|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
|
Jaw tension and lsd
#19139395 - 11/15/13 01:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Why?
|
cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: cez]
#19139400 - 11/15/13 01:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Never mind plenty of related threads...
Its a dopamine thing.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: cez]
#19139415 - 11/15/13 01:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Or laughing or smiling for 8 hours, or your muscles naturally tense up because you are so high and you do not realize you are doing it
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: cez]
#19139424 - 11/15/13 01:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Stimulant
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
tahp93 said: Stimulant
No. LSD is not a stimulant
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
|
|
It's not a stimulant but it has properties
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
tahp93 said: It's not a stimulant but it has properties
For some people. It affects different people differently. And that is not why you get muscle tension
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
|
|
Guess I've been misled. Read through countless threads saying that was the reason. Is it just the impurities?
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: Or laughing or smiling for 8 hours, or your muscles naturally tense up because you are so high and you do not realize you are doing it
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
LSD does have a jaw tension factor to it, and no I don't think it's because you are just stuck with a smile. I have had times where my jaw muscles are literally tired from it and I try to relax them for a minute, but something makes your want to keep them tense even after.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said: LSD does have a jaw tension factor to it, and no I don't think it's because you are just stuck with a smile. I have had times where my jaw muscles are literally tired from it and I try to relax them for a minute, but something makes your want to keep them tense even after.
I have gotten the same thing on mescaline/mushrooms
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
HostDisorder
Stranger


Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 529
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
|
|
I guess it's a similar scenario the the mysterious yet prevalent mushroom headache that a lot of people get, some say its dehydration, some say vasoconstriction, who knows.
I've never had this tension but I bet it's less uncomfortable than the shroom headache.
|
Absent Minded



Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 3,300
Loc: Way Down South
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
|
|
Yeah I get that too. Seems I'm always smiling with some cheese eating grin on 'cid. I always get a pack of cigarettes when I trip too because it keeps my hand and mouth occupied, it's fun as fuck, and get a buzz for the first few. plus they're much tastier on L than when sober where they taste like slow death. Aside from that, lemon jolly ranchers are your best friend when on L, trust me. so incredibly sour/tart/sweet/hard/delicious. it's just what you want when tripping.
--------------------
Beats More Beats sheekle: fuck peace love and unity sheekle: death despair and misery sheekle: is where it's at
|
Sheekle
FREE BURKE



Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 53,153
|
|
My jaw shakes a ton when I'm on acid sometimes for some reason. I think it's like just excess generalized (mental) stimulation. Sometimes I also find myself pushing my tongue up onto the roof of my mouth too
-------------------- "Ur cat died because he hated u" - Koods "I hope JSB kicks your ass one day." - Vandago "you are the biggest 'internet guy' I have ever come across"- Jokeshopbeard "The more I see you post the more I realize you're just this fuckin tie dye loser who trolls the Shroomery 24/7." - Herbologist "Sheekle you cannot vile the dice of bullshit you have posted on this forum over the years, I like databases" - thelastoneleft "or maybe i just come from a blood line of superior intelligence" - trees R.I.P Kelsy, ?/?/?? - 6/11/16
|
sytar
Radiant



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: Sheekle]
#19140325 - 11/15/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Ignore the guy who says otherwise, jaw tension is caused by drugs which have a stimulant effect (e.g, caffeine, adderall, meth, l-dopa, benzadrine, etc.)
Edit
Disturbance of the dopaminergic system in the central nervous system has also been suggested to be involved in the etiology of bruxism.[9] Evidence for this comes from observations of the modifying effect of medications which alter dopamine release on bruxing activity, such as levodopa, amphetamines or nicotine. Nicotine stimulates release of dopamine, which is postulated to explain why bruxism is twice as common in smokers compared to non-smokers.[5]
From the bruxism wiki.
-------------------- I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.
Edited by sytar (11/15/13 10:17 AM)
|
KingKnowledge
Around



Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 2,876
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: sytar]
#19140634 - 11/15/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
It's dopamine 100%
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: sytar]
#19140645 - 11/15/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
yes sytar, and MDMA, LSD, and other psychedelics effect dopamine as well as actual stimulants.
Absent, I get exactly what you mean. While obviously unhealthy as I well know, and as someone who doesn't smoke cigarettes often at all, I find they are much better when you are tripping. I try to keep a pack of joints instead though, keeps that oral fixation satisfied without all the fiberglass in my lungs lol.
|
Labs4858


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 484
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
|
|
i tend to bite down without even realizing it. i just put pressure on my jaw unknowingly and near the end of the trip it feels like my jaw is really tight. Recently i've been catching myself and doing it less so i have less problems with it now.
--------------------
|
GreySatyr
Pagan-Psyche


Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 3,376
Loc: North Carolina
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: Labs4858]
#19140816 - 11/15/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
It's from tensing your jaw...duh.
Who cares why? It just is. It's normal to do when stimulated and LSD does stimulate you very well.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
|
seres
of silk


Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 32
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: GreySatyr]
#19140859 - 11/15/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
While I was tripping I felt like it was somehow connected to how weird my stomach felt. I got the same kind of jaw tension on 25i as well. I'd be interested if there's been any research into it, but i doubt it, it's an oddly specific thing.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: seres]
#19141448 - 11/15/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
yes sytar, and MDMA, LSD, and other psychedelics effect dopamine as well as actual stimulants.
Citation please . . .
