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Invisiblecactusguy213
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Debating Suicide
    #19148375 - 11/17/13 03:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hi everyone,
I am posting this here today because I am near the end of my rope. I have struggled with severe depression for a large portion of my life. I am 21 I have fought this disease since I was 15. I have everything anyone could ever hope for. Support from my parents; both emotional and financial. Great friends. A loving girlfriend. I have all these things despite many shortcomings. In the last few years I have become many things that I would have never imagined I would ever become prior to this depression.
I am a user of drugs. All of them. I am a college drop out. I am not financially independent. I am a failure as both a son and a brother. I have come very close to suicide many times. The only thing that ever held me back was my brother. I don't want him to ever feel anything close to the pain I feel everyday. I understand that suicide is a violent and devastating thing, but I don't know where else to turn.
I have tried all the medical profession has to offer. Pharmaceutical help. Counseling. Diet and exercise. Vitamin supplements. And a combination thereof. Nothing has improved. I am still depressed. I am still anxious. I see no reason to continue living. I would love nothing more than to just throw in the towel forever, yet I can't.
  I feel an obligation to several family members, and my girlfriend. Despite the pain, despite my desire to just end it, I can't. I know the devastation my actions would bring so I refrain. Everyday that goes by I find it harder to restrain myself. I don't know what to do. I want so bad to just exit stage left. what can I do to make this go away? I have tried the drugs. The counseling. The routine change. What else can I do to make this stop? This is no way to live a lifetime.(A side note: I am not currently in crisis and debating life or death. I am just trying to get some more information before I make such a decision. Looking for help. Not making a cry for one.)


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Invisiblecactusguy213
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cactusguy213]
    #19148389 - 11/17/13 03:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I guess what I should have really ask now that I think about it is what are the moral implications surrounding the act of suicide, and what are the reasonings behind those decisions of morality.


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cactusguy213] * 2
    #19148394 - 11/17/13 03:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Go for a healing.


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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OfflineEverything
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cactusguy213] * 1
    #19148436 - 11/17/13 04:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Have you tried living differently? It seems the life your living isn't what you want, the drug use, dependence financially, and dropping out all seem to make you unhappy but those are all choices you can make.

You should try some new methods, don't give up man you'll be dead soon enough without commit suicide. Just take it all as an experience don't look at it as good or bad just as what it is. In the end do what you think is right however you will die and it will all be over eventually so why not just live till it stops? As far as we know you can't decide to switch back to living after death so why not just experience?

Please answer that for me.

Have you considered meditation? The kind of meditation I've been getting into is about consciously asking yourself about the things you think. When a thought comes into your head try to dissect why your thinking it, the triggers to the thought, what outside factor have you sensed that has brought upon this thought? .... Really you can ponder things all day, I quite like it.

Just ask yourself if its worth taking yourself out of this world and effectively making everything you have ever known dissapear. Is it worth leaving more pain, more negativity on everything you've known once you go?

If you really just want to kill yourself why not sacrifice your life in another way, besides ending it? Why not do something for other people that could really use your help? You have potential to do so much good yet you would rather just not exist?

Think about if the life your living is right for you, maybe it's not living but just the way your living?


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OfflineDiscoMonsta
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Icyus]
    #19148457 - 11/17/13 04:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I saw this and I felt I had to say something even though tonight I don't feel like doing fuck all. I have been there I have been the failure of a son dragged my family name through the shit that my father worked so hard to renew and succeed as a respectable local businessesman. I sold drugs and I've taken most everything took a heap of acid and copped a mad ego death dropped out of uni kept selling gear bashed cunts for no reason or for money felt like shit thought about necking myself heaps of times didn't for the same reason.
I got out of there man. Got away from everyone slowing me down. I moved to a new town got a job offsiding a drill rig underground in the mines couldmt take drugs because of testing that's a good thing I started to get pride in myself again I had money in my pocket goals and some sort of drive.
Offsiding is a shit job but gave me confidence I could do thibgs. I got an apprenticeship d now I have a faith in myself I have self respect and serious goals.
If you're not working go get fucking job do something to make yourself feel as valuable as you are to those around you


