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4Skins
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Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers)
#19134296 - 11/14/13 01:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Question for anyone willing to answer:
Do you think people who are religious/spiritual/believers in something will have a "better" trip. As opposed to a non-believer/non spiritual.
By "better," I mean, do you think it can help them as a person in the long run such as finding their selves and inner peace and whatnot?
All of my friends and I that trip are non-believers. Does that make our trips any less meaningful?
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Jesus Cristo
High on Drugs



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19134345 - 11/14/13 01:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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it might make a "believer" seriously question their beliefs. you could probably gain a lot of peace and mind from that--or not it depends. it could also do the opposite. depends what you mean by believer though.
itll make a spiritual person more spiritual though as long as their spirituality is 'genuine.'
imo
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19134353 - 11/14/13 01:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Everything happens.
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incubis
Lighter


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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19134361 - 11/14/13 01:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think it's not necessarily to view an experience as better with the context of being spiritual. Certainly I think you probably already feel it's so that a spiritual inclined person can better use these tools/medicines to gain better understanding in themselves and more.
-------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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4Skins
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: cez]
#19134362 - 11/14/13 01:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The 2nd time I tripped, I stared at the stars for about an hour and almost started crying. It almost made me a believer in something, that's why I ask this question.
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Nihon_Hyperspace
既視感


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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19134395 - 11/14/13 01:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sounds like you already answered your own question. Of course people going into the psychedelic experience with a spiritual approach will get more out of the experience than people using psyches with a recreational approach. Recreational psych users usually only care about visuals, which in my opinion in the last aspect of a true psychedelic experience.
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kneesocks
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Nihon_Hyperspace]
#19134400 - 11/14/13 01:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nihon_Hyperspace said: Sounds like you already answered your own question. Of course people going into the psychedelic experience with a spiritual approach will get more out of the experience than people using psyches with a recreational approach. Recreational psych users usually only care about visuals, which in my opinion in the last aspect of a true psychedelic experience.
Agree x 1000.
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
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OliverJames
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Nihon_Hyperspace]
#19134458 - 11/14/13 02:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I disagree, although I guess it depends on how you define spiritual. I've taken mushrooms before a concert, was seeing Bonobo, and the entire experience was incredibly eye opening without necessarily being spiritual. When I trip, music seems to unfold and unravel, as if I can observe each and every layer separately. It almost seemed as though I could see the sound pouring off the stages and engulfing the audience. The experience made me appreciate music in entirely new way. The experience was both recreational and enlightening. A trip does not need to be centered around spiritual beliefs to be enlightening for someone to "get more out of it."
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Deckard_Cain
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: OliverJames]
#19134857 - 11/14/13 05:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm a monist... 'what is spirit?'. The difference between some one who is spiritual and a materialist is usually their general level of awe and wonder about existence. Einstein said there were only two ways to view the world - that everything was a miracle or that nothing was. While I do not think that statement to be correct he's got a great underlying point there. Set and setting play a large role in the outcome/experience. Mind set (beliefs) will certainly play a large role in it. It could happen though that some one who considers themselves a materialist may have a more pleasant experience than some one who considers themselves on a spiritual path. There are many factors that play into it. I feel that a materialist who has had some great trips and gets introspective won't remain one for long though - at least not in the way he was. Material may come to mean something else for him/her or they may start asking questions and seeking out in directions they never considered before. Lots of speculation here..
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beforeIgetold
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19134868 - 11/14/13 06:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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After having tripped, I more or less had my non-belief reinforced... I reckon though it might get challenged by the next one which will be an ego dissolution attempt.
But the thing is... that what I experienced told me that the universe is more about just being itself, that whole one-ness thing, and there was no representation of "God" or anything like that. Just a tale of things living or trying to live in balance as a huge contrast to what humans are doing to Earth... we are pretty much in the process of destroying ourselves completely, and while I know that there are many people who liked to think that the "almighty" or some divine race of entities from outerspace will swoop in and save us from ourselves, I think we are pretty much left to ourselves to sort the mess out.
But all in all... I honestly don't think I'm getting less out of a trip due to lack of faith. Remember... faith is created by humans, what I saw inside was as such not created by humans. It's just... there.
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stuckinwonderland
Stranger



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: beforeIgetold]
#19134891 - 11/14/13 06:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I go back and forth with my belifs truth is I don't even know but I have had many spiritual experiences when seeking recreation and many recreational experiences seeking spiritual ones. but the one I will never forget was spiritual and a bad trip on oral dmt with a massive dose where I broke through for hours.
