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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
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Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek
#19148290 - 11/17/13 02:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hello, I am JMcDoogle.
I do not advocate anyone in doing this. Its truly an experiment.
I have taken 1. 35 PND Tidy Cats Plastic PP5 Container and Submerged into my 23 qt Pressure Cooker, Fits Like a Glove. It is on top of a rack.
The contents inside are 1 Brick Coir 2.5 Quarts Verm 4.5 Quarts Water and tablespoon of granular gypsum.
This is currently underway, as in while I am posting this, the box is heating up to temperature slowly. I just thought you folks would like to enjoy a decent laugh. I will taking temperature readings on the top and middle of the sub, I'll inform you of the results later.
So, What do you guys think? Is this a viable method at achieving a properly pasteurized bulk substrate? I can easily monitor internal temperatures by looking into the container via the lid. I can easily fit 2 Bricks of Coir worth of material into this ( 2 66 Qt Monos Worth ) and probably more if I were to compact it. The plastic heats up, but does not become its own heater, its a thick plastic.
Quote:
Notahacker420 said: If it works it works....
If you can keep the internal temp between 140F and 170F for 60-90 minutes you are good.
I use the same kitty litter.....lol.

15-20 Mins Into Simmer
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
Edited by JMcDoogle (11/17/13 03:34 AM)
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LiquidGlass
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148311 - 11/17/13 03:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I vacuum seal the sub then put it in the pc at 165-175 for 2 hours. Reading the temp of the water
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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OgreLokon
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: LiquidGlass]
#19148315 - 11/17/13 03:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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PussyFart
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: LiquidGlass]
#19148317 - 11/17/13 03:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LiquidGlass said: I vacuum seal the sub then put it in the pc at 165-175 for 2 hours. Reading the temp of the water
Why would you monitor the water temp when that is irrelevant?
You should be monitoring the internal core temp of the substrate, not the water.
The water is always going to be hotter than the internal core temp of the substrate, which is ok.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (11/17/13 03:07 AM)
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OgreLokon
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148321 - 11/17/13 03:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: I vacuum seal the sub then put it in the pc at 165-175 for 2 hours. Reading the temp of the water
Why would you monitor the water temp when that is irrelevant?
You should be monitoring the internal core temp of the substrate, not the water.
The water is always going to be hotter than the internal core temp of the substrate, which is ok.
Always? I ask because I have an induction cooker which gives me precise control over my temps. If I pasteurized at 170* wouldn't it end up being 170*? Even if it took a while?
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148324 - 11/17/13 03:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Its working better than I thought, seeing as I can fit 2 bricks of coir into this thing at once.
Anyone think Im an idiot?
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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PussyFart
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148327 - 11/17/13 03:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
OgreLokon said: Always?
Yes....the water temp is not what matters....the substrates core temp is.
Look at any good pasteurization tek and it will say the same thing.....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148332 - 11/17/13 03:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: I vacuum seal the sub then put it in the pc at 165-175 for 2 hours. Reading the temp of the water
Why would you monitor the water temp when that is irrelevant?
You should be monitoring the internal core temp of the substrate, not the water.
The water is always going to be hotter than the internal core temp of the substrate, which is ok.
I was doing the bucket tek before and did not really like it as I do not use bricks of coir and I use different amounts of sub sometimes. A while back I made a good friend and it turned out he grew mushrooms too, and he showed me this way.
I assume the temp being in the 165-175 range would make up for the water being hotter since pasteurization temps are a bit lower. i also think the 2 hour time period allows enough time for it to reach internal temp. There would be no way to test the internal temp because I would have to pierce the bag and that would let water in.
This method has worked for me for a long time and I am pretty satisfied with the results. I say, why fix it if it is not broken
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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PussyFart
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: LiquidGlass]
#19148338 - 11/17/13 03:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LiquidGlass said: i also think the 2 hour time period allows enough time for it to reach internal temp. There would be no way to test the internal temp because I would have to pierce the bag and that would let water in.
Do not submerge the top of the bags...then no water can get in when you poke your tiny hole in the top of one of them.
You know what they say about assuming things.....
Monitor the internal temp, not the water.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (11/17/13 03:26 AM)
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148346 - 11/17/13 03:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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NAH.
What do you think about MY pasteurization method?
Seems simple enough right?
Put Sub into Big Ass Kitty Litter Box, Put into PC with Water. Monitor Internal Temperatures. Reach 140'F Allow 1-1 1/2 Hours of Time to Pass Take Out Of Heat.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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PussyFart
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148351 - 11/17/13 03:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If it works it works....
If you can keep the internal temp between 140F and 170F for 60-90 minutes you are good.
I use the same kitty litter.....lol.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148354 - 11/17/13 03:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said: If it works it works....
If you can keep the internal temp between 140F and 170F for 60-90 minutes you are good.
I use the same kitty litter.....lol.
 
