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westthebest

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 312
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Help! Rye spawn bags...
#19145405 - 11/16/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have 3 rye spawn bags, all of which have been doing quite well... Until today. Woke up to find blue spots on the mycelium in the both of the 2 bags that are almost entirely colonized. Is this a contam/are these bags done for? What could have caused this to happen so suddenly to multiple bags? It is important to note that the mycelium is bluing, it is not blue growth on an uncolonized section of rye, and there is also not any sort of funky smell coming from the filter patches. Any help is appreciated, pretty bummed about this.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: westthebest]
#19145467 - 11/16/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If it was mine, I'd say the bag IS done, and spawn to some coir+verm. That looks finished from this angle, that might well just be bruising, and thirdly coir+verm aint that expensive.
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westthebest

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 312
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: spacechildo]
#19145528 - 11/16/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said: If it was mine, I'd say the bag IS done, and spawn to some coir+verm. That looks finished from this angle, that might well just be bruising, and thirdly coir+verm aint that expensive.
But how would bruising have just appeared like that in multiple spots on two bags overnight? Coir and verm is (was...?) the plan, was waiting on a small section on the bottom of the bag that has yet to colonize, does that not matter?
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: westthebest]
#19145559 - 11/16/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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maybe you sneezed really hard one night that made them jump on the shelf..  they bruise easily. wait until the last patch is done. dont spawn before 100%. It would maybe work, but no reason to advocate bad procedure.
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westthebest

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 312
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: spacechildo]
#19145697 - 11/16/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If it theoretically was a contam instead of bruising... Would spawning them contaminate the rest of the house, like opening a contamed brf jar?
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: westthebest]
#19145700 - 11/16/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
westthebest said:
Quote:
spacechildo said: If it was mine, I'd say the bag IS done, and spawn to some coir+verm. That looks finished from this angle, that might well just be bruising, and thirdly coir+verm aint that expensive.
But how would bruising have just appeared like that in multiple spots on two bags overnight? Coir and verm is (was...?) the plan, was waiting on a small section on the bottom of the bag that has yet to colonize, does that not matter?
It looks like bruising to me, too.
Bruising can happen from rough handling or from the substrate drying out. I'm guessing you bought these bags already prepared, right? You'll never know how old they are or how long the soak was or how long it sat drying on the counter before it was cooked, if so.
Definitely wait until it's ready before spawning. I know, the last bit is always agonizing.Quote:
westthebest said: If it theoretically was a contam instead of bruising... Would spawning them contaminate the rest of the house, like opening a contamed brf jar?
Some people say so, but I don't think that's the case any more than a moldy piece of bread or that lemon you forgot about in the bottom of the fruit bowl.
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westthebest

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 312
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: Psilicon]
#19145798 - 11/16/13 03:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Anyone else want to chime in on the danger of opening a contamed bag in your grow house?
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MUSH HEAD420
Kush Commander



Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 921
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: westthebest]
#19145803 - 11/16/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That thing needs spawned to some sub asap.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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I once bought pre sterilized rye bags online and they colonized fine. They laid on their side, turned white in 2 weeks, so I decided to spawn them, and dunk the grains, via Franks tek. So as I cut the bag open, I notice a small spot, little bigger than a quarter hiding underneath the filter patch that was un colonized on one bag. "no matter" I thought, they were sitting on the side, patch side up, and perhaps the grains dried out being near the GE patch (its like when u load grain jars too much and only use 1 layer Tyvek IME top grains dry out, no colonization). So I spawned them to pasteurized coir/verm. 24 hours later, ROTTEN APPLES (Bacteria was what was causing that uncolonized part, not dry grains). I dunno man, if its not entirely colonized wait, cause that last part, even the size of a quarter could be bacteria that will ruin it for u because like Van Der said, you never know how long these sites prep their bags or how long they sit on shelves after being prepped. If ur whole bag looks like that pic though, spawn it and see, or if u wanna be risky, cut off the uncolonized part like 1/2" into colonized before spawning, but that can be risky.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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westthebest

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 312
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Quote:
MUSH HEAD420 said: That thing needs spawned to some sub asap.
Yet again, neither bag is totally colonized. Blindingleaf, thank you very much. I figured that the uncolonized patches are simply, well, uncolonized, but I will definitely keep that in mind. Already lost one bag to bacterial contam, but that one's filter patch smelled so rotten you couldn't miss it. These smell just fine
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MUSH HEAD420
Kush Commander



Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 921
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: westthebest]
#19145940 - 11/16/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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How uncolonized are you talking? 90% is fine if it took a while to get that far.
95-105% colonization is desirable but not necessary.
I spawn at 30 days no matter how colonized. Unless it is mostly uncolonized, that would point to a contamination. \
If it just doesn't want to colonize a couple patches of grain than spawn it, the grain it doesn't want to touch just might be dry.
Edited by MUSH HEAD420 (11/16/13 04:42 PM)
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Quote:
MUSH HEAD420 said: How uncolonized are you talking? 90% is fine if it took a while to get that far.
95-105% colonization is desirable but not necessary.
I spawn at 30 days no matter how colonized.
Sounds like a recipe for a stinky abortion of a monotub to me.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: Psilicon]
#19146049 - 11/16/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I always wait for 105% colonization....
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MUSH HEAD420
Kush Commander



Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 921
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: spacechildo]
#19146086 - 11/16/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If at 20-30 days the jar is 90% it just means it is time to spawn it.
You could trace the growth with a marker and leave it for a couple days to see if you can get the last bit to colonize.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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I won't lie, I have spawned jars at 90% many times, but ONLY when its the top grains that have no growth, and only, like mush said, if its been 20-30 days. This happened more when I used tyvek on top as filter, and I noticed it lets too much evaporation out, drying the grains on top, I use either a double layer of tyvec now or SFD's if they are not already in use (I only have 12). still risky, but I just kinda push the uncolonized grains away, they do not go into the substrate, I guess they could, but ever since that rye bag bacteria, no chances.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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westthebest

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 312
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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marker idea is a good one, going to do that right now. it's been longer than 30 days but the bags were extremely slow to start- possibly because I inoculated farrrr too deep into the bag- but to be honest it doesn't sound like I have much to lose waiting a few more days, the most colonized bag should be done in a couple if growth is still on track. also would like to wait a day or two to see if this bluing spreads/turns into something nasty, or if it is just bruising.
one thought- I ran an old humidifier for the first time in a while last night in hopes of possibly helping my dried out (? that's another thread in itself, literally) cakes, seeing as the humidifier hadn't been touched in a while maybe mold could have grown in there- I mean, it would have been humid enough- and was distributed throughout the room when I ran it? seems highly unlikely and I'm sure there are a million holes in that logic, but that's all I can think of as far as something I did differently, hoping/thinking its just bruising like you guys say.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: westthebest]
#19146383 - 11/16/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I hope its just bruising too, but I imagine you would notice contam on ur cakes first if the humidifier had mold in it because they are less protected than ur bag. Im still pretty new to this, but Id bet its bruising, I hope I don't catch flack for that. are you gonna try/have you tried jars yet?
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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westthebest

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 312
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Quote:
blindingleaf said: I hope its just bruising too, but I imagine you would notice contam on ur cakes first if the humidifier had mold in it because they are less protected than ur bag. Im still pretty new to this, but Id bet its bruising, I hope I don't catch flack for that. are you gonna try/have you tried jars yet?
I was under the impression that colonized/fruiting cakes were very contam resistant? however, I do have 4 half pint brf jars that are still colonizing, haven't seen anything blue in those... would it be harder or easier for contams to get into the jar and past the dry verm layer compared to getting through the filter patch and into the bag? I'll keep an eye on them. also did an inoculation of 4 jars for the hell of it today- in the same room, as a bit of an experiment- so I imagine if the mold had been spread throughout the room those would all contam pretty quickly as well? unless SAB's work far better than I thought.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Help! Rye spawn bags... [Re: westthebest]
#19146488 - 11/16/13 06:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Good question, my guess would be its easier to get thru dry verm...? but I dunno what size filter is on the bag. I guess I was alluding to the fact that if there was mold in the humidifier, it would have landed on the cakes as FAE takes places and would be visible at the same time or before the bag of grain, but thats just a guess.
as for the SAB I guess it depends how big the arm holes are, how much movement, or if there is any mold in the humidifier in the first place. I bought a humidifier/fogger from a thrift store, and noticed after its empty and I go to refill it there is ALWAYS brown dust in the water tank, from the previous owner. it has not caused any problems yet, been using it for 3 weeks, and I have 10 jars colonizing, 4 bucket monos going, and an SGFC with a coir brick in the room that it is humidifying. so hopefully u r safe
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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westthebest

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 312
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Quote:
blindingleaf said: Good question, my guess would be its easier to get thru dry verm...? but I dunno what size filter is on the bag. I guess I was alluding to the fact that if there was mold in the humidifier, it would have landed on the cakes as FAE takes places and would be visible at the same time or before the bag of grain, but thats just a guess.
as for the SAB I guess it depends how big the arm holes are, how much movement, or if there is any mold in the humidifier in the first place. I bought a humidifier/fogger from a thrift store, and noticed after its empty and I go to refill it there is ALWAYS brown dust in the water tank, from the previous owner. it has not caused any problems yet, been using it for 3 weeks, and I have 10 jars colonizing, 4 bucket monos going, and an SGFC with a coir brick in the room that it is humidifying. so hopefully u r safe
alright. I will update when I have further information... in the meantime, anyone else out there have thoughts? thanks for your help blindingleaf.
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