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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19176606 - 11/22/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

dude, this isn't hard. Science requires experimental evidence, which you have shown none of.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19176628 - 11/22/13 09:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There is nothing to show evidence against because you haven't been specific with your "evidence".

Try to word your "evidence" as direct as possible without beating around the bush with opinionated wordiness. 

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" -Einstein


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InvisiblehTx
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Registered: 03/27/13
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: White Beard]
    #19176665 - 11/22/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
dude, this isn't hard. Science requires experimental evidence, which you have shown none of.



http://barbiezabel.blogspot.ca/2006/11/science-says-dna-can-be-changed-with.html

have you never heard of epigenetics dude? there is plenty experimental evidence presented in this field which supports every thing about my theory that consciousness is primarily involved in evolution.

several recent breakthroughs in the field of epigenetics, which primarily studies the epigenome, the protective package of proteins around which genetic material – strands of DNA – is wrapped. The epigenome plays a crucial role in determining which genes actually express themselves in a creature's traits: in effect, it switches certain genes on or off, or turns them up or down in intensity. It isn't news that the environment can alter the epigenome; what's news is that those changes can be inherited.

Everything that happens in response (consciousness) to the environment during an organisms life effects its gene expression which can be passed through generations. This is just one example of experimental evidence which supports the theory of consciousness having a primary function in evolution.



--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


Edited by hTx (11/22/13 09:36 PM)


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InvisibleHobozen
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Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19176687 - 11/22/13 09:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Everything that happens in response (consciousness) to the environment during an organisms life




more vagueness :blah:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19176813 - 11/22/13 10:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So far no one has showed any sufficient evidence against consciousness evolution by means of accelerating complexity, right?

That's because no one is saying that is not true. What they are saying is there is zero evidence of it being true. Words are not evidence. Words are words.

Conventional Darwinian evolution has hard evidence both in the fossil record and in direct real-time observation of rapidly-reproducing species both in nature and in the lab.

Words are not evidence. Go get the evidence and I will brag to my friends that I knew you before you won the Nobel Prize for rewriting Darwin.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19176816 - 11/22/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

htx sez: There is no way that I'm mistaken about this.






--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19177030 - 11/22/13 11:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Looks like a case of being not even wrong.


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InvisiblehTx
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Registered: 03/27/13
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Hobozen]
    #19177048 - 11/22/13 11:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
There is nothing to show evidence against because you haven't been specific with your "evidence".

Try to word your "evidence" as direct as possible without beating around the bush with opinionated wordiness. 

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" -Einstein




Ok, thank you for clarifying.


Since consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself, to prove the theory of the evolution of consciousness by means of accelerating complexity, we must show how the quality of being aware of an external object has evolved due to the increasing complexity of the universe, and that due to the increasing complexity of awareness, physical mutations occur as a means of not only increasing the general complexity of an organisms physical nature but its consciousness as well, and also serves as a means of accelerating this process of evolution and overall complexity of the universe.

Proving this will prove that the physical evolutionary process observed in living organisms happens due to the ever-increasing complexity of consciousness and the universe.  The evolution of consciousness by means of accelerating complexity.

So providing evidence that supports the above statement would mean that my theory of evolution is correct?

Would I also need to do the same to be able to say custom+novelty=evolution, since I will be using that equation to further explain how the process of accelerating complexity occurs and how this process leads to the evolution of consciousness and life?


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Diploid]
    #19177074 - 11/23/13 12:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
So far no one has showed any sufficient evidence against consciousness evolution by means of accelerating complexity, right?

That's because no one is saying that is not true. What they are saying is there is zero evidence of it being true. Words are not evidence. Words are words.

Conventional Darwinian evolution has hard evidence both in the fossil record and in direct real-time observation of rapidly-reproducing species both in nature and in the lab.

Words are not evidence. Go get the evidence and I will brag to my friends that I knew you before you won the Nobel Prize for rewriting Darwin.



Ok so by evidence you mean an objective observation which supports my theory, correct?

And thank you for not immediately dismissing the ideas presented here like a few others have, but for providing direction to better prove my hypothesis.

The way my logic works is that I see the whole picture and derive the parts from that vs seeing the parts to form a picture, which I think is the reason why a few of you here have gotten a little frustrated with the way that I go about explaining things. :lol:


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19177086 - 11/23/13 12:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Since consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself, to prove the theory of the evolution of consciousness by means of accelerating complexity, we must show how the quality of being aware of an external object has evolved due to the increasing complexity of the universe, and that due to the increasing complexity of awareness, physical mutations occur as a means of not only increasing the general complexity of an organisms physical nature but its consciousness as well, and also serves as a means of accelerating this process of evolution and overall complexity of the universe.




...

Quote:

Proving this




Proving what?  Ramble?  You refer to "this" as if it is something tangible.  But it is not.  It's ramble.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Hobozen]
    #19177152 - 11/23/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
Quote:

hTx said:
Everything that happens in response (consciousness) to the environment during an organisms life




more vagueness :blah:



It only seems vague because an organisms consciousness is what allows for every single behavior that would be considered a response to the environment, including physical evolution.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Hobozen]
    #19177168 - 11/23/13 12:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
Quote:

hTx said:
Since consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself, to prove the theory of the evolution of consciousness by means of accelerating complexity, we must show how the quality of being aware of an external object has evolved due to the increasing complexity of the universe, and that due to the increasing complexity of awareness, physical mutations occur as a means of not only increasing the general complexity of an organisms physical nature but its consciousness as well, and also serves as a means of accelerating this process of evolution and overall complexity of the universe.