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148360 - 11/17/13 03:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: i also think the 2 hour time period allows enough time for it to reach internal temp. There would be no way to test the internal temp because I would have to pierce the bag and that would let water in.
Do not submerge the top of the bags...then no water can get in when you poke your tiny hole in the top of one of them.
You know what they say about assuming things.....
Monitor the internal temp, not the water.
I do know what they say about assuming things, but with the results I have and how long I have been doing, it is safe for me to assume it is a good method. If I ever got any contams before the first flush I might reconsider my method. This way works the best for me and with the least amount of hassle
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: LiquidGlass]
#19148361 - 11/17/13 03:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bahaha. I've got the NAH seal of approval.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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PussyFart
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: LiquidGlass]
#19148363 - 11/17/13 03:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I know bro.....I was just sayin.....
Like I said, if it works it works.....
There is still something about not knowing what the core temp is that irks me....lol.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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PussyFart
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148364 - 11/17/13 03:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JMcDoogle said: Bahaha. I've got the NAH seal of approval.

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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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OgreLokon
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148366 - 11/17/13 03:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
OgreLokon said: Always?
Yes....the water temp is not what matters....the substrates core temp is.
Look at any good pasteurization tek and it will say the same thing.....
But what I'm saying, is that the temp of the water will be 170*... Wouldn't it all eventually be 170*? Granted it would be faster to boil the water, but if things are submerged, wouldn't it all end up being 170*?
Or is pastueurization some thing as steaming BEF jars, where the water doesn't come in contact with it? I'm an amateur chef, and have ALL the sweet cooking toys, and have been wondering how I can mesh the two (I'm also a homebrewer, and cooking really helps with that as well). The amount of time dealing with the kitchen is irrelevant to me, since I'm paying attention to 100 things at once anyway. I'm just looking for ways to make things more precise once I transition from cakes to tubs.
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LiquidGlass
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148368 - 11/17/13 03:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Looks like you are ready for the zombie apocalypse with the neon green taped weapons. I have only one gun, but plan on getting more. I go shooting all the time though
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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PussyFart
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148377 - 11/17/13 03:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
OgreLokon said: But what I'm saying, it that the temp of the water will be 170*... Wouldn't it all eventually be 170*? Granted it would be faster to boil the water, but if things are submerged, wouldn't it all end up being 170?
Sure, eventually.....but by then a lot of the substrate would be "over pasteurized", in a sense.
Not really sure if it's possible to "over pasteurize", but I have not seen a single tek reccomend to keep the core in the proper temp range for more than 2 hours...
There must be a reason why 60-90 minutes is the recommended amount of pasteurization time and not 60-300 minutes......lol.
IDK....just sayin......I'm really tired and high right now.....the zombies are coming.......
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148378 - 11/17/13 03:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im onto something.
I can feel it.
23 + Qt PC Folks and Cat Owners...
UNITE!
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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OgreLokon
Pretty Fun Guy