-------------------- Everything above here is a lie
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SteelPanther


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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: stuckinwonderland]
#19135020 - 11/14/13 07:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think people who take psychedelics to see cool visuals, or a good body high, get less out of it than people who take it to think and explore their consciousness.
-------------------- Everything I say on here is not true, I am an insecure person who lies about doing drugs and stuff to make myself feel good. So any illegal things I may have talked about are all fictional.
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EvilShaman
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: SteelPanther]
#19135118 - 11/14/13 08:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I use to have this buddy i would trip on shrooms and lsd a lot. I am a very spiritual person, especially when it comes to taking entheogens BUT my buddy was just not spiritual at all, didn't believe in something after death yada yada.
It was interesting watching him trip, especially on LSD. I noticed there were times he would get very uncomfortable and stare at me and say in his mind "how the fuck is he enjoying this"?
From my experience spiritual people or believers seem to have an easier time letting go. When non spiritual people tend to have very uncomfortable experiences at certain times when the needing of "letting go" is a must.
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www.soundcloud.com/shamanshyt Digital Reality, programmed software. We are vessels of knowledge.
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Aldebaran
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19135261 - 11/14/13 09:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
4Skins wrote: The 2nd time I tripped, I stared at the stars for about an hour and almost started crying. It almost made me a believer in something, that's why I ask this question.
You can eat your mushrooms as an athiest on a recreational trip and then 90 minutes later find yourself writing:
Quote:
If you take enough drugs God will reveal himself to you and you will believe.
It's like those old "I want to believe" posters.
Sometimes, this stuff will *make* you believe 
-------------------- I wrote that, but I meant something else
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Tombc1
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19135436 - 11/14/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
4Skins said: The 2nd time I tripped, I stared at the stars for about an hour and almost started crying. It almost made me a believer in something, that's why I ask this question.
I'm also an almost believer in something.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19135559 - 11/14/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do you think people who are religious/spiritual/believers in something will have a "better" trip. As opposed to a non-believer/non spiritual.
No. Absolutely not. A full face melting trip overcomes any belief system no matter how poorly formed, and substitutes a brand new experiential religious framework. Which you then have to figure out. 
Quote:
Of course people going into the psychedelic experience with a spiritual approach will get more out of the experience than people using psyches with a recreational approach.
Be careful what you wish for.
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (11/14/13 10:27 AM)
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4Skins
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: EvilShaman]
#19135590 - 11/14/13 10:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The "letting go" thing....
That's a big one.....
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mindgnome
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19135596 - 11/14/13 10:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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After psychedelics I am a believer in something. Not organized religion but I definitely believe there is a truth to the universe that can't be measured by science. To me there is something spiritual about traditional psychedelics. They have the ability to change your life completely and paths open up in your mind. It is hard to explain. It makes the hardest decision seem easy. It is barely explainable though. It is spiritual in the sense that it show you life is a step. To me life is the high school of whatever the bigger picture is and once you graduate that is when you have passed. Some people drop out, but most people graduate.
-------------------- "As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe "Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin
Edited by mindgnome (11/14/13 10:41 AM)
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HarryL
Squnä'am



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Aldebaran]
#19135739 - 11/14/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Am native American and a scientist
So... I can understand the belief systems that pervade the human experience. The belief in 'there is something else', whether that is a Christian god, Greek gods, native amarican heros and spirits, ghosts, magic, UFOs or whatever one wants to put their faith in. Even mushroom gods!
I can also understand te need to have rational answers that can be tested and reproduced.
Are we still naked apes, huddled together in caves, scared of the night and making up stories to sooth our fears? Or is there more to life than physics and chemistry?
Suppose each has to find their own answer. Can a Non-believer have a meaningful psychedelic experience, sure... Absolutely. There is enough amazing real things, planets and stars and trees... Why add mythology?
Will someone with spiritual beliefs looking for answers have a more meaningful experience than some kid who just wants escape and doesn't look for answers... Sure.
But is really a pretty complicated issue. I am also sure that someone who starts one journey, often ends up someplace they did not know they were going and are glad for that...mushrooms will do that...
Peace
-------------------- Mushroom hunting: One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.
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GreySatyr
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: HarryL]
#19135873 - 11/14/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've taken psychedelics for both reasons. Actually, I'm highly spiritual and I actually became spiritual through LSD however, I've taken psychs for recreation more than for spiritual reasons and it seems like it didn't matter and I received spiritual messages no matter what I took psychs for at the time. So I can't really answer the question because I've seen some people take psychs and not get shit out of it except a fun time and I've seen the exact opposite.
