interesting. So heed the story of buddha and think about the experience I've shared.

Just dig into yourself genuinely and you will get it. The feeling you have when youre tripping was a big hint for me personally. When you see all those spiritual matters such as shiva, god, spirits and so on and so forth for what they are- words with attained meaning. Words are the clothes of your mind, but you are not your clothes. These clothes merely express and make sense, but the real thing is underneath and its yours and yours alone. When you're tripping, you're sort of naked and there's a distinct feeling of "getting it" without the need for explanations or concepts. That's because you don't need them- it's all just there. Once you realise this, what you have left is actual, genuine experience and a process of self-cleansing and attaining sublimity begins to unfold in a cascade of personally tailored experiences that are part of your flow.

Hope this helped :smile:
good luck!


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."


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Offlineeve69
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19195271 - 11/27/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I love Daoism! OMG!!! But it and Buddhism have separate origins.  I love in the Buddha story where Maya demands by what right Buddha proclaims his liberation and he touched the Earth.

But don't discount Shiva. He's stood the test of time as deity for those seeking liberation. Myself I prefer the feminine deities like the Creatrix Saraswati, goddess of music and intelligence. Saraswati is The Word. So like at the beginning if the God was with The Word he was with his Shakti-Consort.

...story for another time... perhaps....


--------------------
...or something







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OfflineMotherNaturesSon
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: eve69]
    #19195280 - 11/27/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Then I stand corrected.

:tipofthecap:

Still, Daoism, in my own humble opinion, is the most sublime form of organised spirituality.

Yes, that part of the story is immensely powerful as well. All in all, the last bit of buddhas story really reveals a key to attaining whatever it is we are trying to ( :smile: )

I am not discounting Shiva or any hindu god, on the contrary. Shiva hold immense sentimental meaning to me. I just think it's okay to strive to go beyond names and concepts of said gods and such. For some people at least :thumbup:


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."


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Offlineeve69
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19195303 - 11/27/13 07:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, well look into tibetan buddhist trekchod togel for another way of seeing buddha and all deities the hundred peaceful and wrathful deities - one might question why use deities in buddhism, but the reason is that tantra can take the essence of ten thousand teachings and distill it and make it practicable. but for any study of teachings which takes much time the path becomes the teaching, or one develops a relationship with the path, if you consider having feet on deity of the path then that is a relationship as well as a practice, what qualities should be developed during shanti krama tantra?


--------------------
...or something







Edited by eve69 (11/27/13 07:40 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: PocketLady]
    #19195499 - 11/27/13 09:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
Quote:

Chuckfinely said:
Anyone have any suggestions for reading material? Maybe something halfway well known cause I dont really want to bother with shipping or anything, just to look it up on my kindle.




Quote:

Chuckfinely said:
I just dont really need one of the those books that tells me how to act or anything. I always seem to get to a part of a book where they tell me to be good or humble or charitable or something. I already know to not be a dick :tongue:





Check out Cosmic Trigger by Robert Anton Wilson, one of the best and most thought-provoking books I have ever read.  It will certainly not tell you what to do, and in fact the message of the book is the complete opposite. 

I've searched long and hard for my spiritual path these past few years, and the thing that has trapped me on occasion is belief.  As soon as you start to believe something, you close yourself off to anything that opposes that idea.  I think that you can only find your genuine path if you can keep an open mind and consider all possibilities.





One of my absolute favorite reads. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMahananda


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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19197132 - 11/27/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Apropos of the Daoism discussion, one of my favorite dialogues from Chuang Tzu:

Master Tung‑kuo asked Chuang Tzu, "This thing called the Way ‑ where does it exist?"

Chuang Tzu said, "There's no place it doesn't exist."

"Come," said Master Tung‑kuo, "you must be more specific!"

"It is in the ant."

"As low a thing as that?"

"It is in the panic grass."

"But that's lower still!"

"It is in the tiles and shards."

"How can it be so low?"

"It is in the piss and shit!"

Master Tung‑kuo made no reply.