...

Quote:

Proving this




Proving what?  Ramble?  You refer to "this" as if it is something tangible.  But it is not.  It's ramble.



Just because you cannot understand what I am talking about here doesn't make it ramble.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19177194 - 11/23/13 12:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:lolwut:

Einstein would disapprove of your use of the English language. 

One should learn to communicate before attempting to prove the intangible.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Hobozen]
    #19177501 - 11/23/13 02:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:wowz:

like you would even know such a thing, my use of the english language works perfectly and the way I describe my theory and the flaw in Darwins makes perfect logical sense, you obviously lack the reading comprehension skills to see this. 

Complexity in the universe, evolution and consciousness is easily observed to be increasing, and this is what the entire theory is based upon.

My evidence is plenty, I just have a bit of work to do as far as tying it all together in a way that is easily understandable.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Diploid]
    #19177527 - 11/23/13 02:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
So far no one has showed any sufficient evidence against consciousness evolution by means of accelerating complexity, right?

That's because no one is saying that is not true. What they are saying is there is zero evidence of it being true. Words are not evidence. Words are words.

Conventional Darwinian evolution has hard evidence both in the fossil record and in direct real-time observation of rapidly-reproducing species both in nature and in the lab.

Words are not evidence. Go get the evidence and I will brag to my friends that I knew you before you won the Nobel Prize for rewriting Darwin.



It is easy enough to assert that the universe is essentially complex, and that since we see evidence that the universe is expanding, its also easy to assert that the universe is increasing in complexity as well. If we take the big bang theory into consideration, we can also easily assert that the universe is increasing in complexity and has been since its birth.

The increase in complexity of the universe eventually spawned life. It is easy enough to assert that since life started on very basic terms and that through the process of evolution became something more complex, the assertion that life is increasing in complexity as well could easily be claimed as factual.

Evolution is easily asserted to be increasing in complexity as well, since life has grown in complexity through the process of evolution, its easy to see that the greater the complexity of life, the greater the complexity occurring within evolution.

Consciousness is a property of life therefore is also easily asserted to be increasing in complexity as well.

The shortcut to understanding this fact is that all evolution and consciousness are properties of life, and since life is obviously apart of the expanding universe, its obvious as well that every part of the universe contributes to the overall trend of increasing complexity.

Evidence, bitchs, atleast for establishing the ever-increasing complexity as a property of consciousness, life, and evolution as fact.

This fact, being essential to my theory, proves with evidence at least one assertion within the theory as factual. The rest will come when I have time, probably in a few short hours.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


Edited by hTx (11/23/13 02:46 AM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19177528 - 11/23/13 02:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ok so by evidence you mean an objective observation which supports my theory, correct?

You don't have a theory. You don't even have a hypothesis. At this point what you have is conjecture.

The way my logic works is

How you logic "works" or not isn't relevant. What's relevant is the (lack of) evidence for your conjecture so far.

which I think is the reason why a few of you here have gotten a little frustrated with the way that I go about explaining things.

The reason is that you keep making bare proclamations and demand that we take it on faith that it is true. When you're asked for evidence, instead of providing it, you make more proclamations and insist that you can't possibly be wrong. And again you expect us to take it on faith that "there is no way" you could be wrong just because you say so.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
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Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19177535 - 11/23/13 02:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Evidence, bitchs

Translation: more :blah: we're supposed to take on faith because "there is no way" he could be wrong.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisiblehTx
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Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Diploid]
    #19177541 - 11/23/13 02:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


You don't have a theory. You don't even have a hypothesis. At this point what you have is conjecture.




I'm making progress towards a theory at least and my conjecture is based on logical reasoning.

Quote:



he reason is that you keep making bare proclamations and demand that we take it on faith that it is true. When you're asked for evidence, instead of providing it, you make more proclamations and insist that you can't possibly be wrong. And again you expect us to take it on faith that "there is no way" you could be wrong just because you say so.





All proclamations were based on factual evidence, I just have to explain them better with references to the facts. I assumed many of the things I was basing my proclamations on were obvious facts, but alas, this shows me that it is not as easy as I assume it is to see how I come to my conclusions. So in the future I will better explain my reasoning like I just did in regards with regards too the fact of universal increase in complexity. Thanks.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: Diploid]
    #19177554 - 11/23/13 03:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Evidence, bitchs

Translation: more :blah: we're supposed to take on faith because "there is no way" he could be wrong.



Well I suppose you don't have to take my word for it.

http://asweknowit.ca/evcult/Complexity.shtml

Originally published in Journal of Social and Biological Structures 13(1): 33-40, 1990

"
Abstract: While science has accepted biological evolution through natural selection, there is no generally agreed explanation for why evolution leads to ever more complex organisms. Evolution yields organismic complexity because the universe is, in its very fabric, inherently complex, as suggested by Ilya Prigogine's work on dissipative structures. Because the universe is complex, increments in organismic complexity yield survival benefits: (1) more efficient extraction of energy and matter, (2) more flexible response to vicissitudes, (3) more effective search. J.J. Gibson's ecological psychology provides a clue to the advantages of sophisticated information processing while the lore of computational theory suggests that a complex computer is needed efficiently to perform complex computations (i.e. sophisticated information processing).
"


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Re: Evolution Dogma [Re: hTx]
    #19177589 - 11/23/13 03:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Do you even read your own links? That paper does not contain the word "consciousness", not even once. :ohwell:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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