Personally, I prefer the spiritual side of it but I've done it more for recreation when I was younger but like I said, when I took them I wasn't thinking, "I wanna see some crazy shit", I was more or less wondering what I'd discover even though I was taking them in a recreational setting, I'm a dreamer and I typically stayed within my own mind while also interacting as any one would.
I've learned a lot and had a lot of fun.
I don't know anything but the spiritual side of psychs, there's only been a few times that I wasn't blessed with some spiritual message and that was typically on low doses although one time I took ten doses and just partied with very little spiritual message. Even those times that I wasn't blessed with a Message or insight, I was still open to a novel experience which created brain power in my opinion at least. It also depends on how you look at spirituality...
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: HarryL]
#19135909 - 11/14/13 11:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
HarryL said: Am native American and a scientist
So... I can understand the belief systems that pervade the human experience. The belief in 'there is something else', whether that is a Christian god, Greek gods, native amarican heros and spirits, ghosts, magic, UFOs or whatever one wants to put their faith in. Even mushroom gods!
I can also understand te need to have rational answers that can be tested and reproduced.
Are we still naked apes, huddled together in caves, scared of the night and making up stories to sooth our fears? Or is there more to life than physics and chemistry?
Suppose each has to find their own answer. Can a Non-believer have a meaningful psychedelic experience, sure... Absolutely. There is enough amazing real things, planets and stars and trees... Why add mythology?
Will someone with spiritual beliefs looking for answers have a more meaningful experience than some kid who just wants escape and doesn't look for answers... Sure.
But is really a pretty complicated issue. I am also sure that someone who starts one journey, often ends up someplace they did not know they were going and are glad for that...mushrooms will do that...
Peace
That last statement is me. I first took mushrooms as a dumb kid looking to see some cool colours and shit; now I am a full fledged spiritualist hippy ;p
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19136424 - 11/14/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Do you think people who are religious/spiritual/believers in something will have a "better" trip. As opposed to a non-believer/non spiritual.
No. Absolutely not. A full face melting trip overcomes any belief system no matter how poorly formed, and substitutes a brand new experiential religious framework. Which you then have to figure out. 
Quote:
Of course people going into the psychedelic experience with a spiritual approach will get more out of the experience than people using psyches with a recreational approach.
Be careful what you wish for.
PS
I agree with primal soup. The difference between a non spiritual tripper and a spiritual tripper is the dose
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Galidor4
Beholder



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19136492 - 11/14/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is a very interesting topic OP. Personally, I can't imagine a single aspect of Existence that isn't "spiritual", it's just whether you know it or not. I think what that means is best explained by the Einstein quote "either everything is a miracle or nothing is". The whole of Existence comes down to basic physics. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed, E=MC^3. Something(whatever that may be) has to happen after you die. It's physically impossible for nothing to happen. The fact that any one of us is existing the way we are is statistically improbable, and there are billions of us! it's all a miracle. But I digress, We all experience the same Existence, you aren't (unable to grasp reality) crazy, so that means that whatever you're experiencing is real and that makes it valid, in it's own way. Before, you chop wood and carry water. After, you chop wood and carry water. Spiritual, non-spiritual, it's all the same.
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my3rdeye



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19136781 - 11/14/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't believe in God yet he keeps showing up in my trips. I find it impossible to keep the spiritual out of my trips. It's always been my opinion that if everyone dropped there would be a boom in all kinds of spirituality.
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CliftonGK1
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19136797 - 11/14/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know that any one person can say that any other person will have a better or worse experience based on something as esoteric as spirituality or religious inclinations. I can only give my own experience.
As a collegiate I fell out from my religious upbringing, studied all different religion and spiritual philosophies, and then decades later found my way back to my original faith with a renewed strength and understanding which only comes from questioning your faith in the first place. Some years later, I was in what was certainly the wrong mindset to take anything psychoactive, much less the amount (albeit small to most people, it was a lot for me) of mushrooms that I did. Introspection, depression, and religion are a bad combination for a trip; and over the course of the next couple hours I came to a distinct realization of evil in the world; and that it isn't some extrinsic force which acts upon any of us, but that it resides in us; and whether you call it spirituality, religion, ethics, or morals, there is a very thin barrier keeping it at bay. I scared myself that day, and I haven't since ventured that far into my own brain again. Maybe some day I will. Maybe not. For me, it may be best not to go digging for answers I don't want to know.
