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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
Re: I have just had a heated, yet polite, conversation with a manager [Re: Khii Khwaay]
    #19160576 - 11/19/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Khii Khwaay said:
75$ an hour is hardly an exorbitant rate. This is Canada we're talking about.






I have to disagree.


And please don't misunderstand me. Not sure about construction / contractors (as I've never had to use them), but I assume they would charge around the same for labor in the US. That's around what mechanics tend to charge, for labor. So I assume it would be in that neighborhood.


I'm not saying the rate is outrageous for that field, but that there are not a whole lot of jobs without an advanced degree (doctor, lawyer, etc) that pay that much per hour. Most of them are in the area of skilled labor. Locksmiths. Electricians. Mechanics. Etc.


Contrast that with minimum wage. Federally it's something like $7.25 an hour. Only a few states have a higher minimum... and then it's only slightly higher, compared to the cost of living in those states, which tends to be much higher.  Anyway, my point is, that $75/hr is about ten times what a low-wage employee makes. So if I work at wal mart (which I don't, thank god, but I know some who do) you have to work for TEN FUCKING HOURS (or more than one full work day)  just to pay for some guy to perform ONE HOUR worth of work for you.


So if these people are taking their already high rate of pay, and padding that, by adding charges for labor they did not actually perform, that makes them serious, serious assholes. They may not think much of it. "Oh, it's just a couple extra hours added on."  But that could be two whole goddamned days at work, for their customer.

And like I said: your typical wal mart employee, for example, would get fired for even padding their schedule a little bit. And in that case, we are talking about hours they're actually clocked in and working.  Like I said-- I'm not sure about how common that is with this kind of thing, as I've never had to use such services, but mechanics are notorious for it. An honest mechanic is just about worth his weight in gold, around here.


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I am me. We are You.


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: I have just had a heated, yet polite, conversation with a manager [Re: Patlal]
    #19160820 - 11/19/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

badchad said:
Would you have still gone with the same contractor if they gave you a "lump sum" estimate instead of breaking out the wages?  I mean, had they known you would complain I'm sure they would have slowed down to make you happy.




If they hadn't told me that they charged by the hour, I would not have complained.



That was a bad move by them.  Typically a contractor will do his estimates for "man hours" at which he estimates the average worker will take to complete the work then give you the price by multiplying by the hourly wage, but will not give you an actual time, just a cost.  A good worker should be able to do well over a "man hour" of work in an hour.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: I have just had a heated, yet polite, conversation with a manager [Re: Patlal]
    #19160849 - 11/19/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
I recently had some of my windows changed in my house. The company charged me 2300$

Out of this 2300, there a 750$ installation fee. The fee is calculated at 75$/hour. They sent 2 men so they charge me 150$ for 5 hours of work.

The thing is, it took them exactly 2 hours to install the windows. Therefore they charged me 150$ X 3 = 450$ more than it was supposed to be. I was kinda pissed.

I went to the store and talked to manager a manager who offered me a big wall of NO! when it came to reducing the bill. From there, most people would have raised their voice. I didn't, I offered all sort of arguments (I'm not gonna write them all though). I argued with him for 15 minutes and none of us yelled. I am surprised that I didn't even swear. Not a single fuck has been said.

The thing is, I still need more windows and they are the cheaper company around. So after the agreement (which I essentially lost) I put in my order and the manager offered me free installation (which would take them an hour).

TL;DR: If you argue with a cool head in life, you will get more than if you walk in and yell or if you do nothing at all.


I'm proud of myself.

That being said, when is the last time you flipped out at a manager?




Does the contract specify the labor charge is an hourly one or does it merely state "labor"?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
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Re: I have just had a heated, yet polite, conversation with a manager [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19160860 - 11/19/13 05:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

labor...


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InvisibleLynnch
Strangerer
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Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,855
Re: I have just had a heated, yet polite, conversation with a manager [Re: Patlal]
    #19161005 - 11/19/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If I was that manager I would've told you to go fuck yourself (In nicer words) too.
They were nice and gave you a price breakdown so you understood what you were paying for, and you went and nickle an dimed em.  The labor fee you're paying isn't just for the work done, its to book them for that time including any potential overage time.  Construction isn't exact, you have to allow flexibility. But because it isn't exact, they can't book other jobs any time near yours. So by charging you a flat rate, they're guaranteeing what they take home. The way to look at it is that they busted their asses and did a 5 hour job in 2. And paying that way is for your benefit too ya know, it could have been a clusterfuck nightmare and gone 8 hours, and you'd be on the other side of the argument telling them that the contract said 5 hours so thats all you're paying.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: I have just had a heated, yet polite, conversation with a manager [Re: Patlal]
    #19161030 - 11/19/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
labor...




Then what the installers did was proper and you should have paid the full amount.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: I have just had a heated, yet polite, conversation with a manager [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #19161089 - 11/19/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Quote:

Khii Khwaay said:
75$ an hour is hardly an exorbitant rate. This is Canada we're talking about.






I have to disagree.


And please don't misunderstand me. Not sure about construction / contractors (as I've never had to use them), but I assume they would charge around the same for labor in the US. That's around what mechanics tend to charge, for labor. So I assume it would be in that neighborhood.


I'm not saying the rate is outrageous for that field, but that there are not a whole lot of jobs without an advanced degree (doctor, lawyer, etc) that pay that much per hour. Most of them are in the area of skilled labor. Locksmiths. Electricians. Mechanics. Etc.


Contrast that with minimum wage. Federally it's something like $7.25 an hour. Only a few states have a higher minimum... and then it's only slightly higher, compared to the cost of living in those states, which tends to be much higher.  Anyway, my point is, that $75/hr is about ten times what a low-wage employee makes. So if I work at wal mart (which I don't, thank god, but I know some who do) you have to work for TEN FUCKING HOURS (or more than one full work day)  just to pay for some guy to perform ONE HOUR worth of work for you.


So if these people are taking their already high rate of pay, and padding that, by adding charges for labor they did not actually perform, that makes them serious, serious assholes. They may not think much of it. "Oh, it's just a couple extra hours added on."  But that could be two whole goddamned days at work, for their customer.

And like I said: your typical wal mart employee, for example, would get fired for even padding their schedule a little bit. And in that case, we are talking about hours they're actually clocked in and working.  Like I said-- I'm not sure about how common that is with this kind of thing, as I've never had to use such services, but mechanics are notorious for it. An honest mechanic is just about worth his weight in gold, around here.




I agree. Just an FYI most mechanics do get paid flat rate. Doesn't matter if it takes 2 hours or 8 hours to do a 5 hour job, you're paying for 5 hours and he's getting paid for 5.


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InvisibleKhii Khwaay
black tooth grin

Registered: 04/16/12
Posts: 2,277
Re: I have just had a heated, yet polite, conversation with a manager [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #19161397 - 11/19/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yep, and a good mechanic will almost always get the job done in less time than the book rate (at least that's the way it usually happens in my shop).

Skilled labourers are much harder to come across than those that are only able to find work at Wally world, and I am willing to bet that each one of those guys was getting at least $15 an hour, maybe up to $20. Minimum wage in Ontario is north of $10 per hour.

Don't forget that the labour rate doesn't just pay the employee, but it also puts fuel in the truck, pays the taxes and insurance, the rent on the barn, tool replacement, etc.

This is Canada, where the guys that wear Carhartt and know how to hustle make six figures.


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