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bik123
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Registered: 07/31/10
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chicken of the woods
#19158403 - 11/19/13 06:13 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Can one grow chicken of the woods in supplemented sawdust or it must be done in logs?
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: bik123]
#19158778 - 11/19/13 09:17 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Should be able to use sawdust
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nanncee



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A quick search on the threads would pull up all the info you are looking for.
-------------------- I am a small scale farmer, come check out what we do. www.facebook.com/biocentricbros Check out our Youtube videos. www.youtube.com/biocentricbros
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drake89
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: nanncee]
#19158874 - 11/19/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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i posted one a few months back... here is my most recent pic from the other day 
not super impressive, or....is it?
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: drake89]
#19160019 - 11/19/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nice photo
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t3chnobily
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its a mushroom. better than me or most other people have done with this species.
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Terry M
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: drake89]
#19169466 - 11/21/13 11:05 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
drake89 said: i posted one a few months back... here is my most recent pic from the other day 
not super impressive, or....is it?
Nice! Did you just poke a hole in the bag where a primordium had formed, and the mushroom grew its way out?
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: Terry M]
#19169523 - 11/21/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Looks like it grew out of the filter patch
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
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Quote:
liamtheloser said: Looks like it grew out of the filter patch
This
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t3chnobily
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: drake89]
#19172607 - 11/21/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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How far did the mycilium have to climb to get to the patch? Was the bag very full of substrate? What was your substrate recipe, colonization time line, and fruiting conditions?
Definitely interested in trying this one again and would love if you could post some details.
Would be sweet if we could figure out how to produce this species efficiently. Thanks
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drake89
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: t3chnobily]
#19172635 - 11/21/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Some poles (ppl from Poland) figured it out and published a paper on it. I made a thread about my efforts a while ago. So look that up. It climbed up a few inches, regular 5lb block. Followed the procedures to a T almost. Papers title is something like 'successful large scale cultivation of L Sulp'. Published 2013.
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ghiajake
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: drake89]
#19173699 - 11/22/13 05:31 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey drake. How fast does the myc grow?
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t3chnobily
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: ghiajake]
#19173791 - 11/22/13 06:31 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: ghiajake]
#19174335 - 11/22/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ghiajake said: Hey drake. How fast does the myc grow?
Pretty damn fast. Nearly as fast as any oyster. I notice a lag though, often. Sometimes two weeks- nothing- then bam 3 days later 100%.
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ghiajake
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: drake89]
#19175058 - 11/22/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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In your thread drake, liam mentioned that in the paper (I have it, but haven't fully studied it yet) they slit the bag just above the substrate to fruit. Have you tried it that way yet? It's been a couple months since any posts on your thread, have you still been growing them? You never mentioned what grain you used before spawning to your supplemented sawdust (I assume rye).
I have an idea on substrate that I plan to try out as soon as I get the COTW culture I traded for almost 2 months ago. I may just have to see if I can clone some local cultures. In the old growth forest mostly oak) I found all my chickens at this year, there are many felled trees that are in varying stages of decomp. Several are simply piles of composting sawdust from the hearts of the trees. It's not dirt yet, still has a reddish-brown color to it. I want to supplement my grain jars with some of this, maybe make a tea of it to hydrate the grains with as well. That way when I supplement fresh red oak sawdust with this natural decomposing sawdust and verm it will already be used the decomp sawdust. I plan to lime pasteurize the bulk substrate and use buckets like for oyster grows, but less holes. I'm wondering if the size of the fruiting body is determined by the strength and stability of it's base. This could explain the smaller fruits when they are coming out of the filter patches. Just a thought.
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drake89
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: ghiajake]
#19175372 - 11/22/13 03:51 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ghiajake said: In your thread drake, liam mentioned that in the paper (I have it, but haven't fully studied it yet) they slit the bag just above the substrate to fruit. Have you tried it that way yet? It's been a couple months since any posts on your thread, have you still been growing them? You never mentioned what grain you used before spawning to your supplemented sawdust (I assume rye).