--------------------
Shit... this joint goes alright eh
:crazy2::crazy2::crazy2:Go Hard As YoU Can:crazy2::crazy2::crazy2:


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Anonymous #1

Re: Debating Suicide [Re: DiscoMonsta]
    #19148538 - 11/17/13 05:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

When the only available option seems to be suicide you should consider than even being a heroin addict is a better choice. But don't become a heroin addict. What I meant was that short of harming others or yourself you could take a step in ANY direction - (I know that when I was at my black I decided to go to law school - which I dropped out of after a year). Take a step towards any new horizon.  Make a break with the past.

Don't kill yourself, kill the situation.

After my suicide attempt - in the psycheward - a psychiatrist said something really meaningful to me (I know - how uncommon!). He said imagine nothingness, now imagine feeling hungry and cold and miserable, that sensation is at least something, there is life there.  But nothingness, there's no life there. 

Also, you need to learn to count your blessings daily. We all naturally fixate on the negative and that's the way we are educated and trained from birth, first to stop shitting our diapers, next in every little thing.  We criticize ourselves beyond its usefulness.

If your instrument is in tune it's time to play. Time for tuning, and then time for playing.  If you keep on tuning then you will get out of tune again.


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cactusguy213]
    #19148565 - 11/17/13 06:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Killing yourself is such a big ordeal. I've thought about it but I'm way too lazy. You don't have to work at it. Death is gonna get ya. There's no moral whatever. It's your body to throw away if you want to. It's not like you owe it to anyone to fucking live. I find it a little liberating to know I don't even care enough to do it. People doing all this emotional gearing up and the following through with suicide. I'm about as likely to paint my kitchen or reinstall my fire alarms or shave. Too much fucking work.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Anonymous #1

Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cactusguy213]
    #19148690 - 11/17/13 07:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cactusguy213 said:
Hi everyone,
I am posting this here today because I am near the end of my rope. I have struggled with severe depression for a large portion of my life. I am 21 I have fought this disease since I was 15. I have everything anyone could ever hope for. Support from my parents; both emotional and financial. Great friends. A loving girlfriend. I have all these things despite many shortcomings. In the last few years I have become many things that I would have never imagined I would ever become prior to this depression.
I am a user of drugs. All of them. I am a college drop out. I am not financially independent. I am a failure as both a son and a brother. I have come very close to suicide many times. The only thing that ever held me back was my brother. I don't want him to ever feel anything close to the pain I feel everyday. I understand that suicide is a violent and devastating thing, but I don't know where else to turn.
I have tried all the medical profession has to offer. Pharmaceutical help. Counseling. Diet and exercise. Vitamin supplements. And a combination thereof. Nothing has improved. I am still depressed. I am still anxious. I see no reason to continue living. I would love nothing more than to just throw in the towel forever, yet I can't.
  I feel an obligation to several family members, and my girlfriend. Despite the pain, despite my desire to just end it, I can't. I know the devastation my actions would bring so I refrain. Everyday that goes by I find it harder to restrain myself. I don't know what to do. I want so bad to just exit stage left. what can I do to make this go away? I have tried the drugs. The counseling. The routine change. What else can I do to make this stop? This is no way to live a lifetime.(A side note: I am not currently in crisis and debating life or death. I am just trying to get some more information before I make such a decision. Looking for help. Not making a cry for one.)




If you commit suicide you will be the source of depression for those around you and you will have passed the baton of depression onto them. You will be telling them they are shit. 

Also suicide is extremely expensive. The whole death scenario with burial and therapy for the rest of their lives will cost countless amounts of money and resources. 

Also, if you end up not dying you can say - say you fuck up your wrists and lose use of your hands, or say you fuck up your brain and can no longer think or speak. Say you fuck up your liver or kidneys and have to have a colostomy bag.