--------------------
Come, come, whoever you are.
Wanderer, worshiper, lover of living, it doesn't matter
Ours is not a caravan of despair.
Come even if you have broken your vow a thousand times,
Come, yet again, come, come


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Offlineeve69
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Mahananda]
    #19197274 - 11/27/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

when Dao
good shit
when not Dao
bad shit

Got this little blues number here called, and I think you know it
The Dao Jones

been so long since i been home
got caught in a sinkhole
in Florida
southeast of Jupiter

my little wimmens
packed up all my things
smoked my herb and
drank my blood

caught me playing I Ching
thought I having a fling
with a chick named Irene
I got me the Dao Joes blues.


--------------------
...or something







Edited by eve69 (11/27/13 04:44 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #19198494 - 11/27/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, well, synchronicity CAN be negative to the egoic-pole. I've had "instant karma" happen. Your's was just a startle I guess.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19198594 - 11/27/13 10:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The problem with religion as taught to kids is just that: God is always right, which suggests that we are always wrong. Moreover, the Theistic God is taught to kids like the fucking eye of Sauron, who sees everything we think, feel, desire, and do - not because God is the Mind from which we arise like little ripples on an Ocean, but more like an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent tyrannical king on a throne in the heavens. Those early childhood descriptions have never helped anyone develop into Christ-like human beings as far as I can tell.

Doing "God's will," is not a program like knocking on stranger's doors with a Bible in hand as I understand it. One does not need to model oneself after evangelists as described by the New Testament's public relations literature, the gospels. One doesn't need to define oneself as a Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. in order to become more fully human. One only needs to choose to Awaken from socio-cultural programming, some of which does come from religion. One also needs to rise above one's strictly mammalian tendencies and 'submit' to the inner gyroscope of Compassion to guide those biological-cultural-social determinants of behavior. So, as H.H. The Dalai Lama says, "Kindness is my religion," and I do my best, although it's difficult to capture a big Palmetto Bug before my wife grabs a can of Raid®. I am not fanatic about insects of course, but I will rescue a rat from drowning in our pool, catch and release lizards from the house, and try to remain civil with the multitudes of self-centered, uncourteous, obnoxious low to no-class people who populate Miami, Florida. No more flipping the bird, cursing assholes on the road, etc. I need to chill out, continually, not strive to walk on water. I'm long past wanting to be a spiritual superman. I do chop wood, but I don't need to carry water. The grass, hedges, palm trees, bushes, and pool keep me doing many banal things, yet behind it there is always Awakening.

Fortunately, I've had several 'ring-like-a-bell-in-the-head telepathy' experiences (Gertrude Schmeidler's expression), and I know it has freaked out the two people whose thoughts I repeated to them. Coincidentally, one of them, a college roommate I haven't seen since 1976 from Bogota, Colombia, just e-mailed me and said he'd be 4 miles from my house this weekend! I'm gonna ask him if he remembers the event if I see him, but let me tell you that neither he nor another old friend regarded me as Godly, but rather with complete horror! Psychic siddhis, are not evidence of holiness in and of themselves. I am a lot further along in time and hopefully in development now than I was in the 1970s, and I haven't experienced classic telepathy since about 1980. Ultimate Reality is pure Mystery. I have had tastes, inklings, synchronicities galore. One cannot draw conclusions about what happens to you after death if one truly isn't certain about what one actually is here and now. But a life of indulgence in physical senses, or useless competition, or the hoarding of money, the status game, and generally, all the Low Games that Robert S. de Ropp  wrote about in The Master Game is not what I want to be about.  http://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/spiritual_members/master_game.htm


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/28/13 02:50 PM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19198843 - 11/27/13 11:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)






In the story of the most famous experience of enlightenment (yes, buddhas story) there was a moment in the story, where buddha, having absorbed all forms of spiritual (and anti-spiritual) understandings out there in the world, relinquished all of them and he decided to go with his inner voice, his own experience and belief. Only to experience enlightenment there soon after. Look at my signature. So much changes after you become genuine about yourself and your beliefs. Lets face it, its all very romantic to believe in gods like shiva and shamanic spirits and so on, the vibe that surrounds them might be of sentimental value to you, but be honest with yourself- do you really have the capacity to believe in these things wholeheartedly? For me, the answer was no. So like buddha, i kept the knowledge and sentiment for these things, I cherry picked the spiritual techniques (such as meditation in its many forms) that seemed to resonate with my spiritual being and just went into spirituality without any specific belief or preconception of what my experience should be. Then things began to get very interesting. So heed the story of buddha and think about the experience I've shared.

