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Offlinevaneazy
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Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 332
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
while i wait...
    #19154987 - 11/18/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Unfortunately I forgot to register my gift card online and tried to order some syringes and it got declined and now i have to wait 5-7 business days untill the pending transaction expires so i can try again lol
BUT ANYWAYS... since i have some time before i can do anything i figured I would try to get some input on a few things. Just as a disclaimer, i know the basic answers to these questions, im just looking for everyones PERSONAL PREFERENCE so dont tell me to do more research please lol

1) first off, how long do you guys let your grains soak? whenever i let it go for 24 it seems i get a lot of exploded seeds

2) how do you guys like to let your WBS dry? i would like to try to get away from letting it sit in the strainers after simmering because when i shake the colander seeds go everywhere and it seems to take forever to get the bottom dry

3) Finally, do you guys have any tips for doings G2G in a SAB? i wipe the jars with alcohol and spray a lot of oust in the box/room and still tend to get a contam or two, just anything you guys might do that arent expressly stated in the how-tos?
Thanks for any answers guys!


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
Loc: Nunavut
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: while i wait... [Re: vaneazy]
    #19155015 - 11/18/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hi,

22 Hours. With Gypsum

1.fill my pc nearly full, stir and heat until near boil.

2.take window screen, place over big tote.

3. Secure screen to tote, with a slight bend.

4. Take WBS from PC usign strainer, when reaching near bottom
I empty pc over sink into strainer, than dump into tote w.screen

5. Stir using wooden spoon every ten minutes for an hour

6. Place into big ziplock, and fill jars that way, as opposed to
trying to carefully spoon each into jar one scoop at a time.

As for G2G Inside SAB, I do exactly the same. I wet the bottom of the container with Oust ( off brand ) and spray the jars with iso, use gloves, Its definatley not air tight. I do all of this inside a
closed off walk in closet with no air current.


--------------------
The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.


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Offlinevaneazy
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Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 332
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: while i wait... [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19155086 - 11/18/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

putting the wbs in a big ziploc and cutting a corner off for a pourer is one of the best things ive heard haha (idk if thats exactly how you were talking) but thats ingenious! thats the kind of tips im looking for lol life hacks for mycology :smile: thanks! and ill have to look for a spare window screen to try that drying method out


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OfflinePsilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: while i wait... [Re: vaneazy]
    #19155134 - 11/18/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

1.  I like to do 12 hours, but it usually ends up being 20-24. 

2.  I bring it up to a boil as quickly as I can under maximum heat, remove it and then dump the excess water through my strainer.  I line an entire counter with aluminum foil and keep removing and straining grain, shaking it a little to get out as much moisture as I can without dislodging and losing any seeds, and then dumping it onto the foil and spreading it out so it can air dry.  I let it continue until it's no longer steaming.  Unlike some other people, I don't spoon.  I just shovel it roughly into the jars with my hands, since any of it that I drop just falls back onto the foil.

3.  Loosen the lids before you do any transfer of grain, and bust up the master jar thoroughly enough that you can get enough grains into the daughter jars within one or two seconds.


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OfflineAero
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Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: while i wait... [Re: Psilicon]
    #19155200 - 11/18/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

so here is how i do it

wash the wbs till the water clears up, take out the floater dead seeds.

boil water in a pan,
when its boiling pour the washed seeds in and wait till the water boils again.
now turn off the gas/ electric completely. put the lid on and wait for 1 hour.

after 1 hour take a metal colander/ strainer, strain the seeds, and wash them under warm water. u wash away the extra starch so it wont clump in the jar, and reduces the chance of wet spots.

after the wash, rinse it very well till no drop of water comes from the strainer

load your jars 3/4 full and PC for 90 minutes

after the PC while it still crazy hot, get a towel or something (dont burn yourself) and shake the jars like mad, u mix up the dry-wet parts

let it cool, aim. shoot


--------------------
SPREAD THE SPORES



Edited by Aero (11/18/13 04:35 PM)


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OfflinePsilicon
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Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: while i wait... [Re: Aero]
    #19155213 - 11/18/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I remove the sunflower seeds and leave as much of the floating millet as I can.


