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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
#19161107 - 11/19/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
#19161127 - 11/19/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: but in a monotub like this where is the air movement?
It comes thru the holes you stuffed with polyfill.
You should also have a fan oscillating in the same room....isn't it obvious where it comes from?
What do you think the point of untaping the holes and stuffing them with polyfill is?
Then, when you see all the walls have condensation on them, except for distinct rings of dryness around the holes...this lets you know that air is moving.....
Quote:
Aero said: co2 builds up right at the level of the sub, like a blanket as bodhisatta put it.
No, it does not.....do you not even consider heat and humidity as currents that move?
Where does the heat from the substrate go? Does get trapped under the co2 that supposedly collects at the bottom?
Or does it sneak past the co2 like a ninja?
Quote:
Aero said: and this is why its essential to place the holes at that level...

No, the holes are essential for proper airflow....
I can even see the rings of dryness in this shitty picture....those tubs are getting FAE....there is moving air inside the tub....you just proved it.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
#19161137 - 11/19/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: check these http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18098068#18098068
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15380201#15380201
Stop quoting random threads by random people....start listening to reason and logic....
Find me some quotes from a few TCs agreeing that co2 falls out the bottom holes and I will be a believer....but that just aint gonna happen.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Aero
Orea


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
#19161164 - 11/19/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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man but this is what i said at the first place to put the holes on the level of the sub to get rid of the co2 cause its heavier, i understand its hot and there is higher molecular movement because of the heat, and the evaporation, but the co2 is still there and even if its moving it will tend to stay low no matter what, its still heavier almost double the molecular weight then the air
holes low --->less co2----> better fae
end of story
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PussyFart
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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
#19161190 - 11/19/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: man but this is what i said at the first place to put the holes on the level of the sub to get rid of the co2 cause its heavier,
Co2 being heavier than air is not the reason for the holes at substrate level....beleive what you want from here on out, as I do not care anymore.
Co2 mixes with the air that gets pushed out the bottom.....co2 does not sink and fall in a tub that gets constant airflow, and that is producing heat and humidity currents....
Quote:
Aero said: i understand its hot and there is higher molecular movement because of the heat, and the evaporation, but the co2 is still there and even if its moving it will tend to stay low no matter what, its still heavier almost double the molecular weight then the air
holes low --->less co2----> better fae
When you give the tub constant FAE, no matter where the holes are located, the co2 levels will be low.....
Constant FAE ----> low co2
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Aero
Orea


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
#19161216 - 11/19/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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yea if u can afford to give constant fae..
when u are at work its essential imo to have them placed right at the bottom
Constant FAE ----> low co2

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PussyFart
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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
#19161249 - 11/19/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well monotubs stuffed with polyfill always get constant FAE.
So we seem to be on the right page now....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Aero
Orea


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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
#19161265 - 11/19/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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yea, finally
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
#19161275 - 11/19/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I know right....I mean it took 5 pages for you to get it.....this was explained to you in the first few replies.....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
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Re: mini mono question [Re: PussyFart]
#19161559 - 11/19/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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This might be my favorite thread yet
Continue boys, continue.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
#19161569 - 11/19/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: the monotubs i made werent the shotgun ones
i put the wholes stuffed with polyfil right at the same level with the substrate. and give a good fae 4-5 times a day
Saying you fan for FAE invalidates everything you said for the last few pages. This conjecture you formulated about how FAE works is built on false information. You can't fan for FAE that's not how it works.
FAE is not from fanning it's from how the monotub is built. If you had to fan for FAE you would have to do it 4-5 times an hour. It's recommended to use a small fan with monotubs; counter-likewise it's advisable not to use a fan at all with a SGFC because the way it's built provides FAE.
Air currents move air through the top loose holes and push it out the bottom holes. It's moving mixed air in and mixed air out not a "co2 blanket" because there is no co2 blanket. A candle would not go out it would flourish.
Quote:
Aero said: but in a monotub like this where is the air movement? co2 builds up right at the level of the sub, like a blanket as bodhisatta put it. and this is why its essential to place the holes at that level...

Place your holes above the level of the substrate and it will still work. It's just the best place to use them because it's as far away from the top holes as you can get, and the top holes go on the sides so that the fan can blow air into them.
You can go dig up old monotub threads from when they were being perfected and find out for yourself that there's no co2 layer rubbish going on it's just moving fresh air(mixed gas air) through the top and out the bottom. I suppose they still work in the absence of a fan by having the heat of the substrate and from the lights making currents happen but a fan is much more reliable with a tuned in monotub. Dial that shit in.
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


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Quote:
Air currents move air through the top loose holes and push it out the bottom holes.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: mini mono question [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19162674 - 11/19/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JMcDoogle said:
Quote:
Air currents move air through the top loose holes and push it out the bottom holes.

Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: This is part of my series on how I get things done. I hope it helps!
I notice a lot of folks never fully dial in their monotubs. This is a pretty simple process. A dialed in monotub does not need to be misted or fanned on the first flush, nor does it need bubble wrap or wax paper or any kind of casing layer. On average, a 66qt monotub with a 3" deep substrate should yield between 6-8oz dry for the first flush (though crap genetics can result in reduced yields)
When your substrate is fully colonized, it is time to fruit. Some people prefer to wait for a few pins, but i find this only adds more aborts to my first flush. My yields are better when fruited at 100% as well.
The key to a successful mono is passive FAE. You want to start by stuffing your polyfill properly.
For the bottom holes on your mono, it's simple: you'll want to stuff them very tightly to keep fresh air flowing in the top and out the bottom.
For the top holes, you want very loose polyfill.
Here's a quick pictorial on how I make perfect little puffballs for the top holes of my monos. It allows for good FAE and retains tons of humidity:
Spread a puffball flat on your palm, about a half inch thick at most.

