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Offlinefrenchfries
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mini mono question
    #19156974 - 11/18/13 09:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I am building a mini mono that is 10 inches by 12 inches.  I will have the substrate 3 inches deep.  What size holes and how many should I make?


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: mini mono question [Re: frenchfries]
    #19157003 - 11/18/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

1.5 Inch to 2 inch.

Make 6 holes.

2 on each long side about 4 inches up from the bottom and evenly spaced laterally

And 1 on each short side as high as you can get it


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Stromrider]
    #19157059 - 11/18/13 09:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

perfect!  Has Jerry made it yet?


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Re: mini mono question [Re: frenchfries]
    #19157120 - 11/18/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not yet. :sad:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Stromrider]
    #19159231 - 11/19/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Lemme check on it homie


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Re: mini mono question [Re: frenchfries]
    #19159466 - 11/19/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

try to put your holes, in the level of your sub. this way the co2 can exit easily


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159481 - 11/19/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
try to put your holes, in the level of your sub. this way the co2 can exit easily




CO2 mixes with the air it's not a layer resting above the substrate like you might think it is. You want FAE in a monotub (even mini ones) you want fresh air coming in and going out. But still yes you do want to put the bottom holes at the level of your substrate for it to work properly.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159484 - 11/19/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
try to put your holes, in the level of your sub. this way the co2 can exit easily



Co2 does not sink/settle out of air.....just so you know.

Just clarifying.....


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OfflineAero
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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159497 - 11/19/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

Aero said:
try to put your holes, in the level of your sub. this way the co2 can exit easily



Co2 does not sink/settle out of air.....just so you know.

Just clarifying.....





yea u need some clarifying here

Because it's heavier than air, in locations where the gas seeps from the ground (due to sub-surface volcanic or geothermal activity) in relatively high levels, without the dispersing effects of wind, it can collect in sheltered/pocketed locations below average ground level, causing animals located therein to be suffocated..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

toxicity


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Edited by Aero (11/19/13 12:45 PM)


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159503 - 11/19/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

Aero said:
try to put your holes, in the level of your sub. this way the co2 can exit easily



Co2 does not sink/settle out of air.....just so you know.

Just clarifying.....





yea u need some clarifying here

Because it's heavier than air, in locations where the gas seeps from the ground (due to sub-surface volcanic or geothermal activity) in relatively high levels, without the dispersing effects of wind, it can collect in sheltered/pocketed locations below average ground level, causing animals located therein to be suffocated..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

toxicity




:popcorn::popcorn:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159504 - 11/19/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

True, but that's why you think it behaves the same way in a monotub. It doesn't. In fact those certain phenomenon are the only times toxic build up like that can even occur.

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

JayBrasco said:
fewer, you dont want alot of humidity to escape. only enough on the BOTTOM to get rid of CO2




Bad advice.  Fresh air exchange causes a loss of moisture from the cakes or other substrate, and this loss of moisture is the number ONE pinning trigger.  Noobs worry too much about humidity, which is easily corrected with misting.  You MUST mist to make up for the lost moisture.  In the old days, people would toss cakes in a sealed up chamber and hope for a couple of mushrooms before green mold set in.  Today, you can easily get three or four times the harvest the early growers did by using a proper terrarium that provides both fresh air and high humidity.

Furthermore, why you guys think CO2 is heavy like water and will drain out holes in the bottom baffles the mind.  If all the CO2 settled to the bottom, we'd all be dead due to the power plants and cars, cows, etc., that are puking out tons of CO2 by the minute.  The CO2 MIXES with the air and thus must be exchanged WITH the air.  It isn't a sweet little layer on the bottom of your fruiting chambers.

As for only reading 80% humidity in a shotgun terrarium with a humidifier running in the closet, it proves your hygrometer is screwed.  I can put a shotgun terrarium in an open room with the lid totally off and get higher humidity than that.

I seriously doubt anyone has lower humidity than I do.  It's below zero outside and I use a large cast iron wood stove to heat my cabin.  My properly made shotgun terrariums all read 95% or greater.  I keep a cool mist humidifier running near the wood stove, and it's nice and cozy in here, even though there's nearly five feet of snow on the ground outside.
RR




Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

fungusfreak said:
This will be a Brief description for newbies like myself who want to truly understand how an sgfc works and why..

A shotgun fruiting chamber is any container with multiple holes drilled on all 6 sides, the bottom is filled with damp perlite which maintains humidity through evaporation, they require misting and fanning everyday atleast twice a day.

The natural draft in a room is how a SGFC maintains its humidity the air blows through the holes in your chamber causing a vacuum and air is pulled into your perlite through the bottom


This air being pulled through the perlite carries with it tiny water molecules it picks up on the way through and deposits them in the atmosphere inside your tub creating an almost perfect humidity for your mycelium 24/7


Mycelium Ingest O2 and expels CO2 forming a gas layer of CO2 in your terrarium


Because CO2 is heavier then O2 it then settles at the lowest point in your terrarium


This is why its important to fan your cakes 3+ times a day forced air pushes the CO2 cloud out of your chamber and allows the moisture rich fresh air to take over,it also helps the evaporation process work and drys excess moisture of the cakes after a misting(no standing water on cakes ever..!!)


I Hope this helps and though it was not covered it is important to mist your cakes the misting of your SGFC will also provide help replenishing the moisture your perlite loses in its daily functioning

Best of luck




This is not correct.  The physics of the shotgun terrarium are that evaporation causes a temperature drop, thus the air molecules are closer together.  This results in higher pressure within the air spaces around the perlite. 

The substrates and/or lights provide slight heating within the body of the terrarium.  This results in relatively lower pressure.  This low pressure area above the perlite(high pressure) results in airflow to balance the pressure.  This in turn leads to more evaporation from the perlite, continuing the process.  This is why a shotgun terrarium handles FAE automatically.

The CO2 does not settle to the bottom.  In addition, the CO2 from mushrooms is mixed thoroughly into the O2, thus it travels out through the holes in the sides and top as part of the natural circulation.  It doesn't enter the denser air within the perlite and spill out the bottom.
RR






Edited by Trusted cuItivator (11/19/13 12:51 PM)


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19159509 - 11/19/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
True, but that's why you think it behaves the same way in a monotub. It doesn't.




