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Offlinesnoot
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Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. * 4
    #19149639 - 11/17/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

We report here, for the first time, the presence of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in pineal gland microdialysate obtained from the rat. Copyright © 2013 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.






ABSTRACT

We report a qualitative liquid chromatography–tandem mass spectrometry (LC/MS/MS) method for the simultaneous analysis of the three known N,N-dimethyltryptamine endogenous hallucinogens, their precursors and metabolites, as well as melatonin and its metabolic precursors. The method was characterized using artificial cerebrospinal fluid (aCSF) as the matrix and was subsequently applied to the analysis of rat brain pineal gland-aCSF microdialysate. The method describes the simultaneous analysis of 23 chemically diverse compounds plus a deuterated internal standard by direct injection, requiring no dilution or extraction of the samples. The results demonstrate that this is a simple, sensitive, specific and direct approach to the qualitative analysis of these compounds in this matrix. The protocol also employs stringent MS confirmatory criteria for the detection and confirmation of the compounds examined, including exact mass measurements. The excellent limits of detection and broad scope make it a valuable research tool for examining the endogenous hallucinogen pathways in the central nervous system. We report here, for the first time, the presence of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in pineal gland microdialysate obtained from the rat. Copyright © 2013 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bmc.2981/abstract;jsessionid=7996361A89D7B7A2656009E382B81E07.f03t01

Would be nice to read the article.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: snoot]
    #19149678 - 11/17/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:awethumb: thanks for posting


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #19149710 - 11/17/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

How come a bunch of drugged out hippies knew this already?

God?


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OfflineHeroMike
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19149717 - 11/17/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Cool . :bongload:


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Konyap] * 5
    #19149720 - 11/17/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
How come a bunch of drugged out hippies knew this already?

God?



No, a bunch of drugged out hippies misread Strassman's book which HYPOTHESIZED the presence of DMT in the pineal gland, ran around spreading misinformation by telling everyone it was in fact true that there was DMT in the pineal gland, making the psychedelic community look like a potential bunch of fools if it turned out to be false, so thank god this group of scientists has redeemed it.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #19149732 - 11/17/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
How come a bunch of drugged out hippies knew this already?

God?



No, a bunch of drugged out hippies misread Strassman's book which HYPOTHESIZED the presence of DMT in the pineal gland, ran around spreading misinformation by telling everyone it was in fact true that there was DMT in the pineal gland, making the psychedelic community look like a potential bunch of fools if it turned out to be false, so thank god this group of scientists has redeemed it.





there's still a bit of research to do before we can say it's been redeemed


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #19149733 - 11/17/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if freakin' grass has it, i'm presuming humans got it too.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19149736 - 11/17/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
How come a bunch of drugged out hippies knew this already?

God?



No, a bunch of drugged out hippies misread Strassman's book which HYPOTHESIZED the presence of DMT in the pineal gland, ran around spreading misinformation by telling everyone it was in fact true that there was DMT in the pineal gland, making the psychedelic community look like a potential bunch of fools if it turned out to be false, so thank god this group of scientists has redeemed it.





there's still a bit of research to do before we can say it's been redeemed


elaborate please. you mean to say as in, proving there is DMT in the pineal gland in humans? rats are pretty damn reliable. or different research?


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Offlinesnoot
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19149887 - 11/17/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
if freakin' grass has it, i'm presuming humans got it too.





We've known for some time that dmt was endogenous in the human brain, however the pineal gland has only ever been speculated apon.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: snoot]
    #19149920 - 11/17/13 02:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, because it's been shown that DMT (found in plants) is a fundamental building block to their development. you can reasonably assume that DMT has the same building block characteristics for humans, that say Tryptamine does; and thusly can presume that we also share the same instances of having endo-DMT in our molecular make-up.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19149951 - 11/17/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, OP should have written "rats" in the title, so as to not make it misleading.

This does NOT confirm DMT in the human pineal. It may suggest it, but that is not the same thing. If rats were 100% perfectly analogous to humans, we'd almost never have to test drugs on people. But that's not the case.