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
while not the best source, Wiki trolling isn't common enough I think to affect this page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruxism
"Disturbance of the dopaminergic system in the central nervous system has also been suggested to be involved in the etiology of bruxism.[9] Evidence for this comes from observations of the modifying effect of medications which alter dopamine release on bruxing activity, such as levodopa, amphetamines or nicotine. Nicotine stimulates release of dopamine, which is postulated to explain why bruxism is twice as common in smokers compared to non-smokers.[5]"
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said: while not the best source, Wiki trolling isn't common enough I think to affect this page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruxism
"Disturbance of the dopaminergic system in the central nervous system has also been suggested to be involved in the etiology of bruxism.[9] Evidence for this comes from observations of the modifying effect of medications which alter dopamine release on bruxing activity, such as levodopa, amphetamines or nicotine. Nicotine stimulates release of dopamine, which is postulated to explain why bruxism is twice as common in smokers compared to non-smokers.[5]"
That source does not prove THIS statement you made:
Quote:
yes sytar, and MDMA, LSD, and other psychedelics effect dopamine as well as actual stimulants.
Do you have a source proving that LSD affects dopamine the same as stimulants?
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9698051
"Moreover, the fact that LSD at 10(-8)-10(-6) M antagonized the inhibitory effect of dopamine (10(-7) M) and bromocriptine (10(-11) M) suggests that LSD acts as a partial agonist at D2 receptors on lactotrophs in vitro. Interestingly, LSD at 10(-13)-10(-10) M, the concentrations which are 10-1000-fold lower than those required to induce direct inhibition on pituitary prolactin secretion, potentiated the dopamine (10(-10)-2.5x10(-9) M)-mediated prolactin secretion by pituitary cells in vitro. These results suggest that LSD not only interacts with dopaminergic receptors but also has a unique capacity for modulating dopaminergic transmission. These findings may offer new insights into the hallucinogenic effect of LSD"
Why not do research yourself if you are so adamant that the chemical effects of LSD are in no way associated? No offense if you were just looking for extra information, but your response sounds like that of a troll attempting to refute something that, as someone else said up here, is discussed (and answered) on other threads. MDMA is known as a psychedelic and a stimulant, but stimulants aren't the only drugs known to release dopamine or serotonin. These chemicals are in fact in our bodies, and are known for giving euphoria. Does LSD give you more euphoria than a typical occasion? (given a good trip) Yes. That euphoria, by basic logic, comes from these chemicals being released in an amount not normally given by the brain. Therefore I "assumed" that that is the reason. According to this other source, I am correct that it releases/allows more dopamine release, which can cause bruxism, my first source.
Edited by Godfather1376 (11/15/13 07:13 PM)
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Asking for a source to back up your claim is not trolling . . .
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
MDMA is known as a psychedelic
MDMA is not considered a psychedelic
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
When, as someone else said, this has been discussed and answered various times, kind of seems like it. Starting an argument on something already answered in order to stir up the audience is nearly the definition of trolling. People came to agreement and looked through previous threads for answers, which they found, while you gave a completely biased and unscientific reasoning for the same problem.
So MDMA therapy sessions are just a myth? The only people who indulge in it are ravers sweating their balls off to loud music or to stay up all night? No... Marijuana is even considered a low-grade psychedelic...
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Again, asking for a source is not trolling. I asked for a source, you posted one. No torlling involved there.
What you are doing now is closer to trolling. Starting a debate that has nothing to do with the original post
Quote:
So MDMA therapy sessions are just a myth?
When did I say that? Good job at putting words in my mouth. Just because MDMA can be therapeutic does not automatically make it a psychedelic. And it is not, in fact, a psychedelic.
Also I never said anything about weed not being a psychedelic, but that really has nothing to do with what we are talking about
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
It has many things to do with what we are talking about. I am showing that not all drugs have only one classification, and that the various effects are being dealt on your body, like being flooded with dopamine, can be done by many things. You argue that MDMA is not a psychedelic, attempting to refute how I related MDMA and LSD. If your only definition is that psychedelics give hallucinations, then by this erowid Q and A, MDMA is a psychedelic, however little. Therefore my correlation between MDMA and LSD is correct, as they both produce hallucinations depending on dose and both release dopamine.
https://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=219
My point is that just like MDMA is not only a stimulant, LSD is not only a hallucinogenic. Therapy sessions (I doubt) will not come around from just the wonderful feeling of rubbing your clothes on MDMA because they feel so good, but from something much deeper, or more psychedelic. While visuals are infrequent on MDMA, the same can be said for marijuana.
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
and how about psychedelic by the wiki definiton?
"A psychedelic substance is a psychoactive drug whose primary action is to alter cognition and perception."
IDK about you but MDMA sure as hell does that to me.
Furthermore from the psychedelic drug wiki page,
"The empathogen-entactogens are phenethylamines of the MDxx class such as MDMA, MDEA, and MDA. Their effects are characterized by feelings of openness, euphoria, empathy, love, heightened self-awareness, and by mild audio and visual distortions (an overall enhancement of sensory experience is often reported). Their adoption by the rave subculture is probably due to the enhancement of the overall social and musical experience. MDA is atypical to this experience, often causing hallucinations and psychedelic effects in equal profundity to the chemicals in the 5-HT2A agonist category, but with substantially less mental involvement, and is possibly both a serotonin releaser and 5-HT2A receptor agonist.[citation needed]"
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Calling me a troll for asking for a source is what I was referring to. That has nothing to do with this discussion.
And while MDMA can have hallucinogenic properties it is not considered a psychedelic. And while LSD can have stimulant properties it is not considered a stimulant. Sometimes it can give people energy, sometimes it will have you stuck in one spot for several hours. It affects different people in different ways
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said: and how about psychedelic by the wiki definiton?
"A psychedelic substance is a psychoactive drug whose primary action is to alter cognition and perception."
IDK about you but MDMA sure as hell does that to me.