Since we're experts here,

How does it? In mono-tubs that is.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159516 - 11/19/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
yea u need some clarifying here

Because it's heavier than air, in locations where the gas seeps from the ground (due to sub-surface volcanic or geothermal activity) in relatively high levels, without the dispersing effects of wind, it can collect in sheltered/pocketed locations below average ground level, causing animals located therein to be suffocated..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

toxicity






Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
CO2 is not like water which remains separate from air and will drain out the bottom.  The CO2 MIXES WITH THE AIR, thus does not 'leak out the bottom'.

Before you tell us to go to science class(I have two engineering degrees-do you?), you should go back to second grade to learn the difference between a whole and a hole.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16180683#16180683

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
CO2 does not sink to the bottom.  CO2 mixes with the air which is also being heated by the colonizing substrate.  The currents are thus in through the polyfill, and out(mostly) through the gap in the lid.  The polyfill mostly serves to slow down the rate of air/gas exchange, thus keeping humidity and CO2 above ambient.

If CO2 settled to the lowest point we'd all be dead from power plant and auto, etc., emissions.  Instead, CO2 can be measured at the top of the highest mountains.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18902483#18902483

Next time, for your own benefit, never quote wikipedia......


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159528 - 11/19/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

Aero said:
yea u need some clarifying here

Because it's heavier than air, in locations where the gas seeps from the ground (due to sub-surface volcanic or geothermal activity) in relatively high levels, without the dispersing effects of wind, it can collect in sheltered/pocketed locations below average ground level, causing animals located therein to be suffocated..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

toxicity






Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
CO2 is not like water which remains separate from air and will drain out the bottom.  The CO2 MIXES WITH THE AIR, thus does not 'leak out the bottom'.

Before you tell us to go to science class(I have two engineering degrees-do you?), you should go back to second grade to learn the difference between a whole and a hole.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16180683#16180683

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
CO2 does not sink to the bottom.  CO2 mixes with the air which is also being heated by the colonizing substrate.  The currents are thus in through the polyfill, and out(mostly) through the gap in the lid.  The polyfill mostly serves to slow down the rate of air/gas exchange, thus keeping humidity and CO2 above ambient.

If CO2 settled to the lowest point we'd all be dead from power plant and auto, etc., emissions.  Instead, CO2 can be measured at the top of the highest mountains.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18902483#18902483

Next time, for your own benefit, never quote wikipedia......





lol :laugh:



please


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159533 - 11/19/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

P.S.
wikipedia... really ? lol.

It has it's uses. This, take note, is not a good use of it.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19159539 - 11/19/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:smbfacepalm:    No one is talking about concentrated co2 genius....................................................

I knew you were gonna post a video of something like that...lol...they all do......





Quote:

bodhisatta said:
P.S.
wikipedia... really ? lol.

It has it's uses. This, take note, is not a good use of it.





:curbyourenthusiasm:


Edited by PussyFart (11/19/13 12:54 PM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159541 - 11/19/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:notards:

This is me ^

Encouraging everyone.

Bit of a drama queen, I r.

Oh, Hai NAH :smile:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19159545 - 11/19/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:wave:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19159551 - 11/19/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JMcDoogle said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
True, but that's why you think it behaves the same way in a monotub. It doesn't.




Since we're experts here,

How does it? In mono-tubs that is.




The co2 mixes with the air the top and bottom holes allow for a pressure bias to build up and the small fan in the room pushes "turbulent fae" through the monotub. that air is (o2+n2+Co2+etc..)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19159560 - 11/19/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
P.S.
wikipedia... really ? lol.

It has it's uses. This, take note, is not a good use of it.





quoting RR all the time :laugh: hahaha

are u familiar with the wine making?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1083623/Two-French-wine-makers-suffocated-carbon-dioxide-fumes-grapes-treading.html

it probably just happend to stay low, it was a sunday :laugh:


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Edited by Aero (11/19/13 12:57 PM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19159568 - 11/19/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I like the simultaneous posting of nearly identical replies in different words. I'll call it the dueling banjos.

I have 10+ 120BBL(bbl =31 gal) fermentation tanks pumping out massive ammounts of co2 through blowoff tubes that are leading down to floor level (where we work) Those blowoff tubes for 3700galons of beer are put into a 5 gallon bucket filled half way with water. The bubbles the first two days of fermentation are so vigorous that water has to be replaced in the buckets numerous times a day. The co2 from 37,000 gallons of freshly fermenting beer spilling onto the workfloor with doors closed (winter time) has not killed a single person yet in more than a decade. I highly doubt the handful of small (literally bedroom sized) ceiling fans that dot the ceiling (on low speed if at all on) four stories above move enough air.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (11/19/13 01:02 PM)


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OfflineAero
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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19159577 - 11/19/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Carbon dioxide is formed during the alcoholic fermentation of the grapes. Because it is 1.5 times heavier than air it sinks to floor level - the bottom of wine vats or in wine cellars.
The gas is odourless and colourless, meaning that ventilation and carbon dioxide testing during the wine-making process can become life-saving. A concentration of just eight per cent is enough to kill a human being.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1083623/Two-French-wine-makers-suffocated-carbon-dioxide-fumes-grapes-treading.html#ixzz2l7ip0JmC
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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159587 - 11/19/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

im coming from a city which is famous from its wineries

we know things about co2...


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159591 - 11/19/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That article is wrong....but wait, that cannot be, It's on the internet.......it must be true....


Believe what you wish...it is pointless to argue about it.

But if co2 actually sank, no one would ever be able to sleep on the floor.

That is pretty much self explanatory.....


Edited by PussyFart (11/19/13 01:04 PM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159605 - 11/19/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159609 - 11/19/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

c02 its self is heavier then oxygen BUT it mixes with oxygen then diffuses quickly...  so it doesn't sink because it mixes with other gases.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159618 - 11/19/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

co2 is always present,
but in a place like a box, or a wine cellar specially with fermenting wine or in the box mycelium that produces co2, the levels are higher.. thats it

RR's qoute on we all be dead is false, air is moving due to the temperature changes google how wind is present.

co2 in less ventilated places collects up at the floor level.
end of story, do your homework, and give proper advise to this poor guy trying to make the monotub..

if RR was right, no one would die of suffocation if co2 present in a room, which can occur quiet often in less ventilated rooms..