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: while i wait... [Re: Psilicon]
    #19155220 - 11/18/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

1) 16 to 24 hours. Just depends on how coordinated I am with my work schedule.

2) I had the same problem. Buy the colanders they sell at local mega-centers that sit in your sink with a fine mesh. Stromrider has a picture of them in his bulk tek.

3) Practice, practice practice.  Get those hand movements brief and smooth.  If you've ever practiced slight of hand magic tricks it's the same kind of smoothness you're looking for. The technique should be so rehearsed and fluid that you could do it in your sleep without contamination.  After you've performed the movements a ten thousand times your muscles will have developed kinetic memory to make all the movements natural.

Before you do your next G2G practice the day before and then, an hour before you G2G, practice with empty jars ten times before you do the real thing.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


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OfflineJMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
Loc: Nunavut
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: while i wait... [Re: Aero]
    #19155254 - 11/18/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
so here is how i do it

wash the wbs till the water clears up, take out the floater dead seeds.

boil water in a pan,
when its boiling pour the washed seeds in and wait till the water boils again.
now turn off the gas/ electric completely. put the lid on and wait for 1 hour.

after 1 hour take a metal colander/ strainer, strain the seeds, and wash them under warm water. u wash away the extra starch so it wont clump in the jar, and reduces the chance of wet spots.

after the wash, rinse it very well till no drop of water comes from the strainer

load your jars 3/4 full and PC for 90 minutes

after the PC while it still crazy hot, get a towel or something (dont burn yourself) and shake the jars like mad, u mix up the dry-wet parts

let it cool, aim. shoot




Bad.

The reason you simmer in a boil, is simply to dry the grains through steaming.

Why would you rinse off the starches, I find them as useful
for the mycelium as the grain itself. Adding Gysum into the
water during soak, or simmer will achieve the non-stick
you're looking for, while adding beneficial calcium.

Again, the reason we simmer is to get the grains super hot,
and then allow them to dry in open air, virtually steaming
themselves dry...


--------------------
The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: while i wait... [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19155292 - 11/18/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

A hair dryer works great for drying grains :smile:


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OfflinePsilicon
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Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: while i wait... [Re: Stromrider]
    #19155327 - 11/18/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:
A hair dryer works great for drying grains :smile:




Real men use blowtorches.


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OfflineAero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: while i wait... [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19155340 - 11/18/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

u say wrong but i have 100% success rate with this, and great grows.

it works for me that works for you

u just say wrong cause its not the same way u do it :laugh: epic man u are such a square :laugh:DDD


--------------------
SPREAD THE SPORES



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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
Loc: Nunavut
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: while i wait... [Re: Aero]
    #19155448 - 11/18/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
u say wrong but i have 100% success rate with this, and great grows.

it works for me that works for you

u just say wrong cause its not the same way u do it :laugh: epic man u are such a square :laugh:DDD




Trich infested grain produces fruits out of desperation,
but it works too, just not the way I want to do it.

Im not saying its wrong, im just saying its not right :wink:


--------------------
The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.


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OfflineAero
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Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: while i wait... [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19155481 - 11/18/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

misunderstood


--------------------
SPREAD THE SPORES



Edited by Aero (11/19/13 10:28 AM)


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
Loc: Nunavut
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: while i wait... [Re: Aero]
    #19155513 - 11/18/13 05:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Nice pictures, perhaps you should create your own thread
to boast about the fruits of your labor.

This is about practice, and I voiced my opinion about
practice. I than offered my opinion about your practice.

I used an example of bad practice producing results.
I did not in any way link your practice to this idea.

Simple enough.


--------------------
The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.


