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Offlineeve69
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Stromrider]
    #19186235 - 11/25/13 10:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

half of the question of why is over when you're too tired to care anymore.


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...or something







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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: lessismore]
    #19186445 - 11/25/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

When you are living in The Way, which is what the original Christians called "being in Christ" before the term 'Christian' was used, or living in The Way, which is called 'Tao,' as the Chinese Taoists called it, it's the SAME WAY. When you are living The Way, your actions naturally flow in such a way as to be compassionate and ethical. You, like virtually every Sunday-school teacher-type I've ever met in the last 60 years has the whole thing ass-backwards. Behaving like a Boy Scout or Girl Scout doesn't 'make' you good. When you're good, you naturally behave like a scout. One cannot 'earn' holiness like a badge in scouting, holiness (wholeness) constellates around you when you are inwardly aligned with your true nature. Outer behaviors flow from inner peace. Inner peace is a matter of 'grace' in Christianity, not effort. It IS necessary to 'clean house' to a certain extent in order to simplify one's mind to better receive the subtle promptings of grace. "And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice." - 1 Kings 19:11-12

Of course there is work to be done. In India it is called Sadhana. Surrender or submission of your ego to a Higher Power IS what transcendence of the ego entails. Not every path enjoins transcendence. Some paths revel in purely natural functions, cycles of birth, death, rebirth (The Myth of the Eternal Return). Typically there is a greater acceptance of violence (all animals fight when sufficiently provoked) in these paths, and little attempt to transcend (i.e., rise above) one's mammalian proclivities. One's way in life is not governed by The Way, as a true Christian, Taoist, Jain, or Buddhist might conduct themselves, working hard to practice Ahimsa (non-violence) and Satyagraha (truthfulness). Not to surrender your mammalian, egoic tendencies, based on the motives of the lower three chakras, says that you do not seek a transcendental path. In that case you will be misnaming the word spiritual, and merely attributing it to its lowest common denominator. The 'soul' in Judaism has 3 or 4 levels, with the Nephesh being the 'animal soul,' common to all animals. Embodying the Ruach and the Neshamah levels means that your path upon the earth will be qualitatively different.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OnlineStromriderM
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19187428 - 11/25/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's all well and good but what we seek is truth. Well I guess I should say personal truth because it would seem different people come to different truths.  You know what I mean


Edited by Stromrider (11/25/13 04:38 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Stromrider]
    #19187854 - 11/25/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I am a Perennialist, and I think that there is a singular Transpersonal truth (read, Reality) that only takes on personal attributes, cultural colors, and mythological variations as it is apprehended by the denser 'souls' (psyches).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineChuckfinely
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Registered: 06/27/13
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19188492 - 11/25/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I just cant picture an all powerful, god-like being still having petty human emotions enough to require us to submit to its will. If god requires submission to him then that would mean he has an ego, which would make him not a god. How could a god, a supposedly perfect being, have a sense of self?


There just isnt anything in this world that can be explained well enough for me to believe it. If there is a god where did it come from? If there is a higher consciousness in, lets say, another dimension or higher plane, then where did that higher plane come from?

No matter how deep you think you can explain anything, science or religion, there comes a point where you cant explain any further.

It seems as though I'm doomed to a life of anxiety and befuddlement, at least until I do enough drugs and my brain is fried into believing. Half way there!:thumbup:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19188937 - 11/25/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If there is a god where did it come from? If there is a higher consciousness in, lets say, another dimension or higher plane, then where did that higher plane come from?


Not to sound arrogant, but if you haven't gotten past questions that rely on simple causality like these, you are neither sufficiently open or prepared to deal with the necessary psychological preparations for an experience sub specie aeternitatis.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineChuckfinely
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19189087 - 11/25/13 09:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So until I abandon inquiry and submit to another being's will, no questions asked, Im not open enough? Curiosity and closed mindedness are not one in the same in my mind.
Such questions generate the introspection needed to rise above the blind faith rabble and find out for yourself the ultimate truth that most of us are seeking. If you just accepted what you were told off the bat, you would never advance further than the first belief system preached to you.

Sounds like nearly every mainstream faith to me. Do people get off on being submissive or something?

I've typed and deleted 4 paragraphs trying to respond, if I think of how to word my response I'll post it later.


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OnlineStromriderM
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19189277 - 11/25/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You don't have to explain your position further as far as I'm concerned. I get it and I'm right there with you... Unfortunately :lol:


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OnlineStromriderM
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Stromrider]
    #19189286 - 11/25/13 09:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)




In the mean time I'll be worshipping mother earth like any good pagan.

Hey at least it's something tangible :shrug:


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OfflineChuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Stromrider]
    #19189534 - 11/25/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:



In the mean time I'll be worshipping mother earth like any good pagan.