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Edited by Aero (11/19/13 01:11 PM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: silverstem]
    #19159619 - 11/19/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Extra extra read all about it

Erbudy dying at wineries these days. While no one is dying at breweries? Either way CO2 can buildup in things like mine shafts or valleys that are volcanid but not in your fruiting chamber. Mushrooms don't make that much co2


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159620 - 11/19/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:thisfuckinguy:


Edited by PussyFart (11/19/13 01:12 PM)


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OfflineAero
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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159629 - 11/19/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

u didnt get it did u.

the levels were so high that it filled up the whole place, like pouring water into a glass the water level rises..the co2 level in the air was that high..


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159630 - 11/19/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

In the case of the wineries it's not sinking co2 either it's replacing the air with co2. You're purging air with a co2 firehose from fermenting wine. It's making so much for such a small space that you're diluting the concentration of other components of air just piling underneath them.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159633 - 11/19/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
if RR was right, no one would die of suffocation if co2 present in a room, which can occur quiet often in less ventilated rooms..



Quote:

Aero said:
u didnt get it did u.

the levels were so high that it filled up the whole place, like pouring water into a glass the water level rises..the co2 level in the air was that high..



Yes, but it does not sink.....it is just at a higher concentration mixed in with the air.....none of this proves that it sinks......


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159637 - 11/19/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://colinb-sciencebuzz.blogspot.com/2010/01/if-co2-is-so-heavy-why-doesnt-it-sink.html

just read that answers everything..... same discussion were having.

Quote:

But the petrol fumes would  not stay for very long at ground level. Convection current carry them upwards, and gaseous diffusion would cause mixing with air even without convection. That's because gas molecules are in a state of constant motion, colliding with other molecules, millions of times a second, causing them gradually to diffuse ("spread") in all directions. The fumes gradually spread into all the space available - which could be a jar, a garage, a hangar, the entire atmosphere. Once the space is evenly occupied, the molecules then show no tendency to unmix. Why not? Answer: because the 1g force that acts on all molecules in air at sea level is insufficient to overcome the kinetic forces due to collision between molecules. Put more simply - a molecule that gets a strong bump from below will be knocked upwards, against the weaker force of gravity.




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Edited by silverstem (11/19/13 01:18 PM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159643 - 11/19/13 01:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
In the case of the wineries it's not sinking co2 either it's replacing the air with co2. You're purging air with a co2 firehose from fermenting wine. It's making so much for such a small space that you're diluting the concentration of other components of air just piling underneath them.





:laugh::D:D:D

okay

molecular weight of gases

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gas-density-d_158.html


guys u are really dumb


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Re: mini mono question [Re: silverstem]
    #19159649 - 11/19/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

silverstem said:
http://colinb-sciencebuzz.blogspot.com/2010/01/if-co2-is-so-heavy-why-doesnt-it-sink.html

just read that answers everything..... same discussion were having.

Quote:

But the petrol fumes would  not stay for very long at ground level. Convection current carry them upwards, and gaseous diffusion would cause mixing with air even without convection. That's because gas molecules are in a state of constant motion, colliding with other molecules, millions of times a second, causing them gradually to diffuse ("spread") in all directions. The fumes gradually spread into all the space available - which could be a jar, a garage, a hangar, the entire atmosphere. Once the space is evenly occupied, the molecules then show no tendency to unmix. Why not? Answer: because the 1g force that acts on all molecules in air at sea level is insufficient to overcome the kinetic forces due to collision between molecules. Put more simply - a molecule that gets a strong bump from below will be knocked upwards, against the weaker force of gravity.






:thumbup:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159665 - 11/19/13 01:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=2966


What you are really interested in the density of the gas, rather than the weight.For most gases at atmospheric pressure, a given volume contains the same number of molecules at a given temperature. This is known as the ideal gas law. The density (or how "heavy") something is depends on the amount of mass per volume - a pound of lead and a pound of feathers has the same mass, but take up quite different volumes, and hence have quite different densities, with the leak having a high density (heavy) and the feathers having a low density (light). For an ideal gas, the density is just the molecular weight of the gas, divided by the volume of a given number of molecules. Since a given number of molecules always takes up the same volume for a gas, the higher the molecular weight, the "heavier" the gas is, or the higher the density. Carbon dioxide has one carbon atom and two oxygen atoms, and a molecular weight of 44 grams per mole ( a certain number of molecules). The oxygen in the air is actually O2, or molecular oxygen, with a molecular weight of 32. Hence, carbon dioxide has a higher density, or is heavier than oxygen. That is why you need to be careful with carbon dioxide. It can displace the oxygen in a room and lead to asphyxiation.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159677 - 11/19/13 01:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Since 1 mole of any gas occupies the same volume, you can decide this by comparing the molar masses directly.

Air is mainly nitogen [molar mass N2=28] and one fifth oxygen [molar mass 32], so molar mass for air will be around 29.

Molar mass CO2 is 44g/mole .. so it is denser than air. You can actually pour it like a liquid eg into a deepish container with lighted candles of various heights. The candles will go out in turn.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159684 - 11/19/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yes if the room is not ventilated.... let me explain it easier...


use this image to help you..



the after mixture is all gasses mixed together... careful now, not bonded together because they bump into each other causeing them to be spread together..... c02 next to 02 next to c02 not c02 next to c02 next to c02...... this means that yes there is c02 but its not created as quickly as the fAE we allow so while the mixture leaves your monotub more oxygen is being introduced into it. allowing the mixture to dilute into more 02. do you fallow?


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159695 - 11/19/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
Molar mass CO2 is 44g/mole .. so it is denser than air. You can actually pour it like a liquid eg into a deepish container with lighted candles of various heights. The candles will go out in turn.



Pour it in a monotub and watch what happens.....it will rise.....

But again, no one is talking about concentrated co2.