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148388 - 11/17/13 03:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
OgreLokon said: But what I'm saying, it that the temp of the water will be 170*... Wouldn't it all eventually be 170*? Granted it would be faster to boil the water, but if things are submerged, wouldn't it all end up being 170?
Sure, eventually.....but by then a lot of the substrate would be "over pasteurized", in a sense.
Not really sure if it's possible to "over pasteurize", but I have not seen a single tek reccomend to keep the core in the proper temp range for more than 2 hours...
There must be a reason why 60-90 minutes is the recommended amount of pasteurization time and not 60-300 minutes......lol.
IDK....just sayin......I'm really tired and high right now.....the zombies are coming.......
I could set it at 170* for 12 hours if I wanted. It's not like the water is gonna boil off. Let's just say I have a LOT of free time, and I spend more time in my kitchen than in my bedroom. I've even started some inoculated grain jars steaming for 12 hours because I don't have a PC. I just want to know what I can and can't do with this hobby. I already started with a bag of shake, four 1 pt jars, plus a 10 gal aquarium, and don't want to push my luck without need.
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PussyFart
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148393 - 11/17/13 03:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
OgreLokon said: I already started with a bag of shake, four 1 pt jars, plus a 10 gal aquarium, and don't want to push my luck without need.
Not really sure what "shake" is, or what you are going to do with an aquarium in this hobby.......
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
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Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148396 - 11/17/13 03:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im guessing spores from the bottom of a bag of purchased mushrooms?
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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OgreLokon
Pretty Fun Guy


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148400 - 11/17/13 04:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
OgreLokon said: I already started with a bag of shake, four 1 pt jars, plus a 10 gal aquarium, and don't want to push my luck without need.
Not really sure what "shake" is, or what you are going to do with an aquarium in this hobby.......
"shake" from a bag of mushrooms, and an "aquarium", as in my FC. I know neither was ideal, but it worked. I know my FC should be an SGFC, but it just can't be at the moment. I'd like to move to monotubs, but can in no sense afford a PC bigger than the one I currently have, and 4qt really sucks.
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OgreLokon
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148401 - 11/17/13 04:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JMcDoogle said: Im guessing spores from the bottom of a bag of purchased mushrooms?

Edited by OgreLokon (11/17/13 04:04 AM)
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148403 - 11/17/13 04:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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More power to ya bud!
Hope everything works!!!
--------------------
The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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PussyFart
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148407 - 11/17/13 04:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
OgreLokon said:
Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
OgreLokon said: I already started with a bag of shake, four 1 pt jars, plus a 10 gal aquarium, and don't want to push my luck without need.
Not really sure what "shake" is, or what you are going to do with an aquarium in this hobby.......
"shake" from a bag of mushrooms,
I really hope you plan on using agar if you plan to do anything but eating that shake....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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OgreLokon
Pretty Fun Guy


Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 512
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148409 - 11/17/13 04:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JMcDoogle said: More power to ya bud!
Hope everything works!!!
Well, so far everything has. The first syringe I made from the shake took care of those four 1 oz jars nicely. I'm currently finishing the final flush from the 1/2 pt cakes that came from those spore prints. The way it's going so far, it seems simple, but I know that a lot of it is just dumb luck. So to me, 12 hours in the kitchen is nothing. It gives me more time to make sure it's taken care of. 45-60 min means I'm not sure if I'll have enough time to take care of it.
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JMcDoogle
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Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148412 - 11/17/13 04:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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^
Yup,If it works, It Works!
Get some prints from those, and start with agar work.
If you need information on Agar you can PM me and I'll tell ya how I got started, and where to look.
Also Search Function, top right works well to.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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OgreLokon
Pretty Fun Guy


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Posts: 512
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148414 - 11/17/13 04:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JMcDoogle said: ^
Yup,If it works, It Works!
Get some prints from those, and start with agar work.
If you need information on Agar you can PM me and I'll tell ya how I got started, and where to look.
Also Search Function, top right works well to.
I spend most of my free moments on the search tab. The only thing I'm currently lacking is a PC. I even have my agar, and I'll definately keep that offer in mind once I have one.
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148419 - 11/17/13 04:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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chef and no pc?
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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OgreLokon
Pretty Fun Guy


Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 512
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148422 - 11/17/13 04:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm just trying to make due with what I have. I understand that there is a right way and a wrong way, but I also know that other things work sometimes. I'm just trying to simplify my pasteurization once I get to it.
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OgreLokon
Pretty Fun Guy