Say you get stopped and put into a facility - it costs thousands of dollars. 

You need to fucking count your blessings while you have them.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #19150902 - 11/17/13 05:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not everybody wants to live.  I respect OP's right to make that decision but encourage him/her to carefully weigh their options and make a rational choice instead of one based on temporary emotion


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cactusguy213]
    #19152217 - 11/17/13 10:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Consider filling your head with philosophy.

"The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle is great.
Anything by Alan Watts or Ram Dass is uplifting too.

Meditation can be life changing as well. :thumbup:
To stay on the book trail, "Beginners Mind" by Shunryu Suzuki offers not only a way to proper meditation practice, but also a nice approach to thinking.


Feed your mind with the knowledge of great thinkers.
I hope you hang in there..Always remember "This too shall pass."


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Anonymous #2

Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cez]
    #19152332 - 11/17/13 11:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
"This too shall pass."



Not always.

but yeah it sounds like OP's situation isnt too dramatic tho


Edited by Anonymous (11/17/13 11:05 PM)


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19152342 - 11/17/13 11:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

How do you figure "not always?"

Life is change.


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OfflineJohnny Depp
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cez]
    #19152353 - 11/17/13 11:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

.


Edited by Johnny Depp (12/19/14 05:39 PM)


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OfflineEverything
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Johnny Depp]
    #19152419 - 11/17/13 11:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ah man, I hate the idea of people taking anti depressants.

OP we are all rooting for you man!


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Anonymous #2

Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cez]
    #19152504 - 11/17/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
How do you figure "not always?"

Life is change.



teminal disease doesn't go away. 

some circumstances don't change.

for example if you got drunk and killed someone and sobered up and regretted it, you cant un-kill them.

etc.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19152644 - 11/18/13 01:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Terminal disease goes away when the body can no longer tolerate it.


You can't undo the past...idk how that example nullifies the statement "life is change."

You are referring to conditions whereas I'm referring to perceptions.
Some conditions (like past events) can't change but your perception on those conditions do change.


Edited by cez (11/18/13 01:06 AM)


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Anonymous #2

Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cez]
    #19152739 - 11/18/13 02:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Terminal disease goes away when the body can no longer tolerate it.


You can't undo the past...idk how that example nullifies the statement "life is change."

You are referring to conditions whereas I'm referring to perceptions.
Some conditions (like past events) can't change but your perception on those conditions do change.



Just as "life is change" does not nullify my statement of "not always" refuting the statement "this too shall pass"


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19152773 - 11/18/13 02:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I wasn't trying to nullify your statement because mine preceded yours :tongue2:

I'm talking tomatoes and your talking oranges.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cez]
    #19153683 - 11/18/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:pokerawe:

touche


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OfflineJohnny Depp
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Everything]
    #19154346 - 11/18/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

.


Edited by Johnny Depp (12/19/14 05:39 PM)


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Offlineweshroom
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Johnny Depp]
    #19154520 - 11/18/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

OP, i know you say you;ve tried routine change as well as all those other changes. But if your life doesnt feel worth it but you still feel the obligation and effects it could have on those loved ones.... then just think about the effects it could have on other people if you chose to use this life to serve others in some way.
Join something like the peace corps, become a special ed teacher, volunteer places where there is suffering and any little bit you do can help. Maybe you will feel this and it might slowly change your perception of life.

Also, try everything before you jump to making a decision like that. Have you tried going to south america and taking part in ayahuasca ceremonies? You could join the aya forum and find out about different healers and communities and give that a shot. Its worth a shot!

I love you and hope that you can find peace with this life to where you know in your heart that this experience is sacred and worth living.
:heart:


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: weshroom]
    #19158911 - 11/19/13 09:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

OP, a few thoughts for you to consider:

The more supporting the environment, the easier it is to start feeling like you haven't earned it. This applies to job, school, gf, house, everything.