You are going off the deep end here.....


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159700 - 11/19/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if its not ventillated of course im aware of this
im just saying that if he puts the holes at the same level as the sub, its easier to get rid of the excess co2


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159705 - 11/19/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

Aero said:
Molar mass CO2 is 44g/mole .. so it is denser than air. You can actually pour it like a liquid eg into a deepish container with lighted candles of various heights. The candles will go out in turn.



Pour it in a monotub and watch what happens.....it will rise.....

But again, no one is talking about concentrated co2.

You are going off the deep end here.....





have you tested that it rises? if not, please dont write it down, u giving out false information


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159723 - 11/19/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
if its not ventillated of course im aware of this
im just saying that if he puts the holes at the same level as the sub, its easier to get rid of the excess co2



Yes, this is how monotubs work......top holes stuffed loosley, bottom holes stuffed tight...

air is forced into the top holes, and then gets pushed out the bottom holes.

But the co2 is not "falling" out of the holes, it is being forced out, while it is mixed in with the air....because of the heat and humidity currents generated by the substrate.......

Quote:

Aero said:
have you tested that it rises? if not, please dont write it down, u giving out false information



Heat and humidity both rise....a large substrate generates a lot of heat and humidity.

The SGFC functions on this principal....heat and humidity rise out the top holes, pulling fresh air up thru the bottom holes and up thru the perlite....making it a self sustaining closed system.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159739 - 11/19/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

did u try it? put a candle on the sub then close the whole monotub.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159747 - 11/19/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it doesnt make a difference because it would diffuse with the air quickly.. we put the holes low so we could control fae near the sub and holes near the top to for the entire tub.. put c02 in a water bottle and open the lid and see how quickly it will diffuse into the air.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159748 - 11/19/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why would I have to?

This would prove nothing......the candle would stay lit, because it would continue to get oxygen....a monotub is not a sealed system...and when fruiting the co2 levels are rather low anyways.

I am about done explaining things to you.....






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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159760 - 11/19/13 01:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159763 - 11/19/13 01:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

try it, see how long the candle burns, if it goes off ealry u delete your profile from shroomery


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19159767 - 11/19/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ok....now I know you are trolling.....good day...... :nignored:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19159781 - 11/19/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:goodluckwiththat2:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160483 - 11/19/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
did u try it? put a candle on the sub then close the whole monotub.




Quote:

Aero said:
try it, see how long the candle burns, if it goes off ealry u delete your profile from shroomery




Mushrooms don't even make enough co2 to snuf a flame anyway. The monotub would be creating enough air current to keep the flame supplied, and it would melt a hole in the lid.

Stupidest shit I have heard on here all week.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19160517 - 11/19/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

lol I love how it turned into this


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Re: mini mono question [Re: frenchfries]
    #19160527 - 11/19/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

me too,

I think it will be pretty obvious for any one who is reading or will find it in the future to plainly see what the truth is.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19160612 - 11/19/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

Aero said:
did u try it? put a candle on the sub then close the whole monotub.




Quote:

Aero said:
try it, see how long the candle burns, if it goes off ealry u delete your profile from shroomery




Mushrooms don't even make enough co2 to snuf a flame anyway. The monotub would be creating enough air current to keep the flame supplied, and it would melt a hole in the lid.

Stupidest shit I have heard on here all week.




try it yourself


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19160709 - 11/19/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Stupidest shit I have heard on here all week.




Give him a chance, it's only Tuesday.  :biggrin:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Darph_Bobo]
    #19160718 - 11/19/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if so, we wouldnt need FAE at all in monotubs honey


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160733 - 11/19/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
if so, we wouldnt need FAE at all in monotubs honey



:lolwut:

the evaporation of moisture off of the substrate is "the pinning trigger"
FAE gives you this.

You should really stop now. It's like watching a kid dig themself into a hole with a lie.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19160804 - 11/19/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I rarely start new threads anymore, but the same questions and misunderstandings seem to keep popping up regarding what makes our fungi enter the pinning stage. The reply below is one I posted in another thread earlier, so I'll take the liberty of cutting and pasting it here for those who would otherwise miss it. Hopefully it will stimulate some more research and discussion on everyone's part and clear up a few things. Here it is:

LIGHT IS NOT THE MAJOR PINNING TRIGGER FOR MUSHROOMS!

In fact, light isn't even the major factor in which direction mushrooms grow. Wind or other air currents is the first. Light is the second, then finally gravity is the third.

As for pinning, full colonization of the substrate is the most important pinning trigger. If there are contaminants present in a substrate, the mushroom mycelium generally stops growing when it contacts them. This represents full colonization because the mycelium has hit a natural barrier, and often pins begin to develop, whether light is present or not.

The second most important pinning trigger is an increase in air exchange, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels that occurs simultaneously. When you uncover a tray to look at it, you allow the CO2 to escape and be replaced by fresh air. THIS is a pinning trigger, even if you do it in the dark.

Third, which goes along with second, is a steady rate of evaporation of moisture from the substrate or casing layer. In the artifical environment of a small tray, we must mist to keep the substrate or casing from drying out, but we also must allow that moisture to evaporate off between mistings.

Fourth, when the above three triggers are active, light becomes a pinning/growth initiation factor.

If one waits too long to apply the casing layer, or the other factors listed above are in effect prior to light OR the casing layer being applied, primordia will begin to form, which will then push up through to the surface, whether or not it has been fully or even partially colonized. By the same token, if light is applied and the other, more important factors have not been met, primordia will NOT form.

This is why experienced growers, such as commercial spawn producers who make their entire living incubating mushroom mycelium, make absolutely NO effort to incubate in the dark. It isn't necessary. People will have much more success in the hobby when they understand that.
RR


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160817 - 11/19/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You can't just go and find one RR quote.

His ideas and knowledge have changed over time.

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

or do I want high levels of CO2 to initiat pinning?




High CO2 does NOT result in pins forming.  It prevents them.  Fresh air after full colonization is reached, is the number 1 pinning trigger.
RR




If you know the ideas RR has presented over a broad spectrum of time, and are fully versed in his knowledge you'll know how to cite him appropriately. Anyone can go find 6 year old info that will agree with whatever you want to say. See I'll do it.

