|
s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
|
Do you think
#19141885 - 11/15/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
ggggggggggg
Edited by s240779 (11/17/13 05:04 PM)
|
olson
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 386
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: s240779]
#19141939 - 11/15/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I think if you live an active life with a pretty packed schedule you can get away with using opiates once or twice a week but i think a lot of it comes down to genetics.
I cant say much for meditation as i haven't really tried that but i will say that avoiding the situations that cause cravings is far more effective than trying to will your way through them.
--------------------
Kinesin, a motor protein, shuttling a vesicle full of cargo such as glucose or even neurotransmitters across a cell. This little guy struts along the microtubule using ATP as fuel.
|
r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: s240779]
#19141957 - 11/15/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I don't think so. A "spiritual" person is still a person who can become addicted to things. I don't think that their biology differs. There are many accounts of spiritual leaders who were addicted to drugs and sex.
On the other hand, I feel that people can use opiates without abuse. It has nothing to do with spirituality or their existential understanding of the world. It has to do with a person's willpower and their ability to control themselves.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
|
s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: r72rock]
#19141968 - 11/15/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
ggggggggggggg
Edited by s240779 (11/17/13 05:04 PM)
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: s240779]
#19142175 - 11/15/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Da2ra said: Be able to always stay within their withdrawal threshold. In other words, using an amount where they would never go through any withdrawals -- or only getting withdrawals taht are so mild that a cup of coffee would take care of them. And I mean using them as recreationally as possible within these limitations.
So, when I say "spiritually strong" I mean advanced in meditation...disciplined, that kind of thing.
I think opiate withdrawal is more of a physiological thing which one can't 'mind over matter'. I'd suggest alternatives like Kratom, which seem to respectively have nil physiological withdrawal effects (though possibly some psychological withdrawal).
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 24 days, 21 hours
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19142280 - 11/15/13 07:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
fuck you bitch fuck you bitch
-------------------- ...or something
Edited by eve69 (11/17/13 05:48 PM)
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: eve69]
#19142307 - 11/15/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Cute. Isn't the definition of abuse the act of becoming addicted? Many mystics and musicians use them occasionally (a couple times a year) without any problems other than minor hangovers.
|
s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: Middleman]
#19142396 - 11/15/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rev. Morton said: Many mystics and musicians use them occasionally (a couple times a year) without any problems other than minor hangovers.
This statement is complete nonsense.
Opiates don't cause hangovers. You do not know multiple mystics/musicians who use opiates several times a year.
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: s240779]
#19142423 - 11/15/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Yes they do and yes I do. I said once or twice a year. I guess we roll in different circles.
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 24 days, 21 hours
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: s240779]
#19142438 - 11/15/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
fuck you bitch
-------------------- ...or something
Edited by eve69 (11/17/13 05:47 PM)
|
r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: s240779]
#19142440 - 11/15/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Da2ra said:
Quote:
r72rock said: I don't think so. A "spiritual" person is still a person who can become addicted to things. I don't think that their biology differs. There are many accounts of spiritual leaders who were addicted to drugs and sex.
I've read that meditation literally changes the brain. And I would imagine that there's a large psychic factor to withdrawal. I'm talking about how everyone has a different tolerance for pain. I'm sure this also applies to withdrawal: a form of pain. Meditation or martial arts or something can most likely significantly increase one's pain tolerance.
So what does it matter if the person's spiritual then? Wouldn't it just pend on their ability to handle pain? Even if it's through meditation and martial arts?
And maybe meditation changes the brain? But I don't think it means that they can just not have addictive personalities. If it was that easy, 10 step programs would be focused around meditation. I think it has more to do with the person than their spiritual practice.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
|
s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: r72rock]
#19142469 - 11/15/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
r72rock said: And maybe meditation changes the brain? But I don't think it means that they can just not have addictive personalities. If it was that easy, 10 step programs would be focused around meditation.
Now that is a ridiculous statement, and most people in this forum would agree with me.
Also, I think if you're advanced enough in meditation you can slash away at your inherent addiction potential, but alas the extent of power of meditation is a hotly debated topic.
Keep in mind Thich Quang Duc was advanced enough in meditation to burn himself to death while quietly meditating. That's kind of where I'm coming from with the idea of: the more spiritually/psychicly (that's psychic, as in brain) disciplined you are, the more resilient you are to entering withdrawal/handling withdrawal.
|
mutantmushroom
The Mutant