--------------------
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19136832 - 11/14/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Something(whatever that may be) has to happen after you die.
Yes, you rot. That's physical. 
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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GreySatyr
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#19138166 - 11/14/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You become part of the earth, that's spiritual.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger

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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: my3rdeye]
#19138219 - 11/14/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
GreyMorph said: You become part of the earth, that's spiritual.
Yeah, just goes to show that you can take a spiritual approach to anything. it bothers me when people think it's black and white.
Quote:
my3rdeye said: I don't believe in God yet he keeps showing up in my trips. I find it impossible to keep the spiritual out of my trips. It's always been my opinion that if everyone dropped there would be a boom in all kinds of spirituality.
Maybe you shouldn't try to keep it out then, and just find ways to mold it to what you know. For example, god in my trips is "the all". The universe as a whole and how all of it's parts together function as a larger body the way all the cells in my own body do. To me, that totality is synonymous with "god", but it doesn't really change my "beliefs" only my perspective on the things i know. Gives it a sense of beauty and mystery that it used to not have.
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KingKnowledge
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19138280 - 11/14/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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We all believe in something.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19138724 - 11/14/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have found the quality of my trips has increased exponentially since I've been meditating on a regular basis. The funny thing though is that the frequency has reduced as well.
It's hard sometimes for me to know where to draw the line between spiritual and non spiritual. Is having an amazing time bonding with other human beings just as spiritual as sitting silently on a cushion burning incense?
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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ZippyHippyinWA
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: nicechrisman]
#19138771 - 11/14/13 10:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am a non-believer. I use shrooms completely recreationally. And after all the pretty lights are gone, after I have seen all those things in my mind that I cannot see sober, after the tears(yes there are usually tears), fears, and unfathomable understandings, when I have finally left my own mind, I am left a believer......in myself.
-------------------- “If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.” ― Terence McKenna
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incubis
Lighter


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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: nicechrisman]
#19139064 - 11/14/13 11:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said:
It's hard sometimes for me to know where to draw the line between spiritual and non spiritual. Is having an amazing time bonding with other human beings just as spiritual as sitting silently on a cushion burning incense?
I guess it all depends on what are the types human beings that you're bonding with. It could be immersely spiritual or absolutely waste of time.
-------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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4Skins
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: CliftonGK1]
#19139111 - 11/14/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You said that so incredibly well. I know exactly what you mean. The evil IS real, but in a different way than I thought before I had tripped and came to this mindset.
It's all so...haunting
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: incubis]
#19139836 - 11/15/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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incubis said:
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nicechrisman said:
It's hard sometimes for me to know where to draw the line between spiritual and non spiritual. Is having an amazing time bonding with other human beings just as spiritual as sitting silently on a cushion burning incense?
I guess it all depends on what are the types human beings that you're bonding with. It could be immersely spiritual or absolutely waste of time.
I do my best to not pass judgement on the quality of other human beings
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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sanchothestoner
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: nicechrisman]
#19140147 - 11/15/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's kind of like comparing the League for Spiritual Discovery and the Merry Pranksters. No matter your view, if your headspace is good you can get something out of the trip. I started off as a Merry Prankster type, then got I got quite spiritual with it, but I still consider myself a prankster. The experience relies on the person, and the experience doesn't care if you're spiritual or not. Some people will view the experience as spiritual, and some won't.
-------------------- I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you... But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!
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Icyus
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: nicechrisman]
#19140160 - 11/15/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Atleast what he has tried so far is alot like me....
I think a trippspirit(amine) may do like me and argument for what you think is wrong just to prowe you wrong and show you that you do not know a thing just for the fun of it..
Everything is relative and thus everything is correct in its own way, being wrong at the same time... When you know enough you may argue against someone less knowing that what they think is wrong, convince them, make them agree and then argue against that ...
I think perception is up to the individual and thus spiritual or not the expereance will vary.. or maybe one is correct and people do not know how to define spirituality?
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: nicechrisman]
#19140692 - 11/15/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said:
Quote:
incubis said:
Quote:
nicechrisman said:
It's hard sometimes for me to know where to draw the line between spiritual and non spiritual. Is having an amazing time bonding with other human beings just as spiritual as sitting silently on a cushion burning incense?
I guess it all depends on what are the types human beings that you're bonding with. It could be immersely spiritual or absolutely waste of time.