I don't think Strassman was talking out his ass. He had reasons to speculate as he did. And so far, this finding seems like a minor confirmation of that. So it very well may be true. But at this point, it has not been "proven."


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Invisiblecollie man
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: snoot]
    #19149959 - 11/17/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So we can now assume that in fear an loathing it was dmt he was droppin and not adrenocrome.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: snoot]
    #19149994 - 11/17/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Read about this a while back.
Doesn't prove anything about humans, but it does make the theory seem more plausible than ever.


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Edited by Shroomopotamus (11/17/13 02:29 PM)


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Offlinesnoot
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19150012 - 11/17/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
yeah, because it's been shown that DMT (found in plants) is a fundamental building block to their development. you can reasonably assume that DMT has the same building block characteristics for humans, that say Tryptamine does; and thusly can presume that we also share the same instances of having endo-DMT in our molecular make-up.




Its been shown? Go on..........


Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Yeah, OP should have written "rats" in the title, so as to not make it misleading.

This does NOT confirm DMT in the human pineal. It may suggest it, but that is not the same thing. If rats were 100% perfectly analogous to humans, we'd almost never have to test drugs on people. But that's not the case.


I don't think Strassman was talking out his ass. He had reasons to speculate as he did. And so far, this finding seems like a minor confirmation of that. So it very well may be true. But at this point, it has not been "proven."





I never said humans either. This is just merely evidence that supports Strassman. Lets just be glad progress, is progressing.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Konyap] * 1
    #19150032 - 11/17/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
How come a bunch of drugged out hippies knew this already?

God?



No, a bunch of drugged out hippies misread Strassman's book which HYPOTHESIZED the presence of DMT in the pineal gland, ran around spreading misinformation by telling everyone it was in fact true that there was DMT in the pineal gland, making the psychedelic community look like a potential bunch of fools if it turned out to be false, so thank god this group of scientists has redeemed it.





there's still a bit of research to do before we can say it's been redeemed


elaborate please. you mean to say as in, proving there is DMT in the pineal gland in humans? rats are pretty damn reliable. or different research?




The work needs to be reproduced and confirmed, that's all. :nerd:

Quote:

Illyabo said:
How come a bunch of drugged out hippies knew this already?

God?




Science is still recovering the secrets lost to us when the repeated pummeling of peace demonstrators' skulls led to permanent memory loss. :ancientaliens:


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Edited by Sophistic Radiance (11/17/13 02:35 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: snoot]
    #19150034 - 11/17/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

snoot said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
yeah, because it's been shown that DMT (found in plants) is a fundamental building block to their development. you can reasonably assume that DMT has the same building block characteristics for humans, that say Tryptamine does; and thusly can presume that we also share the same instances of having endo-DMT in our molecular make-up.




Its been shown? Go on..........



hypothetically. all you have to do is read Strassman's book. it's hypothesized there.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Konyap] * 5
    #19150044 - 11/17/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
How come a bunch of drugged out hippies knew this already?

God?



Psychedelics can lead you directly to the tree of knowledge... Where all the information of existence awaits those who seek it.


--------------------
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Shroomopotamus]
    #19150308 - 11/17/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Progress is progress, but all it really shows us is that rats have DMT in their pineal gland. Are the procedures for detecting hallucinogens dangerous/require dead specimens? Because otherwise... We should have result by now.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Mungo man]
    #19150321 - 11/17/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mungo man said:
Progress is progress, but all it really shows us is that rats have DMT in their pineal gland. Are the procedures for detecting hallucinogens dangerous/require dead specimens? Because otherwise... We should have result by now.




This is a new technique that for the first time makes it possible to inspect the chemistry of a living organism's pineal gland. Prior to this, the only way to check out what was going on in there was to go straight through the brain, which (understandably) causes a lot of chemical changes.


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OfflineMungo man
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #19150813 - 11/17/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:



This is a new technique that for the first time makes it possible to inspect the chemistry of a living organism's pineal gland. Prior to this, the only way to check out what was going on in there was to go straight through the brain, which (understandably) causes a lot of chemical changes.




