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hTx
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Evolution Dogma
#19158322 - 11/19/13 04:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Most materialists maintain that evolution is a strictly physical phenomena, and that human consciousness emerged due to the physical evolution of the brain.
I think its much more accurate to say that consciousness is whats evolving, and that physical changes follow, not the other way around.
This happens at an ever accelerating pace.
Proprietors of evolution claiming that consciousness has little to do with it, or subscribe to the whole 'survival of the fittest' type of logic surrounding evolution either cannot see or refuse to see that consciousness has been the medium for which all living things interact with their environment, and that consciousness has evolved and is evolving always.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
Edited by hTx (04/15/14 09:44 PM)
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hTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
#19158336 - 11/19/13 05:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Proof you ask?
Consciousness leads to a greater awareness of reality, a greater awareness of reality leads to advantageous insights and/or radical changes in behavior..even within a single persons lifetime.
When we do things, with the intent to get better, whatever we do, we get better at..This is the concept of practice. Practicing anything increases all muscles and brain matter associated with the action. Since the action was conceived within consciousness before it actually took place, this means that consciousness is the medium and all else secondary effects in regards to evolution.
Where most scientific minds mess up is by denying their own consciousness and thus see all secondary as the primary, denying consciousness even further as a manifestation of their own denial.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx] 1
#19158412 - 11/19/13 06:17 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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metaphorically you are correct.
only metaphorically.
evolution is a genetic theory, one that ties into the actuality of DNA, chromosomes, and the cells - tissues - and bodies that carry these specific chemical pattern markers in populations of individuals where shifts can be recorded using actuarial methods.
it is not fancy talk, it is true test tube - documented science.
however, ideas and ideologies have a shifting pattern, and you can seemingly observe and record those shifts. this is not the same thing, merely analogous, and the science of that is very poor.
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Universaleyeni
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I think even if ideas and ideologies have shifting patterns, they can still be considered evolving. Evolution is a constant, infinite thing. (I think)
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hTx
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Right but what I'm suggesting is that most if not all people who study evolution, never account for the most obvious facet of evolution which is consciousness. Because it would be like the tongue tasting itself or hearing ears listening..it just passes right over most people that consciousness is first and foremost, without it there would not be any awareness of anything, and it all starts with the basic survival awareness.
go here or die, type of consciousness. being aware of what is safe and what is unsafe, this awareness and knowledge led to living things to seek out and know safety vs unsafety and evolve physical attributes to make them selves more safe..the physical part of evolution is secondary to consciousness evolution even in single - celled organisms and bacteria when you think of it this way.
it also accounts for things such as accelerated evolution..it obviously takes a very long time for the awareness or consciousness that humans have in regards to the universe they find them selves apart of to develop, and its thanks to the collective consciousness of every single organism that came before it.
The idea always comes first even in the most simple of organisms.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx] 3
#19158510 - 11/19/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Right but what I'm suggesting is that most if not all people who study evolution, never account for the most obvious facet of evolution which is consciousness.
R-i-g-h-t. All of the experts WHO ACTUALLY STUDY BIOLOGY are all wrong and you have it figured out. We shall await your peer-reviewed white paper - NOT!
Why do so many ignoramuses post nonsense without even learning of that which they speak?
Evolution does not stall or accelerate. It is a backward-looking description and not a force of any kind guiding critters into the future.
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Universaleyeni
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You shouldn't call someone names just because you disagree...that's pretty ignoramus of you
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OrgoneConclusion
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I should apologize for having an education and knowing what I am talking about instead of disseminating faulty information?
What word would you choose that is more appropriate?
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Icelander
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx] 2
#19158553 - 11/19/13 07:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: Most materialists maintain that evolution is a strictly physical phenomena, and that human consciousness emerged due to the physical evolution of the brain.
I think its much more accurate to say that consciousness is whats evolving, and that physical changes follow, not the other way around.
This happens at an ever accelerating pace.
Proprietors of evolution claiming that consciousness has little to do with it, or subscribe to the whole 'survival of the fittest' type of logic surrounding evolution either cannot see or refuse to see that consciousness has been the driving factor in all living things, and that consciousness has evolved and is evolving always.
Well ok, where's your evidence? You continually make these posts but then don't present any evidence for your hypothesis.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Icelander]
#19158561 - 11/19/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Any student who even cracked a book on evolution would realize that it is not a 'driving force'. Of course, we cannot let knowledge get in the way of silly drug-induced ramblings.