Just dig into yourself genuinely and you will get it. The feeling you have when youre tripping was a big hint for me personally. When you see all those spiritual matters such as shiva, god, spirits and so on and so forth for what they are- words with attained meaning. Words are the clothes of your mind, but you are not your clothes. These clothes merely express and make sense, but the real thing is underneath and its yours and yours alone. When you're tripping, you're sort of naked and there's a distinct feeling of "getting it" without the need for explanations or concepts. That's because you don't need them- it's all just there. Once you realise this, what you have left is actual, genuine experience and a process of self-cleansing and attaining sublimity begins to unfold in a cascade of personally tailored experiences that are part of your flow.

Hope this helped :smile:
good luck!





Yes, you eventually must learn to trust your inner self. Religious rules and rituals and worshiping gods are just aids to help one develop a state of mind conductive to listening. For example, in Christianity there is the concept of waiting for the Lord. Instead of occupying your mind with thoughts and desires, you just let things be and this is when insight happens, this is when God shows up.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #19199088 - 11/28/13 01:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
One only needs to choose to Awaken from socio-cultural programming, some of which does come from religion. One also needs to rise above one's strictly mammalian tendencies and 'submit' to the inner gyroscope of Compassion to guide those biological-cultural-social determinants of behavior.





:cheers:  Nothing feels shittier than an asshole.


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OfflineChuckfinely
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Registered: 06/27/13
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19199952 - 11/28/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
The problem with religion as taught to kids is just that: God is always right, which suggests that we are always wrong. Moreover, the Theistic God is taught to kids like the fucking eye of Sauron, who sees everything we think, feel, desire, and do - not because God is the Mind from which we arise like little ripples on an Ocean, but more like an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent tyrannical king on a throne in the heavens. Those early childhood descriptions have never helped anyone develop into Christ-like human beings as far as I can tell.

Doing "God's will," is not a program like knocking on stranger's doors with a Bible in hand as I understand it. One does not need to model oneself after evangelists as described by the New Testament's public relations literature, the gospels. One doesn't need to define oneself as a Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. in order to become more fully human. One only needs to choose to Awaken from socio-cultural programming, some of which does come from religion. One also needs to rise above one's strictly mammalian tendencies and 'submit' to the inner gyroscope of Compassion to guide those biological-cultural-social determinants of behavior. So, as H.H. The Dalai Lama says, "Kindness is my religion," and I do my best, although it's difficult to capture a big Palmetto Bug before my wife grabs a can of Raid®. I am not fanatic about insects of course, but I will rescue a rat from drowning in our pool, catch and release lizards from the house, and try to remain civil with the multitudes of self-centered, uncourteous, obnoxious low to no-class people who populate Miami, Florida. No more flipping the bird, cursing assholes on the road, etc. I need to chill out, continually, not strive to walk on water. I'm long past wanting to be a spiritual superman. I do chop wood, but I don't need to carry water. The grass, hedges, palm trees, bushes, and pool keep me doing many banal things, yet behind it there is always Awakening.

Fortunately, I've had several 'ring-like-a-bell-in-the-head telepathy' experiences (Gertrude Schmeidler's expression), and I know it has freaked out the two people whose thoughts I repeated to them. Coincidentally, one of them, a college roommate I haven't seen since 1976 from Bogota, Colombia, just e-mailed me and said he'd be 4 miles from my house this weekend! I'm gonna ask him if he remembers the event if I see him, but let me tell you that neither he nor another old friend regarded me as Godly, but rather with complete horror! Psychic siddhis, are not evidence of holiness in and of themselves. I am a lot further along in time and hopefully in development now than I was in the 1970s, and I haven't experienced classic telepathy since about 1980. Ultimate Reality is pure Mystery. I have had tastes, inklings, synchronicities galore. One cannot draw conclusions about what happens to you after death if one truly isn't certain about what one actually is here and now. But a life of indulgence in physical senses, or useless competition, or the hoarding of money, the status game, and generally, all the Low Games that Robert S. de Ropp  wrote about in The Master Game is not what I want to be about.  http://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/spiritual_members/master_game.htm





Well said man :thumbup:

I think the whole telling me my thoughts thing is really just a romanticized idea in my head about the super natural, with the story that Ram Das told just having the biggest impact.
I've never experienced anything really spiritual or super natural, and I can admit my longing for such an occurrence is probably unhealthy and could lead me down any multitude of incorrect paths, as well as creating far fetched expectations of what the spiritual world can give me.