Brilliant! I didn't know that this was utilizing state of the art technology. This is interesting stuff. I'm going to university for organic chem/neuroscience and this stuff is always intriguing to me. I need to do some reading on this LC/MS/MS stuff. I wonder if this technology is realistically applicable in humans and I also wonder the type of data these tests yield.

Time to do some reading :laugh:


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Mungo man]
    #19150942 - 11/17/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Even if it's proven, I doubt little progress will be made in the legislation regarding DMT. Paranoid soccer moms and the DEA will still deem it a psychosis inducing scourge upon our society.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: schwarg]
    #19151034 - 11/17/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just want to point out that this evidence is actually Strassman and co proving their own hypothesis (although as applied to rat pineal glands). He published the results on his website (some institute or other) not too long ago.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: snoot]
    #19151270 - 11/17/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

DMT is invariably present in human blood, so anywhere there's blood in the body, there can also be DMT. I'd like to know if the concentration of DMT in the pineal gland is higher than that of other bodily tissue, taking into consideration the flesh/blood ratio. Last I've heard, DMT is primarily secreted from the lungs, according to Dr. Rick Strassman.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Space Elf]
    #19151283 - 11/17/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no wonder DMT smells like old man breath.


old men are basically shamans i guess now? :shrug:


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Offlines240779
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: snoot]
    #19151303 - 11/17/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

snoot said:
Would be nice to read the article.





Official Journal/ Academic Paper/ other authority request thread


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: s240779]
    #19225748 - 12/04/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

^ Someone was supposed to post a request for it. :smirk:


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: s240779] * 2
    #19225849 - 12/04/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)
Log in to view attachment

heres the full paper


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: spazmodog]
    #19225861 - 12/04/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks a lot Spazmo


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Beanhead]
    #19225866 - 12/04/13 09:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Seconded.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Beanhead]
    #19225868 - 12/04/13 09:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

no worries :thumbup:


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: snoot] * 1
    #19226114 - 12/04/13 10:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

To put this in perspective..

1..RAT pineal glands. Says nothing about the human situation.
2..Trace amount. Completely insufficient to produce psychoactive effects, in the same ballpark they found endogenously produced diazepam in potatoes.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Asante]
    #19226126 - 12/04/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
1..RAT pineal glands. Says nothing about the human situation.




But they've long found DMT in human urine.

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
2..Trace amount. Completely insufficient to produce psychoactive effects, in the same ballpark they found endogenously produced diazepam in potatoes.





Probably because they tested rat brains. It stands to reason that a much less intelligent species (not to mention much smaller, physically) like rats will have a miniscule amount of DMT.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: s240779]
    #19226164 - 12/04/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

But they've long found DMT in human urine.




Doesnt mean its in the pineal gland in significant concentrations though.

Quote:

Probably because they tested rat brains. It stands to reason that a much less intelligent species (not to mention much smaller, physically) like rats will have a miniscule amount of DMT.




Human pineal glands have been tested and they came up negative.


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OfflineEnvix
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Asante] * 1
    #19226289 - 12/04/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The presence of DMT in human blood and urine has been conclusively reported in a number of papers (Riceberg and van Vunakis, 1978)

if it's in human blood and urine, where do you think it comes from? where is it produced in the human body? the spleen?

c'mon. so it's in the third eye of live rats, but not in dead rats? what does that mean? they haven't found it in humans yet because they'd have to look for it in a LIVING pineal gland. anyone willing to have open brain surgery to test out this hypothesis?


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Envix] * 1
    #19226308 - 12/04/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Envix said:
The presence of DMT in human blood and urine has been conclusively reported in a number of papers (Riceberg and van Vunakis, 1978)

if it's in human blood and urine, where do you think it comes from? where is it produced in the human body? the spleen?

c'mon. so it's in the third eye of live rats, but not in dead rats? what does that mean? they haven't found it in humans yet because they'd have to look for it in a LIVING pineal gland. anyone willing to have open brain surgery to test out this hypothesis?





this.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Envix] * 1
    #19226385 - 12/04/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The presence of DMT in human blood and urine has been conclusively reported in a number of papers (Riceberg and van Vunakis, 1978)




I wasn't disputing that, i'm disputing the underlying poppycock of endogenous DMT trips, particularly NDE's being endogenous DMT trips.

