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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19158694 - 11/19/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

evolution does accelerate when viewed from the understanding that evolution happens with consciousness as the medium. This is obvious by the own acceleration factor in technology. its based on the same reasoning, the more aware life becomes, the more aware life can become..the greater the awareness, the greater the complexity.

You can see this with technology, which should be considered apart of evolution as well since we invented technology as our awareness grew..the greater the awareness the greater the technology, and the greater the technology the greater the awareness which is further proof of the acceleration of evolution.


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zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19158702 - 11/19/13 08:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Your assumptions must be wrong. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Icelander]
    #19158746 - 11/19/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I know you don't care what I think because you're as cold as ice and willing to sacrifice our love.

Also, yes I am wrong. And I am progressing. So?


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Icelander]
    #19158922 - 11/19/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

yeah except I haven't made any assumptions but am describing an observation and why this observation makes more sense than whatvis currently accepted as the facts of the matter. if anyone had any sort of reading comprehension going on they would see consciousness, mind, body as all one thing and to call consciousness secondary towards evolution only proves the error and narrow scope of most peoples ideas in regards to consciousness and evolution.
every living thing has atleast a basic level of consciousness or it wouldn't be considered living. consciousness is not special to humans alone, that would be naive to think that and yet many do. the complexity of human consciousness evolved as it did not as the result of random chance..but at the universes will to become more aware or conscious of itself through what we call the process of life, which must have consciousness or awareness of what's around (the universe) in order to survive and become more aware of itself and the universe which created it.

I feel one flaw of logic is that. many don't see themselves as a part of the universe but as an inhabitant of the universe. They also see the universe as a hostile cold thing, never realizing the irony of even being able to think such a thing resulted because of the universe in the first place.

if you can agree that humans represent the apex of evolution on this planet than surely you must also agree it is because of human consciousness which allowed this to be, and that consciousness, that is to say awareness of the universe, is the most rapid and accelerating facet of evolution..a more conscious being as the goal and this is why the evolution of consciousness is what must be taking place versus happening because of purely random physical mutations which take place over millions of years before a new species is declared. The latter and current accepted model has no purpose other than to survive, and yea this is part of the story, but the. part many cannot see is that as things evolved over time so did awareness to the point beyond strictly survival, but survival was the first concern and survival and increasing the chances of survival happened because life was able to become aware or more conscious of its environment, the consciousness of survival led to surviving physical mutations..think about it, in order to. overcome a problem one must be aware of it to begin with. awareness of a problem led to physical mutations to fix survival problems, however if the goal of life (customs+novelty=evolution) is to just survive than why did consciousness evolve beyond the basic survival instinct at all? as random chance?

I think its much more logical to say that consciousness evolves life and life evolves consciousness, that consciousness is the goal of evolution, not survival of the fittest.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19159013 - 11/19/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Proof you ask?

Consciousness leads to a greater awareness of reality, a greater awareness of reality leads to advantageous insights and/or radical changes in behavior..even within a single persons lifetime.

When we do things, with the intent to get better, whatever we do, we get better at..This is the concept of practice. Practicing anything increases all muscles and brain matter associated with the action. Since the action was conceived within consciousness before it actually took place, this means that consciousness is the medium and all else secondary effects in regards to evolution.

Where most scientific minds mess up is by denying their own consciousness and thus see all secondary as the primary, denying consciousness even further as a manifestation of their own denial.




Proof you ask? Well, screw that. Here's some more speculation!


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InvisibleJuicin
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19159056 - 11/19/13 10:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)







Op sentience is not what you describe it to be. Although primates are the most obvious examples of animals who can reach "our level" of sentience. We are not the peak of existence

I'll just ignore the rest of the ridiculous shit you've said in this thread.

edit - thought they would link as text not embed, not sure how to fix


Edited by Juicin (11/19/13 10:40 AM)


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: White Beard]
    #19159101 - 11/19/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

and how is my logic flawed again?

I provided logical evidence for my reasoning and the best anyone here can do is straw away. I though this was a debate forum so why all the lack of debate?

how am I wrong? point out the flaw.


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zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx] * 1
    #19159126 - 11/19/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
and how is my logic flawed again?

I provided logical evidence for my reasoning and the best anyone here can do is straw away. I though this was a debate forum so why all the lack of debate?

how am I wrong? point out the flaw.




You presented a false analogy. Evolution is not the same thing as personal development. If someone trains all their life to be a great pianist, and then gives birth to a child, the child isn't born knowing how to play the piano.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #19159138 - 11/19/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Universaleyeni said:
I know you don't care what I think because you're as cold as ice and willing to sacrifice our love.