I do my best to not pass judgement on the quality of other human beings
All such distinctions are arbitrary.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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ShroomPaul
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: ZippyHippyinWA]
#19141679 - 11/15/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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ZippyHippyinWA said: I am a non-believer. I use shrooms completely recreationally. And after all the pretty lights are gone, after I have seen all those things in my mind that I cannot see sober, after the tears(yes there are usually tears), fears, and unfathomable understandings, when I have finally left my own mind, I am left a believer......in myself.
A very valid point.
Having been brought up in the Scottish Roman Catholic education system I took the only logical path 10 years ago and became an atheist.
It frustrates me that religious or "spiritual" people feel entitled to pass snide judgement on the faithless and claim the moral high-ground when my (lack of) belief has taken more thought and deliberation to form than that of most practising religious types that I know.
I'd be more comfortable if the delineation between trip types was meaningful vs recreational rather than spiritual vs non-spiritual.
When I trip I'm more interested in what I can learn by looking inwardly and challenging my own perceptions and beliefs than trying to find a higher meaning to our existence. I wonder how many spiritual types would have the courage to do the same...
My trips are every bit as enlightening as those of believers. You just couldn't call them "spiritual".
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ZippyHippyinWA
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: ShroomPaul]
#19141826 - 11/15/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomPaul said:
Quote:
ZippyHippyinWA said: I am a non-believer. I use shrooms completely recreationally. And after all the pretty lights are gone, after I have seen all those things in my mind that I cannot see sober, after the tears(yes there are usually tears), fears, and unfathomable understandings, when I have finally left my own mind, I am left a believer......in myself.
A very valid point.
Having been brought up in the Scottish Roman Catholic education system I took the only logical path 10 years ago and became an atheist.
It frustrates me that religious or "spiritual" people feel entitled to pass snide judgement on the faithless and claim the moral high-ground when my (lack of) belief has taken more thought and deliberation to form than that of most practising religious types that I know.
I'd be more comfortable if the delineation between trip types was meaningful vs recreational rather than spiritual vs non-spiritual.
When I trip I'm more interested in what I can learn by looking inwardly and challenging my own perceptions and beliefs than trying to find a higher meaning to our existence. I wonder how many spiritual types would have the courage to do the same...
My trips are every bit as enlightening as those of believers. You just couldn't call them "spiritual".
Amen brother!
-------------------- “If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.” ― Terence McKenna
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MagicalOrangutan
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: ZippyHippyinWA]
#19141977 - 11/15/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your brain is entirely physical and dictated ultimately by mere mathematical laws. If psychedelics tell you anything different, they're making you delusional
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: ShroomPaul]
#19143255 - 11/15/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
It frustrates me that religious or "spiritual" people feel entitled to pass snide judgement on the faithless and claim the moral high-ground when my (lack of) belief has taken more thought and deliberation to form than that of most practising religious types that I know.
Yes, but that's close-mindedness for you. When you know you're not wrong, you just can't be wrong. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Godfather1376
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19143720 - 11/16/13 12:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Paul, this is exactly the word I'd use to describe my interpretation. As an Agnostic, I've kept my mind open to the possibility of a higher power, but even though I'm not a "believer", I still have a very spiritual trip at times. To be honest, ever since I began indulging into psychedelics, I've gone from a hardened atheist scientist to a more "open minded scientist" if you will.
My trips, like you said, are more "meaningful vs. recreational" rather than spiritual. I learn things about myself, including doubts I didn't realize I had. It shows me these things and peels them back, eventually trying to show an inner "core" that is nothing but the existence of who I am, or what I am (a soul if you will).
I discovered meditation far before psychedelics, and I must say the revelations I have on these substances is much the same, except more forced in front of your face, so to speak. Meditation teaches patience (and to some extent, so do psyches) and lets you reveal these things in time. IMO, these substances try to do the same right in the moment. This can be enlightening and beautiful, or frightening if you are not prepared to face such self-doubts and criticism.
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Godfather1376]
#19144565 - 11/16/13 08:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am forever battling between the good in me and the evil in me.
Jesus and Lucifer battle eachother for my loyalty. After 1 trip I might say "fuck jesus, illuminati till I die" then I I could have an experience that has me ready to die for my dude Jesus. So it really is a tricky thing, I believe that whatever tendencies you feed most, will "win", for now. Its a never-ending infinite war and it will not be over until all living life is destroyed. Thus the circle.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Galidor4
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19144796 - 11/16/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think we're all missing a HUGE part of the picture.