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148423 - 11/17/13 04:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JMcDoogle said:

chef and no pc?
Not one bigger than 4 qt
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148432 - 11/17/13 04:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You're right, there is a right way, and a wrong way, and something quite in the middle.
Like this method for pasteurization, I've not seen anything quite like it, but if it works, than it works.
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OgreLokon
Pretty Fun Guy


Registered: 06/30/13
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148472 - 11/17/13 04:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thank you. I'll be sure to take notes with times and temps, and let Shroomery know how it went. I realize that it's not the most efficient way to do things for a lot of people, but some of us just need it relaxed.
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: OgreLokon]
#19148508 - 11/17/13 05:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just realized I left the thermometer inside of the Kitty Litter,
I took it off the stove about 45 mins ago - Was still 140'f inside,
Im sure this will work just fine.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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urthtown
meat popsicle


Registered: 10/26/13
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148559 - 11/17/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JMcDoogle said: NAH.
What do you think about MY pasteurization method?
Seems simple enough right?
Put Sub into Big Ass Kitty Litter Box, Put into PC with Water. Monitor Internal Temperatures. Reach 140'F Allow 1-1 1/2 Hours of Time to Pass Take Out Of Heat.

If you did find that the centre of the sub was a few degrees cooler than the outside edge, couldn't you just mix once it has been brought up close to temperature since it's in a big kitty litter pail anyway? Then you'd balance your temperature throughout the sub and you could just maintain pasteurization temps with the PC after mixing.
Seems like the variables for heat penetration into the sub are going to be the density of the sub, the amount of water in it (should be field cap right?), the material of the container the sub is in and the volume and outside dimensions of that container. A quick mix after bringing it up to temp would get you to the right temp to hold it for 2 hours no?
-------------------- Cluster Headache sufferer? Cluster Busting Veil Tear GIF Flower Pot Grow GIF Mini Mono Tub GIFS "All mushrooms are edible, but some only once." -- Croatian Proverb
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: urthtown]
#19148571 - 11/17/13 06:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
urthtown said: If you did find that the centre of the sub was a few degrees cooler than the outside edge, couldn't you just mix once it has been brought up close to temperature since it's in a big kitty litter pail anyway? Then you'd balance your temperature throughout the sub and you could just maintain pasteurization temps with the PC after mixing.
Balancing the temperature is not needed....as the substrate cools the "beneficial micro-organisms" spread throughout the substrate rapidly.
The core is always going to be a tad cooler than the outside....you are heating it from the outside in....
Quote:
urthtown said: Seems like the variables for heat penetration into the sub are going to be the density of the sub, the amount of water in it (should be field cap right?), the material of the container the sub is in and the volume and outside dimensions of that container. A quick mix after bringing it up to temp would get you to the right temp to hold it for 2 hours no?
It should, but once the core temp is reached you can pretty much just shut off the heat anyways.....you do have to monitor it, but it should hold it's own...at least the way I do mine does.....I use gallon ziplocks in my PC to pasturize.....bring the core up to about 145F and kill the fire....it rises about 10-15 more degrees, holds there, and then starts to drop.
And hour into it and we are still at about 145F....seems to work just fine....fruiting my first 10 properly pasteurized tubs now....no visible contams as of yet, but we are still pre first flush....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148605 - 11/17/13 06:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quick off topic question, I can do that, its mine, mwahaha.
I went to break up my grains with an old lawnmower tire, so I could soak in cold water for a few mins prior to mixing with my coir...
I mean, it was impossible, it just turned them into cakes inside the glass jar...
The grains were not at all " stuck together " pre-pc, post pc, and pre-shake.
Not it seems I couldent break em apart with dynomite -
Anyone had this problem, guess ill use a fork...
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148611 - 11/17/13 06:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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How long has the jar been fully colonized?
How does it smell?
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148616 - 11/17/13 06:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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All smell great, fully colonized for a day or so,
There was some aerial myc, it wanted out. I smelled each before I filled with moderately cold tap water. Best soak possible perhaps.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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ScriabinAnime