I have an idea on substrate that I plan to try out as soon as I get the COTW culture I traded for almost 2 months ago. I may just have to see if I can clone some local cultures. In the old growth forest mostly oak) I found all my chickens at this year, there are many felled trees that are in varying stages of decomp. Several are simply piles of composting sawdust from the hearts of the trees. It's not dirt yet, still has a reddish-brown color to it. I want to supplement my grain jars with some of this, maybe make a tea of it to hydrate the grains with as well. That way when I supplement fresh red oak sawdust with this natural decomposing sawdust and verm it will already be used the decomp sawdust. I plan to lime pasteurize the bulk substrate and use buckets like for oyster grows, but less holes. I'm wondering if the size of the fruiting body is determined by the strength and stability of it's base. This could explain the smaller fruits when they are coming out of the filter patches. Just a thought.
Look at the paper. That's real my only advice. It's all there. Slitting only resulted in trich out. Your buckets and lime simply won't work as they need 40+% supplementation and low moisture. Edit: it's also a matter of strain. 2/12 strains fruited well in the paper. I reckon I just got lucky on the first try. But I got a dozen or so untested new isolates.
Edited by drake89 (11/22/13 03:56 PM)
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ghiajake
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: drake89]
#19176817 - 11/22/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ok, just got done reading the paper fully. I don't see anything that implies my idea wouldn't work. The article simply states the fastest results they got from their method. They even state that the supplemented substrate had no measurable affect, and imply that the culture (not the substrate) was the determining factor in this experiment.
Quote:
It was found that in all the experimental treatments, L. sulphureus mycelium colonized the substrate completely after 4 weeks of incubation. The amount of the organic additives applied failed to affect mycelium growth. However, it was observed that the L. sulphureus strains examined differed with respect to the speed of substrate colonization by mycelium. The substrate was colonized the fastest by mycelia of the strains LAE 01, LAE 03 and LAE 12.
If you look at their charts, you can see that there are holes in their data due to what I imagine was contaminated samples(ie, the data on the 30% supplemented at 60% and 65% moisture content). Not to mention there is no data on any other cultures besides LAE01 and LAE12(Fig 2a-b). Fig. 3 shows that although the 40% moisture samples of LAE01 fruited faster, each sample of moisture content and supplementation had the same 5-7 day fruiting period.
Quote:
Fruiting bodies appeared the earliest (after 6 days) on substrates with high organic supplementation(45 and 40%) and a low water content(40 %). Simultaneously, the higher the moisture of the substrate, the later the fruiting bodies appeared. When the water content reached 60–65 %, fruiting began only after 28–30 days from the date of induction.
The first sentence of the next paragraph in the closing statement says: Quote:
In the harvest, fruiting bodies reached a weight of 200–300 g and broke off under their own weight; this prevented statistical analysis of the data and determination of the attainable value of the biological efficiency(BE)For this reason, only one flush was obtained due to the infection at the carpophore fracture site. The BE calculated for the combinations for which fruiting bodies appeared on all the substrates, ranged from 15 to 21%.
This sounds to me to be what I was talking about the strength of the base of the fruiting body. I would also like to see data on the fruit body weight difference between the higher and lower substrate moisture percentages, which isn't included in the paper. Substrate moisture always determine fruiting body size, right? Sacrificing moisture content and fruit size for speed of fruiting doesn't sound like the most efficient way to cultivate the species.
They even state that, Quote:
It can be assumed that after minor modification of culture technology, larger fruiting bodies could be obtained.
What I was proposing is "fortifying" the grain spawn. This way the supplemental nutrients are available from the beginning and allows for the use of pasteurized bulk sub with a higher spawn ratio. Doing it this way could allow dunking of the grains before spawning(if needed) to the bulk sub of 40-60% moisture content.
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Forrester
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: ghiajake]
#19176855 - 11/22/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ghiajake said: What I was proposing is "fortifying" the grain spawn. This way the supplemental nutrients are available from the beginning and allows for the use of pasteurized bulk sub with a higher spawn ratio. Doing it this way could allow dunking of the grains before spawning(if needed) to the bulk sub of 40-60% moisture content.
Not interested in cultivating chickens myself at this point, but I've thought this was a good idea for a while now, have yet to try it out. Let me know if you have any success!
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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ghiajake
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: Forrester]
#19176943 - 11/22/13 11:27 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sure thing Forrester. Just said to hell with it and ordered a COTW syringe from the great people at the Spore Depot (Go Hoosiers!). Tired of waiting to get to work with them.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: chicken of the woods [Re: ghiajake]
#19176972 - 11/22/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I bet growing in buckets would solve the "breaking under their own weight" problem, I would like to get a culture of this to play with some time.
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