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InvisibleEdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19155028 - 11/18/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

How do people justify arresting people over petty offences while putting innocent civilian lives at risk?

Also it is laughable how people see this in strictly black and white terms and dont have the cognitive ability to see between the two.

Using a timely example of the officer opening fire on a van.

Irregardless of the children in the vehicle, the officer opened fire on a fleeing petty crime suspect. An identification (personal, vehicle) was established, an arrest could have easily been made to arrest said suspect at a later time, without the need for firearms. The officer placed the lives of any suspect near by at risk.

You can all say that the suspect put lives in danger by choosing to flee. However, the officer made the decision to attempt to take the life of the suspect by firing his pistol.



Clearly the officer is of poor aim, as he didnt accomplish what he set out to by firing his weapon, so a poorly aimed shot could have easily harmed or killed a civilian.

But what I find most interesting, is how people trust the judgment of a police officer in the heat of the moment.

Who here trusts a LEO to make the proper decision in heat of the moment scenarios? I know I dont.

Officers should respond to violence with appropriate force, however, fleeing a traffic stop and other small time crimes do not justify the use of lethal force.

So you can claim the criminal put the lives at risk, but it is the individual officers choice to escalate the situation by using a fire arm, or continuing pursuit despite the risk to the public.

You guys who support pursuit of petty criminals despite the risk to the public, must have a lot of trust in LEO's. So anyone who supports pursuit despite the danger to the public, please tell me why you have placed so much confidence and trust in the hands of LEO's.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: EdibleStereos]
    #19155053 - 11/18/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

there should be amendment; in which you should be shot and killed for misdemeanor.

see, this would clear up the confusion in America.


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Shroomism]
    #19155083 - 11/18/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
and you are surprised ?



Unfortunately no, it's pretty sad that stuff like this is so common-place that it doesn't even really surprise me...


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
    #19155118 - 11/18/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

it's gonna keep happening and getting worse. with every story and news article of police running rampant, people (who are mostly idiots) will (idiotically) be scared to death of dealing with police, so they'll more often be un-cooperative, and more often be killed; continuing the cycle of America.


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19155165 - 11/18/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
it's gonna keep happening and getting worse. with every story and news article of police running rampant, people (who are mostly idiots) will (idiotically) be scared to death of dealing with police, so they'll more often be un-cooperative, and more often be killed; continuing the cycle of America.




Yeah, I rarely have to ever deal with cops, but when I do I just remain calm, be truthful, and cooperate to the fullest extent that I feel comfortable with without letting them stomp all 9over my rights...

Every time that I do that it seems to work out for the best.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
    #19155224 - 11/18/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, except if you're gonna get arrested though, your tune would probably be different.


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Registered: 11/29/12
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19155489 - 11/18/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
yeah, except if you're gonna get arrested though, your tune would probably be different.




No, I've dealt with the cops knowing I was gonna get arrested 3 times I'm pretty sure, twice I was completely compliant because I knew I was in the wrong, and I didn't want to fight and get more charges.

One of them times involved me having a gun and people calling the police on me, even though it was only an airsoft pistol I was completely compliant because I knew they though I had a weapon and I didn't want to get shot. I went to JJC for this for like two weeks and got one year of juvenile probation that I ended up getting off of in like six months, I got charged with like three felonies that day, but I got a good lawyer and got it dropped to one
misdemeanor. I was like 12 when this happened, and I already knew to listen to police when they thought you could be a threat if you didn't want to be tazed, or very possibly shot.

The other time I was compliant I was a pretty drunk, I was at a buddy's house drinking everclear, everyone went to sleep early, I was bored and decided it was a good idea to go steal stuff from cars, well one thing led to another and the cops seen me walking down the road and stopped me, they figured out I was breaking into cars, I got arrested and went to jail, I was calm enough with them that they didn't even notice I was drunk. 

The other time I was blackout drunk, I didn't really fight too much because I was blackout drunk, but I guess I was pretty rude to the cops, I don't remember it though, if I was in my right mind I would've complied completely, because I was in the wrong and I'm usually not stupid. I got arrested , but I was drunk and I guess you're not allowed to take inebriated juveniles to jail, so they called my parents to come get me. I got one year of probation, but they kept putting off the court date until after I was 18, it still was only on my juvenile records, but still it took them like 7 months to schedule my trial. My probation was like nothing though, My probation officer said I have like no restrictions other than that I had to do good in school, I didn't get in trouble and did good in school so I got off probation in like 6 months.

I was like 17 when this happened.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
    #19155571 - 11/18/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

well, you're lucky Zimmerman didn't get you, before the cops came to deal with your drunkeness.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19155584 - 11/18/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't see any intent on his part to batter a man's head into the pavement because he was being followed.

If cops are forced to never pursue a vehicle fleeing a traffic stop why would anybody ever stop at all?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19155623 - 11/18/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

you have to pursue, and trail the felon, as to not provoke a friggin chase which puts everyone in danger. call me the nonidiot version of the police commissioner. you don't just start a full speed chase.

if the felon takes off, you follow. simple.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19155632 - 11/18/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I thought we were talking about routine traffic stops?  If it's a fucking felon then go get the bastard with all due haste.


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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19155649 - 11/18/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I didn't see any intent on his part to batter a man's head into the pavement because he was being followed.

If cops are forced to never pursue a vehicle fleeing a traffic stop why would anybody ever stop at all?





Ugh, again with the black or white vision.

The point is to have discretion in whether or not to pursue based on considering the immediate risk to civilian life, versus the necessity to apprehend a suspect immediately.

In example, it would be necessary to pursue a suspect who is armed and a immediate threat to society. Compared to opening fire on a fleeing minivan who has been identified and not shown to be armed.

If an officer is not able to differentiate the difference, then they should not be an officer in the first place.

It is interesting to see people defend LEO's when those same LEO's would likely take extreme measures against them as drug users, or as members of an online drug community.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19155650 - 11/18/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i was just paraphrasing.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: EdibleStereos]
    #19156503 - 11/18/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EdibleStereos said:
It is interesting to see people defend LEO's when those same LEO's would likely take extreme measures against them as drug users, or as members of an online drug community.




So?  That doesn't mean they are always wrong.


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