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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Again, letting someone die isn't the same as assisted suicide.
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EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
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Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Enlil] 1
#19156601 - 11/18/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I'd be okay with assisted suicide if there were strict criteria that required psychological evaluation and judicial review beforehand.
Wow, so you agree with many users previous sentiments that you have disregarded prior.
It is a good thing youve read this thread and are informed in the participating members views.
Don't think anyone here has claimed to support a clinic where someone just walks in and doctors kill them.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: EdibleStereos] 1
#19156613 - 11/18/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
EdibleStereos said:
Don't think anyone here has claimed to support a clinic where someone just walks in and doctors kill them.
That was the original question in the OP:
Quote:
Do you think suicide clinics should be set up where any adult of legal age can walk in and painlessly die?
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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i think using psychedelics for a massive perspective overhaul should be a right.
probably a lot fewer people will want to die post-trip
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
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Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Enlil]
#19156652 - 11/18/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
EdibleStereos said:
Don't think anyone here has claimed to support a clinic where someone just walks in and doctors kill them.
That was the original question in the OP:
Quote:
Do you think suicide clinics should be set up where any adult of legal age can walk in and painlessly die?
Yeah, and the discussion evolved into a more complex discussion. Because you know, conversations tend to do that. Amazing isnt it?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: EdibleStereos]
#19156679 - 11/18/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Which is why I disregarded your feeble attempts at counterpoint. They didn't address my position which was that suicide clinics are a bad idea and shouldn't be legal.
There is a huge difference between having an option for assisted suicide under limited circumstances with proper checks and balances and having assisted suicide be a right. The former I can get behind. The latter I can't.
You just can't/don't read carefully enough to understand a nuanced position. It's all either black or white to you. I see no further point in trying to discuss this topic, or any topic, with you.
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader



Registered: 10/31/07
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Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Enlil]
#19157002 - 11/18/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey guys, interesting topic. Especially since I've been considering suicide for a while now.
I agree with Enlil pretty much. Everyone already has the right to suicide. However, actually successfully committing suicide is quite hard. You have the odds stacked against you. Only like 1 in 22 people who attempt suicide succeed. And committing suicide peacefully/painlessly is near impossible for most people as they don't have access to the tools to accomplish that.
Also if you try and fail you are pretty screwed. You'll lose your rights to a firearm. You'll be billed a good chunk of change from the emergency room. You might end up permanently disabled. I.E. a quadriplegic or vegetable, etc... Also your family won't view you the same way again. They'll always be scared you'll do something crazy.
Also some make the argument that suicide is de facto illegal. Meaning, if you attempt suicide and fail you're 5150'd and locked in a psych ward for at least 3 days. Some argue psych wards are worse than prison.
Also the most lethal methods are firearms and hanging. Firearm suicides are incredibly gory and f'ed up. Especially horrible if they're your family member or friend. Personally I'm angry that I can't get access to a cocktail of drugs that will for sure 100% kill me painlessly.
I don't really want to kill myself but my brain seems to be permanently out of wack and nothing has really helped. I've been to all kinds of specialists. However, I continue living because I'm too big of a pussy to actually kill myself.
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Adustus
Multiple Personalities




Registered: 11/14/13
Posts: 521
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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It should be a human right to reject the quality of life and being forced into its circumstances. Maybe instead of trying to control suicides we could make people not want to kill themselves as much hmm?
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Adustus
Multiple Personalities




Registered: 11/14/13
Posts: 521
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Adustus]
#19158706 - 11/19/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Besides you only break the law when you succeed. And at that point what are they gonna do? lol. An attempt only allows them to hospitalize you against your will. So be secretive and be certain of success or you have alot of shit to deal with. I know how the whole ordeal unfolds. Always a dead end.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
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Loc: Geospatial inversion.
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Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Alexestalex]
#19158858 - 11/19/13 09:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, in a controlled enviroment.
Because euthanasia in a controlled enviroment with personal acquintances (if any) leaves less of a mess. Thereafter there is no scene to be cleaned as the body can be properly disposed of or immediately dispensed to scientific research. I feel atleast a formal goodbye should be in place before leaving.
I see no reason why not neither do I see a reason to unless: -Untreatable chronic diseases coupled with pain. -Extreme mental anguish due to physical harm (eg. Olympic sprinter losing a leg, passionate craftsman loses his fingers, musician gets hit in the head and loses his motor skills to go on, ...)
I know that's not a broad spectrum but in the end I feel it doesn't matter whatever the reason you have we just need to solve this:
So, yes I also support clinics where you can just walk into and get it over with. Wouldn't want to see these booths privatized, rather a public service that is fully automated.
Edited by Beanhead (11/19/13 11:16 AM)
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
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Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Enlil]
#19159202 - 11/19/13 11:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I don't care about YOUR views...largely because they are an irrelevant foray into "societal cost" bullshit. I do care about the question of whether or not suicide clinics should exist, and the argument that such clinics would serve to reduce the societal cost of suicide is absurd. Whatever the societal cost of suicide, it is peanuts compared to the cost of even a single wrongly "suicided" person.
My argument is that suicide clinics can and will inevitably lead to some people being killed without giving informed consent. If I'm correct, it doesn't matter how much cost to society was saved by the clinic because the savings are offset by the dire cost of a mistake.
That's why your societal cost argument isn't a counterpoint at all.
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