Define Spiritual or Spirituality.
I would define it as finding meaning in everything. Spirituality to me is finding meaning in anything and everything.
I'd also like to point out that everyone is saying pretty much the same things, they just either use the word spiritual or not.
Oh, and when you die, what about the energy that surrounds and is emanated by your body? that's some scientific shit, and energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
Edited by Galidor4 (11/16/13 10:40 AM)
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19144813 - 11/16/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Spirtuality=Shamanism=seeing the end=not worrying=emotionally satisfied=Spirituality=Shamanism and so on
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Galidor4
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19144824 - 11/16/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Those are all words tho, except shamanism. and even that can be somewhat experienced by anyone and everyone. it's all just in the words you use.
Earlier I said, I have a hard time not seeing spirituality, but technically, if I see spiritually everywhere, I see it no where, right? Spiritual or Non-spiritual, they're EXACTLY the same, we're not experiencing different Earths or anything preposterous like that.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Godfather1376]
#19144935 - 11/16/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Godfather1376 said:My trips, like you said, are more "meaningful vs. recreational" rather than spiritual. I learn things about myself, including doubts I didn't realize I had. It shows me these things and peels them back, eventually trying to show an inner "core" that is nothing but the existence of who I am, or what I am (a soul if you will).
There's no intention operating here, no trying to reach a core. What you experience is the dissolution of the accreted ego, in all of its self-perserving complexity, nothing more.
If you've meditated much you should know there's no timetable, no agenda, no "purpose" persay. There only is the process. Tripping is no different in that respect, all intention is inferred. Reach the ground of being and questions become meaningless, even the process itself ceases to matter.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (11/16/13 11:39 AM)
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Hygrocybe
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19144943 - 11/16/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Submission and faith aid in finding transcendence. Believers have an advantage there, but they may also hit a wall at the limit of what their beliefs accept. Search for an existence outside yourself which you are a part of, and feel deep connection to, it doesn't have to be a god.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19144971 - 11/16/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Galidor4 said:Oh, and when you die, what about the energy that surrounds and is emanated by your body? that's some scientific shit, and energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
It all goes away. Your spirit goes back to where it came from, and your body goes back to where it came from. Energy only exists in change.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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incubis
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19157197 - 11/18/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Galidor4 said:Oh, and when you die, what about the energy that surrounds and is emanated by your body? that's some scientific shit, and energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
It all goes away. Your spirit goes back to where it came from, and your body goes back to where it came from. Energy only exists in change.
PS
From my limited understanding of some literatures I read so far, your spirit/consciousness goes to the next stage of the journey depends on various karmas/factors. It does not necessary goes back to where it came from. Of course we're all speculating here.
-------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Galidor4
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: incubis]
#19157273 - 11/18/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No one can say what the experience will be. You'll find out when it happens. I believe what PS said to be true. I just know I'll be conscious for it.
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SkeletalSpore
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19157341 - 11/18/13 10:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The people who treat it like "eye candy" get less out of the expereience and in my opinion usually are more likely to have bad trips than a spiritual person. You can probably give anyone a strong dose of DMT and they'll become believers.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: incubis]
#19157766 - 11/19/13 12:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Of course we're all speculating here.
Obviously. Especially the "next stage of the journey" part.
It helps a lot to explain things if you manage to visit the spiritual realms while you're still among the living. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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The Patient


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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19158060 - 11/19/13 02:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was raised Catholic but never understood why the people around me put absolute faith into God and Jesus. As I got older I figured it was all bullshit and I disregarded spirituality and religion completely and at that point in my life I was depressed and didn't see the point in living anymore. After indulging in psychedelics they gave me a much greater perspective of reality and I experienced phenomena many would consider 'spiritual'.I would consider myself a agnostic now because I truly know nothing in the grand scheme of the universe.
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NiNJa420
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: The Patient]
#19158281 - 11/19/13 04:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What is about the night sky lit with bright stars that makes tripping so incredible. I've had some intense trips just stay gazing. Rolling in the sky on Molly. Floating into the universe on Dmt, watching a laserlight show unravel before my eyes on acid and feeling the sky breath on booms. It's always something new to experience
-------------------- I take big tokes just to get higher, I breath smoke and I spit fire!
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zoom_zoom_shroom
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: The Patient]
#19158290 - 11/19/13 04:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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There's so much snide judgement about purely recreational trippers in this thread! Go easy guys 
I'm one of these purely recreational trippers. If anyone finds it relevant I'm an atheist with a Rationalist philosophical viewpoint.