So are we preventing pins since "co2 floats to the bottom" of a monotub?....

I'm done here. The discussion speaks for itself.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (11/19/13 05:33 PM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19160831 - 11/19/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

what are u talking about????
ive been saying co2 stays at the bottom of the box this its how its started.

now when i quote rr saying that oxigen promotes pinning u say im worng


wtf is wrong with you people?? cant you read??

bodhisatta?? wtf man are u dumb ?


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160836 - 11/19/13 05:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160842 - 11/19/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So are we preventing pins since "co2 floats to the bottom" of a monotub?....


High CO2 does NOT result in pins forming.  It prevents them.  Fresh air after full colonization is reached, is the number 1 pinning trigger.
RR


The second most important pinning trigger is an increase in air exchange, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels that occurs simultaneously. When you uncover a tray to look at it, you allow the CO2 to escape and be replaced by fresh air. THIS is a pinning trigger, even if you do it in the dark.

read these, i hope u can understand it

man u must be the dumbest around here


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160854 - 11/19/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I was using sarcasm since you seem to believe co2 floats to the bottom. Now you think FAE is the big pinning trigger even though two posts ago you highlighted full colonization of the substrate as the major trigger. If FAE takes all that CO2 at the bottom out(which you think, But it really is just pushing air out in general to promote evaporation off the substrate) then a candle would never go out since the FAE is keeping the co2 off the bottom. What are you going to try to say now?


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19160887 - 11/19/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The second most important pinning trigger is an increase in air exchange, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels that occurs simultaneously. When you uncover a tray to look at it, you allow the CO2 to escape and be replaced by fresh air. THIS is a pinning trigger, even if you do it in the dark.


this is what i highlighted, the full colonization along with the oxigen is the first two factors


i told u already, do a candle test on a substrate in your monotub


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160906 - 11/19/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Mushrooms with long stalks opening up small. Excessive Carbon Dioxide levels in the growing room and/or a crowded microclimate around the mushrooms that the CO2 can't escape from.


http://www.americanmushroom.org/disorders-p-58.html


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160933 - 11/19/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The only time your candle test would work is during consolidation when you have the holes taped up and only gas exchange is allowed to happen. You'll get a buildup of CO2 but everyone knows that because the lid is flipping closed and the holes are taped up.

You're clinging to every little article and quote you can find to justify your inability to take advice and later constructive criticism. All the while people with real experience and people like RR who have tested fruiting chambers with CO2 meters more recently than 7 years ago(like your quotes) have brought forth new information.

I can go find a website that says a piece of twisted foil in my air intake to my cars engine will increase my fuel mileage, does that mean it's true?


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160936 - 11/19/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Remember, fungi breathe oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide, just as humans do; the mushroom cell needs and uses the same basic building blocks.


same thing again, co2 build up in the monotub prevents growth, or in earlier stage the pinning


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160962 - 11/19/13 06:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You want high co2 during the intial growth period,

thats why we want our monos airtight, and the holes taped off,

aswell as preventing fae which will induce fruiting.

:popcorn:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160964 - 11/19/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
Mushrooms with long stalks opening up small. Excessive Carbon Dioxide levels in the growing room and/or a crowded microclimate around the mushrooms that the CO2 can't escape from.


http://www.americanmushroom.org/disorders-p-58.html




This happens when your fruiting chamber doesn't have enough holes.
Making holes doesn't let the CO2 pour out though.
The co2 is mixed with the air. In a poorly designed box or fruiting chamber the CO2 mixes with the air and then the concentration of co2 goes up as the positive pressure of the substrate making co2 pushes out air and fills the box with co2 that's not able to diffuse effectively.


Quote:

Aero said:
Remember, fungi breathe oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide, just as humans do; the mushroom cell needs and uses the same basic building blocks.


same thing again, co2 build up in the monotub prevents growth, or in earlier stage the pinning




no shit. That's why monotubs have holes in them during fruiting conditions.

In a monotub during fruiting conditions there's constant FAE. The air inside the tub is being exchanges so rapidly that it's completely mixed air going in and coming out. No co2 build up no co2 pouring out of bottom holes etc... A monotub is just to get a FAE environment with RH. Your countertop has amazing FAE but no RH so you need to build a box that gives high RH well if you have high RH you probably don't have good FAE. The fruiting chambers are cleverly devised so you get FAE while maintaining high RH.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (11/19/13 06:06 PM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19160974 - 11/19/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hey bro did you even know there's two phases to a monotub? Consolidation then fruiting.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160975 - 11/19/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

noone is talking about consolidation, i know that u need the them covered during that period


what im saying is, co2 does build up in the monotub no matter what, mushroom takes oxigen and releases co2 during fruiting
co2-s molecular weight is heavier than the air, and oxigen therefor put the wholes on the level of the sub



this is all im saying
and everybody sad im stupid..


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19160994 - 11/19/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161010 - 11/19/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
what im saying is, co2 does build up in the monotub no matter what



During colonization, yes....a colonizing monotub can reach 20,000 ppm.

During fruiting, no, because it is constantly being pushed out by all the FAE.

When fruiting the co2 levels drop to well below 2000 ppm.

Quote:

Aero said:
co2-s molecular weight is heavier than the air, and oxigen therefor put the wholes on the level of the sub



Co2 is heavier than air, you are right about that, but only by a fraction.

And any small current will mix the 2 together....and there will always be currents in a fruiting chamber...so it will always be mixed together....and since these currents rise, so will the co2.

Yes, I un-ignored you.


Edited by PussyFart (11/19/13 06:08 PM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19161014 - 11/19/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

Aero said:
what im saying is, co2 does build up in the monotub no matter what



During colonization, yes....a colonizing monotub can reach 20,000 ppm.

During fruiting, no, because it is constantly being pushed out by all the FAE.

When fruiting the co2 levels drop to well below 2000 ppm.

Quote:

Aero said:
co2-s molecular weight is heavier than the air, and oxigen therefor put the wholes on the level of the sub



Co2 is heavier than air, you are right about that, but only by a fraction.