I've done enough stretches and what not now that I was finally able to get into the lotus posture last night while meditating. Im very not-bendy :lol:. That was probably the quickest half hour of meditation Ive ever been through. Gets easier and easier every day.
Would be cool to find an extremely beginner yoga/meditation group around me, but detroit isnt the best place to find anything like that lol


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19200910 - 11/28/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

OP, this will require little effort on your part, yet likely bring good vibes and insights:

- Eckhart Tolle (just search his lectures on youtube)
- Alan Watts (different approach, same topic, great man awesome talks)

This may require more effort, but any effort expended will surely bring amazing rewards:
- Show up for a Santo Daime ceremony or a Peyote sweat lodge. I think your mother was partly right. The "being in a group" share experience is one thing, the "believing in Jesus" or Santa or fireballs for that matter, is quite another. Show up to Baptist church, spend an hour there with everybody singing happily around you, then see how you feel. When they say jesus, lord and all that, just assume they talk about psychedelics. For best results, actually take a small dose of shrooms before going there :lol:

- Start or join a drum circle. 1-2 hours in you'll feel some very fly stuff happening.

Generally the "belief" is one thing, it can be done more or less from an armchair or a couch, the same armchair or couch that has you feel your life is empty and meaningless.

The EXPERIENCE of unity, something more than just material happening, that's a different matter. That can be reached by awareness like Eckhart Tolle and Alan Watts recommend, and also (IMO more easily) via psychedelics, and/or as a member of larger groups that actively work at having such an experience. Just find some groups like that and try them out, see which ones you like. My fave is combining these two, tripping on something good, with others, in a "sacred space" kind of context.

Don't let the weird shit some groups may believe, distract you from the practice. You're there for the practice (or the psychoactive sacraments), not the retarded supersitions. Like when banging a Catholic girl, you're there for the :boobs: not for Jesus :lol:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19201125 - 11/28/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sleepwalker said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
One only needs to choose to Awaken from socio-cultural programming, some of which does come from religion. One also needs to rise above one's strictly mammalian tendencies and 'submit' to the inner gyroscope of Compassion to guide those biological-cultural-social determinants of behavior.





:cheers:  Nothing feels shittier than an asshole.




We all HAVE an asshole, but we do not have to identify with the survival-based motive that is associated with that plexus. We get scared by a brush with death, (Thanatos), and we shit our pants. Muladhara stimulation-fear-excretion-death (of our plant and animal food), decay, stench (affecting our primitive reptilian smell-brain), elongated turds reminiscent of snakes, fear of snakes, Kundalini reference, poisonous snakes (cycling back to death), snake with tail-in-mouth (Ouroboros) as symbol of Eternity, (into which venomous snake will send us like the Little Prince), etc., etc.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19201155 - 11/28/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks. Consider the Siddha Pose (half-lotus), especially in the morning. After a day of moving around, the Full Lotus might be a bit easier. Try a cushion to raise your spine, or conversely, a ball of fabric user your ankles. Some Hatha Yoga asanas to stretch ligaments and tendons can also make sitting in these asanas less painful, especially at the outset.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19202051 - 11/28/13 06:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I've never experienced anything really spiritual or super natural, and I can admit my longing for such an occurrence is probably unhealthy and could lead me down any multitude of incorrect paths, as well as creating far fetched expectations of what the spiritual world can give me.





Everyone starts out with far fetched expectations of what the spiritual path is going to be like and then reality confronts and destroys them.