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OfflineAero
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Registered: 11/01/13
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Re: while i wait... [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19155577 - 11/18/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

mistype


--------------------
SPREAD THE SPORES



Edited by Aero (11/19/13 10:27 AM)


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
Loc: Nunavut
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: while i wait... [Re: Aero]
    #19155599 - 11/18/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
if u follow my tek, u are likely end up with a tub like that,
end of story


and jMcdoogle you are right of course,

i see a few days ago u were having troubles with your bulletproof tek..and now u are giving advices on HOW TO prepare grains the PROPER way :laugh: great master
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19103798#19103798

anyways. we always learn something




There was no problems, Im sure you read that whole thread?

I was looking for advice, which turned out to be contam free..

I never claimed to be a master and I still do not, and you're simply turning around
the situation on me to avoid judgement of your own.

Sad.


--------------------
The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.


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OfflineAero
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Registered: 11/01/13
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: while i wait... [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19155620 - 11/18/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

pointless


--------------------
SPREAD THE SPORES



Edited by Aero (11/19/13 10:26 AM)


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
Loc: Nunavut
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: while i wait... [Re: Aero]
    #19155657 - 11/18/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aero said:
i finished this conversation with you.





You're trying to degrade the value of my word here on these
forums with a post that offers no original information as the OP
was deleted.

Sounds like there wasnt anything wrong with what I said in the first
place, seeing as you resorted to a few week old post.

Now I am done, :wink:


--------------------
The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.


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InvisibleMUSH HEAD420
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Registered: 09/14/08
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Re: while i wait... [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19157397 - 11/18/13 11:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I like to spread the all wbs out on news paper with a wire mesh scoop strait from the hot water. Mix with your hand until the paper is soaked then transfer to dry paper and repeat until paper does not get wet quickly.

the trick is not spilling shit. lol


Edited by MUSH HEAD420 (11/18/13 11:01 PM)


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: while i wait... [Re: JMcDoogle] * 1
    #19157626 - 11/18/13 11:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JMcDoogle said:
Again, the reason we simmer is to get the grains super hot,
and then allow them to dry in open air, virtually steaming
themselves dry...




Rice won't hydrate if you don't bring it to a boil. Neither will rye and with rye we boil hard for a whole ten minutes.

Grains will dry without heat.  We simmer to hydrate.  Different grains require different amounts of simmering.  Bird Seed doesn't take very long to simmer to hydrate.  Rye takes a lot of boiling. Rice takes a medium amount of boiling.

If we didn't need to 'cook' the grains to hydrate them then no company would ever sell rice cookers.  Grains can only absorb so much without boiling.  You'll never get fully hydrated rice with room temperature water no matter how long you leave it in the water.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


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Offlinesilverstem
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Re: while i wait... [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19157649 - 11/18/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Quote:

JMcDoogle said:
Again, the reason we simmer is to get the grains super hot,
and then allow them to dry in open air, virtually steaming
themselves dry...




Rice won't hydrate if you don't bring it to a boil. Neither will rye and with rye we boil hard for a whole ten minutes.

Grains will dry without heat.  We simmer to hydrate.  Different grains require different amounts of simmering.  Bird Seed doesn't take very long to simmer to hydrate.  Rye takes a lot of boiling. Rice takes a medium amount of boiling.

If we didn't need to 'cook' the grains to hydrate them then no company would ever sell rice cookers.  Grains can only absorb so much without boiling.  You'll never get fully hydrated rice with room temperature water no matter how long you leave it in the water.



we soak for 12-24 hours to hydrate.. RR said it himself "i like to boil for ten min to allow the excess moister to steam off the grains"
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Grain-Preparation


--------------------


Shroomery needs a gun forum!!!!!!!!! CAN WE HAVE ONE?????


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: while i wait... [Re: silverstem]
    #19157750 - 11/19/13 12:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

silverstem said:
Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Quote:

JMcDoogle said:
Again, the reason we simmer is to get the grains super hot,
and then allow them to dry in open air, virtually steaming
themselves dry...




Rice won't hydrate if you don't bring it to a boil. Neither will rye and with rye we boil hard for a whole ten minutes.