Furthermore from the psychedelic drug wiki page,
"The empathogen-entactogens are phenethylamines of the MDxx class such as MDMA, MDEA, and MDA. Their effects are characterized by feelings of openness, euphoria, empathy, love, heightened self-awareness, and by mild audio and visual distortions (an overall enhancement of sensory experience is often reported). Their adoption by the rave subculture is probably due to the enhancement of the overall social and musical experience. MDA is atypical to this experience, often causing hallucinations and psychedelic effects in equal profundity to the chemicals in the 5-HT2A agonist category, but with substantially less mental involvement, and is possibly both a serotonin releaser and 5-HT2A receptor agonist.[citation needed]"
I agree MDA can produce some pretty psychedelic effects. MDMA is not a psychedelic.
I consider psychedlics something that if you take enough of it, your consciousness will be blasted from your body out into the cosmos, so to speak. You can take as much as you want, for the most part, without any ill physical effects. It can provide pure love, or pure hell. It can lift you up or completely destroy your world. MDMA IS NOT a psychedelic
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Your willingness to argue about something you have no care to research yourself, and continue once evidence is given, resembles trolling IMO. Obviously you were extremely angry that I called you that, and I'm sorry if you didn't read the whole of what I said. "No offense if you were looking for extra information" is exactly what it means. Instead of legitimately discussing why you might think I'm wrong, you decide to make a claim that "MDMA is not a psychedelic" when you are yet to research this information yourself, obviously. It took no more than a google search to get this information I've cited for you, something you seem to not want to do, but require of others for their theory to be considered. Instead of blindly believing you saying "MDMA is not a psychedelic" or blindly arguing against it, I actually give proof of what I say.
Like I said earlier, for someone who want so much empirical evidence, you are yet to contribute any of your own, except your own assumptions.
That is YOUR definition of psychedelic, not the medical definition. Marijuana does not send you into another world, but you agreed with me that it is a psychedelic. So which is it?
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
and continue once evidence is given, resembles trolling IMO
I have not continued to argue about it once you posted the source I requested.
You have not backed up your claim that MDMA is considered a psychedelic in the professional medical community. IT is just your opinion.
Quote:
Marijuana does not send you into another world
Wrong. THC in high doses can put people with low tolerances into another world very easily. Especially with dabs.
Quote:
That is YOUR definition of psychedelic, not the medical definition.
Yet the classic psychedelics such as LSD, mescaline, DMT, psilocybin, follow those guidelines
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
As someone who took a many year break before I got my medical card and used BHO to avoid plant material, I disagree completely. By itself, marijuana works on none of the same receptors as your "typical" psychedelics. Marijuana and MDMA neither are 5-HT2A agonists, which all those other psychedelics, even MDA, are. So if neither are agonists, where do we draw the line where something is psychedelic or not? Now I would like more information on why marijuana enhances visuals after taking a 5-HT2A agonist, if you have any cited source for that?
I sourced psychedelic drug wiki about MDMA, it isn't my opinion, it's the general consensus. Do you need the link too, can't just google it?
Here is a list of various psychedelics, from 5-HT2A agonists like LSD, to things like 5-HT agonists like MDMA, to CB-1 agonists (being cannabis).
http://ubron.org/groupdocs/List%20of%20Psychedelic%20Drugs.pdf
So if all of these are in different categories completely, how can we relate marijuana to 5-HT2A agonists, when MDMA is left out?
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
By how it interacts with the brain, MDMA is much closer to psychedelics than marijuana. 5-HT is a close receptive "cousin" if you will, of the 5-HT2A receptors. Cannabinoid receptors are in a completely different class in this respect.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said: As someone who took a many year break before I got my medical card and used BHO to avoid plant material, I disagree completely. By itself, marijuana works on none of the same receptors as your "typical" psychedelics. Marijuana and MDMA neither are 5-HT2A agonists, which all those other psychedelics, even MDA, are. So if neither are agonists, where do we draw the line where something is psychedelic or not? Now I would like more information on why marijuana enhances visuals after taking a 5-HT2A agonist, if you have any cited source for that?
I sourced psychedelic drug wiki about MDMA, it isn't my opinion, it's the general consensus. Do you need the link too, can't just google it?
Here is a list of various psychedelics, from 5-HT2A agonists like LSD, to things like 5-HT agonists like MDMA, to CB-1 agonists (being cannabis).
http://ubron.org/groupdocs/List%20of%20Psychedelic%20Drugs.pdf
So if all of these are in different categories completely, how can we relate marijuana to 5-HT2A agonists, when MDMA is left out?
Well again, you are putting words in my mouth. I never said THC was or was not a psychedelic. YOU are the one who brought up marijuana. While it does have some psychedelic effects, it is not a true psychedelic. It is considered a psychoactive.
And coming from someone who lives in the weed capital of the U.S., I have given many people dabs that came back hors later saying they were tripping balls.
And why bring up all od those other drugs. All I am saying is that MDMA is not considered a psychedelic in the medical community, which it is not.
That site has no sources except wiki, and wiki does not classify MDMA as a psychedelic, nor does any proffesional medical journal.
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
You cannot come up with any legit source saying MDMA is a psychedelic because it is not . . .
This thread is so derailed
gotta love the shroomery where most of the threads degenerate into a pointless argument . . .
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: Calling me a troll for asking for a source is what I was referring to. That has nothing to do with this discussion.
I asked, not accused. I asked, because for someone so eager for information, you seem to want to require source info from someone who voices a logical conclusion they came up to, but have none to give for yourself. You argue your opinion without any form of citation, yet criticize me when I did the same.
I satisfied both of your questions how LSD releases dopamine, and how dopamine causes jaw tension, using my relation to MDMA, and your only response was your opinion that MDMA isn't a psychedelic. That might be your personal opinion, but these sources, not my opinion, say different, that MDMA is just as psychedelic.
I then compare to marijuana, where you say that MDMA cannot send you "into the cosmos" like it does, but that is all subjective, and probably more based on set and setting rather than the drug. No one in a rave is going to have a deep experience on MDMA, but blind drug-therapy is known to be done with it. The "going into the cosmos" on MDMA might not be experienced unless you are in such a session.