And any small current will mix the 2 together....and there will always be currents in a fruiting chamber...so it will always be mixed together....and since these currents rise, so will the co2.

Yes, I un-ignored you.




glad you came back to see the shit show.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161027 - 11/19/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
noone is talking about consolidation, i know that u need the them covered during that period


what im saying is, co2 does build up in the monotub no matter what, mushroom takes oxigen and releases co2 during fruiting
co2-s molecular weight is heavier than the air, and oxigen therefor put the wholes on the level of the sub



this is all im saying
and everybody sad im stupid..




Only stupid if you don't learn.

During fruiting the CO2 does not blanket the sub. The co2 would inhibit pinning as we found out a page ago. What fucking use would it be if there was a blanket of co2 on the substrate during fruiting. We would build the monotub differently then. The monotub is giving FAE during fruiting which means there's mixed air going in and mixed air going out no separate layers. If your candle test works in a monotub put into fruiting conditions you built it wrong, and probably wont see good pining performance.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19161040 - 11/19/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

the monotubs i made werent the shotgun ones

i put the wholes stuffed with polyfil right at the same level with the substrate. and give a good fae 4-5 times a day


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161048 - 11/19/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
and everybody sad im stupid..





Quote:

Aero said:
guys u are really dumb






:astonishedmustache:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161054 - 11/19/13 06:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if u talking about the SGFC then of course, there is always air movement that can stir up the air, and mix up the oxigen and co2


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161063 - 11/19/13 06:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
the monotubs i made werent the shotgun ones

i put the wholes stuffed with polyfil right at the same level with the substrate. and give a good fae 4-5 times a day



We do not fan for FAE, we fan only after misting, to promote evaporation of the water we just misted.

The entire point of stuffing the holes with polyfill is so the tub gets CONSTANT FAE....Monotubs should be set and forget(fully automated).


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161072 - 11/19/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
if u talking about the SGFC then of course, there is always air movement that can stir up the air, and mix up the oxigen and co2



There is always heat, humidity, currents in a monotub.... and FAE currents when fruiting.....

It's the same principal....


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161074 - 11/19/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

but in a monotub like this where is the air movement?
co2 builds up right at the level of the sub, like a blanket as bodhisatta put it.
and this is why its essential to place the holes at that level...



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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161107 - 11/19/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161127 - 11/19/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
but in a monotub like this where is the air movement?



It comes thru the holes you stuffed with polyfill.

You should also have a fan oscillating in the same room....isn't it obvious where it comes from?

What do you think the point of untaping the holes and stuffing them with polyfill is?

Then, when you see all the walls have condensation on them, except for distinct rings of dryness around the holes...this lets you know that air is moving.....

Quote:

Aero said:
co2 builds up right at the level of the sub, like a blanket as bodhisatta put it.



No, it does not.....do you not even consider heat and humidity as currents that move?

Where does the heat from the substrate go? Does get trapped under the co2 that supposedly collects at the bottom?

Or does it sneak past the co2 like a ninja?

Quote:

Aero said:
and this is why its essential to place the holes at that level...





No, the holes are essential for proper airflow....

I can even see the rings of dryness in this shitty picture....those tubs are getting FAE....there is moving air inside the tub....you just proved it.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161137 - 11/19/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
check these
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18098068#18098068

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15380201#15380201



Stop quoting random threads by random people....start listening to reason and logic....

Find me some quotes from a few TCs agreeing that co2 falls out the bottom holes and I will be a believer....but that just aint gonna happen.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19161164 - 11/19/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

man but this is what i said at the first place
to put the holes on the level of the sub to get rid of the co2 cause its heavier,
i understand its hot and there is higher molecular movement because of the heat, and the evaporation, but the co2 is still there and even if its moving it will tend to stay low no matter what, its still heavier almost double the molecular weight then the air

holes low --->less co2----> better fae

end of story


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161190 - 11/19/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
man but this is what i said at the first place
to put the holes on the level of the sub to get rid of the co2 cause its heavier,



Co2 being heavier than air is not the reason for the holes at substrate level....beleive what you want from here on out, as I do not care anymore.

Co2 mixes with the air that gets pushed out the bottom.....co2 does not sink and fall in a tub that gets constant airflow, and that is producing heat and humidity currents....

Quote:

Aero said:
i understand its hot and there is higher molecular movement because of the heat, and the evaporation, but the co2 is still there and even if its moving it will tend to stay low no matter what, its still heavier almost double the molecular weight then the air

holes low --->less co2----> better fae



When you give the tub constant FAE, no matter where the holes are located, the co2 levels will be low.....

Constant FAE ----> low co2


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19161216 - 11/19/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yea if u can afford to give constant fae..

when u are at work its essential imo to have them placed right at the bottom


Constant FAE ----> low co2





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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161249 - 11/19/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well monotubs stuffed with polyfill always get constant FAE.

So we seem to be on the right page now....


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19161265 - 11/19/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yea, finally  :plutonic:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161275 - 11/19/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I know right....I mean it took 5 pages for you to get it.....this was explained to you in the first few replies.....


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #19161559 - 11/19/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This might be my favorite thread yet

Continue boys, continue.

:fuckinawesome:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19161569 - 11/19/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
the monotubs i made werent the shotgun ones

i put the wholes stuffed with polyfil right at the same level with the substrate. and give a good fae 4-5 times a day




Saying you fan for FAE invalidates everything you said for the last few pages. This conjecture you formulated about how FAE works is built on false information. You can't fan for FAE that's not how it works.

FAE is not from fanning it's from how the monotub is built. If you had to fan for FAE you would have to do it 4-5 times an hour. It's recommended to use a small fan with monotubs; counter-likewise it's advisable not to use a fan at all with a SGFC because the way it's built provides FAE.

Air currents move air through the top loose holes and push it out the bottom holes. It's moving mixed air in and mixed air out not a "co2 blanket" because there is no co2 blanket. A candle would not go out it would flourish.

Quote:

Aero said:
but in a monotub like this where is the air movement?
co2 builds up right at the level of the sub, like a blanket as bodhisatta put it.
and this is why its essential to place the holes at that level...






