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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: So, lets say the temperature in the atmosphere is increasing. Then there would be an increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, as well as other gases.
It doesn't matter what the cause of the temperature increase was. It could be man made or natural.
Quote:
BlindSophist said: We're getting awfully nebulous here. Let's start talking about storms again.
http://www.weather.com/video/praying-through-the-tornado-41290
Well, I'll tell you what. Tell me why what I posted is true or not true--the amount of C02 in the atmosphere depends on the temperature, whether man made or natural.
C'mon, thrill us with your scientific acumen....
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IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH
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Sophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: starfire_xes]
#19152549 - 11/18/13 12:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I won't lie starfire, you have a much greater developed scientific acumen than I do and I've got a lot of respect for you in spite of this difference of opinion. I still think you're wrong, though. And from my understanding, deforestation combined with the constantly growing number of combustion engines in this world collaborate to drastically increase CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere, warming it, in addition to the release of methane and black carbon from coal and other activities which absorb heat as they float in the atmosphere and as they stand frozen in glaciers. The icecaps are melting, islands are disappearing, wildfire season is getting longer and more intense, snowfall in colorado is drastically reduced, etc.
I don't necessarily have a problem with the world changing, but the notion of a) my home being destroyed along with b) the earth being transformed into a sterile, lifeless ball of soot, more like Venus than anywhere anybody would want to call home, by thousands of generations of cumulative pollution is not something I want to get on board with.
I'm not sure I understand your claim that CO2 concentrations are increased by heat and not the other way around but I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say to back that up.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
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wow, a little bit of trust goes a long way.
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
Loc: HagsCrag, TLU
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: starfire_xes] 1
#19152562 - 11/18/13 12:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
We're getting awfully nebulous here. Let's start talking about storms again.
I like nebulae, damn you.

Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: So, lets say the temperature in the atmosphere is increasing. Then there would be an increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, as well as other gases.
It doesn't matter what the cause of the temperature increase was. It could be man made or natural.
Quote:
BlindSophist said: We're getting awfully nebulous here. Let's start talking about storms again.
http://www.weather.com/video/praying-through-the-tornado-41290
Well, I'll tell you what. Tell me why what I posted is true or not true--the amount of C02 in the atmosphere depends on the temperature, whether man made or natural.
C'mon, thrill us with your scientific acumen.... 
True, in that there are organisms on the planet, specifically plants, as well as algae and plankton in the oceans which produce greater amounts of CO2 in direct response to higher temperatures, and also due to the fact that warmer water more readily releases it's gases than does cold water. These responses (combined with what BlindSophist said above) are actually major contributors to a theoretical feedback cycle which could accelerate out of control if the temperature goes beyond a critical threshhold....
But I am unclear what point you are trying to make here... since the above does nothing but back up the claims of global warming and climate change.
Edited by Schmendrick (11/18/13 12:28 AM)
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
I'm not sure I understand your claim that CO2 concentrations are increased by heat and not the other way around but I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say to back that up.
It's called henry's law. It has to do with solubility of gases in liquids under a constant partial pressure.
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IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19152575 - 11/18/13 12:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schmendrick said:
Quote:
We're getting awfully nebulous here. Let's start talking about storms again.
I like nebulae, damn you.

Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: So, lets say the temperature in the atmosphere is increasing. Then there would be an increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, as well as other gases.
It doesn't matter what the cause of the temperature increase was. It could be man made or natural.
Quote:
BlindSophist said: We're getting awfully nebulous here. Let's start talking about storms again.
http://www.weather.com/video/praying-through-the-tornado-41290
Well, I'll tell you what. Tell me why what I posted is true or not true--the amount of C02 in the atmosphere depends on the temperature, whether man made or natural.
C'mon, thrill us with your scientific acumen.... 
True, in that there are organisms on the planet, specifically algae and plankton in the oceans which produce greater amounts of CO2 in direct response to higher temperatures, and also in due to the fact that warmer water more readily releases it's gases than does cold water. These responses (combined with what BlindSophist said above) are actually major contributors to a theoretical feedback cycle which could accelerate out of control if the temperature goes beyond a critical threshhold....
But I am unclear what point you are trying to make here... since the above does nothing but back up the claims of global warming and climate change.
Right. But it has everything to do with whether the cause is man-made or not.
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IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: starfire_xes]
#19152583 - 11/18/13 12:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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good point.
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: starfire_xes]
#19152589 - 11/18/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are you arguing that perhaps the initial trigger was man-made (or not), but that the subsequent increases over the previous decades have been due to said feedback cycles? This has been tested and shown not to be the case. The CO2 levels in the atmosphere have increased since the beginning of the industrial revolution, whereas the actual temperature increases have been much more recent. This is due to the fact that the temperature forcings happen on a delay from the actual introduction of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.
Certain stability buffers and threshholds need to be exceeded before the feedback loops can take effect.
Edited by Schmendrick (11/18/13 01:05 AM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19152596 - 11/18/13 12:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i like learning stuff. makes me feel smarter.
anti-humor, FTW.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: starfire_xes]
#19152602 - 11/18/13 12:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You mean that the atmosphere is able to absorb more CO2 if it gets hotter? Sure, but you can't discount the impact of particles suspended in the atmosphere, such as soot from coal burning, that absorb light and increase ambient temperature. You also can't discount the fact that this process would be fed by the depletion of CO2-absorbing foliage while industrial development continues to spew soot into the atmosphere. It looks to me like a feedback loop with many components, some of which may not be anthropogenic but many of which indisputably are.
If natural climate variability is the genesis of the current climate cycle, it has only provided a window of opportunity for the feedback loop I've described to take control of climate patterns. Even if nature "started" it, we're still significantly exaggerating its impact and duration. The atmosphere's ability to absorb CO2 makes no comment on the actual quantity of CO2 ready to be absorbed by it, which we have increased substantially with industry.
And I agree that CO2 shouldn't be considered a "pollutant" but methane and soot? Fuck yes, they are possibly greater culprits in climate change and broadly ignored. And we need more trees and plant life in general in this world, dammit. We should be taking advantage of this excess CO2 situation to create kickass megagardens.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (11/18/13 12:54 AM)
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
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I am off to bed Starfire, BlindSophist and Akira_Akuma. I will see how this thread has progressed in the morning. Good night. If you have anything nasty to say about me, now is the time to do it since I will not be able to defend myself.
Starfire, I am sorry for getting so heated earlier. I hope you can understand that I get pretty hot under the collar about subjects that I care about. I do not doubt your credentials or your intelligence, only your knowledge in this particular subject. But ignorance, unlike stupidity, can be beaten through concerted effort.
This is not to say I am perfect in my knowledge of climate science. You may yet prove me wrong. I only hope you are as open as I am to changing your opinion in the face of evidence.
NIGHT!!
Edited by Schmendrick (11/18/13 12:51 AM)
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Sophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19152629 - 11/18/13 12:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sleep tight!
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
Loc: HagsCrag, TLU
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Quote:
And I agree that CO2 shouldn't be considered a "pollutant" but methane and soot? Fuck yes, they are possibly greater culprits in climate change and broadly ignored. And we need more trees and plant life in general in this world, dammit. We should be taking advantage of this excess CO2 situation to create kickass megagardens.
Yes, but instead we are slashing and burning our forests, converting lush grasslands to desert through overzealous agriculture and coating the surface of the earth in heat-reflective asphalt and concrete to create our cities and highways, putting even more energy into the atmosphere.
That is my last post for tonight. I am really gone now. Ciao.
Edited by Schmendrick (11/18/13 01:10 AM)
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chutney
slappin' the whiners
Registered: 07/26/13
Posts: 402
Last seen: 11 months, 8 days
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19154496 - 11/18/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: I'm pretty sure a 97% consensus among experts that at least part of climate change is anthropogenic can be called "science agreeing".
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article
If you deny anthropogenic climate change, there is a 97% chance that you don't know wtf you're talking about.
did you actually read that? only 32% of the 11000 published papers on climate change expressed support, fewer still supported the anthropogenic factor in climate change
32% is somehow not 97%
Did YOU actually read it? Here is an excerpt from that article for you since you apparently don't know how to read and comprehend information:
Quote:
"Among abstracts expressing a position on AGW, 97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming"
the 32% you refer to is a total percentage of published meteorological white paper abstracts which specifically endorsed the AGW over the 20 year period from 1991 to 2001. Many of them did not offer an opinion on the subject. The 97.1% number is the percentage of abstracts published which expressed an opinion on the subject and specifically endorsed the idea.
Here is another excerpt:
Quote:
' For both abstract ratings and authors' self-ratings, the percentage of endorsements among papers expressing a position on AGW marginally increased over time. Our analysis indicates that the number of papers rejecting the consensus on AGW is a vanishingly small proportion of the published research.'

Prisoner calls someone out saying "did you not READ the link you posted?" then gets caught red-handed not reading it himself 
Let's all pretend like that didnt happen though
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Not Responding
Busted Liar...


Registered: 09/17/13
Posts: 6,755
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: chutney]
#19154573 - 11/18/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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so were there like any killer tornadies or was this a pointless thread about shit getting hot?
-------------------- Dear Kratom, I've been numb for so long that I forgot how to feel So I don't care if it will break my heart, Just fuck me till I disappear
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Mush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: starfire_xes]
#19154588 - 11/18/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: Well, I'll tell you what. Tell me why what I posted is true or not true--the amount of C02 in the atmosphere depends on the temperature, whether man made or natural.
What you say is true, but tell me whether or not it is true that there is an almost unprecedented amount of CO2 in the atmosphere due to the burning of fossil fuels?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19154803 - 11/18/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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nice wording.
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Not Responding
Busted Liar...


Registered: 09/17/13
Posts: 6,755
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19154820 - 11/18/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- Dear Kratom, I've been numb for so long that I forgot how to feel So I don't care if it will break my heart, Just fuck me till I disappear
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: Not Responding]
#19156847 - 11/18/13 09:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Not Responding said:

That's a beautiful penis (looks a bit jaundiced though), but it's not really relevant to the conversation at hand.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: Are you guys seeing this weather report?? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19156928 - 11/18/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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nah, it's relevant to him to let me know his distaste for me. i think the official term is butthurt.
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