Really? Putting words in your mouth? You didn't say that "high doses of THC" are psychedelic and send you in another world? Because that is exactly what one of your previous posts said. Are you back-tracking now?
oh wow, your from California too? What a coincidence, so am I. It means nothing lol. In many ways, Colorado and Washington are far ahead of us, especially in the winterizing processes in BHO.
I fucking QUOTED from the wiki page saying that MDMA is a psychedelic, how did you miss that?
In any case, whether we agree about the psychedelic class or not, this thread's question has been answered thoroughly. I don't care to argue farther with someone who is now refuting his own statements, with still not a single source to be found, while I have fought to try to show you something legitimate. Liquid, I'm sure you are a nice person, but you need to take advice from your own signature. I have listened to what you said, researched it, and found that the medical community (by as what wiki contains) disagrees with you. You however, despite my position, continue to think that you know all there is to know about these drugs and cannot possibly be wrong in your assumption.
I do apologize for asking if you were trolling, but you own lack of interest to research in a subject you continue to argue a point on led me to such a conclusion. I hope you can at least logically consider my stance, rather than just spout out again, without any proof, that "MDMA isn't a psychedelic".
Edited by Godfather1376 (11/15/13 08:45 PM)
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: Wrong. THC in high doses can put people with low tolerances into another world very easily. Especially with dabs.
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: I never said anything about weed not being a psychedelic, but that really has nothing to do with what we are talking about
Really, putting words in your mouth....
Edited by Godfather1376 (11/15/13 08:42 PM)
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said:
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: Calling me a troll for asking for a source is what I was referring to. That has nothing to do with this discussion.
I asked, not accused. I asked, because for someone so eager for information, you seem to want to require source info from someone who voices a logical conclusion they came up to, but have none to give for yourself. You argue your opinion without any form of citation, yet criticize me when I did the same.
I satisfied both of your questions how LSD releases dopamine, and how dopamine causes jaw tension, using my relation to MDMA, and your only response was your opinion that MDMA isn't a psychedelic. That might be your personal opinion, but these sources, not my opinion, say different, that MDMA is just as psychedelic.
I then compare to marijuana, where you say that MDMA cannot send you "into the cosmos" like it does, but that is all subjective, and probably more based on set and setting rather than the drug. No one in a rave is going to have a deep experience on MDMA, but blind drug-therapy is known to be done with it. The "going into the cosmos" on MDMA might not be experienced unless you are in such a session.
Really? Putting words in your mouth? You didn't say that "high doses of THC" aren't psychedelic and send you in another world? Because that is exactly what one of your previous posts said. Are you back-tracking now?
oh wow, your from California too? What a coincidence, so am I. It means nothing lol. In many ways, Colorado and Washington are far ahead of us, especially in the winterizing processes in BHO.
I fucking QUOTED from the wiki page saying that MDMA is a psychedelic, how did you miss that?
In any case, whether we agree about the psychedelic class or not, this thread's question has been answered thoroughly. I don't care to argue farther with someone who is now refuting his own statements, with still not a single source to be found, while I have fought to try to show you something legitimate. Liquid, I'm sure you are a nice person, but you need to take advice from your own signature. I have listened to what you said, researched it, and found that the medical community (by as what wiki contains) disagrees with you. You however, despite my position, continue to think that you know all there is to know about these drugs and cannot possibly be wrong in your assumption.
I do apologize for asking if you were trolling, but you own lack of interest to research in a subject you continue to argue a point on led me to such a conclusion. I hope you can at least logically consider my stance, rather than just spout out again, without any proof, that "MDMA isn't a psychedelic".
You have not posted any sources saying MDMA was as psychedelic as LSD. And yes I live in California, in Humboldt county, I am sure you are familiar.
And yes you satisfied my questions on jaw tension, but then you went on to make the false statement that MDMA is considered a psychedelic which it is not. Check the wiki, it does not say MDMA is a psychedelic, nor does the medical community.
I consider your opinion that MDMA may produce some psychedelic like effects, but it still does not have anywhere near the power of a real psychedelic
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said:
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: Wrong. THC in high doses can put people with low tolerances into another world very easily. Especially with dabs.
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: I never said anything about weed not being a psychedelic, but that really has nothing to do with what we are talking about
Really, putting words in your mouth....
Yes, you were implying that I said THC was a psychedelic, when I only implied it had psychedelic properties. I am not of the opinion it is a real psychedelic
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
And btw Liquid, by wiki definition, which I will post this time since you are unable to read that my MDMA definition was from wiki as well, this is what psychoactive really means:
"A psychoactive drug, psychopharmaceutical, or psychotropic is a chemical substance that crosses the blood–brain barrier and acts primarily upon the central nervous system where it affects brain function, resulting in alterations in perception, mood, consciousness, cognition, and behavior.[1]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug
That is literally EVERY drug, from cocaine to LSD.
You are spouting off terms that you act as if you are well versed in, but are completely incorrect.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
From the link YOU posted:
Quote:
Although most people don't experience much in the way of visuals from MDMA, a small percentage of people do. In general these 'visuals' are not described as incredibly interesting, not comparing to visuals that most people experience with the classic psychedelics, but are instead visual effects such as those you describe. Some of these can be explained by the nystigmus (eye wiggling) which is common with MDMA, and others are simply explained by individual variations in response from person to person.
If you have reason to believe that the material you have encountered is high quality MDMA, and that other's around you do not experience these effects, you are most likely just one of the people who experiences these effects. If, on the other hand, you had only experienced this after some particular material, or if others experienced it with you on certain occasions and not on others, it could be a result of the ecstasy being MDA, which is similar in effect to MDMA but is more likely to cause visuals.