Place your holes above the level of the substrate and it will still work. It's just the best place to use them because it's as far away from the top holes as you can get, and the top holes go on the sides so that the fan can blow air into them.

You can go dig up old monotub threads from when they were being perfected and find out for yourself that there's no co2 layer rubbish going on it's just moving fresh air(mixed gas air) through the top and out the bottom. I suppose they still work in the absence of a fan by having the heat of the substrate and from the lights making currents happen but a fan is much more reliable with a tuned in monotub. Dial that shit in.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19161583 - 11/19/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Air currents move air through the top loose holes and push it out the bottom holes.




:smbfacepalm:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19162674 - 11/19/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JMcDoogle said:
Quote:

Air currents move air through the top loose holes and push it out the bottom holes.




:smbfacepalm:




Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
This is part of my series on how I get things done. I hope it helps!

I notice a lot of folks never fully dial in their monotubs. This is a pretty simple process. A dialed in monotub does not need to be misted or fanned on the first flush, nor does it need bubble wrap or wax paper or any kind of casing layer. On average, a 66qt monotub with a 3" deep substrate should yield between 6-8oz dry for the first flush (though crap genetics can result in reduced yields)

When your substrate is fully colonized, it is time to fruit. Some people prefer to wait for a few pins, but i find this only adds more aborts to my first flush. My yields are better when fruited at 100% as well.

The key to a successful mono is passive FAE. You want to start by stuffing your polyfill properly.

For the bottom holes on your mono, it's simple: you'll want to stuff them very tightly to keep fresh air flowing in the top and out the bottom.

For the top holes, you want very loose polyfill.

Here's a quick pictorial on how I make perfect little puffballs for the top holes of my monos. It allows for good FAE and retains tons of humidity:

Spread a puffball flat on your palm, about a half inch thick at most.


Fold it in half.


Gently roll into a ball that is a bit larger than the hole itself. Use little or no pressure when rolling the ball between your hands. Should end up looking like this:


Gently insert it into the tub, don't stuff it in or anything, just push it through so it's almost falling out.



You will want to run a fan in the room. make sure it is stationary and facing near but not directly at the monotub(s). You do not want to feel any direct wind from the fan itself blowing on your tub(s). :thumbup:

Run the fan on low or medium. A good indicator of good FAE is a line of evaporation running down one or both sides of the tub from the top holes. The rest of the walls should be covered in condensation, except for small rings around the bottom holes.



If the walls dry up during the first flush, adjust your poly in the top holes and make sure your fan is not too close to the tubs. Mist the walls if they've dried up, do not mist the substrate however.

This should give you a great first flush in your monotubs :thumbup:

Here's a few examples of my own personal monotubs I've fruited using this method, these are just coir/verm and gypsum:


:cheers:





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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19162830 - 11/19/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

JMcDoogle said:
Quote:

Air currents move air through the top loose holes and push it out the bottom holes.




:smbfacepalm:




Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
This is part of my series on how I get things done. I hope it helps!

I notice a lot of folks never fully dial in their monotubs. This is a pretty simple process. A dialed in monotub does not need to be misted or fanned on the first flush, nor does it need bubble wrap or wax paper or any kind of casing layer. On average, a 66qt monotub with a 3" deep substrate should yield between 6-8oz dry for the first flush (though crap genetics can result in reduced yields)

When your substrate is fully colonized, it is time to fruit. Some people prefer to wait for a few pins, but i find this only adds more aborts to my first flush. My yields are better when fruited at 100% as well.

The key to a successful mono is passive FAE. You want to start by stuffing your polyfill properly.

For the bottom holes on your mono, it's simple: you'll want to stuff them very tightly to keep fresh air flowing in the top and out the bottom.

For the top holes, you want very loose polyfill.

Here's a quick pictorial on how I make perfect little puffballs for the top holes of my monos. It allows for good FAE and retains tons of humidity:

Spread a puffball flat on your palm, about a half inch thick at most.


Fold it in half.


Gently roll into a ball that is a bit larger than the hole itself. Use little or no pressure when rolling the ball between your hands. Should end up looking like this:


Gently insert it into the tub, don't stuff it in or anything, just push it through so it's almost falling out.



You will want to run a fan in the room. make sure it is stationary and facing near but not directly at the monotub(s). You do not want to feel any direct wind from the fan itself blowing on your tub(s). :thumbup:

Run the fan on low or medium. A good indicator of good FAE is a line of evaporation running down one or both sides of the tub from the top holes. The rest of the walls should be covered in condensation, except for small rings around the bottom holes.



If the walls dry up during the first flush, adjust your poly in the top holes and make sure your fan is not too close to the tubs. Mist the walls if they've dried up, do not mist the substrate however.

This should give you a great first flush in your monotubs :thumbup:

Here's a few examples of my own personal monotubs I've fruited using this method, these are just coir/verm and gypsum:


:cheers:









Thanks for all that information, I wasnt saying that you were wrong.

If I thought you were wrong I would've said that.

I did the mario thing because I thought this was finished,

I didnt want it to get started again lol.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19163165 - 11/20/13 12:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

HAHAHA  :goodburger:
lots of information shared here.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: silverstem]
    #19163967 - 11/20/13 08:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

but in a monotub like this where is the air movement?
co2 builds up right at the level of the sub, like a blanket as bodhisatta put it.
and this is why its essential to place the holes at that level...



Heat. The CO2 produced by the mycelium rises with the rest of the air and in process spreads throughout the chamber. It happens even in still air because gas molecules are always rapidly moving, that's why they're gases. That's not to say density has absolutely no effect but at 1g you couldn't even measure the effect. The effect on it's tendency to diffuse rather than settle that is. If it can't diffuse quickly like when it's very concentrated yeah you'll see it settle temporarily but we're talking very low concentrations.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Kizzle]
    #19164025 - 11/20/13 08:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

think notahacker explained this 3 pages back or something.
both heat and moist air rises. along with the co2 that's mixed in there.

aero is just diggin' that hole deeper and deeper...