Hey at least it's something tangible :shrug:





I dream of the days when I can go camping and meditate in the middle of no where again. Will probably be a year or so before i clear up my legal shit though :thumbdown:


Edited by Chuckfinely (11/25/13 10:46 PM)


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Stromrider]
    #19190532 - 11/26/13 05:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:



In the mean time I'll be worshipping mother earth like any good pagan.

Hey at least it's something tangible :shrug:





Watching the natural world give birth to and devour itself in a giant never-ending blood orgy is where my faith lies, if anywhere. 
Makes me wanna fall right back into the vortex and get some sleep, sometimes.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19191015 - 11/26/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chuckfinely said:
So until I abandon inquiry and submit to another being's will, no questions asked, Im not open enough? Curiosity and closed mindedness are not one in the same in my mind.
Such questions generate the introspection needed to rise above the blind faith rabble and find out for yourself the ultimate truth that most of us are seeking. If you just accepted what you were told off the bat, you would never advance further than the first belief system preached to you.

Sounds like nearly every mainstream faith to me. Do people get off on being submissive or something?

I've typed and deleted 4 paragraphs trying to respond, if I think of how to word my response I'll post it later.




Thinking things out for yourself is a rare commodity. And yes people do get off on being submissive. They then are not responsible for critical thought and the burden that carries.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19192630 - 11/26/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chuckfinely said:
So until I abandon inquiry and submit to another being's will, no questions asked, Im not open enough? Curiosity and closed mindedness are not one in the same in my mind.
Such questions generate the introspection needed to rise above the blind faith rabble and find out for yourself the ultimate truth that most of us are seeking. If you just accepted what you were told off the bat, you would never advance further than the first belief system preached to you.

Sounds like nearly every mainstream faith to me. Do people get off on being submissive or something?

I've typed and deleted 4 paragraphs trying to respond, if I think of how to word my response I'll post it later.




I think he is right, when your path begins you start to have faith in what you see/experience, and you no longer need to search for answers

the answers are coming if/when you are ready, so this thread can only guide you very briefly

if you are still in inquiry about "how everything works" you are not ready yet, but maybe getting there

I believe in transpersonal truths/experiences too, a truth that underlies most religions and states of consciousness

turning off thoughts helps

for me I submit to that I dont need to know it all, accept what I see, appreciate what I have and do what I love most of the time


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OfflineChuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

Registered: 06/27/13
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: lessismore]
    #19192853 - 11/26/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I do have faith in what I see/experience. That is precisely my point. I have not seen nor experienced any god, so I don't have faith in it. That isn't saying I cant have faith in it, I just have to find it. I have seen and experienced, through lsd and mushrooms, a spiritual side of reality. Hence me even considering anything spiritual.

You have to open your mind and search before you find any answers. We see what happens when you don't ask any questions, you become part of the mindless mainstream religion and materialism.

If we abandon inquiry, then we would also abandon the search. For there is no reason to search when you have no questions for which you are trying to find answers.

I dont think you'll get very many answers if you dont ask any questions, just expecting to receive or be told what is right


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OnlineStromriderM
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19192968 - 11/26/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Chuck did you ever question your spirituality before using psychedelics? Just curious


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #19193086 - 11/26/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So until I abandon inquiry and submit to another being's will, no questions asked, Im not open enough?

You don't pay attention. You are reacting to your own words, not mine. I, for one, never speak of God as "another being." That is you asking, and then answering, with your own thoughts. God is not defined as "another being," but as "the Ground of Being" by reputable theologians like Paul Tillich. Fucktard-fundamentalist preachers still yap loudly about God as king, judge, etc., sitting on HIS throne AS IF they were describing Zeus, Jupiter, YHWH, or Odin from their respective mythologies. This is radical Theism taken mythologically rather than theologically. There are far more sophisticated theologies available: Panentheism, Process Theology, the Homologization of the Cosmos of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, etc.

Sounds like nearly every mainstream faith to me. Do people get off on being submissive or something?

Just because it's mainstream doesn't mean its ALL wrong. Islam does mean 'submission' btw, and yes, the ego needs to submit itself to a Higher Center, called the Self in Jungian psychology, but called many things in various religions. The ego is like a city on an island. The island is human consciousness, the island is human consciousness, the city is the capital or center of consciousness. The island sits on a 'planet,' which is the whole psyche. The center of this symbolic planet, as well as the entire planet, constitutes the Self. According to the Jungian model, the task is to acknowledge an "ego-Self axis" that connects the two centers, drawing sustenance from the Self into the ego. In Christian imagery, Jesus represents the ego, God represents the Self. The relationship that Jesus has with God is the "ego-Self axis," in which the ego of Jesus works in consonance, in harmony with God, to such an extent that he is seen as the action of God on Earth.