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said: And btw Liquid, by wiki definition, which I will post this time since you are unable to read that my MDMA definition was from wiki as well, this is what psychoactive really means:
"A psychoactive drug, psychopharmaceutical, or psychotropic is a chemical substance that crosses the blood–brain barrier and acts primarily upon the central nervous system where it affects brain function, resulting in alterations in perception, mood, consciousness, cognition, and behavior.[1]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug
That is literally EVERY drug, from cocaine to LSD.
You are spouting off terms that you act as if you are well versed in, but are completely incorrect.
Quote:
Godfather1376 said: And btw Liquid, by wiki definition, which I will post this time since you are unable to read that my MDMA definition was from wiki as well, this is what psychoactive really means:
"A psychoactive drug, psychopharmaceutical, or psychotropic is a chemical substance that crosses the blood–brain barrier and acts primarily upon the central nervous system where it affects brain function, resulting in alterations in perception, mood, consciousness, cognition, and behavior.[1]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug
That is literally EVERY drug, from cocaine to LSD.
You are spouting off terms that you act as if you are well versed in, but are completely incorrect.
This does not have anything to do with what we are arguing about and does not help to prove your point in any way
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
You specifically defined psychedelics as drugs that will bring "you out of your body into the cosmos" and then claim that people get put into another world, or the "cosmos" easily with high doses of THC. That is exactly what you said, and now you are back-tracking.
That is why I posed a question to you, one that you went over completely. If you classify marijuana as a psychedelic and it doesn't have intense visual effects, how can we leave MDMA out when in effect, it is much closer than marijuana.
No it isn't, but I am revealing by your inaccuracy that you are not even trying to correctly describe something, and are using these terms to your own gain when your use of them is completely incorrect. All drugs are psychoactive, not just cannabis. Cannabis, however, is in the PSYCHEDELIC category, which you refuted to earlier.
If you cannot see where you are incorrect and are unwilling to do so, then this conversation is over. I noted to you that I agreed that marijuana is a low-grade psychedelic and so is MDMA, and asked you where do we draw the line? You said you draw the line if something takes you to the "cosmos" then said that THC can do such. As we got closer to agreement, you backtracked yourself saying that it might have psychedelic properties, but isn't a psychedelic.
I think you need to reevaluate what the term psychedelic means to you, and get a firm stance. Not be all wishy-washy, using terms that don't even apply to the drug(s) we were discussing, saying that marijuana isn't a psychedelic, is a psychoactive. All drugs are psychoactive, and have their own categories to which they belong.
Edited by Godfather1376 (11/15/13 09:04 PM)
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said: You specifically defined psychedelics as drugs that will bring "you out of your body into the cosmos" and then claim that people get put into another world, or the "cosmos" easily with high doses of THC. That is exactly what you said, and now you are back-tracking.
That is why I posed a question to you, one that you went over completely. If you classify marijuana as a psychedelic and it doesn't have intense visual effects, how can we leave MDMA out when in effect, it is much closer than marijuana.
No it isn't, but I am revealing by your inaccuracy that you are not even trying to correctly describe something, and are using these terms to your own gain when your use of them is completely incorrect.
Obviously my definition is not the standard accepted definition and I do not claim it to be. IMO high doses of THC are closer to psychedelic than MDMA. I am not backtracking anything and never stated that I think THC was a true psych. You brought TCH into the mix.
The only thing I am currently arguing is that MDMA is not a psychedelic. I am now going to refrain from responding to any post you make that tries to change the subject.
This argument is going in circles. Until you prove that MDMA is considered a psychedelic in the medical community I have nothing more to say. have a great evening
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
The standard definition is the MEDICAL definition...
This page specifically
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug
says, and I quote, AGAIN in section 5, pharmacological classes and effects, under empathogens, (please note other psychedelics, such as marijuana, LSD, and also dissociatives, are in this section too)
"The empathogen-entactogens are phenethylamines of the MDxx class such as MDMA, MDEA, and MDA. Their effects are characterized by feelings of openness, euphoria, empathy, love, heightened self-awareness, and by mild audio and visual distortions (an overall enhancement of sensory experience is often reported). Their adoption by the rave subculture is probably due to the enhancement of the overall social and musical experience. MDA is atypical to this experience, often causing hallucinations and psychedelic effects in equal profundity to the chemicals in the 5-HT2A agonist category, but with substantially less mental involvement, and is possibly both a serotonin releaser and 5-HT2A receptor agonist.[citation needed]"
I have given proof that MDMA is medically considered a psychedelic, you just refuse to accept that standard definition of psychedelic. Which is fine. You are arguing that your definition IS the medical definition, which it is definitely not.
While I agree that MDMA is not nearly as "off-worldy" to something that is more of a 5-HT2A agonist, like MDA, the scientific community still places it and marijuana in the psychedelic category, whether you agree with them or not.
I am now going to close this thread off my desktop because people who cannot take constructive criticism don't deserve too much attention. I've said my peace, and you've said yours. Whether you can even objectively see my position is a real question I have. Your biased opinion clouds the information that I have cited for you, and that information is something you requested.
Edited by Godfather1376 (11/15/13 09:19 PM)
|
sytar
Radiant



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
|
|
Guys. Stop arguing. It is obvious that liquid glass is being a huge retard. I'm 99% sure that everyone else reading this thread is thinking the same. Save your breath.
-------------------- I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
The empathogen-entactogens are phenethylamines of the MDxx class such as MDMA, MDEA, and MDA. Their effects are characterized by feelings of openness, euphoria, empathy, love, heightened self-awareness, and by mild audio and visual distortions (an overall enhancement of sensory experience is often reported). Their adoption by the rave subculture is probably due to the enhancement of the overall social and musical experience. MDA is atypical to this experience, often causing hallucinations and psychedelic effects in equal profundity to the chemicals in the 5-HT2A agonist category, but with substantially less mental involvement, and is possibly both a serotonin releaser and 5-HT2A receptor agonist.[citation needed]
Again, yes it has some psychedelic effects, but it is not considered a true psychedelic and your source does not classify it as one.