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Re: mini mono question [Re: spacechildo]
    #19164065 - 11/20/13 09:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i see now i stepped into the void

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19075486

sorry about that, i thought it stays closer to the bottom, as in a regular monotub (not shotgun) there are no holes on top lid so there is no exhaust there..

learning learning


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
    #19164120 - 11/20/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I can't find the post by RR but he measured and the highest concentrations were around the top. The warmth of the myc causing air to rise pulling fresh air in the bottom. The chimey effect. His bunker grow thing has 2 pipes coming out the top. one taller one painted black to pull/push/insert technical term the air out. there's some ants or termites that build their house the same. one exit higher than the other and it causes a draft. RR'S post has been quoted several times by several people. It was a sgfc I believe.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Smeagol]
    #19164132 - 11/20/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smeagol said:
I can't find the post by RR but he measured and the highest concentrations were around the top. The warmth of the myc causing air to rise pulling fresh air in the bottom. The chimey effect. His bunker grow thing has 2 pipes coming out the top. one taller one painted black to pull/push/insert technical term the air out. there's some ants or termites that build their house the same. one exit higher than the other and it causes a draft. RR'S post has been quoted several times by several people. It was a sgfc I believe.




im sure it works very well with a SGFC, im still not convinced that its the same with a basic monotub with polifyl stuffed holes :rolleyes:


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero] * 1
    #19164186 - 11/20/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's not....air flows in the opposite direction in a monotub, if properly dialed in..

RR has admitted to never using a monotub before so....


Edited by PussyFart (11/20/13 09:44 AM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart] * 1
    #19164385 - 11/20/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I put a tea candle in my mini mino. The smoke passes by the top holes with a little bit of disturbance. It is sucked in the bottom hole I pulled the polyfil from to the point my phone cam can't even see it. What part of a mono would cause it to work the opposite of a sgfc, houses, insect holes and everything else I can think of? Air currents in the room? The bottom holes are exposed to them to just like a house. I'm not experienced enough to argue cultivation but warm air goes up. The warm air rising would create a difference in pressure making a vacuum pulling fresh air in the bottom. Openings are at the top of greenhouses to vent hot air. roofs have vents at the top to let warm air escape and pull in cool air from the bottom near the gutters/soffit vents. In our 150 year old farm house if you opened all the windows in the evening on a calm day you could feel a slight breeze coming in the bottom windows. My dad showed me so I knew why to not blow a fan in my window. I could smoke 1 hitters in front of it. In my farm house now the plastic on the bottom windows bows in. The top windows look vacuum sealed. Toilets flush because the water causes a positive pressure in the bowl and a vacuum in the pipe. a fan blowing in a room doesnt focus on the top holes. I don't see how myc generating heat in a semi contained environment would somehow work opposite in monos.




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Edited by Smeagol (11/20/13 10:38 AM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: mini mono question [Re: Smeagol] * 1
    #19164408 - 11/20/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Notice I said "If properly dialed in"....In a monotub, when you have the bottom holes stuffed tightly, and the top holes stuffed loosely, air can easily pass in thru the top holes, which forces the air in the tub out the bottom holes.

Air will always enter in the path of least resistance.....and since we should have a fan oscillating in the room with the monotubs, air is constantly being pushed into the top holes.....so the remaining air has no choice but to come out the bottom.


Edited by PussyFart (11/20/13 10:37 AM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Smeagol] * 1
    #19164415 - 11/20/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So are we all on the same page now?

*Does everyone realize there's no blanket of co2 in monotub or SGFC for that matter. The bottom holes do not expel co2 they expel mixed air and fresh air comes in the top holes if stuffed properly. This is passive FAE. Fanning is not FAE or a substitute for FAE.*

If we could have you sign and date.

You'll receive a formal written warning if you say co2 exits bottom holes again.

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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart] * 1
    #19164423 - 11/20/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

love RRs quote if it settles we would all be dead hahahahhaa


Cant say I didnt think that at first though


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Kalypto]
    #19164707 - 11/20/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My farm house has a draft that blows through the attic. It is the least sealed and air flows around the house just like air would a mono or anything else in a room with a fan. I can look outside in places and see the yard below. Snow has blown/ been sucked in last year. I do not feel a draft coming in under the attic door. If I open it and let go it will be sucked closed and actually slam shut. The bedroom door for than rokm will pull open/in if not latched. The leaky double basement door and windows with lath and plastic still have obvious breezes coming in around crappy frames. Electrical outlets on the first floor have breezes coming in them. cd air blows in the spaces between the window frame and trim. Things follow the path of least resistance. Not enter it. I wish I had or someone had an IR camera to take photos. I can not believe a mono tub somehow works the exact opposit of everything else when it comes to the chimney and stacking effect.


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Re: mini mono question [Re: Smeagol]
    #19164739 - 11/20/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smeagol said:
My farm house has a draft that blows through the attic. It is the least sealed and air flows around the house just like air would a mono or anything else in a room with a fan. I can look outside in places and see the yard below. Snow has blown/ been sucked in last year. I do not feel a draft coming in under the attic door. If I open it and let go it will be sucked closed and actually slam shut. The bedroom door for than rokm will pull open/in if not latched. The leaky double basement door and windows with lath and plastic still have obvious breezes coming in around crappy frames. Electrical outlets on the first floor have breezes coming in them. cd air blows in the spaces between the window frame and trim. Things follow the path of least resistance. Not enter it. I wish I had or someone had an IR camera to take photos. I can not believe a mono tub somehow works the exact opposit of everything else when it comes to the chimney and stacking effect.




that explains how it works. The inside of your house is to a monotub as the outside is to the inside of your home.  The wind blows on your house and air comes in where it can. Obviously your house is not a balloon so in some places you'll have air being pushed out. The spots where it happens will change as the wind blows. But obviously some of your house will have tighter and looser holes for the air to go through. The inside of your house may as well be the outside as far as the monotub is concerned because it sees air currents from the home and acts the same way.

You try to run a SGFC with no/minimal currents so that it can because of the perlite, holes, and light.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (11/20/13 11:36 AM)


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
    #21380713 - 03/08/15 10:05 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I'm new here... but thanks for all the great information!


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Re: mini mono question [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21380752 - 03/08/15 10:14 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

True.


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