Grains will dry without heat.  We simmer to hydrate.  Different grains require different amounts of simmering.  Bird Seed doesn't take very long to simmer to hydrate.  Rye takes a lot of boiling. Rice takes a medium amount of boiling.

If we didn't need to 'cook' the grains to hydrate them then no company would ever sell rice cookers.  Grains can only absorb so much without boiling.  You'll never get fully hydrated rice with room temperature water no matter how long you leave it in the water.



we soak for 12-24 hours to hydrate.. RR said it himself "i like to boil for ten min to allow the excess moister to steam off the grains"
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Grain-Preparation




In the video he also says they soak to 'HELP' hydrate the grains. He never says the soak does all the hydrating.  The grains cannot get all the hydration they need simply from soaking.  The reason we soak is to germinate endospores and to give the grains a 'priming' hydration to keep them from bursting.

When you simmer a grain, it hydrates it more than it would by just soaking it.

When I was an apprentice I had to make rice 5 times a day for 18 months.  I wasn't allowed to even touch a knife before I could cook 'perfect rice.'  We also soak rice before we cook it to minimize the bursting of grains.  Water content is controlled precisely from beginning to end.  I have cooked so many batches of grain to 'perfection' it would blow your mind. 

Simmering hydrates the grains. Period.  If it didn't then there would be no risk of bursting the germ. If simmering didn't hydrate the grains germs would burst without boiling, just by soaking them.

RR doesn't have to say the simmer is for hydration because it would take a complete idiot to not realize that simmering any kind of grain hydrates it.

If all the simmer is supposed to do it get them hot for evaporation, then why does he boil them for 10 whole minutes?  The water temperature can't rise above boiling.  So why wouldn't he just dump them as soon as a full boil was reached? Surely he doesn't need to maintain that heat for 10 whole minutes JUST to make them steamy.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


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Offlinesilverstem
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Re: while i wait... [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19157794 - 11/19/13 12:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Quote:

silverstem said:
Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Quote:

JMcDoogle said:
Again, the reason we simmer is to get the grains super hot,
and then allow them to dry in open air, virtually steaming
themselves dry...




Rice won't hydrate if you don't bring it to a boil. Neither will rye and with rye we boil hard for a whole ten minutes.

Grains will dry without heat.  We simmer to hydrate.  Different grains require different amounts of simmering.  Bird Seed doesn't take very long to simmer to hydrate.  Rye takes a lot of boiling. Rice takes a medium amount of boiling.

If we didn't need to 'cook' the grains to hydrate them then no company would ever sell rice cookers.  Grains can only absorb so much without boiling.  You'll never get fully hydrated rice with room temperature water no matter how long you leave it in the water.



we soak for 12-24 hours to hydrate.. RR said it himself "i like to boil for ten min to allow the excess moister to steam off the grains"
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Grain-Preparation




In the video he also says they soak to 'HELP' hydrate the grains. He never says the soak does all the hydrating.  The grains cannot get all the hydration they need simply from soaking.  The reason we soak is to germinate endospores and to give the grains a 'priming' hydration to keep them from bursting.

When you simmer a grain, it hydrates it more than it would by just soaking it.

When I was an apprentice I had to make rice 5 times a day for 18 months.  I wasn't allowed to even touch a knife before I could cook 'perfect rice.'  We also soak rice before we cook it to minimize the bursting of grains.  Water content is controlled precisely from beginning to end.  I have cooked so many batches of grain to 'perfection' it would blow your mind. 

Simmering hydrates the grains. Period.  If it didn't then there would be no risk of bursting the germ. If simmering didn't hydrate the grains germs would burst without boiling, just by soaking them.

RR doesn't have to say the simmer is for hydration because it would take a complete idiot to not realize that simmering any kind of grain hydrates it.

If all the simmer is supposed to do it get them hot for evaporation, then why does he boil them for 10 whole minutes?  The water temperature can't rise above boiling.  So why wouldn't he just dump them as soon as a full boil was reached? Surely he doesn't need to maintain that heat for 10 whole minutes JUST to make them steamy.