The happiest I've ever been in my life so far were times living under an open sky (didn't even have a tent) at a psy festival, with awesome awesome friends. Two meals a day, terrible water, sleeping on horrible rocks with a cheapo sleeping bag. Best. Times. Ever. Then coming back, via Spain, being completely broke and having to use my brain to find food and water and stuff, without begging or being inconsiderate to others. Again, awesome times as I was present and active, not endlessly overthinking.

The most miserable times ever were when I had a nice paying job (that I felt came because of family/name, not personal skills), a nice car (not mine, given by parents) and was living in nice places I haven't earned. Being given excessive support is a surefire way to erode your sense of worth as a young man, making you feel like shit. I've been there, it sucks major major balls.

Now if you ever post again in this thread, please answer me this:

- Have you ever been to a psy festival, with nothing more than a backpack, if possible with money you made yourself?

- Have you ever tried an Aya ceremony? Don't waste my time saying you've tried "the drugs" as that's retarded. I am talking Aya, and I am talking ceremony, not your couch.

- Have you tried getting away from that massive massive support structure that seems to put enormous pressure on you, in terms of feeling like you're not worthy of it?

I don't think you'll be able to fix your problems as long as you continue to live in such close proximity to their source. Just try a camping trip in the wilderness somewhere, see how you feel.

Oh and how's your Omega 3 levels? THis is just secondary. Over at the festival I didn't have nor need Omega 3 pills. Being in the right context is much better than taking the right supplements or nutrition. The right community goes a long long way :thumbup:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineYesod
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cactusguy213]
    #19162896 - 11/19/13 11:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

divine intervention


--------------------
May we all not take the roleplay too far, for enjoyment only, not for enslaving beings :smile:, the game can be turned off at any time.


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OfflineEverything
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Spacerific]
    #19162960 - 11/19/13 11:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I dig what you're saying, even if OP doesn't come back, that was a great post.


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Everything]
    #19163280 - 11/20/13 01:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Coming out of 7+ years of schizophrenia and depression, I am one of those people convinced suicide is just a chemical thing. It just seems so real. It really, really just seems that way. It's brain chemistry and the mysterious impact it has on the mind, that's all it is...

There is nothing important or interesting about the depression, no matter how bad you've had it. I've gone into the depths of crushing, cosmic despair... and I come out of it unscathed and realising it was just a perturbation in what this device in my head is doing.

If you don't drink enough water, you will have a muscle cramp. If you don't have enough serotonin (or something, etc.), you will have a mind cramp.

Sometimes we think, "oh but what a monstrosity this existence is, how could we possibly go on, with such pitiful states available" but all we know is, we're a biological machine, and it just goes wrong sometimes.

So I don't know, I hope explaining what a depression is helps you.

When people say you should stick through it, trust me, this coming from a 7 year schizophrenia and depression veteran, you should do exactly that.

There is something in the way the mind/brain works that makes eternal hells emerge. They vanish one day... and you're like, oh, now I get it, and you get on with it.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Invisiblecactusguy213
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: circastes]
    #19228647 - 12/04/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Still hanging on. Thanks everyone for your support. I still haven't got a clue what I should do. The worst part about this is that despite many positive changes I've made in my life this problem persists. I'm going back to school. I've been making more money than a significant portion of people my age. Yet I still think about just ending this on a daily basis. I can't even remember a day without thinking of it. I think it'll be back to the doctor again soon. Maybe there's another option out there. A pill that doesn't make me crazy like all the SSRI's have. That sort of emotional painkiller comes at a higher price than I am willing to pay. I become completely indifferent to everything as well as violently impulsive. I've managed to changed nearly everything I thought was responsible for of all this emotional anguish to no avail. Depression is a cold hearted bitch. Runs in the family unfortunately. Sucks so much joy out of what should otherwise be a very joyful life. Just ranting right now I guess. Really only posted this in case anyone was wondering if I offed myself, and figured it would be rude to not respond to all of you who offered advice and support. Thank you all again. I guess I'll just try everything medicine has to offer until I either find something that works or run out of options completely. I don't want to pass this baton of misery to family and friends. If only people would just tell me they understood that I was out of steam, and that I was free to go at the time of my choosing.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cactusguy213]
    #19229068 - 12/04/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hey pal,

