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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: setb]
    #19137350 - 11/14/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Rich people or corporations don't run society though the state does and it collects your wealth through taxes to fund itself. If you dislike a business you can boycott it. You can not however successfully boycott taxes and get away with it. A small state allows individuals to truly pursue there own dreams without being crushed by the collective.




If you take away government, you will be left with private interests filling the role, and usually private interests are only interested in making themselves more money.



And so what how is that bad private entities are more efficient. Also to clarify I am not an anarchist I support a small limited government.




I don't think the private entities are always more efficient. A single payer health insurance system is more efficient that hundreds of private insurance companies, each negotiating their own prices.




not in the US, in the US more is consumed by government waste than in the private sector

Quote:

setb said:
Quote:


Plus, I never ever said that poor people are the target. I said that only people who are over-consuming or breeding too much would be the target. The end result would be that poor people would more often end up dying, simply because they tend to be the ones that breed too often. The extravagantly wealthy who waste resources and money would also inevitably end up being targets.




Yep, you'd fit in nicely with the 20th century Progressives/Socialists.




that's probably because she's a 'progressive'


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #19137408 - 11/14/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
not in the US, in the US more is consumed by government waste than in the private sector





I think that's silly. Does the government collect our money and then just set fire to it? Bury it in a hole somewhere? Besides Iraq no,  They collect money to immediately spend on things, here now. You know where the money collected for foodstamps goes? To Walmart- where people exchange foodstamps for food. Walmart gets the money then wastes it by paying their CEOs more than they deserve.

Annnyway. I think this quote is relevant:

Quote:

"As things stand these days, we have ceased to see ourselves as living in a society and gotten used to seeing ourselves as being part of an economy.

Economies are only the ways societies feed and shelter themselves, which means they are only about money and how it works. But our particular economy is about making more money. More and more of it. Obscene amounts of it, for its own sake. And it works by treating all of us as interchangeable and disposable. We only matter to the degree we are useful to the making of more money. Once we are deemed not useful, once we are disposed of, that’s it. We cease to matter. Except as problems.

And costs.

This is not true.

It’s only the way things are because we’ve given control of the money and the making of money to assholes.

We aren’t here to make assholes money.

In the words of Dr Vonnegut, the novelist’s son, we are here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is."




We are not just customers and employees. We are People first.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Lynnch]
    #19137445 - 11/14/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes.  We are people.  We are not society.  Society is a fiction.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Lynnch]
    #19137471 - 11/14/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lynnch said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
not in the US, in the US more is consumed by government waste than in the private sector





I think that's silly. Does the government collect our money and then just set fire to it? Bury it in a hole somewhere? Besides Iraq no,  They collect money to immediately spend on things, here now. You know where the money collected for foodstamps goes? To Walmart- where people exchange foodstamps for food. Walmart gets the money then wastes it by paying their CEOs more than they deserve.







what the fuck are you on about

taxes are collected for welfare programs, 3/4 of it is wasted in the
bureaucracy, the same goes for most government spending.


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19137488 - 11/14/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Society is more real than the economy. We would still be human creatures interacting with each other even if we chose not to value money any more.

You could say the same for the administration of any business. "Whoa gee, we'd save tons of money if everyone were slaves, we could get rid of the payroll department!"


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Lynnch] * 1
    #19137504 - 11/14/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

its more economically beneficial to have paid workers because people on the pay roll have been shown to have levels of output orders of magnitude above slaves.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Lynnch]
    #19137526 - 11/14/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lynnch said:
Society is more real than the economy. We would still be human creatures interacting with each other even if we chose not to value money any more.. 


Well, no.  Money is not a sine qua non of an economy but I think the concept of an economy is just as much of a fiction as that of a society.  People tend to be lazy thinkers.
Quote:



You could say the same for the administration of any business. "Whoa gee, we'd save tons of money if everyone were slaves, we could get rid of the payroll department!"




No.  You would still have to feed and house the slaves.  Slave labor is not necessarily cheap labor.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19137574 - 11/14/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Lynnch said:
Society is more real than the economy. We would still be human creatures interacting with each other even if we chose not to value money any more.. 


Well, no.  Money is not a sine qua non of an economy but I think the concept of an economy is just as much of a fiction as that of a society.  People tend to be lazy thinkers.
Quote:



You could say the same for the administration of any business. "Whoa gee, we'd save tons of money if everyone were slaves, we could get rid of the payroll department!"




No.  You would still have to feed and house the slaves.  Slave labor is not necessarily cheap labor.




Not if you subcontracted the slaves. Think outside the box, Zappa. I thought you were a hard nosed businessman.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: koods]
    #19137665 - 11/14/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Subbing out what?  The slaves?  Why would I do that when I can sub you out and pay less?


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19138093 - 11/14/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that was a burn, or did this discussion just jump wildly to the topic of bdsm?
Err, It's not about the slaves! Get rid of payroll, and well actually all of upper management, and we'd save a ton of money! Or we could stop production entirely, therefore there would be nothing to buy, so we wouldn't be able to spend any money which equals huge savings everywhere!
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Well, no.  Money is not a sine qua non of an economy but I think the concept of an economy is just as much of a fiction as that of a society.  People tend to be lazy thinkers.



I tend to agree with you, but my idea is more that people interacting with people is more a core action than people bartering with each other and selling their own time and energy for goods. In some strange way, I feel society could exist without an economy. But an economy couldn't exist without society.


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19138104 - 11/14/13 08:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Yes.  We are people.  We are not society.  Society is a fiction.




:lolsy:

Ok, zappa.  Society is a fiction.  :lol:

I mean, do you even think about the shit you say before you say it?

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Subbing out what?  The slaves?  Why would I do that when I can sub you out and pay less?





Just like you pay your illegal immigrants who work for you?


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