Crucifixion (like every other mythic dismemberment: Ixion on the wheel, Prometheus on the rock, Osiris dismembered, etc.) is about an ego death that results in a new (Resurrected/Ascended) condition of Being to emerge in its place. Now, in Christianity as in other historical religions, these inner processes are depicted as historical events. Alchemy, an esoteric path, depicts these inner processes as laboratory functions (Solution, Coagulation, Calcinatio, Distillation, and others are processes of death, resurrection and purification that occur concurrently in crucible, or retort as well as in corresponding inner chakras, which correspond to outer planets. Every system, religious and/or occult that aims at transcendence demands that a whole new Center of Identity emerge from the practitioner. The ego belongs to the body-mind in Qabalah which must die, so that Ruach, Spirit can ascend and manifest as the Higher Self and more Real Identity.

You sound like you want to equate the ego with the Self, which means that you utterly fail to get the basic point of any credible religious form. I recommend you learn to quiet your clamorous ego so that you can begin to see how the Self, or Spirit, or God is the True Center of creation and organization of Reality. Your ego seems to be in the way of The Way. It's the basic and most common problem. Take the advice of Psalm 46:10, "Be still, and know that I am God..."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19193522 - 11/26/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

this is too funny so I thought I should post.

Markos...I was reading your post, to which I agree much, and as I was approaching the end, "Be still, and know that I am God", the kids (we are watching my best lady's nephews) move blared a loud feedback noise like a loud rock concert.

Whoever is running this shit has a hilarious sense of humor. nothing left to do but smile smile smile:heartpump:


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OfflineChuckfinely
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Stromrider]
    #19193827 - 11/26/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I always have such a hard time putting my thoughts on this matter into words. This is a subject where everything you say gets picked apart, usually to the end of "you're thinking isn't correct, mine is".


Quote:

Stromrider said:
Chuck did you ever question your spirituality before using psychedelics? Just curious




I did. However I was always way more on the skeptic side. I mostly just pushed it to the back of my head, because at the time the only conclusion I could come to is that everything is random and meaningless, and that isn't the most comforting conclusion :lol:. Psychedelics opened up the possibility to me that there might be some sort of design, or at least a hidden, un-perceptible side to things. I would like to be able to feel that love and freedom and profoundness that a trip provides while still sober. I feel like that would be one of the highest forms of existence in this plane



@mark:

i agree with the religion not being all wrong thing. I went too far with putting it down. I should clarify its the people are whats wrong with it, not the general message.

To me it just sounds like 99% of anyone who is religious. To submit without reason or evidence. I would of course submit my entire being if I were to encounter sufficient evidence. I watched the documentary Ram Das did after his stroke called fierce grace. In it he tells the story of the moment that caused him to shift from an ego centered skeptic, to a believer. An Indian saint that had never met him before told him exactly what he was thinking the previous night. Some people just require a little push over the edge, me being one of them. If I were to hear someone tell me my thoughts that they couldn't possibly know, I would throw myself at their feet and follow whatever path they showed me. For now, I am unsatisfied with "i dont know" or "it just is".

What do you submit to? Is it a deity or do you mean submit in the sense of "to let go" of your ego? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by submission. So far in my life submission in the spiritual sense has always meant "your will is wrong, god's will is correct", even if my will is to love and help others, its wrong because its mine.

Sure I still have some work to do. Not everyone wakes up with absolutely no sense of self and becomes a bald headed monk meditating all day. My brain just tends to analyze and tries to find the source. I understand the source of everything is something you can never know for certain, and will probably be something I ponder until my last moments. To claim anything with absolute certainty would be fooling yourself.


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OfflineMahananda


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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: eve69]
    #19194003 - 11/26/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
When I was a little kid there were these St Germain 7th Ray people and I used to listen to their harp stuff and lie on my back and think I Am Dead. Do what thou will God.  7th ray was purple light.




This reminds me of something you might remember: the Nazir Order of the Purple Veil, who used to operate the Veil of Truth bookstore off Esplanade near Whole Foods.  I still remember their distinctive purple robes and the interesting collection of odds and ends in their store.  I guess both Whole Foods (in that location anyway) and the Purple People are gone now. :frown:


--------------------
Come, come, whoever you are.
Wanderer, worshiper, lover of living, it doesn't matter
Ours is not a caravan of despair.
Come even if you have broken your vow a thousand times,
Come, yet again, come, come


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Offlineeve69
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Re: looking for my spiritual path [Re: Mahananda]
    #19195091 - 11/27/13 04:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mahananda said:
Quote:

eve69 said:
When I was a little kid there were these St Germain 7th Ray people and I used to listen to their harp stuff and lie on my back and think I Am Dead. Do what thou will God.  7th ray was purple light.




This reminds me of something you might remember: the Nazir Order of the Purple Veil, who used to operate the Veil of Truth bookstore off Esplanade near Whole Foods.  I still remember their distinctive purple robes and the interesting collection of odds and ends in their store.  I guess both Whole Foods (in that location anyway) and the Purple People are gone now. :frown:




Sure I remember them. I am not sure if their bookstore is gone but you still see one or two 'purple people' selling incense on Canal.


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...or something







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