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mustardtiger
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 41
Loc: mid west
Last seen: 6 years, 20 days
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monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios
#19145014 - 11/16/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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god day folks!
ok so Ive got me some monos here that just finished up with the first flush

so they look pretty good id say

the tubs were packed with fruits wall to wall

but here is the slight issue i have run into, when dried they only get about 2.5 oz first flush.
that does not make me happy as they each have 4 quarts of spawn and 4 quarts of coir per tub, so pretty much what I am wondering is if i have used too much spawn per tub? or i should use a larger sized mono?
the genetics that are being used typically yield 1oz/quart of spawn when not in monos
any help/advice would be great.
-------------------- Acid Fool!
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: mustardtiger]
#19145034 - 11/16/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Use a larger mono. I use 6 quarts spawn to 10 quarts of substrate in a 66qt tub. My flushes are 6-10 ounces on average.
1oz per quart of spawn is bullshit. I have no idea where that ratio came from but you would do well to get rid of those thoughts. You can get way more than 1oz per quart of spawn in a proper environment.
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Midnight Cyclone
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: mustardtiger]
#19145069 - 11/16/13 12:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustardtiger said: god day folks!
ok so Ive got me some monos here that just finished up with the first flush

So many aborts 
4 quarts spawn to 4 quarts substrate is a 1:1 ratio, which is on the high end but completely fine.
Anything between a 1:1 and 1:4 are all commonly used spawn ratios. Though I like to use a spawn ratio between 2 and 3, everyone has their preference.
Using a larger mono would help you accomplish more surface area to give those aborts a better chance at maturing, but will also decrease your substrate's depth.
You need to find a happy medium, and my suggestion (if you're going to use a bigger mono) would be to double your substrate quantity or half the amount of spawn used, effectively giving you a 1:2 ratio instead of the 1:1 you're using. Using more spawn is hardly "more effective" and only shaves off a day or two in the end.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: You can use anywhere from a 1:1 to a 1:4 spawn rate with coir or manure. With straw, a 1:10 rate works well. There's little to be gained from using extra spawn. It doesn't colonize much faster as is commonly thought. In fact there's only about 2 to 3 days difference in colonization time between a 1:4 and a 1:1 rate. This is because once the mycelium recovers on the grains and enters the bulk substrate, it picks up speed and rips right through it, providing you didn't make the coir or manure too wet.
Keep the substrate under 5 cm or so. Thick substrates underperform thinner ones. RR
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mustardtiger
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19145082 - 11/16/13 12:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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thanks for the response frank and midnight!
guess I'll just have man up to 66 quart tubs then and use a lower spawn ratio
I liked the 1:1 ration because of faster colonization times
previously before using monos I had been growing the same clone in trays in my fc and that is where i got the estimation of 1oz per quart of spawn
thanks again guys
-------------------- Acid Fool!
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: mustardtiger]
#19145130 - 11/16/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You're not the first to come up with that ratio 
I was pointing it out because I've heard it for years but I've personally seen zero evidence of that being the case when spawning to bulk.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,811
Loc: Canada
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: mustardtiger]
#19145151 - 11/16/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustardtiger said: I liked the 1:1 ration because of faster colonization times
I used to do the same thing. Then I started dunking my grains before spawning. Now I commonly see my spawn runs finish in under a week with ratios of 1:3.
Thanks Frank
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19145157 - 11/16/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good to see you're still around PW!
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Midnight Cyclone
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19145196 - 11/16/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
mustardtiger said: I liked the 1:1 ration because of faster colonization times
I used to do the same thing. Then I started dunking my grains before spawning. Now I commonly see my spawn runs finish in under a week with ratios of 1:3.
I just dunked my grains before spawning for the first time. Now on day 11, and all tubs (3.5"< depth ; 1:3 ratio) are coming to 100% colonization and pretty much ready for the GH.
Before I dunked grains, tubs filled 4"> with spawn+sub ratio 1:3 were taking like 3 weeks to fully colonize. It's only my first grow dunking grains before spawning and I haven't even seen fruits yet, so I'm still withholding from posting data, but I've got good vibes going for dunking grains prior to spawning.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Thanks Frank 
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Z O M G
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19145312 - 11/16/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Use a larger mono. I use 6 quarts spawn to 10 quarts of substrate in a 66qt tub. My flushes are 6-10 ounces on average.
1oz per quart of spawn is bullshit. I have no idea where that ratio came from but you would do well to get rid of those thoughts. You can get way more than 1oz per quart of spawn in a proper environment.
your getting these results with MS or isolates?
I've always held the belief of 1 quart jar = 1 oz as well.
what are your colonization times using your ratio?
--------------------
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: Z O M G]
#19145316 - 11/16/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Both MS and isolates. Of course, the isolates behave consistently but the MS can put out some mean flushes when it is done right.
I always start my MS on agar and take a transfer or two to ensure cleanliness. This results in a narrower field of genetics for the culture and boosts performance as well.
My colonization time for my bulk substrate is 4-7 days.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19145348 - 11/16/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here, had to dig for some old pics.
These are MS:



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spacechildo
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19145360 - 11/16/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why do we all say to harvest right after the veil break while almost none of us actually do? I myself think the shrooms look so beautiful when the hat spreads out, and I don't mind having to eat a couple extras.
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Z O M G
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19145475 - 11/16/13 02:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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nice! 66qt tube? and I'm assuming your soaking the grains prior to colonization for those Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Here, had to dig for some old pics.
These are MS:




nice! 66qt tube? and I'm assuming your soaking the grains prior to colonization for those
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shaneh79
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: Z O M G]
#19145722 - 11/16/13 03:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm on my second bulk grow using monotub with a rye grain:coir/verm/gypsum of 1:1 and my first montub grow using a 1:2 ratio between the two I'd say the higher ratio colonizes quicker so far.... bit but kbowing that now for myself I will go with a 1:2 ratio and save spawn or increase my number of tubs growing at the same time..
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Psilicon
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: spacechildo]
#19145754 - 11/16/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said: Why do we all say to harvest right after the veil break while almost none of us actually do? I myself think the shrooms look so beautiful when the hat spreads out, and I don't mind having to eat a couple extras.
Because spores look like shit and taste like hell, cause your mushrooms to appear older and worse than they are in actuality, reduce pinning in the substrate, and consume resources that could otherwise be dedicated to producing more mushrooms.
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spacechildo
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: Psilicon]
#19145770 - 11/16/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know why we promote harvest before sporulation and cap opening. but why don't we all do it? as in franks pics. and various other respected growers pics..
EDIT: and of course the potency/water weight thing. but I don't sell and I don't think very many others here do. So to me that's not an issue.
Edited by spacechildo (11/16/13 03:24 PM)
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Psilicon
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: spacechildo]
#19145794 - 11/16/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Those are really old pictures. I don't think Frank let's 'em get like that anymore, but I could be wrong.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,811
Loc: Canada
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: Psilicon]
#19145810 - 11/16/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I usually harvest just before or right after the veil tears. Not only for the benefit of reduced spore loads, but also because I find I get better prints if I don't wait for the caps to flatten and blow 2/3rds of the spores all over. When they look like this is usually when I like to harvest;

Veils just started to tear, cap is nowhere near plane. IME when you print at this time, the cap will flatten out as it prints, and you get a uber dark print. Granted you don't get the final bit of water weight at the end but I don't really care about wet weight anyway.
Quote:
van der griegen said: Those are really old pictures. I don't think Frank let's 'em get like that anymore, but I could be wrong.
That would be my guess as well.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: monotub issues/ grain to substrate ratios [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19148200 - 11/17/13 01:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, I still wait for most of the veils to tear.
But nowadays I try to keep spores to a minimal so I decapitate the early bloomers and keep those spores from dropping.
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