Quote:

LeopardMan said:
I rarely soak my grains and I have never experienced any problem. The endospores conspiracy theory is a huge myth IME :shrug:



thats coming from a trusted cultivator.


Quote:

Javadog said:
Quote:

k00laid said:
steam dries grains faster than evaporating standing water.

thats about it.
<SNIP>





You are on it today bro. 

Yes, this is why I like to do the simmer, the "steam dry".

The warmth of the grains really helps them dry.

JD



that was also said by a tc...
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14737043/fpart/2/vc/1

yes simmering may help the grains get to field capacity but it isnt its primary function.. unless you want to reduce your soak time.. which RR did in his video.


--------------------


Shroomery needs a gun forum!!!!!!!!! CAN WE HAVE ONE?????


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: while i wait... [Re: silverstem]
    #19157812 - 11/19/13 12:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Simmering dry grains will hydrate them, as will soaking.  However, if you boil or simmer dry grains, they expand too fast and many will burst.  Burst grains spill starch and are harder for the mycelium to colonize.  This can and does cause problems later.

Soaking grains in hot water hydrates them without bursting.  If one follows this procedure, the boil is to get them hot enough to steam dry before loading into jars. Other growers use different procedures, but all of them involve getting the grains to the correct moisture content and then sterilizing.

Endospores do not need to germinate to be killed.  Stinky, fermented grains will have far more endospores than the original dry grain simply because endospore forming bacteria will begin to form new endospores within hours of germination.  Simply hydrate the grains before pressure cooking for at least 4 hours.  When the grains are hydrated, the hard shell of the endospore is also hydrated, thus it will easily be nuked in the pressure cooker whether it has germinated or not.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18958259#18958259


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Offlinesilverstem
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Re: while i wait... [Re: PussyFart]
    #19157818 - 11/19/13 12:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:


--------------------


Shroomery needs a gun forum!!!!!!!!! CAN WE HAVE ONE?????


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: while i wait... [Re: silverstem]
    #19157843 - 11/19/13 12:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

RR's 5 steps to perfect grain spawn video 'wrap up'  This is from the paid version I don't know if it's different from the online one.  This is the final part of the video where he summarizes the steps in the previous 10 minutes.

When he comes to part three he opens with 'We boil for a couple of reasons, ONE: IT FINISHES HYDRATING THE GRAINS.'

Boiling is absolutely necessary for proper hydration of grains. I've never seen a grain that became fully hydrated and burst simply from soaking in water.  An overnight soak is not long enough to fully hydrate a grain, period.  It is definitely enough to PRIME a grain and soften it but to hydrate the inner germ you must boil it.

When you soak a grain it will soften.  But there is always an 'equilibrium' point where no further soaking will achieve any further hydration.  With white rice, my most familiar example, this is achieved at the 20 - 30 minute point.  No further softening will occur after this equilibrium has been reached.  To hydrate further and completely you MUST boil it.

Those TC's you cited may be good at growing but they have an incomplete understanding of the actual grain itself.

Why aren't there a hundred no boil grain teks out there if it's only purpose is to speed up drying?

I ask again, if the only reason for the boil was steam drying then why not dump them right away at boiling?


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Re: while i wait... [Re: silverstem]
    #19157844 - 11/19/13 12:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you gotta mix your grains while they are hot to let the steam out, I do it on paper to make sure excess water is lost.

the (wbs) grains are done just before you can squish the milo completely, it takes cooking to get it to this point.


Edited by MUSH HEAD420 (11/19/13 12:45 AM)


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Re: while i wait... [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19158063 - 11/19/13 02:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Boiling is absolutely necessary for proper hydration of grains.



Not really....I never simmer/boil my WBS.....comes out perfect every time when soaked in hot tap water for 24 hours.


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Re: while i wait... [Re: PussyFart]
    #19158078 - 11/19/13 02:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Boiling is absolutely necessary for proper hydration of grains.



Not really....I never simmer/boil my WBS.....comes out perfect every time when soaked in hot tap water for 24 hours.