Consider this viewpoint: What if what you call "spirituality" is purely psilocin altering the normal function of neurotransmitters in your brain; it feels good because the experience is novel, which is more than likely why people find they get the most out of their trips with long breaks in between.
Spirituality to be is more than just a bit abstract to me, because it implies mysticism -----> where do you draw the boundary between this mysticism and normal functioning human consciousness, or can they be differentiated at all. It's very ill defined, and completely open to interpretation.
"Getting the most out of your trip", well that a nice buzz sentence and all, but what is your basis of measurement for this? Did the person that sat at home meditating with incense burning get more out of his trip than a person who "tripped ballz man" with a group of roudy mates and had an absolute blast?
Who can honestly say? How can you possibly enter the minds of both people and judge this objectively. I put it to you that you can't. It could be argued that the person who tripped alone meditating with incense burning had a higher chance of bettering themselves as a person via better being able to work through their thoughts in a more therapeutic environment ----> perhaps a more noble endeavour than just getting high with mates? Mabye, but is this your measure for the overall quality of the experience?
Perhaps the recreational tripper enjoyed the experience a lot more than the so-called spiritual/therapeutic tripper? How do you balance out overall enjoyment versus self-improvement versus "spirituality" aspects of a trip in an evaluation of "getting the most out of your trip" and how do you know the degree of interrelation between these 3 variables?
Anyways that's just my two cents on the topic! Apologies for any rambling. Main point is that you shouldn't be getting on your high horse simply by not self-identifying as a recreational tripper.
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sytar
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: zoom_zoom_shroom]
#19158534 - 11/19/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is no different than out sober life. Non-spiritual people do not get much out of anything.
-------------------- I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.
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Adustus
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19159313 - 11/19/13 11:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Galidor4 said: I think we're all missing a HUGE part of the picture.
Define Spiritual or Spirituality.
Spiritual means your connected to your soul. You look within for the meaning of life rather in the sky to some imaginary friend. You believe in your own experience and understand everyone has a different experience. And no matter what they will always be different and that individualism and understanding that all you need is wrapped up in you from birth. That my friends is spirituality. We look for whats beyond this world because we understand that death is not to be feared, and this life not to be wasted in slavery. We know happiness comes from within and harness our soul energy much more heavily through meditation and yoga. Where as others get small amounts(if any) at churches and such.
I'd say its also the difference between a man who will do what his faith commands, and a man who commands his faith.
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Galidor4
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: sytar]
#19159375 - 11/19/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think that's totally pigeon holeing Non-spiritual people. I've met pleanty of non-spiritual perspective people and they're quite happy. They can see that true beauty is Here Now. that's all that matters, whether you're spiritual or not, being Here Now is key. However, I've never met a single spritual person who is less than ecstatic. spiritual or non, they all live their lives similarly, they all have a strong awareness of their circumstances. But spiritual people take hardship almost 180 degrees differently than non-spiritual people. It's not like spirituality doesn't exist, all of these people talking for it aren't crazy or wrong, it's just the perspective they choose to have just as all of the non-spirituality people choose theirs. As for Zoom Zoom, spirituality isn't just felt on drugs. It's felt by millions of sober people every day
I would go as far as to say: just because you don't use the word spirituality( you use a different one) doesn't mean you don't feel what spirituality is, that doesn't mean you're not a spiritual being in a physical realm.
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Galidor4
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Adustus]
#19159378 - 11/19/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Adustus said:
Quote:
Galidor4 said: I think we're all missing a HUGE part of the picture.
Define Spiritual or Spirituality.
Spiritual means your connected to your soul. You look within for the meaning of life rather in the sky to some imaginary friend. You believe in your own experience and understand everyone has a different experience. And no matter what they will always be different and that individualism and understanding that all you need is wrapped up in you from birth. That my friends is spirituality. We look for whats beyond this world because we understand that death is not to be feared, and this life not to be wasted in slavery. We know happiness comes from within and harness our soul energy much more heavily through meditation and yoga. Where as others get small amounts(if any) at churches and such.
I'd say its also the difference between a man who will do what his faith commands, and a man who commands his faith.
Boom! That is an amazing definition! I can dig it.
I wonder, who would consider themselves spiritual based on the above definition?
Edited by Galidor4 (11/19/13 12:15 PM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: zoom_zoom_shroom]
#19159433 - 11/19/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm one of these purely recreational trippers. If anyone finds it relevant I'm an atheist with a Rationalist philosophical viewpoint.