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: sytar]
#19142949 - 11/15/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sytar said: Guys. Stop arguing. It is obvious that liquid glass is being a huge retard. I'm 99% sure that everyone else reading this thread is thinking the same. Save your breath.
What a great contribution to the argument. All you have to add is calling people names? How about saying what it is you do not agree with or proving me wrong?
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Ugh, fine, one last time.
May I ask how?
Section 5 in the wiki is meant to show classes of psychedelics and examples....
it goes like this: Serotonergic or classical psychedelics (5-HT2A receptor agonists) (your definition) Empathogen-entactogens (serotonin releasers) (MDMA is in this) Cannabinoids (CB-1 cannabinoid receptor agonists) Dissociatives (NMDA antagonists) Other (only salvia in this one)
Now assuming that we only think serotonergic psychedelics are the only "true" psychedelics (LSD, mescaline, shrooms), will you agree that Salvia and dissociatives are not psychedelics either?
As someone with Salvia experience (although I can't say much about dissociatives) I would thoroughly consider Salvia psychedelic. If we think that high doses of marijuana can cause visuals, can we not say the same for high doses of MDMA, LSD, dissociatives? Possibly, arguing marijuana has visual properties. Can we also say that a low enough dose of any of these won't give visuals? Yes. True we don't have many trip reports on the subject of super high MDMA doses, that might be useful. (don't take such a high dose for the sake of a report, anyone with a clever idea, I don't feel like being the one to get someone to OD on MDMA lol) But just because these don't fall in the "classic" category, doesn't make them any less of a psychedelic.
Also, 25i and other RC's are phenethylamines, as you emboldened. They are psychedelics, although many people don't prefer them.
And sytar, not trying to be devils advocate, but yea, random name calling isn't helpful to the conversation. Try to keep it adult and logical
Edited by Godfather1376 (11/15/13 09:36 PM)
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
True we don't have many trip reports on the subject of super high MDMA doses, that might be useful.
Super high doses will kill you, that is why
Quote:
Section 5 in the wiki is meant to show classes of psychedelics and examples....
And if you read at the bottom of the paragraph on Empathogen-entactogens (serotonin releasers), it says "citation needed" That is because thee is no source to back it up, it is not considered a psychedelic in the medical community.
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
Edited by LiquidGlass (11/15/13 09:45 PM)
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Also, 25i and other RC's are phenethylamines
SO is mescaline
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Well yes of course too high of a dose will kill you, thus my disclaimer...However, people take ridiculously high doses of things like Robo and tons of other drugs, and not just the safest ones like LSD or shrooms, so a person taking an intense amount of MDMA isn't so far fetched.
I understand your point, but no, it says that because Wiki doesn't have a source attached to that specific category, doesn't mean there isn't such info out there.
Straight from the good old government...
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/methylenedioxymethamphetamine.htm
it does show it's relation to stimulants via relation to methamphetamine, but there is more...
"Drug Class: Mild CNS stimulant, empathogen, entactogen, mild hallucinogen and psychedelic, appetite suppressant."
"Pharmacodynamics: MDMA is a phenylethylamine that has stimulant as well as psychedelic effects. MDMA is related in structure and effects to methamphetamine, however, it has significantly less CNS stimulant properties than methamphetamine. MDMA has a high affinity for 5-HT 2 receptors. Both S- and R- enantiomers of MDMA cause acute depletion of presynaptic serotonin (5-HT), depression of 5-HT synthesis by tryptophan hydroxylase, and retrograde destruction of 5-HT neurons following high doses. MDMA also increases levels of norepinephrine and dopamine. The MDMA metabolite, S-(+)- MDA, elicits more stereotypic behavior and is an even more potent neurotoxin than the parent drug. MDA destroys serotonin-producing neurons which play a direct role in regulating aggression, mood, sexual activity, sleep, and sensitivity to pain."
It also seems by this that MDA is a metabolite of MDMA, and as such while taking MDMA, MDA is introduced, which we both agree is a psychedelic.
point taken, so is mescaline, enhancing my position that phenylethylamines like MDMA quite closely related to a "classic" psychedelic.
Edited by Godfather1376 (11/15/13 09:58 PM)
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
The government is not the medical community and that is not the accepted definition within the medical community
The government? Really?
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
sytar
Radiant



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
|
|
You made your point and liquid glass ain't getting it. Thought I'd do you a favor and let you know what the audience is thinking, but if you're bashing your head against this wall for your own benefit alone have at it. Just thought i'd drop by and let you know: hey, everyone already sees that you won this argument.
-------------------- I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: sytar]
#19143111 - 11/15/13 10:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sytar said: You made your point and liquid glass ain't getting it. Thought I'd do you a favor and let you know what the audience is thinking, but if you're bashing your head against this wall for your own benefit alone have at it. Just thought i'd drop by and let you know: hey, everyone already sees that you won this argument.
How so?
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: sytar]
#19143124 - 11/15/13 10:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
haha sytar my point isn't to show I'm correct to the audience, or to show that I've won it argument, it's to remove misinformation. But liquid, isn't the FDA run by our government? Aren't they the medical community, along with the AMA, who dictate what drugs are legal or illegal or beneficial or not? The medical community is mostly run BY the government. Therefore a source from their medical people is certainly relevant.
Even if we disagree about legality with them, their physical description of the drug is not incorrect. Oh and my apologies if you want specifics, the American government, not The government....The American government controls the FDA and their doctors consult with the AMA.
Edited by Godfather1376 (11/15/13 10:11 PM)
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said: haha sytar my point isn't to show I'm correct to the audience, or to show that I've won it argument, it's to remove misinformation. But liquid, isn't the FDA run by our government? Aren't they the medical community, along with the AMA, who dictate what drugs are legal or illegal or beneficial or not? The medical community is mostly run BY the government. Therefore a source from their medical people is certainly relevant.