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 416
Loc: Daytona
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: s240779]
#19142540 - 11/15/13 08:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I use opiates probably for a week straight every 3 months or so. Its like my vacation. haha
-------------------- When you put the best effort you can into something, you’re bound to get something good out of it
|
s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: mutantmushroom]
#19142557 - 11/15/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Cool. And do you get a "hangover", which Rev. Morton says will happen? after first use? After the week? Has any withdrawal ever arisen?
|
r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: s240779]
#19142633 - 11/15/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Da2ra said: Now that is a ridiculous statement, and most people in this forum would agree with me.
How is it ridiculous? And what does it matter if people on the forum agree or not? My point still stands. If it was that easy to get rid of addiction, why wouldn't they use to it cure everyone? It may work for some, it may not for others. Because of that, I don't think it has much to do with meditation as much as the person. If it was that helpful, of course it'd be picked up by recovery programs.
Quote:
Da2ra said: Keep in mind Thich Quang Duc was advanced enough in meditation to burn himself to death while quietly meditating. That's kind of where I'm coming from with the idea of: the more spiritually/psychicly (that's psychic, as in brain) disciplined you are, the more resilient you are to entering withdrawal/handling withdrawal.
That's a case, not the universal. Maybe it was meditation, or maybe it was something else. And my statement still stands. I don't think meditation helps with withdraw and handling the withdraw. It may for some people, but I think it comes down to the person and their personality more than anything else.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
|
all this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: olson]
#19142814 - 11/15/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
olson said: but i think a lot of it comes down to genetics.
I agree.
I'm a strong believer in biological determinism -- meaning, that your biology pretty much determines your fate, spiritual and otherwise.
This kind of thinking isn't everyone's cup of tea. Some call it "fatalism." Some call it "elitism." You name it and I've been accused of it.
Fact is, you can use the most powerful mind-expanding drug known to humankind, every day for the rest of your life, but if it's not in your biological destiny to have "The Experience," you won't have it.
On the other hand, you can take, say, LSD once -- only once in your entire lifetime -- and have the type of experience described by Leary and Watts in the classical drug literature.
It's in the genes.
Our fates are largely determined by our genetic makeup.
|
thatmonk
Monk!

Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 160
Loc: Near Astoria, OR
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: s240779]
#19143588 - 11/16/13 12:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
What is the point of that when there are so many other substances available that do support a spiritual practice. I was on opiates for six years for pain and can report they can cause you a lot of problems. Why risk falling into addiction? If you're going to fall into addiction, there is no spiritual strength that is going to stop your biology from driving you.
-------------------- ...because life is fleeting.
|
shpngld
veteran lurker


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 88
Loc: London, UK
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: thatmonk]
#19148921 - 11/17/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Imo if u r spiritually strong,whatever it means, you won't dabblenwith highly addictive substances as opiates are. I don't consider myself spiritually strong but I try to reduce/stop usage of highly addictive substances. I have success with stims and tobacco, now its alcohol's turn but it will be really hard for me I feel:-) ... I like drinkin really, I like the taste of beer and the nice mood I get from it..
Never been a downers fan, only stims abuser...I feel beating addiction makes me stronger...
My 2p
-------------------- As above, so below. As within, so without. As we think, so we are. As we are, so we see. Enjoy yourself, its later than you think.- chinese proverb ----------------- Shroomery is closest to my anahata chakra, than everything/anything/anyone else thedeadwalkk said: Shroomery, you're the best; If you had a dick, I would deepthroat that shit and finger your butthole at the same time.
|
LysergicX7
Lunatic



Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 1,206
Loc: Montana, USA
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: shpngld]
#19148934 - 11/17/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
This question seems like an oxymoron. A spiritually strong person wouldn't need opiates.
-------------------- “Everybody is fundamentally, the ultimate reality. Not god in the political kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self – the deep down basic whatever there is. And you’re all that… only you’re pretending you’re not.” -Alan Watts I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be.” ― Albert Hofmann
|
all this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
|
Re: Do you think a person can be spiritually strong enough to abuse opiates without getting addicted? [Re: LysergicX7]
#19149125 - 11/17/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
LysergicX7 said: This question seems like an oxymoron. A spiritually strong person wouldn't need opiates.
Slippery slope there. Plenty of critics say that "spiritually strong" people don't need marijuana.
Let people be. Let people decide for themselves what they need and don't need.
|
|