The longing for the super natural is anything but unhealthy, on the contrary if you direct it toward a search for enlightenment, it is the most healthy thing you can be feeling. You must long for enlightenment, or else you will never bother to dismantle all the programming and heal the trauma you have picked up throughout your life. But enlightenment itself is not super natural. Its just what is natural. Its the unenlightened state that is unnatural, which makes it seem as if enlightenment is super natural.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Spacerific]
    #19202615 - 11/28/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

. Show up to Baptist church, spend an hour there with everybody singing happily around you, then see how you feel. When they say jesus, lord and all that, just assume they talk about psychedelics. For best results, actually take a small dose of shrooms before going there :lol:




I'm all about going to church on shrooms but I must say, you do not want to be replacing Jesus with psychedelics. If you worship a plant or a chemical, you are committing what the Bible calls "idolatry" and you are putting yourself lower down than Biblical literalists. We must seek what is Eternal, not what is transitory. What is transitory will always pass away and thus is not worth seeking. Psychedelics and the experience they produce are transitory. That's not to say they aren't valuable, they can be extremely valuable in the sense that they point one in the direction of eternal things. But at some point one must begin seeking those eternal things rather than being satisfied with a temporary glimpse of them. Worshipping psychedelics is like someone who goes to church and worships God for an hour on sunday but then never thinks of Him during the rest the week.

Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, and the Lord, I AM, or "He Who Is" are meant to represent to us, that which is eternal. Thats why the Bible describes Jesus as being the firstborn, before all creation and God as having no beginning and no end. This is what you want to be worshiping, so why would you want to replace the eternal with something transient like psychedelics? We are supposed to go from psychedelics to God, not from God to psychedelics.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Deviate]
    #19203430 - 11/29/13 02:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds to me like you are replacing one pointing finger with another. 
Might as well say the only true path to touching the eternal is my middle finger flying high in the sky.


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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Deviate]
    #19203486 - 11/29/13 03:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

. Show up to Baptist church, spend an hour there with everybody singing happily around you, then see how you feel. When they say jesus, lord and all that, just assume they talk about psychedelics. For best results, actually take a small dose of shrooms before going there :lol:




I'm all about going to church on shrooms but I must say, you do not want to be replacing Jesus with psychedelics. If you worship a plant or a chemical, you are committing what the Bible calls "idolatry" and you are putting yourself lower down than Biblical literalists. We must seek what is Eternal, not what is transitory. What is transitory will always pass away and thus is not worth seeking. Psychedelics and the experience they produce are transitory. That's not to say they aren't valuable, they can be extremely valuable in the sense that they point one in the direction of eternal things. But at some point one must begin seeking those eternal things rather than being satisfied with a temporary glimpse of them. Worshipping psychedelics is like someone who goes to church and worships God for an hour on sunday but then never thinks of Him during the rest the week.

Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, and the Lord, I AM, or "He Who Is" are meant to represent to us, that which is eternal. Thats why the Bible describes Jesus as being the firstborn, before all creation and God as having no beginning and no end. This is what you want to be worshiping, so why would you want to replace the eternal with something transient like psychedelics? We are supposed to go from psychedelics to God, not from God to psychedelics.



I don't worship psychedelics, and in fact to keep a healthy mindset I don't worship anything. If anything I celebrate.

The psychedelics, just like the ceremony, church, robes and people, like the whole wide blue planet in fact, are just tools that allow us to feel a certain kind of inner experience. They are a door to walk through and explore beyond, and a very effective, quality door at that.

Jesus? :rofl:

The whole point of taking shrooms, going to any kind of ceremony or group event, is IMO to feel that ineffable something, that you can't "get" from a text, because it's a non-text, non-word experience. It's a meat and emotions and molecules thing, like an orgasm. Immediate.

The combination of music and proper molecules will help reset the system (body and mind) back to natural rhythms, firing in harmony on all cylinders. The experience comes with music and molecules to tune how we work, in real life, day to day.

What you call Jesus on the other hand, seems to me those are words. Abstractions, and not immediately felt at all. I do support the replacing of theoretical abstractions, with real genuine actions, experiences, molecules, rituals like spending a few hours soaking up the music, becoming one with the group and indeed the universe.

IMO psychedelics are like making love to an actual woman, whereas the texts, the Bible, Qur'an and other similar texts are more like a printed copy of Hustler. Same topic, VERY different experience. One is immediate and needs little explanations, the other is quite removed, and not at all interactive.

I have a rather poor opinion of the Bible, and the Qur'an and Torah for that matter, because their idea of a good time seems to be quite retarded. Instead of take 5 grams and sing with your fellow humans feeling the awesome in yourself and in them, it's show up sit your ass down and listen to some dude mumble from this book. Or show up at Mecca, spin around a rock. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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