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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: LiquidGlass] * 1
    #19125863 - 11/12/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ojom said:
The law does not say he is innocent. The law says he is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. There is a difference. LiquidGlass is already convinced he's guilty thus skipping this presumption of innocence. To say he is innocent at this point is a guess.






Fair enough point, but that somewhat seems like semantics to me. I was not trying to say that he is magically innocent, until a jury says otherwise. I was saying that I'm going to "presume" him innocent, until his day in court. :shrug:





Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Well apparently you need to read it over again, or you did not read the whole thing.






I did. And I don't see why you're saying this.



Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
He did not actually mention silk road on an account that was linked to his email.






Actually, he did.... didn't he?


Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
What he did was use the name altoid to post on various forums about silk road to get the name out there and tell people it was online.

Then he used the name altoid on a tech website. On that website he did not mention the silk road at all, and this was the website he had his email linked to. And then he changed his email link shortly after posting, but it was too late.







Wait... I'm confused. Isn't that exactly what you just said he didn't do?  :confused:  "He did not actually mention silk road on an account that was linked to his email?"


I thought he used both the same screen name, and the same email for both accounts. Perhaps I'm remembering that wrong, and it was only the same screen name. If so, that makes the link back to him even more tenuous.  "Altoid?"  Isn't that a popular mint?  Okay, it would still be a hell of a coincidence. But like I said, if he only used the Ulbricht g-mail for the tech site, the link is even more tenuous than I believed.


Either way, I don't really see how that relates to my point, and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law....


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #19126613 - 11/12/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Quote:

I want to use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of coercion and agression amongst mankind. Just as slavery has been abolished most everywhere, I believe violence, coercion and all forms of force by one person over another can come to an end. The most widespread and systemic use of force is amongst institutions and governments, so this is my current point of effort.
The best way to change a government is to change the minds of the governed, however. To that end, I am creating an economic simulation to give people a first-hand experience of what it would be like to live in a world without the systemic use of force.




Kinda makes it hard to believe that he would order hitmen to kill people.





Lol ok, so anyone who says something like, "I believe violence, coercion and all forms of force by one person over another can come to an end" is incapable of ordering a hit on someone to protect their billion dollar business. People say stuff like that all of the time and then go commit atrocities. ANd when he wrote that he probably never even thought he would be put into that postion . . .


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Invisible404
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19126865 - 11/12/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Quote:

I want to use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of coercion and agression amongst mankind. Just as slavery has been abolished most everywhere, I believe violence, coercion and all forms of force by one person over another can come to an end. The most widespread and systemic use of force is amongst institutions and governments, so this is my current point of effort.
The best way to change a government is to change the minds of the governed, however. To that end, I am creating an economic simulation to give people a first-hand experience of what it would be like to live in a world without the systemic use of force.




Kinda makes it hard to believe that he would order hitmen to kill people.





Lol ok, so anyone who says something like, "I believe violence, coercion and all forms of force by one person over another can come to an end" is incapable of ordering a hit on someone to protect their billion dollar business. People say stuff like that all of the time and then go commit atrocities. ANd when he wrote that he probably never even thought he would be put into that postion . . .






still has to be proven. i also still don't think he was that stupid, and i still don't trust the government's word on the matter, or much at all.

:shrug:


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: 404]
    #19127037 - 11/12/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Being around drugs for so long I've seen people get nailed with their dick to the wall on a lot more vague circumstantial evidence than the gov't has on Ross, unfortunately. They were able to track the location the SR admin was logged on, a cafe across the street from where he was residing. The evidence is pretty damning, the whole 'altoid' thing is just how they started suspecting him, not how they actually figured out it was him. They traced the admin log-on right to the library where he was chatting with informants and co-conspirators.  Hence how they found him


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: D.M.T]
    #19127482 - 11/12/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

They traced the admin log-on right to the library where he was chatting with informants and co-conspirators.  Hence how they found him





I think it also had to do with the fact that a vendor from SR that had supposedly been busted sent him some fake ID's right to his residence


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: D.M.T]
    #19128547 - 11/12/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

They've got ross on solicitation of murder from a FBI UC.  If that's true he will go away on that charge alone 100%.


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Invisible404
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #19130233 - 11/13/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

what is a 'UC'?