Okay, I'm sorry I realize now I've been looking at this from the wrong perspective.

In the kitchen, we boil grains for full hydration.  We cook them.

But mycelium does not need the grains to be cooked to enjoy a tasty birdseed meal.

In the case of 'properly' hydrating grains for the purpose of growing mycelium, perhaps the boil is unnecessary. 

For the purpose of human consumption (the paradigm within which I operate and comprehend) boiling is necessary to hydrate a grain completely.


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Re: while i wait... [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19158352 - 11/19/13 05:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Bah, I never said we dont need to soak and that
the only reason we simmer is to hydrate.

I merely pointed out the fact that it serves
a main function of steam drying the grain.


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Re: while i wait... [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19158614 - 11/19/13 08:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Quote:

JMcDoogle said:
Again, the reason we simmer is to get the grains super hot,
and then allow them to dry in open air, virtually steaming
themselves dry...




Rice won't hydrate if you don't bring it to a boil. Neither will rye and with rye we boil hard for a whole ten minutes.

Grains will dry without heat.  We simmer to hydrate.  Different grains require different amounts of simmering.  Bird Seed doesn't take very long to simmer to hydrate.  Rye takes a lot of boiling. Rice takes a medium amount of boiling.

If we didn't need to 'cook' the grains to hydrate them then no company would ever sell rice cookers.  Grains can only absorb so much without boiling.  You'll never get fully hydrated rice with room temperature water no matter how long you leave it in the water.




In starchy grains this is called gelatinization - a process that only occurs in the presence of heat and water. This actually destroys the crystal structure of the starch molecule. You are exactly right, without heat to gelatinize, soaking would only hydrate so much. You need to actually begin to break down the starches to increase the water storage capacity of the grain.


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Re: while i wait... [Re: JMcDoogle]
    #19158841 - 11/19/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I soaked for almost 24 hours before and the milo was not tender, brought it up to a boil and bam milo soft.

Is it not essential to get the grain to a semi-squishable state? or does the myc break it down regardless?

I understand that it does not take cooking to hydrate fully, but is it necessary to get a softer texture through cooking?


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Re: while i wait... [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19158912 - 11/19/13 09:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

For me it makes little difference....my mycellium love my grains after a 24 hour soak in hot tap water, even without a boil/simmer....even without being really "squishy"....


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Re: while i wait... [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19159017 - 11/19/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

word!


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Re: while i wait... [Re: vaneazy]
    #19159025 - 11/19/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

vaneazy said:
1) first off, how long do you guys let your grains soak? whenever i let it go for 24 it seems i get a lot of exploded seeds

2) how do you guys like to let your WBS dry? i would like to try to get away from letting it sit in the strainers after simmering because when i shake the colander seeds go everywhere and it seems to take forever to get the bottom dry

3) Finally, do you guys have any tips for doings G2G in a SAB? i wipe the jars with alcohol and spray a lot of oust in the box/room and still tend to get a contam or two, just anything you guys might do that arent expressly stated in the how-tos?
Thanks for any answers guys!




WBS prep
G2G in a SAB

Burst grains are caused by boiling for too long.

:goodluck:


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Re: while i wait... [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19159189 - 11/19/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I hydrate my grains by weight, I shoot for a 50% max final product. Anywhere between 45% - 50% moisture content gives me good results. I found that soaking any longer than 6 hrs does not add much to the hydration of grains. The grain soaks up to about 40% moisture content by weight relatively quickly, then the rate of absorption decreases dramatically after 6 hrs or so. A 24 hr or more soak will get the moisture content up to around 45% with no simmering needed, but I'm impatient so I help it along a little. I'll simmer to get the last 10-15% into the grain. Load into jars and pc, no drying needed. 

If you use the weight method, remember that the grain has moisture content to begin with. In the case of popcorn that moisture content is around 13% - 14%, an industry standard, so 100 gms of popcorn is really 87 gms of popcorn + 13 gms water. In the end, 100 grams of popcorn hydrated should weigh around 130 grams (87+43) + 5 grams water that I will lose in the pc. = 135 gms. This method is very consistent for me.