Quote:

if it's in human blood and urine, where do you think it comes from?




I don't know, the enzymes of your intestinal flora or your blood itself interacting with tryptophan and its metabolites? Most serotonin receptors and indeed serotonin are outside of the brain.

Quote:

they haven't found it in humans yet because they'd have to look for it in a LIVING pineal gland.




You're jumping quite far ahead of whats been proven. Where are the DMT metabolites in the dead human pineal glands? Strassman tested them too, and that too came up negative.

Presence of, I repeat, TRACE amounts of DMT in blood and urine does not mean it originates in the brain, it does not mean it is actually being used as a neurotransmitter, and it does not mean endogenous DMT is significantly involved in human consciousness and/or Near Death Experiences.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Asante]
    #19227680 - 12/04/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Presence of, I repeat, TRACE amounts of DMT in blood and urine does not mean it originates in the brain, it does not mean it is actually being used as a neurotransmitter, and it does not mean endogenous DMT is significantly involved in human consciousness and/or Near Death Experiences.



uh, every drug in existence is involved in creating a conscious experience. where have you been?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Envix]
    #19227814 - 12/04/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

DMT can be a trace compound without function, a side reaction from tryptophan metabolites reacting with enzymes that are intended for creating other compounds.

Like potato benzodiazepines. They have no function in the organism, they just form in trace amounts as side reactions when enzyme systems alter contaminants.

That a substance can act as a drug is of no significance if it never naturally gets anywhere near levels that cause it to be active as a drug.

And theres zero proof for DMT in human pineal glands, zero proof DMT is present as a neurotransmitter rather than as a waste product and theres zero proof endogenous DMT ever gets up to amounts that generate a psychedelic experience.

They are beautiful thoughts, especially appealing to people taken by the mysticism of DMT, but there is no proof at this stage.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Asante]
    #19227823 - 12/04/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Wiccan_Seeker is right, but we still have to remain open to the idea that endogenous DMT plays a significant role in living things.


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OfflineEnvix
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Asante]
    #19227825 - 12/04/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

so a drug only qualifies as having a function if there's enough of it to create an altered conscious experience? wow, i really gotta change my definition of what a drug is


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smack a hoe out this dimension
continue my ascension
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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: s240779]
    #19227830 - 12/04/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

We must research the shit out of that because its a very promising starting point for a whole bunch of theories and applications.  But, we must not jump ahead of ourselves and with it discredit our own research to the wider scientific community, like Dr Strassman has done.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Asante]
    #19227837 - 12/04/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
like Dr Strassman has done.




Strassman came out with a statement where he criticized the lore that sprung up as a result of his book and said that the premise of his book was conjecture.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Envix]
    #19227842 - 12/04/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Envix said:
so a drug only qualifies as having a function if there's enough of it to create an altered conscious experience? wow, i really gotta change my definition of what a drug is





Naww you are twisting it up.

If a drug takes 20 milligram to produce a pharmacological effect and at most theres 20 nanogram present, it is of no consequence that it is a drug, because it fails to elicit any pharmacological response.

You know, just like a grain of rice doesnt make you well fed ad a nickel doesnt make you a millionaire.


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Asante]
    #19228167 - 12/04/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

wonderful, this has been a long time coming for an "i told you so" :awedance:


http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18333022/page/2

for fucks sake, we share 70% of our genes with most insects, how is this so hard to believe? its not anymore because its true :awedance:


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Re: Evidence finally shows n,n-DMT presence in pineal gland. [Re: Space Elf]
    #19228265 - 12/04/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

DMT Hyperspace is NOT where I want to end up, following this Earthly existence! I don't see why anyone would want to live there eternally or even temporarily. :trippinballs:


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