Even if we disagree about legality with them, their physical description of the drug is not incorrect.
Many hospitals and universities where they do those types of studies are privately owned. That is quite a stretch to say that the medical community as a whole is the same as the government.
the FDA is not the medical community.
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
And if they were the same, why would they have different definitions for the same drug?
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
They aren't run by the government, but each hospital/university is a part of the AMA, and the AMA and the FDA consult each other. Like how the AMA would show through trials a drug that needs passing, so the FDA puts it through more trials to pass their standard before it's commercially available. If the FDA decides that the drug isn't safe enough, it doesn't get passed. Now IMO, that means that ultimately, the government is in charge and eventually the official voice of the medical community.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Regardless there is no medically accaepted definition of MDMA being a psychedelic. I have been in the seen for 16 years. Most people I have partied with do not consider it one either.
They call it tripping for a reason, because you can literally go on a trip to somewhere else. On MDMA you know exactly what is going on and where you are. Yes it can cause slight changes in visual perception, but is not psychedelic.
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Again, you need to read what the term "empathogen" means....
"The terms empathogen and entactogen are used to describe a class of psychoactive drugs that produce distinctive emotional and social effects similar to those of MDMA (ecstasy)"
This term was basically created to give meaning to the social and emotional effect of MDMA, not to classify the drug away from any others...If LSD always made you super happy constantly, it'd be an empathogen AND a psychedelic, but it doesn't, or else bad acid trips probably wouldn't exist.
LSD is a psychedelic ONLY.... MDMA is a psychedelic AND and empathogen....it is a sub class within the psychedelic class, which is a sub class within all psychoactive drugs.
yet again sir, you are using YOUR definition of psychedelic, not the real one... "A psychedelic substance is a psychoactive drug whose primary action is to alter cognition and perception....Unlike other drugs such as stimulants and opioids which induce familiar states of consciousness, psychedelics tend to affect and explore the mind in ways that result in the experience being qualitatively different from those of ordinary consciousness."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug
Meaning that instead of only being an upper/downer in the same state of consciousness, it changes the conciousness. Cocaine or heroin won't make you love or change your mind on a subject, but MDMA, and other psychedelics, will.
not relevant, but points to how marijuana is a psychedelic, which would, to me, associate MDMA "psychedelic therapy" too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug
"Many psychedelic drugs worldwide are illegal unless used in a medical context, such as psychedelic therapy or medical cannabis. Despite these regulations, recreational use of psychedelics is common."
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Quote:
LiquidGlass said: Most people I have partied with do not consider it one either.
Ever talk to someone who's had an MDMA therapy session. I'd imagine their opinion would be far different....Like I said earlier, a bunch of people partying on MDMA are not going to get a spiritual or therapeutic experience. A bunch of people dancing on LSD will not have that experience either. That's why McKenna suggested complete darkness and silence for a "heroic dose" or a really deep trip in general. These distractions like parties are not going to give you that kind of experience.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
These distractions like parties are not going to give you that kind of experience.
Apparently you have not taken enough psychedelics to know that when you get complete ego death, it does not matter your surroundings because you are gone. You will get to the point that you do not know who you are, what you are, or where you are. You are just pure being and consciousness. You know nothing that came before that moment, nothing after matters. Your body is moving around with eyes open, but your mind is disintegrated into a million fractals and your mind no longer comprehends what it means to be human. That is the power of psychedelics. MDMA will NEVER provide that.
You have still failed to provide any legit medical source for MDMA being an actual psychedelic. You are going merely on opinion. YOu obviously cannot come up with any professional sources.
You can go on and keep telling yourself that is is a psychedelic when it would never open you consciousness like a real psychedelic would. A full blown MDMA experience cannot and will not ever compare to a full blown psychedelic experience. They are definitely not in the same category.
I am done with this argument, it is clear that wiki is your only source . . . I have better things to do and I have wasted way too much time already. If you want to keep spreading misinformation I do not even care any more. Peace.
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Wow, what an angry attitude to have....You get mad at a simple discussion and then decide to question what I have experienced in my own life...I am trying to base my opinion on facts I find, while you just sit here and argue that because you go to a bunch of parties, you have worthwhile experience.....Have you read a single book by any well known author for psychedelics? Even thought about the practice of meditation or anything? True people have varying levels of distraction, and of course a higher and higher dose will make that less relevant, but can you really say that loud music and a bunch of drunk/MDMA'd out dancers is a setting where you will find serious spiritual enlightenment, or ego dissolution?
You describe it fine, just like anyone else who claims they dissolved their ego, but have you actually experienced it? Your attitude of "I am always right, you are always wrong, even with written evidence" seems to say otherwise. I have even tried to somewhat come to an agreement with you, yet you continue to distance your opinion from one that is mutually agreeable to both of us. Yes, I site wiki, and 2 government sites, and erowid I believe once in this discussion. You, however, seem to think that all these sources are wrong and you, with your infinite knowledge, are right. Even when shown you were wrong on the jaw tension issue, you cannot be a man and say you were wrong, much less apologize...I gave this one last shot, and you still cannot understand, maybe you just weren't meant to...
IF A MOD SEE'S THIS, PLEASE CLOSE THE THREAD, THE JAW QUESTION HAS BEEN ANSWERED AND THIS DEAD HORSE HAS BEEN BEATEN FOR TOO LONG.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Ok since you make all these assumptions about me I will go ahead and respond even though I am wasting so much time when you still have provided no evidence.
Quote:
You get mad at a simple discussion
I have not gotten angry at any point in this discussion
Quote:
I am trying to base my opinion on facts I find, while you just sit here and argue that because you go to a bunch of parties,
There you go putting words in my mouth again. I never said I went to a bunch of parties. In fact I rarely go to shows or festivals.
