|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: koraks]
#19154465 - 11/18/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
koraks said:
1. you're assuming that the right to suicide would involve suicide clinics. We haven't even discussed assisted suicide yet,
That's EXACTLY what we've been discussing, dude. Read the OP.
Quote:
Alexestalex said:
Do you think suicide clinics should be set up where any adult of legal age can walk in and painlessly die?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Yage
Z



Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 512
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Enlil]
#19154585 - 11/18/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
It doesn't need to be a human right. Just one of those things you either do or don't. I wouldn't shine a spotlight on it.
|
goldcaphunter
EMS Medic



Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 7,432
Loc: Massachusetts
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Alexestalex]
#19154595 - 11/18/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I haven't read any of the responses to this post but if any one said " who gives a fuck if its a right or not because once you're dead it won't matter" or anything along those lines I agree with them.
--------------------
  The picture to the far left is a reminder to our users to stay safe and healthy, that's my third open heart surgery due to over use of amps. Stay safe kiddos
|
EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Mad Season]
#19154812 - 11/18/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mad Season said: Idk assuming this does happen, how does the clinic operate? Is it a non-profit organization or what? I mean they're only gunna get 1 time customers (lol) so do the tax payers have to pay for it? Sorry but I'm not interested in letting my tax money go for people to have an easier way of killing themselves. They can easily do it on their own with sleeping pills, guns, heroin, windshield washer fluid, anything. They don't need a clinic that takes more money than earns to kill them so the rest of us who continue living have to deal with it.
I'm all for rights, there's no way I'd tell people how to live/die but I shouldn't be paying for them to kill themselves. They can go die on their own, they don't need my help.
In Canada, even more so than america, suicide clinics would probably SAVE taxpayer money. Due to decreased hospital admissions, ODSP costs, etc. As well as the more easily recognized costs associated with suicide which I clearly outlined in my first post in this thread.
And this isn't even touching on the long term theoretical implications of overpopulation.
|
billy jowl
blah



Registered: 12/11/12
Posts: 1,496
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Enlil]
#19154903 - 11/18/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: A "suicide clinic" is actually a homicide clinic.
If someone wants to kill themselves, they should do it without assistance. If they can't do it without assistance, then they haven't yet reached a point where they want it badly enough.
Thats not completely true, there are many conditions such as advanced lou gherigs disease m.s. etc. where people have lost all motor skills, they may want suicide but without assistance it wouldnt be possible.
--------------------
|
Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: billy jowl]
#19154922 - 11/18/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
A nice way to go maybe overdosing on a deleriant?
|
Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Alexestalex]
#19154960 - 11/18/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
It should most absolutely be a human right should someone choose to want to take their own life.
That said there should be less encouragement to commit suicide from society and more support programs for mentally deranged and insane people.
basically, we want you to get better.. but if you want to just off yourself despite all the love then that's ultimately your own choice.
The way our society is currently run I can see why a lot of people would choose suicide. But I'd rather fight to change it
--------------------
|
Sugar Of Saturn
Student

Registered: 11/03/13
Posts: 37
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Shroomism] 1
#19155058 - 11/18/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Are you a 18 year old girl who lost her BF, or are you a terminal cancer patient?
I think the whole argument is silly though. If someone is going to kill themselves they either do it or they don't.
--------------------
|
EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
|
|
Quote:
Sugar Of Saturn said: Are you a 18 year old girl who lost her BF, or are you a terminal cancer patient?
I think the whole argument is silly though. If someone is going to kill themselves they either do it or they don't.
Okay, than explain how a terminally ill patient who may be physically incapacitated can commit suicide.
We have compassion for those who develop cancer despite life choices that may have caused it, and provide drugs that eliminate their suffering.
Why shouldnt we have compassion to help eliminate suffering in those who would rather choose to end their suffering?
Also, most people here clearly have a misunderstanding of psychological problems and their causes. Choosing death is not an easy decision, and many who make that choice have made it after years of trying to alleviate their problems.
Do you really think people have one small hiccup in their life and choose suicide? No. Suicide is a very extreme outcome, normally brought about by very extreme circumstances, many involving severe physical, psychological, or sexual abuse.
|
Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: EdibleStereos]
#19155182 - 11/18/13 04:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Ok I think I'm beginning to understand this suicide clinic idea. It would be a clinic designed to actually help FIGHT suicide. It has courses and counselors there to help you decide what is actually the best outcome. If it is suicide, they give you something to kill you painlessly, if it isn't they could refer you to a psychiatrist/psychologist or just let you go. If you were found doing an attempted suicide, they should put you into this suicide clinic so you can actually decide what to do, rather than being forced to live.
but the #1 motto of it should be: WARNING! Your decisions will effect others.
Hopefully the therapists there will be able to determine how much it would effect others and whether or not that's the actual determinant as to why someone can't die.
I think if things were like this, I'd be all for it.
Edited by Mad Season (11/18/13 04:30 PM)
|
Sugar Of Saturn
Student

Registered: 11/03/13
Posts: 37
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: EdibleStereos]
#19155208 - 11/18/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
EdibleStereos said: ...
I agree with all that. Im saying people have committed suicide fine without clinics. well not 100% successful... But I imagine most people contemplating suicide will do it privately, the ones who go to a clinic probably just want an excuse to be talked to. Being illegal never stopped assisted suicide either..
--------------------
|
TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Shroomism]
#19155210 - 11/18/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shroomism said: It should most absolutely be a human right should someone choose to want to take their own life.
That said there should be less encouragement to commit suicide from society and more support programs for mentally deranged and insane people.
basically, we want you to get better.. but if you want to just off yourself despite all the love then that's ultimately your own choice.
The way our society is currently run I can see why a lot of people would choose suicide. But I'd rather fight to change it
|
stimpson
a superhero buddha



Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 1,336
Loc: ny
Last seen: 10 days, 3 hours
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Mad Season]
#19155217 - 11/18/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
establishing suicide clinics would be like, condoning suicide wouldn't it? i think the better approach is sort of just not talk about it. as it is now. like a lot of people said, if u really want to kill yourself you could probably find a way rather easily.
i have thought about suicide. my problem is i think "i'm never going to have sex, not once my whole life. no chick is going to truly like me, even if i save up thousands of dollars for sex with some hooker some place." and the response that i sense JUST UNDER THE SURFACE from people is, "honestly, not many people are getting laid that much. you should just relax and get drunk or do drugs." but it goes unsaid.
it's the CHARADE that drives me fuckn crazy. like, we are living in a world of fucking lies. UUUUUUUUUURRRGHGHGHGHGH.
alright, go ahead and call me schizo now.
-------------------- uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhmmmm... ... ... ok.
|
Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: stimpson]
#19155268 - 11/18/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
stimpson said: i have thought about suicide. my problem is i think "i'm never going to have sex, not once my whole life. no chick is going to truly like me, even if i save up thousands of dollars for sex with some hooker some place." and the response that i sense JUST UNDER THE SURFACE from people is, "honestly, not many people are getting laid that much. you should just relax and get drunk or do drugs." but it goes unsaid.
Assuming there are counselors there at the clinic, I highly doubt they'd let people commit suicide without a BUNCH of convincing and counseling on their part. Besides they do actually say go get drunk and high, just the doctors looking for their $$.
Edited by Mad Season (11/18/13 04:45 PM)
|
EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Mad Season]
#19155300 - 11/18/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mad Season said: Ok I think I'm beginning to understand this suicide clinic idea. It would be a clinic designed to actually help FIGHT suicide. It has courses and counselors there to help you decide what is actually the best outcome. If it is suicide, they give you something to kill you painlessly, if it isn't they could refer you to a psychiatrist/psychologist or just let you go. If you were found doing an attempted suicide, they should put you into this suicide clinic so you can actually decide what to do, rather than being forced to live.
but the #1 motto of it should be: WARNING! Your decisions will effect others.
Hopefully the therapists there will be able to determine how much it would effect others and whether or not that's the actual determinant as to why someone can't die.
I think if things were like this, I'd be all for it.
Exactly.
It isn't about offing anybody who has a slight notion of suicidal idealization. It is about providing help for those who may be suicidal due to temporary feelings, and providing a safe painless route to die for those who are 100% set on the idea. That way it minimizes the costs and risks to the general public suicides can cause.
For example, liken it to a sex change operation. Most countries require extensive counselling and therapy before the procedure can be carried out. A psychiatrist must normally be convinced that the person is fully set to move forward with the decision, and the person must demonstrate a good knowledge of the consequences of the choice.
I think bringing suicide into the public eye in a more neutral way would help eliminate the stigma surrounding suicide, and allow for more people with suicidal thoughts to be able to receive treatment.
You can draw some slight similarities to this idea with the decriminalization of drugs in Portugal. Many people would think that the decriminalization of drugs, even hard drugs like heroin, would lead to higher rates of addiction. Instead what actually happened is the new laws reduced the social stigma surrounding addiction and drug use, and resulted in more addicts seeking treatment.
That would be the similiar end goal with assisted suicide, provide help for those who are on the fence regarding taking their own life, while reducing the negative social impact of those who are set on committing suicide.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: EdibleStereos]
#19155306 - 11/18/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
EdibleStereos said:
Okay, than explain how a terminally ill patient who may be physically incapacitated can commit suicide.
Stop eating and drinking.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Enlil]
#19155344 - 11/18/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
EdibleStereos said:
Okay, than explain how a terminally ill patient who may be physically incapacitated can commit suicide.
Stop eating and drinking.
Why should we be indifferent to the suffering of those dying to diseases beyond their control, yet sympathetic to people dying of diseases their life choices caused? ( smoking induced lung cancer, liver cancer in heavy drinkers, diabetes in those who overeat, etc)
And please, actually respond to my point since you are quoting me, unlike my previous posts where you ignore contradictory views to your own.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: EdibleStereos]
#19155367 - 11/18/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I don't know what point you have. If someone wants to off themselves, they can do it. Everyone has a right to do that.
No one has a right to have someone help them die without pain, though. We've no right to live without pain, so I don't see why we'd have a right to die without pain.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
billy jowl
blah



Registered: 12/11/12
Posts: 1,496
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: Enlil]
#19155421 - 11/18/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
EdibleStereos said:
Okay, than explain how a terminally ill patient who may be physically incapacitated can commit suicide.
Stop eating and drinking.
A terminally ill "incapacitated patient" by definition cant feed or drink by themselves. They are essentially force fed whether they want it or not. Again assistance would not be optional, it would most certainly be essential.
--------------------
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Should suicide be a human right? [Re: billy jowl]
#19155435 - 11/18/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
That's a different issue, though.
Such a patient also can't give consent for an assisted suicide.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
|