First of all, if you want to off yourself you shouldn't tell anyone. That's how people get paramedics or SWAT teams showing up to take them away to the booby house. Even online sites like this might have your ip and get things rolling. Thats one of main reasons people think its OK to betray others, they think they're helping them. :rolleyes:

Quote:

I have tried all the medical profession has to offer. Pharmaceutical help. Counseling. Diet and exercise. Vitamin supplements. And a combination thereof. Nothing has improved. I am still depressed. I am still anxious. I see no reason to continue living.



Yeah, none of that bull crap helps. Organic vegetables and exercise won't do anything but upset your digestion and aggrevate your asthma.

Quote:

What else can I do to make this stop?



Embrace the darkness. Become a villain. I sold my soul for rock n roll.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineLifeKnowingLife
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cactusguy213]
    #19229123 - 12/04/13 09:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've debated suicide many times but I don't think it will get you to a better world or realm.  You will just be born back into this animal realm, maybe in a worse position.  I don't know... I have a whole new outlook on life after reading "The Present" at www.truthcontest.com ~ check it out, might help you too.


--------------------
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: LifeKnowingLife]
    #19230181 - 12/05/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I guess I'll just try everything medicine has to offer until I either find something that works or run out of options completely.



Have you even read my post? I pointed out several things that as far as I can see, you haven't tried, and probably not even considered before.

Did you even read that stuff or you can't be bothered?

If you're just looking for sympathy and to "talk about your feelings" like some girls do, without actually solving the problem, then :crymeariver: :satansmoking:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: Spacerific]
    #19232891 - 12/05/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm a mushroom guy so I don't really post here but maybe here's a interesting stat,I think its like 90% of people who came very close to death by suicide and survived said they were extremely happy nnot to have succeded and gained a new look at life

Just when you think its the end and you can't take it anymore,its the start of the beginning


--------------------


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: steelmonkey]
    #19234446 - 12/05/13 11:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Depression has a theme of hopelessness that makes it seem like time is running out. If you've been depressed for years it can seem very real that your life is wasting away and it can reach quite an intensity. Don't worry, it's all in your head. If you can somehow come back to normal that feeling goes away.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Invisiblecactusguy213
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: circastes]
    #19237821 - 12/06/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you all again. Have an appointment with a shrink. Planning a short backpacking trip next summer with a friend. Having things in the future to look forward to helps a little. One day at a time. Maybe I'll be rid of this someday.


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Debating Suicide [Re: cactusguy213]
    #19238151 - 12/06/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Not sure where to continue this, over :pm: or here, but in the interest of transparency, let's do it here.

Have you tripped at all?

I see only one other relevant thread, with you planning some cactus extraction. Did you try it before? Did you give shrooming a try? Good acid? Anything good and trippy until now?

I used to be INCREDIBLY depressed and miserable when I was younger, and psychs have been complete game changers for me. Not just in terms of how they made me feel, but in bringing me to meet such amazing awesome people and communities, that forget about it. Even if I die tomorrow, I know it won't have lived in vain. At least a few days/weeks of my life, I have truly lived. While depressed, I have not.

Take any medical advice with a grain of salt (as I'm not a doctor) but IMO when it comes to bringing back the good vibes, you're in much better hands with a shaman, curandero, ayahuasquero or NAC people at a Peyote Sweat lodge, than you are with your local pharma pill pusher.

You mentioned in a pm that you don't like festivals. Let's be a bit more specific here. Have you actually showed up at a psy festival, and dropped good acid / shrooms there, and you didn't like it?

I would look for people that know what they're doing, with ceremonies and traditions of psych use, not just the plant itself. At least to set the stage a few times see what to expect. Like drinking alone at home and drinking out with friends are totally different experiences, so it is will psychs. Many times they're better if they're shared. :tripping::tripping::tripping:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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