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: 404]
    #19130238 - 11/13/13 07:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

under-cover


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: B_BOY]
    #19132952 - 11/13/13 07:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

An undercover would be a CI. Can be interchangeable.

CI = Confidential informant

UC = Unindicted co-conspirator

Or at least that's what it means in most federal indictments I've read. The UC might face separate indictments federally or state or might be granted immunity in return for snitching so they aren't named in the docs.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19133037 - 11/13/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
You obviously have not read the criminal complaint.



You obviously haven't read many criminal complaints.  They always say a lot of shit.  Not all of it will be proven true.  Maybe none of it will.  In the end, a complaint isn't evidence, and it has very little bearing on the actual case should it go to trial.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: Enlil]
    #19133063 - 11/13/13 08:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
You obviously have not read the criminal complaint.



You obviously haven't read many criminal complaints.  They always say a lot of shit.  Not all of it will be proven true.  Maybe none of it will.  In the end, a complaint isn't evidence, and it has very little bearing on the actual case should it go to trial.





Well in this case he it is pretty obvious he is fucked, but only time will tell


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19133075 - 11/13/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

He very well might be.  On the other hand, the prosecutor has an uphill battle trying to get a jury to grasp much of the technical aspects of this case should it go to trial.  It's certainly not going to be an easy case to try.

Of course, it'll likely plead out.


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: Enlil]
    #19133209 - 11/13/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Unfortunately I think it will play out the opposite with the defense attorney having an uphill battle explaining the technical aspects of SR. Drugs and murder along with the evidence that they do have, as well as the guy he tried getting whacked is going to testify against him, can only assume this is going to be one of those guilty until proven innocent without a doubt scenarios. After all it's drugs AND murder. to the average moron this is 'proof drugs lead to violence and must be stopped.'


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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: D.M.T]
    #19133244 - 11/13/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

He's not charged with murder.  He's charged with conspiracy to traffic narcotics, conspiracy to launder money, and conspiracy to commit computer fraud.  If it goes to trial, the prosecution is going to have to delve pretty deep into the technology to prove the case.


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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19133364 - 11/13/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

We might witness the first viable use of the chewbaca defense.

In which the jury members are so confused by the case they have no choice but to acquit :lol:


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: NWlight] * 1
    #19145492 - 11/16/13 02:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I have to post it. :laugh2:


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: Enlil]
    #19145901 - 11/16/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
He's not charged with murder.  He's charged with conspiracy to traffic narcotics, conspiracy to launder money, and conspiracy to commit computer fraud.  If it goes to trial, the prosecution is going to have to delve pretty deep into the technology to prove the case.




There are either murder or murder conspiracy charges. They might be separate to these particular charges I'm not sure, but you know they wouldn't let that go without charging him. He could have a reasonable defense saying its entrapment in that case but im not sure. it would depend on what exactly took place in the conversations.

now back to the 'murder or murder conspiracy' part. The reason I say murder and not murder conspiracy is that he did conspire to have a murder committed (allegedly) but at the same time he believed the murders were actually committed which in the eyes of the law might be different than conspiring whether or not it actually happened.

for instance if i sell you an NBOMe or a blank blotter as LSD, it doesn't matter you're going to be charged with selling LSD and may even receive the same punishment depending on circumstance. there is the confusion, imo. though it probably is just conspiracy.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: Enlil]
    #19145937 - 11/16/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
He's not charged with murder.  He's charged with conspiracy to traffic narcotics, conspiracy to launder money, and conspiracy to commit computer fraud.  If it goes to trial, the prosecution is going to have to delve pretty deep into the technology to prove the case.





Apparently you have not done proper research. He is also being chagred with attempted witness murder, and use of interstate commerce facilities in comission of murder-for-hire


I say again, he is FUCKED.

Although I would think it was awesome if he somehow got off . . . but he wont


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OfflineSillyString525
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19147967 - 11/17/13 12:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If he was attempting to murder people then I completely support him getting thrown in jail permanently.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ulbricht pleads not guilty to Silk Road Charges [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19148556 - 11/17/13 06:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:

Apparently you have not done proper research. He is also being chagred with attempted witness murder, and use of interstate commerce facilities in comission of murder-for-hire




That's certainly not part of the federal case.  He might be charged separately in a state court for attempted murder, but I know nothing about that.


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