Also, yes I am wrong. And I am progressing. So?




:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx] * 2
    #19159143 - 11/19/13 11:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

if you can agree that humans represent the apex of evolution on this planet

I don't


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: White Beard]
    #19159187 - 11/19/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I did not use that analogy, you did.

what I am saying is that awareness or consciousness of the universe is behind evolution ... not that awareness or consciousness happened due to evolution.  DNA is information and that information changes because of information taken in through consciousness. mutations do not only occur within offspring but during an organisms lifetime as well and these mutations can be passed on through generations.

so while the kid may not know how to play piano, the kid may be genetically inclined towards a better understanding of music.


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zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx] * 1
    #19159244 - 11/19/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
I did not use that analogy, you did.





Yes you did.

what you wrote:
"Consciousness leads to a greater awareness of reality, a greater awareness of reality leads to advantageous insights and/or radical changes in behavior..even within a single persons lifetime.

When we do things, with the intent to get better, whatever we do, we get better at..This is the concept of practice. Practicing anything increases all muscles and brain matter associated with the action. Since the action was conceived within consciousness before it actually took place, this means that consciousness is the medium and all else secondary effects in regards to evolution.

Where most scientific minds mess up is by denying their own consciousness and thus see all secondary as the primary, denying consciousness even further as a manifestation of their own denial."

You're relating evolution to practice, and then saying practice occurs because of conscious intent, therefore evolution occurs from conscious intent. Your logic fails because this is a faulty analogy.

Quote:

hTx said:

so while the kid may not know how to play piano, the kid may be genetically inclined towards a better understanding of music.




No, this isn't true at all. This is like saying giraffes have long necks because their ancestors stretched their necks reaching for high branches.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Universaleyeni] * 1
    #19159261 - 11/19/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Universaleyeni said:
You shouldn't call someone names just because you disagree...that's pretty ignoramus of you




You shouldn't presume that its because he disagrees...such a presumption makes you the ignoramus.  You can disagree and not be an ignoramus, but in this instance this is not the case.  The OP is clearly ignorant of biology.  Not only that, hes stubbornly close minded and has already made up his mind to accept his own nonsensical gibberish rather than the evidence presented by life itself and the work of thousands of mankind's brightest.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: DieCommie]
    #19159295 - 11/19/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

seems that way:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Icelander]
    #19159326 - 11/19/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Seems the new mainstream is to equate psychedelic experiences with evolution. Lol


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19159461 - 11/19/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

if the real meaning of a word is not the same as some poetic abstraction you can run into this type of clash in meanings, attitudes, beliefs - people come to understand a colloquial or pedestrian meaning, and want to throw the real meaning of the word into the compost.

that is not a good practice

"Evolution" suffers from having an accepted but unfortunate non-biological interpretation related to any gradual change of any type; but it still has its intended original meaning that is related to the origin of species. and this should not be tossed into the compost for its lack of poetic suitability.

Evolution really only makes sense when discussing species as in genetics - in biology,  is not about mapping thoughts to the brain or to civilization - thoughts are not species, thoughts do not mate, and their viability is not measured by how successfully they fuck, how many eggs and idea has, or if an idea can beat another idea in a niche in order to fuck and lay eggs.

without the fuck it's not evolution, and if any ideas are put forth that don't have this element, you don't know fuck all about evolution


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Khancious]
    #19159599 - 11/19/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Khancious said:
Seems the new mainstream is to equate psychedelic experiences with evolution. Lol





I like da crow.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Icelander]
    #19159661 - 11/19/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The op hypothesizes that conciousness is also evolving. Thats it. Thats a pretty cool concept. I think science is not a resource that can explain this, obviously.

Its ok to not accept a theory because it didnt come out of a science book. But dont hate.

Evolution happens every day in every way. I looked up the definition of evolution. I smiled when i realized that this topic is just like alot of other ones that get shot down. Language sucks. Maybe there is a better word for this than "evolution". Thinking outside the sphere and trying to explain it with the best vocabulary available to our brains is cool and tough. (Like icey)

Youre all really cool and i learn from you even if we disagree. Alot of you guys are very fucking smart people (not being sarcastic)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #19160083 - 11/19/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Evolution happens every day in every way.

Wrong and that's what folk here have been trying to explain to you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Icelander]
    #19160165 - 11/19/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Seems hTx got bitch-slapped in his thread about quantum physics and didn't learn a single thing.



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