To check the moisture content of your 'dry' grains, measure out exactly 100 grams of grain, place on pan, put in oven 225F-250F for a couple 3 hrs. Remove and weigh. Subtract that weight from 100 and thats your moisture content in %. That figure wont be exact, but will be pretty close. If you dont factor in original water content, in the case of popcorn, 50 gms water to 100 gms corn = around 60% moisture content. Thats moving on the to 'wet' side imo, so you have to pay attention to what you're starting with.

Peace,
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Re: while i wait... [Re: Fred Teddy]
    #19159206 - 11/19/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i wouldnt do grains that way.. not drying the outside of your grains could cause pooling water at the bottom of your jar.


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Re: while i wait... [Re: Fred Teddy]
    #19159221 - 11/19/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You could weigh the whole batch of grain, pre-soak and after to get water weight.


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Re: while i wait... [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19159266 - 11/19/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

silverstem said:
i wouldnt do grains that way.. not drying the outside of your grains could cause pooling water at the bottom of your jar.




I've never had water pool in the jar. There is no water in the jar, just hydrated grains that weigh a specific amount. No excess water here ...



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Re: while i wait... [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19159275 - 11/19/13 11:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MUSH HEAD420 said:
You could weigh the whole batch of grain, pre-soak and after to get water weight.




Thats what I do, I do 1000 gm batches, I just used 100 grams as an example. Its easier when talking percentages.


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Re: while i wait... [Re: PussyFart]
    #19160850 - 11/19/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:Stinky, fermented grains will have far more endospores than the original dry grain simply because endospore forming bacteria will begin to form new endospores within hours of germination.  Simply hydrate the grains before pressure cooking for at least 4 hours.  When the grains are hydrated, the hard shell of the endospore is also hydrated, thus it will easily be nuked in the pressure cooker whether it has germinated or not.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18958259#18958259




This is incorrect, though.  Endospore-forming bacteria only form one endospore apiece, and they do it when the situation gets rough in terms of temperature, food or water availability, or toxins.  It's not like they just hose down the area with spores like trichoderma does. 

Not that I think it's particularly relevant to this discussion, since I agree that pressure cooking long and hard enough will kill any life, but I think that part of his argument is flawed.


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Re: while i wait... [Re: Psilicon]
    #19164432 - 11/20/13 10:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

well thanks for all the responses guys but theres no need to argue about simmering lol we can agree to disagree. some people simmer and have favorable results while others dont and still get the same results. whatever works for you is great! i might actually choose not to simmer this go around since someone mentioned that could be whats caused all my bursted seeds.


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Re: while i wait... [Re: vaneazy]
    #19164442 - 11/20/13 10:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

well...now that i think of it i might just heat the water until its hot to touch seeing as im having trouble completely drying them off haha but they wouldnt be heated for long at all


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Re: while i wait... [Re: vaneazy]
    #19167185 - 11/20/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you bring it to a boil and dump immediately you will minimize bursting.  This is according to frank's tek.  You never want to simmer bird seed for a long time.  By the time it comes to a boil it is fully hydrated.


--------------------
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Re: while i wait... [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19168101 - 11/20/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if i bring it to a boil, im assuming i should not be mixing the birdseed? whenever i stir it up it takes several more minutes just to start to see bubbles coming up again


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Re: while i wait... [Re: vaneazy]
    #19168103 - 11/20/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

vaneazy said:
if i bring it to a boil, im assuming i should not be mixing the birdseed? whenever i stir it up it takes several more minutes just to start to see bubbles coming up again




you should stir especially if using gypsum, since it settles to bottom of pot and can scorch/burn. but as soon as it hits rolling boil dump into strainer and steam dry