Fold it in half.

Gently roll into a ball that is a bit larger than the hole itself. Use little or no pressure when rolling the ball between your hands. Should end up looking like this:

Gently insert it into the tub, don't stuff it in or anything, just push it through so it's almost falling out.

You will want to run a fan in the room. make sure it is stationary and facing near but not directly at the monotub(s). You do not want to feel any direct wind from the fan itself blowing on your tub(s). 
Run the fan on low or medium. A good indicator of good FAE is a line of evaporation running down one or both sides of the tub from the top holes. The rest of the walls should be covered in condensation, except for small rings around the bottom holes.

If the walls dry up during the first flush, adjust your poly in the top holes and make sure your fan is not too close to the tubs. Mist the walls if they've dried up, do not mist the substrate however.
This should give you a great first flush in your monotubs 
Here's a few examples of my own personal monotubs I've fruited using this method, these are just coir/verm and gypsum:

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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
Loc: Nunavut
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
JMcDoogle said:
Quote:
Air currents move air through the top loose holes and push it out the bottom holes.

Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: This is part of my series on how I get things done. I hope it helps!
I notice a lot of folks never fully dial in their monotubs. This is a pretty simple process. A dialed in monotub does not need to be misted or fanned on the first flush, nor does it need bubble wrap or wax paper or any kind of casing layer. On average, a 66qt monotub with a 3" deep substrate should yield between 6-8oz dry for the first flush (though crap genetics can result in reduced yields)
When your substrate is fully colonized, it is time to fruit. Some people prefer to wait for a few pins, but i find this only adds more aborts to my first flush. My yields are better when fruited at 100% as well.
The key to a successful mono is passive FAE. You want to start by stuffing your polyfill properly.
For the bottom holes on your mono, it's simple: you'll want to stuff them very tightly to keep fresh air flowing in the top and out the bottom.
For the top holes, you want very loose polyfill.
Here's a quick pictorial on how I make perfect little puffballs for the top holes of my monos. It allows for good FAE and retains tons of humidity:
Spread a puffball flat on your palm, about a half inch thick at most.

Fold it in half.

Gently roll into a ball that is a bit larger than the hole itself. Use little or no pressure when rolling the ball between your hands. Should end up looking like this:

Gently insert it into the tub, don't stuff it in or anything, just push it through so it's almost falling out.

You will want to run a fan in the room. make sure it is stationary and facing near but not directly at the monotub(s). You do not want to feel any direct wind from the fan itself blowing on your tub(s). 
Run the fan on low or medium. A good indicator of good FAE is a line of evaporation running down one or both sides of the tub from the top holes. The rest of the walls should be covered in condensation, except for small rings around the bottom holes.

If the walls dry up during the first flush, adjust your poly in the top holes and make sure your fan is not too close to the tubs. Mist the walls if they've dried up, do not mist the substrate however.
This should give you a great first flush in your monotubs 
Here's a few examples of my own personal monotubs I've fruited using this method, these are just coir/verm and gypsum:

Thanks for all that information, I wasnt saying that you were wrong.
If I thought you were wrong I would've said that.
I did the mario thing because I thought this was finished,
I didnt want it to get started again lol.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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silverstem
Caps & Stems



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Re: mini mono question [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19163165 - 11/20/13 12:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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HAHAHA  lots of information shared here.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Quote:
but in a monotub like this where is the air movement? co2 builds up right at the level of the sub, like a blanket as bodhisatta put it. and this is why its essential to place the holes at that level...
Heat. The CO2 produced by the mycelium rises with the rest of the air and in process spreads throughout the chamber. It happens even in still air because gas molecules are always rapidly moving, that's why they're gases. That's not to say density has absolutely no effect but at 1g you couldn't even measure the effect. The effect on it's tendency to diffuse rather than settle that is. If it can't diffuse quickly like when it's very concentrated yeah you'll see it settle temporarily but we're talking very low concentrations.
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Edited by Kizzle (11/20/13 08:44 AM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



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Re: mini mono question [Re: Kizzle]
#19164025 - 11/20/13 08:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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think notahacker explained this 3 pages back or something. both heat and moist air rises. along with the co2 that's mixed in there.
aero is just diggin' that hole deeper and deeper...
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Aero
Orea


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i see now i stepped into the void
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19075486
sorry about that, i thought it stays closer to the bottom, as in a regular monotub (not shotgun) there are no holes on top lid so there is no exhaust there..
learning learning
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Smeagol
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Registered: 04/14/13
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Re: mini mono question [Re: Aero]
#19164120 - 11/20/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I can't find the post by RR but he measured and the highest concentrations were around the top. The warmth of the myc causing air to rise pulling fresh air in the bottom. The chimey effect. His bunker grow thing has 2 pipes coming out the top. one taller one painted black to pull/push/insert technical term the air out. there's some ants or termites that build their house the same. one exit higher than the other and it causes a draft. RR'S post has been quoted several times by several people. It was a sgfc I believe.
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Aero
Orea


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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: mini mono question [Re: Smeagol]
#19164132 - 11/20/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smeagol said: I can't find the post by RR but he measured and the highest concentrations were around the top. The warmth of the myc causing air to rise pulling fresh air in the bottom. The chimey effect. His bunker grow thing has 2 pipes coming out the top. one taller one painted black to pull/push/insert technical term the air out. there's some ants or termites that build their house the same. one exit higher than the other and it causes a draft. RR'S post has been quoted several times by several people. It was a sgfc I believe.
im sure it works very well with a SGFC, im still not convinced that its the same with a basic monotub with polifyl stuffed holes
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