Registered: 11/15/13
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19148689 - 11/17/13 07:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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wait. Are you saying that if I take my kitty poo kitty litter, jar it, sterilize, and inoculate, that not only mushrooms will grow in it but psilocybe cubensis or another common halluc will?
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Smh
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
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Quote:
ScriabinAnime said: wait. Are you saying that if I take my kitty poo kitty litter, jar it, sterilize, and inoculate, that not only mushrooms will grow in it but psilocybe cubensis or another common halluc will?
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
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Quote:
JMcDoogle said: Hello, I am JMcDoogle.
I do not advocate anyone in doing this. Its truly an experiment.
I have taken 1. 35 PND Tidy Cats Plastic PP5 Container and Submerged into my 23 qt Pressure Cooker, Fits Like a Glove. It is on top of a rack.
The contents inside are 1 Brick Coir 2.5 Quarts Verm 4.5 Quarts Water and tablespoon of granular gypsum.
This is currently underway, as in while I am posting this, the box is heating up to temperature slowly. I just thought you folks would like to enjoy a decent laugh. I will taking temperature readings on the top and middle of the sub, I'll inform you of the results later.
So, What do you guys think? Is this a viable method at achieving a properly pasteurized bulk substrate? I can easily monitor internal temperatures by looking into the container via the lid. I can easily fit 2 Bricks of Coir worth of material into this ( 2 66 Qt Monos Worth ) and probably more if I were to compact it. The plastic heats up, but does not become its own heater, its a thick plastic.
Quote:
Notahacker420 said: If it works it works....
If you can keep the internal temp between 140F and 170F for 60-90 minutes you are good.
I use the same kitty litter.....lol.

15-20 Mins Into Simmer

Quote:
ScriabinAnime said: wait. Are you saying that if I take my kitty poo kitty litter, jar it, sterilize, and inoculate, that not only mushrooms will grow in it but psilocybe cubensis or another common halluc will?
Quote:
JMcDoogle said: I have taken 1. 35 PND Tidy Cats Plastic PP5 Container and Submerged into my 23 qt Pressure Cooker, Fits Like a Glove. It is on top of a rack.
The contents inside are 1 Brick Coir 2.5 Quarts Verm 4.5 Quarts Water and tablespoon of granular gypsum.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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ScriabinAnime


Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 355
Loc: USA
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19148768 - 11/17/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wouldn't that mean I'm stupid if I wasn't serious
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
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No....
Ambitious, perhaps.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19158476 - 11/19/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So far so good! No Signs of Contams And the Moisture content is great!
I'll update in a few days when I see full colonization!
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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Stool_Sample
Fruity



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 223
Loc: North East, US
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Quote:
ScriabinAnime said: Wouldn't that mean I'm stupid if I wasn't serious
Yes, I agree with you Anime. That photo should be rephrased as Can't tell if he's Joking / or really stupid.
this one made me laugh just a min ago.
-------------------- "wise words here"
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Sockadin



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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: PussyFart]
#19171445 - 11/21/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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ME ME ME... I think your an idiot! But your our idiot and we love you
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ScriabinAnime


Registered: 11/15/13
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: Sockadin]
#19198408 - 11/27/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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ScriabinAnime


Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 355
Loc: USA
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I was thinking that once I'd have a cat, I would PC the poo it and inoculate with like 5 different spores and see if any kick off; hopefully even one does
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,060
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I guess I'm going to have to start buying the cat litter that comes in the big tubs. I always get the 14 lb card board boxes because they're the biggest ones I can get at the local grocer.
JM Whenever I scroll past your sig it is impossible to not be mesmerized by your poodle workout video for at least a few play-throughs.
Liquid I like your idea of a completely submerged substrate reaching homogenous temperature with accurately temped water. It seems superior than risking the possibility that the outside edges of your substrate may get sterilized in boiling water. At least with your method you'll know for a fact that the internal temp never rose above 170
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Quote:
elasticaltiger said: Liquid I like your idea of a completely submerged substrate reaching homogenous temperature with accurately temped water. It seems superior than risking the possibility that the outside edges of your substrate may get sterilized in boiling water. At least with your method you'll know for a fact that the internal temp never rose above 170
Except that the CORE substrate temp is the only temp that matters.
Partial sterilization is not sterilizing part of the substrate. It is when the core of the substrate is held above 170F for too long.
You are wasting lots of time keeping the water from boiling. Just let it boil. The outer edges temp does not matter. Make sure the core temp does not exceed 170F and you are golden.
Yes, I promise. I pasteurize every single substrate with this method (in a bag) and the water boils every time. Hpoo, coir, whatever, it works great. In fact, I have some subs going right now, and the water is boiling like crazy 
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:
elasticaltiger said: Liquid I like your idea of a completely submerged substrate reaching homogenous temperature with accurately temped water. It seems superior than risking the possibility that the outside edges of your substrate may get sterilized in boiling water. At least with your method you'll know for a fact that the internal temp never rose above 170
Except that the CORE substrate temp is the only temp that matters.
Partial sterilization is not sterilizing part of the substrate. It is when the core of the substrate is held above 170F for too long.
You are wasting lots of time keeping the water from boiling. Just let it boil. The outer edges temp does not matter. Make sure the core temp does not exceed 170F and you are golden.
Yes, I promise. I pasteurize every single substrate with this method (in a bag) and the water boils every time. Hpoo, coir, whatever, it works great. In fact, I have some subs going right now, and the water is boiling like crazy 
It works because the CORE of the substrate still contains living specimens of the beneficial microbes, and mixing the substrate will spread them all-over the substrate, where they'll spread to occupy the partially-sterilized substrate. Yes, it works. Yes, that's the main thing that matters. But it's not the only thing.
Truthfully you are "partially sterilizing" the outer periphery of the substrate mass, but you haven't "partially sterilized (all of) the substrate" unless the core has also gone above 170°F for too long. That's why you say what you do, and that's why it seems to align with the facts, but what you're saying doesn't directly align with the facts.
Keeping ALL of the substrate in the 140-165°F range makes ALL of the substrate just like the "core" would be in your example.
If it's important and ideal to make sure the core doesn't reach/exceed 170°F, then of course the same thing would apply to all substrate mass.
When I used bulk substrates I regularly lost them too-soon despite doing your idea of proper pasteurization. After I began controlling the water bath temps (based on seeing seemingly uncanny success of grows with substrates pasteurized by controlled composting warmth) my failure rate subsided somewhat.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: Violet]
#19200899 - 11/28/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you are saying that the outer edges must be kept under 170F, you are wrong 
Notice how in RR's video his water is boiling away. It works just fine. This has been discussed at length on here.
The beneficial microbes flourishing in the center @ 140-160F will grow and spread while the substrate cools.
It will spread again when you spawn to the substrate.
This is proper pasteurization.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: Violet]
#19200925 - 11/28/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: If you are saying that the outer edges need to be kept under 170F, you are wrong.
Did you read?
Quote:
Violet said: Yes, it works.
What I'm saying is that keeping temps under 170 not only certainly doesn't hurt but that it sure could help more than "boil away" advice would.
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: The beneficial microbes flourishing in the center @ 140-160F will grow and spread while the substrate cools. It will spread again when you spawn to the substrate.
Did you read?
Quote:
Violet said: It works because the CORE of the substrate still contains living specimens of the beneficial microbes, and mixing the substrate will spread them all-over the substrate, where they'll spread to occupy the partially-sterilized substrate.
Keeping controlled temperatures reduced my contam rates, and less statistically noticeably but more importantly it oft delayed contams when they occurred. Plus, using the water's heat qualities instead of just as a heat-conducting material took some of the energy weight off of the stove. "Boil away" is not the best advice.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: Violet]
#19200946 - 11/28/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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"Boil away" works perfectly fine. Using his videos as another example, RR just turns his stove on high to boil his water for pasteurizing.
The key is knowing when to turn the heat off (for example, I turn my heat off when the core substrate temp is at 88F) and I detail this in my proper pasteurization write up
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Yuri.Pono
MAD SCIENTIST


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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19242154 - 12/07/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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that's a nice little trick. i'd mod it.
drill a hole through the top of lid and use one these:

 borrowed from Frank
to keep temps in line. run the probe in the center of it.
-------------------- Links To Success finger print: A9E348E5 2A22AFB6 F3676613 A34B1454 7C36ABC8 want to chat? got xxmp/pidgin/otr PM me for info
Edited by Yuri.Pono (12/07/13 06:47 PM)
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indocult
Dr


Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1,395
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: Yuri.Pono]
#19321472 - 12/24/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Keeping your pasteurizing sub in ideal temp range 140-160 for way too long will kill all the good microbes and partially sterilize
I like the kitty litter idea, I Don't have a cat so I will use a 5 gal bucket. If it works I will love it, I am tired of bags getting weak and popping, flooding my substrate
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BigGreenMat
Stranger

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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: Violet]
#19321862 - 12/24/13 03:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Violet, what would be your suggestion for more even heating for pasteurization? Smaller batches for more even spreading of temperature (mass)? Increased surface area techniques (length)? Some sort of active agitation to more evenly heat (essentially length)? It seems that just being patient wouldn't really work unless you somehow were able to increase the heat only a few degrees at a time for the whole batch over a long time period (temperature and time). Depending on batch size that could be several hours to get an even heating to 63 C throughout the entire batch.
I am scheming to use whirlpaks (we use them for plate incubation made very flat (high surface area) which can be submerged completely and should allow much more even heating. This is obviously more work too compared to just some giant bag in a pot.
I am really interested in hearing a different approach for more even pasteurization given the variables in play.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: BigGreenMat]
#19321891 - 12/24/13 03:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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do you mean even heating like trying to get the whole sub at temps of 140-160 to limit the over ride?
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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BigGreenMat
Stranger

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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: cronicr]
#19321905 - 12/24/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Even heating as in the outer material and inner material don't completely lose touch temperature wise. Her point was that the boil away attitude was leading to temps higher than 170 on the outer material during pasteurization while the inner temp was in range leading to partial sterilization. I was asking what exactly she would do to combat this. There are only certain ways, which I asked about in post. I was wondering what her strategy was to avoid this problem.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: BigGreenMat]
#19321925 - 12/24/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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gotcha, just wondering because as far as i know we only go by the middle to limit the amount of microbes in the sub in general
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Kitty Litter Pasturisation Tek [Re: cronicr]
#19321993 - 12/24/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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My thing is that I don't yet believe that higher temperatures would travel any (or much) faster thru the container and substrate. I still ended up hot bathing my sub bags for about 150 minutes. So if the heat will rise in the core in the same time anyway, then not only there is no need to use an excessively high temperature, but there are several known reasons not to.
Think about it. It's so important to not exceed 170°F core temperature (relative to temp/time) because it would kill the last of the beneficial microbes. Such care to preserve the remaining core microbes yet such disregard for the majority of them... Obviously if staying in the range of 140-165°F is important for the core we can be sure the reason why applies to All the sub the same way.
By the time the pasteurization temps have reached the core, the periphery has been up to temp more than long enough to be treated (moreso the thicker the substrate and container), so if your water temps are exceedingly high then the periphery of the sub is well beyond 170°F for far beyond the required treatment time. So when cranked up to boil the water and the substrate both have more heat energy in them than they need and for more time than is needed. As long as the line isn't crossed then the remaining beneficial microbes are able to do the job called for in pasteurization, but they are assuredly less in number and more in damage than is possible. It works anyway because the contaminant organisms are definitely killed, the substrate itself has a low nutrition by nature, and we usually give our intended organisms an incredible head start on lots and lots of colonized grain in somewhat clean conditions.
I'm just acknowledging the fact that controlling temperature greatly reduces the temp-over-time the entirety of the sub's microorganisms have to bear. I'm not necessarily saying that it will make an apparent difference for anyone. If anything I'm saying that the difference it make may cause one to not notice as much at all - in the lines of contams perhaps.
But it's for sure that wherever higher than pasteurization temps are there is more energy expended than necessary, especially since water's high specific heat costs more energy per degree. Even on this alone it should be preferred to keep water bath temps consistent. There's no reason not to, but reasons to.
One doesn't have to be a retentive stickler for a steady temperature. It can bounce and wave some but keeping it to the pasteurization range definitely works as treatment and assuredly kills less of the creatures that the point of pasteurization (instead of sterilization) is to retain.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (12/24/13 09:04 PM)
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