|
Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
|
|
Quote:
andrewmurray86 said: I think the fact that the Church still exists 2,000 years later is proof enough, not many things exist that long.
All it proves is that people have been gullible for a long, long time, and the more entrenched a mega-cult becomes, the easier it is for it to swallow up new followers.
|
Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
|
|
Quote:
andrewmurray86 said: There are documented cases of the miraculous. Would you even bother to look into this or accept them?
How do you know these documented cases weren't made up to support some greed-fueled scheme?
Quote:
I, personally was healed of depression in an instant when I converted to Christianity, long before I ever entered a church.
How do you know it wasn't something like the placebo effect?
|
Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:

What documented cases?
They were documented by humans. Have faith !
|
andrewmurray86
Θεολογος




Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 1,120
Loc: Hunter Valley, NSW
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
Re: Martin Luther [Re: Hobozen]
#19151280 - 11/17/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blankk said:
Quote:
andrewmurray86 said: There are documented cases of the miraculous. Would you even bother to look into this or accept them?
How do you know these documented cases weren't made up to support some greed-fueled scheme?
Quote:
I, personally was healed of depression in an instant when I converted to Christianity, long before I ever entered a church.
How do you know it wasn't something like the placebo effect?
|
Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
|
|
HOW YOU KNOW?
|
Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
|
|
Flawless rebuttal, Andrew. I see you are indeed a student of logic.
|
andrewmurray86
Θεολογος




Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 1,120
Loc: Hunter Valley, NSW
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
|
Sleepwalker, show me 1 peer reviewed medical journal that has an article where someone was cured of depression, on the spot, due to a placebo effect.
I'll happily delete that retract that post, until the time that you do so, that remains the most appropriate response.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Christianity caused my depression.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
andrewmurray86
Θεολογος




Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 1,120
Loc: Hunter Valley, NSW
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
|
I'm very sorry to hear that 
I gotta bounce y'all. I'll be back later and will post some more if it's relevant/worthwhile.
It's been... well kinda exactly how I thought it would be :P
Peace.
|
Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
|
|
Quote:
andrewmurray86 said: Sleepwalker, show me 1 peer reviewed medical journal that has an article where someone was cured of depression, on the spot, due to a placebo effect.
I'll happily delete that retract that post, until the time that you do so, that remains the most appropriate response.
Quote:
blankk said: something like the placebo effect
Meaning that it could have been similar to the placebo effect, in that you tricked yourself into thinking/behaving in a new way. Happens all the time. Nothing miraculous.
Edited by Hobozen (11/17/13 07:24 PM)
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Quote:
andrewmurray86 said: I'm very sorry to hear that 
I gotta bounce y'all. I'll be back later and will post some more if it's relevant/worthwhile.
It's been... well kinda exactly how I thought it would be :P
Peace.
Jesus gave me the depression. It's a fucking miracle.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
|
|
Quote:
andrewmurray86 said: There are documented cases of the miraculous. Would you even bother to look into this or accept them?
I, personally was healed of depression in an instant when I converted to Christianity, long before I ever entered a church. You don't need to believe me, but this doesn't affect the truth of the matter.
I think the fact that the Church still exists 2,000 years later is proof enough, not many things exist that long. Yet, again, is that enough for you? I somehow think it is not. Apologetics is a fun field but in terms of convincing it is not effective. It generally only keeps skeptics quiet until they can think of new loopholes that they choose to keep themselves from being convinced of the existence of God. Having said that, questions are an important part of anyone's faith!
Being "healed" of depression, not evidence. We had a guy talking about goose bumps being evidence of chi the other day, this evidence is right in line with that for lack of extraordinary.
Slavery lasted longer then 2000 years in some places, what proof is that of anything?
As far as "loopholes" and circular logic, the burden of proof is on the one making an extraordinary claim. Claiming that there is an invisible man whom you haven't seen or heard, who created the universe and controls / judges everything in it, is an extraordinary claim. So a lot more evidence is needed to back it than what could easily be explained as a placebo, that is not sufficient evidence and neither is the existence of any oppressive doctrines written by semi-cave people lasting longer than 2000 years.
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
|
|
Quote:
andrewmurray86 said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
they are united on the same core principles
Killing gays
Support of slavery
Suppression of women
Disdain for science
Love of war
You're just hating now.
Does sound sort of hateful doesn't it? Well, four of five are directives from your Holy Book.
The other one is an observation which you have exhibited.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
ouch
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
|
Re: Martin Luther [Re: Icelander] 2
#19153010 - 11/18/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
From viewpoint of science mere documentation is not evidence. Hearsay is not evidence. A coterie of believers is not evidence. In fact from science standpoint evidence is not truth. The truth is postulated from an outcome which can be duplicated by anybody.
Nothing about Jesus can be duplicated (since he's the only besotted Son of Gourd), so there can be no science to anything Jesus. There can be no evidence of miracles because they rely upon hearsay and a coalition of believers.
There is no point trying to bridge faith and science. To do so is to water down both. I know Jesuses like to turn water into wine. But it's simply impossible to turn faith into science. Even God can't do that!
SO, um, sorry, religious losers, you all are very thick headed.
-------------------- ...or something
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Martin Luther [Re: eve69]
#19153756 - 11/18/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
All that and a master with the women. 
I'd say he's got it all but then I remember he has to come here to find friends. 
Not to mention school loans he'll never be able to repay.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Martin Luther [Re: eve69]
#19153898 - 11/18/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
eve69 said: From viewpoint of science mere documentation is not evidence. Hearsay is not evidence. A coterie of believers is not evidence. In fact from science standpoint evidence is not truth. The truth is postulated from an outcome which can be duplicated by anybody.
I think you have that backwards. From a scientific standpoint evidence is the only truth. More precisely, observations are the only truth. I observe a bright round object in the sky that hurts my eyes. That is an unassailable truth, I observed it. I then formulate hypothesis and theories based on this observational evidence which are not strictly truth not matter how accurate I believe them to be.
Edited by DieCommie (11/18/13 12:43 PM)
|
|