Quote:
Have you read a single book by any well known author for psychedelics? Even thought about the practice of meditation or anything?
I have read several books on psychedelics and meditation. I practice bikram yoga weekly. Most of my trips take place out in the woods or at home, alone or with a few friends.
Quote:
True people have varying levels of distraction, and of course a higher and higher dose will make that less relevant, but can you really say that loud music and a bunch of drunk/MDMA'd out dancers is a setting where you will find serious spiritual enlightenment, or ego dissolution
I have had some of my most enlightening trips in these types of setting. I had complete ego dissolution at a drum circle with hundreds of people. Although I do not prefer to trip in those settings very often
Quote:
You describe it fine, just like anyone else who claims they dissolved their ego, but have you actually experienced it?
yes in fact I was describing a personal expereince I had at the drum circle previously mentioned. Not going off of anything I heard or read. I took 3 geltabs, got impatient and took 2 more 20 minutes later. I left my body and my consciousness was completely dissolved. The fire pit was a huge cement square the size of a pallet. It had burned down to just orange hot coals. In my mind we were standing around a portal to another dimension. It felt like the beginning of time. I did not remember anything of my life at that moment and the notion that I had eaten acid was long gone.
I remember thinking we all had to go into the poertal but everyone was a afraid. I do not remember going in, but luckily I had on some heavy leather boots and some friends that poured water on my boots when they had hot coals caked on the soles. After that, according to them, I just wandered around speaking in tongues for hours. My mind was gone
The next thing I knew it was as if i woke up from a nap, completely sober. there was no comedown. One second I was complete oblivion and the next I was standing there sober like WTF just happened. Thee is a lot more to that experience but too long to type right now
Quote:
Yes, I site wiki, and 2 government sites, and erowid I believe once in this discussion.
Well the erowid link reinforced my opinion that it is not a real psychedelic. And I would trust wiki before I trust the govt., but I do not trust either without any scientific evidence to back it up. And niether one has that
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
Edited by LiquidGlass (11/15/13 11:39 PM)
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
(Sigh) Whatever, man, it is obvious you are incapable of seeing another person's point of view. I am done arguing about it, and don't care to hear stories from someone who has this Aristotle like ego about them. Like I have said before, listen to your own signature. You aren't the be-all end-all of knowledge in the universe, and are a fool to think you can not be incorrect. You have been corrected once, and in anger, have to refute every part of this conversation to make your point correct. You can't even leave well enough alone and just let this thread die. Someone doesn't share your point of view, sorry. You asked for citation, I provided. Case closed.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said: (Sigh) Whatever, man, it is obvious you are incapable of seeing another person's point of view. I am done arguing about it, and don't care to hear stories from someone who has this Aristotle like ego about them. Like I have said before, listen to your own signature. You aren't the be-all end-all of knowledge in the universe, and are a fool to think you can not be incorrect. You have been corrected once, and in anger, have to refute every part of this conversation to make your point correct. You can't even leave well enough alone and just let this thread die. Someone doesn't share your point of view, sorry. You asked for citation, I provided. Case closed.
I never said I was the be-all end-all knowledge in the universe. There you go putting words in my mouth yet again. And you accuse me of being angry again, but at no point in this conversation did I lose my temper. You say I wont let this thread die, that may be true but you realize you are just as guilty of that accusation.
You posted some sources, but not any legit ones, and saying nothing other than it has mild psychedelic properties, but is not a true psychedelic
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Just.....stop......it......I didn't say you said that. I said that is what your attitude comes off as, as you cannot take criticism........Just.......stop.....it......
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
Quote:
Godfather1376 said: Just.....stop......it......I didn't say you said that. I said that is what your attitude comes off as, as you cannot take criticism........Just.......stop.....it......
So because I have an opinion on one thing that you do not agree with that makes me have an Aristotle complex? ok lol
You could also take your own advice and just.........stop........it..........
Straight from Erowid( a source I turst way before wiki or the government ):
Quote:
COMMON & BRAND NAMES Ecstasy; E; X; XTC; Rolls; Beans; Adam; Molly
EFFECTS CLASSIFICATION Euphoric Empathogen; Stimulant; Phenethylamine
CHEMICAL NAME 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine
DESCRIPTION MDMA is one of the most popular recreational psychoactives, most commonly sold in the form of "ecstasy" tablets. It is known for its empathogenic, euphoric, and stimulant effects, and has also been used in psychotherapy.
Does not say anything about it being a psychedelic
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
Godfather1376
Psychedelic Aventurer



Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Wohoo for you that you found the exact same words I've been talking about this whole time...from now on, for your sake, I will now call MDMA an empathogen. Are you happy now? Will you finally let this thread go to the bottom and end? I'm assuming no, because it seems you have to have the last word. I now agree with you wholeheartedly, you are a god among men and no one shall refute your infinite wisdom.
And no, the fact that you cannot imagine yourself being wrong makes this philosopher complex of yours. Did you know that even philosophers were taught something by the average person sometimes, too? I have even admitted I am wrong on this thread, trying to agree with you at some medium point. You have no sense of how to properly converse and end an argument like a rational person. I am done listening to you, we are done listening to you, and your insistence to continue dredging this up is annoying.
Oh, and good job finding a source for anything you say, finally. Got to learn how to use that google, eh?
|
birdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
|
|
What the fuck is this needing to categorise, label and narrow down everything in to their separate little compartments of black and white.
Wow.
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
|
I do not think I am a God among men nor that I have infinite wisdom. I also never claimed to be a philosopher and I do not consider myself to be one. And I can imagine myself being wrong, I have been many times.
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
birdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
|
Re: Jaw tension and lsd [Re: cez]
#19143696 - 11/16/13 12:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
The jaw tension probably is related to the stimulation. Whether or not it's specifically caused by dopamine though I have no idea.
|
|