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hTx
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Right but what I'm suggesting is that most if not all people who study evolution, never account for the most obvious facet of evolution which is consciousness.
R-i-g-h-t. All of the experts WHO ACTUALLY STUDY BIOLOGY are all wrong and you have it figured out. We shall await your peer-reviewed white paper - NOT!
Why do so many ignoramuses post nonsense without even learning of that which they speak?
Evolution does not stall or accelerate. It is a backward-looking description and not a force of any kind guiding critters into the future.

see how certain you are of what evolution is? dogma at its finest.
its entirely possible that what I'm suggesting in regards to evolution is true and I backed it up with logical reasoning. The "experts" would never go against established. thoughts on the matter because of dogma..and their own inability to credit consciousness with any sort of importance to the "science" of things.
this is based off a belief in materialistic philosophy. which claims to be backed by the very science its dogmatic beliefs/wants hinders. so that they are only able to see through that understanding which assumes way to much, blinding them to any and all other potential points of view such as consciousness being the force behind evolution because they barely ever considered consciousness to begin with and just assumed that consciousness is a random secondary effect of evolution..but as I showed above that viewpoint that evolution happens as a physical first and consciousness secondary is highly illogical.
so you going to quite grasping at straws? appealing to authority and subtly trying to insult me at the same time is hardly a good argument against the logical evidence that I presented above.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Universaleyeni
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Oc, I dont believe all knowledge comes from books. Also, drugs can help reach an altered state of conciousness in which we disregard everything we know, and learn more than ever. The universe is within us and without us, colorful, and beautifully chaotic. So any knowledge written in a book came first from experimentation and experience.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
#19158605 - 11/19/13 08:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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see how certain you are of what evolution is? dogma at its finest.
Knowing the definition of a word is not dogma. Is it possible for you to make sense?
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being the force behind evolution
Third time now. There is no force.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Quote:
Universaleyeni said: Oc, I dont believe all knowledge comes from books.
Relevance?
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Also drugs can help reach an altered state of conciousness in which we disregard everything we know, and learn more than ever.
Try learning a very specific discipline merely by doing drugs. That's right! You cannot.
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hTx
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I should apologize for having an education and knowing what I am talking about instead of disseminating faulty information?
What word would you choose that is more appropriate?
except your wrong and are a firm believer in your own faulty information. Where is your logical argument against my proposition if your so educated on the matter at hand?
funny when people claim to be experts and educated..yet can only appeal towards established beliefs about the nature of evolution, I have pointed out the flaw and why the flaw happened in regards towards the current accepted model of evolution, and yet no one can apparently pick out a flaw in my own reasoning.
Not surprised that you refuse to acknowledge the logical evidence I presented either, Ice.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Universaleyeni
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
#19158630 - 11/19/13 08:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's.not the drugs that make you learn anything...its the altered state of conciousness that opens the doors of perception. Some people get here by art, meditating, etc. For others, like a lot of our buddies on here, psychedelics do the trick.
My point is: no one has THE ANSWER. Through discussion and sharing of ideas we can combine knowledge, reinforce and challenge our beliefs.
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hTx
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
see how certain you are of what evolution is? dogma at its finest.
Knowing the definition of a word is not dogma. Is it possible for you to make sense?
Quote:
being the force behind evolution
Third time now. There is no force.

your beliefs considering evolution are most certainly dogma, the fact that you cannot see that the theory behind the observation of evolution as a theory but fact further prove me right.
in physics, Newton did great things..but was never able to see the intimate connection of time-space and relativity and Einstein did. If he would have just accepted Newtons mechanics as the full truth of the matter, he would have never made the objective progress he did with the theory of general relativity.
historically, people have always thought that what they knew was a matter of fact, and have always been proven wrong. its what we call progress.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Universaleyeni
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
#19158661 - 11/19/13 08:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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historically, people have always thought that what they knew was a matter of fact, and have always been proven wrong. its what we call progress.
Nice
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Icelander
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Quote:
Universaleyeni said: Oc, I dont believe all knowledge comes from books. Also, drugs can help reach an altered state of conciousness in which we disregard everything we know, and learn more than ever. The universe is within us and without us, colorful, and beautifully chaotic. So any knowledge written in a book came first from experimentation and experience.
Who cares what you "think".
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx] 1
#19158689 - 11/19/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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historically, people have always thought that what they knew was a matter of fact, and have always been proven wrong. its what we call progress.
Then whatever you are believing now is wrong.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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