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Re: while i wait... [Re: twistedty]
    #19168127 - 11/20/13 11:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i soak my wbs in a bucket for 20 to 24 hours take out the floaters then i dump into a strainer i rinse the bird seed till the water turns out clear then i dry with a hair dryer

for sab i spray the room with lysol spray inside the sab with lysol let sit, i wipe everything i put in the sab with alcohol, then i spray more lysol and then sit, then i go to work


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Re: while i wait... [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #19168134 - 11/20/13 11:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

flipsidetrue said:
i soak my wbs in a bucket for 20 to 24 hours take out the floaters then i dump into a strainer i rinse the bird seed till the water turns out clear then i dry with a hair dryer

for sab i spray the room with lysol spray inside the sab with lysol let sit, i wipe everything i put in the sab with alcohol, then i spray more lysol and then sit, then i go to work




why not rinse before the soak, and what is the hair dryer for?


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Re: while i wait... [Re: twistedty]
    #19168151 - 11/21/13 12:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i dont rinse before i soak because i'm usually in a rush so i just wait till after the wbs is hydrated, the hair dryer speeds up the process of drying because the strainers i use are small so it takes forever for it to dry evenly


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Re: while i wait... [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #19168157 - 11/21/13 12:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

your not a gypsum guy then:manofapproval:
i rarely use it on my grains myself lately, just never seem to have it on hand lol


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Re: while i wait... [Re: cronicr]
    #19168179 - 11/21/13 12:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

the 1 time i did use gypsum while soaking, it clumped the wbs together and the jars all got trich in them  :shrug:


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Re: while i wait... [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #19168182 - 11/21/13 12:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

flipsidetrue said:
the 1 time i did use gypsum while soaking, it clumped the wbs together and the jars all got trich in them  :shrug:



Quote:

flipsidetrue said:
the 1 time i did use gypsum while soaking, it clumped the wbs together and the jars all got trich in them  :shrug:




do you not boil your grains?


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Re: while i wait... [Re: twistedty]
    #19168201 - 11/21/13 12:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yea i did all that with gypsum all the jars still got trich, i dont boil now since i dont use gypsum


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Re: while i wait... [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #19168216 - 11/21/13 12:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

flipsidetrue said:
yea i did all that with gypsum all the jars still got trich, i dont boil now since i dont use gypsum





gypsum doesnt cause trich.  seems like a lot of time to hair dry grains when you can boil them dump in strainer and walk away while they steam dry.

to each his own :smile:


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Re: while i wait... [Re: twistedty]
    #19168261 - 11/21/13 12:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

hmmmmmm good point i outta try that and save some time.. :facepalm3:


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Re: while i wait... [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #19168263 - 11/21/13 12:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i don't boil mine, i let it come to a boil and chuck it on a window screen


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Re: while i wait... [Re: newera]
    #19169132 - 11/21/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

another question for you guys lol it might be dumb but im trying to eliminate any possible problems! i added the gypsum before i let the grains soak, so the gypsum also soaks for the 24 hrs. is this correct? or should i just add the gypsum when i start to bring it to a simmer/boil? and on top of that, am i supposed to add gypsum AGAIN when making my coir/verm substrate? or is adding the gypsum at either of the two steps enough?


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Re: while i wait... [Re: vaneazy]
    #19169199 - 11/21/13 09:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yes add it before you soak and yyes you still use it in your bulk:thumbup:


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Re: while i wait... [Re: newera]
    #19169511 - 11/21/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

newera said:
i don't boil mine, i let it come to a boil and chuck it on a window screen




you dont boil yours? you let it come to a boil

i see

:pleasetellmemore:


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Re: while i wait... [Re: twistedty]
    #19169622 - 11/21/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

twistedty said:
Quote:

newera said:
i don't boil mine, i let it come to a boil and chuck it on a window screen




you dont boil yours? you let it come to a boil

i see

:pleasetellmemore:





:lol: I believe he means he doesn't maintain the boil for any duration.


--------------------
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The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
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Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

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Re: while i wait... [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19169788 - 11/21/13 12:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

aye thats the best way to do it let it come to rolling boil then dump into your choice of strainer/screen


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