That's because it doesn't make any difference in the end. And that was me as well forever - but now that I've finally penetrated the veil...well, hey, things just never can be the same. It's like you're taken out of the ordinary world, turned around 180, and put back - but now everything is illuminated from within. 
Have a look at this trip report and this one as well. That's just the tip of the iceberg - I find it almost impossible to write about these experiences, but they play a major role in the deep physics research I've been doing for quite a while now. 
PS
Edited by PrimalSoup (11/19/13 12:42 PM)
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Adustus
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19159491 - 11/19/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Galidor4 said:
Quote:
Adustus said:
Quote:
Galidor4 said: I think we're all missing a HUGE part of the picture.
Define Spiritual or Spirituality.
Spiritual means your connected to your soul. You look within for the meaning of life rather in the sky to some imaginary friend. You believe in your own experience and understand everyone has a different experience. And no matter what they will always be different and that individualism and understanding that all you need is wrapped up in you from birth. That my friends is spirituality. We look for whats beyond this world because we understand that death is not to be feared, and this life not to be wasted in slavery. We know happiness comes from within and harness our soul energy much more heavily through meditation and yoga. Where as others get small amounts(if any) at churches and such.
I'd say its also the difference between a man who will do what his faith commands, and a man who commands his faith.
Boom! That is an amazing definition! I can dig it.
I wonder, who would consider themselves spiritual based on the above definition?
I'd say spirituality if anything I guess is being aware that your spiritual then right?
Oh and I kinda use that definition. I don't judge church peoples but as someone who went from church to nothing and from nothing to recreational adventures. And now being such a heavy spiritual person. I'd say Mushrooms, Cacti, and DMT are way more powerful and life changing. Every trip is a lifetime of amazing life changing phenomenon. It goes from "Oh things look kinda trippy" To "IT ALL MAKES SENSE!" Next thing you know your writing a book and on your way to a mountain top to learn how to make fire with only a grain of rice and a turtle shell.
That's my experience anyways. Psychedelics from what I've found scientific/spiritual at best is that the reason we get addicted to opiates and coke and such is because they resonate in our lower chakras. 1 Survival 2 Sex and 3 Ego (willpower control)
Then supposedly theres a half step. like the step on a chromatic scale in music where it changes color on the keys (they both come from the same thing)and eventually spirit will reveal the wall when your ready and you vibrate in your higher chakras. Now from what I've gathered psychedelics trigger your higher chakras like 4 endless love, 5 vibration(seeing/feeling sounds/music), 6 which is the sacred geometry chakra on the surface of the 3rd eye. (this is why some people see everything in geometric patterns) and then finally we hit 7. The spirit chakra (out of body experiences, and see the universe as one) DMT throws you into the last one without choice IMO.
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19181560 - 11/24/13 06:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Godfather1376 said:My trips, like you said, are more "meaningful vs. recreational" rather than spiritual. I learn things about myself, including doubts I didn't realize I had. It shows me these things and peels them back, eventually trying to show an inner "core" that is nothing but the existence of who I am, or what I am (a soul if you will).
There's no intention operating here, no trying to reach a core. What you experience is the dissolution of the accreted ego, in all of its self-perserving complexity, nothing more.
If you've meditated much you should know there's no timetable, no agenda, no "purpose" persay. There only is the process. Tripping is no different in that respect, all intention is inferred. Reach the ground of being and questions become meaningless, even the process itself ceases to matter.
PS
I think you are looking for the word "unfolding" because that's how I see the world anyway....infinite unfoldings in an infinite ball that has already been unfolded, so in a way our future has been determined
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19181568 - 11/24/13 06:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
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I'm one of these purely recreational trippers. If anyone finds it relevant I'm an atheist with a Rationalist philosophical viewpoint.
That's because it doesn't make any difference in the end. And that was me as well forever - but now that I've finally penetrated the veil...well, hey, things just never can be the same. It's like you're taken out of the ordinary world, turned around 180, and put back - but now everything is illuminated from within. 
Have a look at this trip report and this one as well. That's just the tip of the iceberg - I find it almost impossible to write about these experiences, but they play a major role in the deep physics research I've been doing for quite a while now. 
PS
PS i'd be interested in hearing your philosophy regarding tripping as a whole. I feel like i've seen some really good comments by you but never been able to tell what your actual beliefs are. I'm interested to see what we have in common though
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19181571 - 11/24/13 06:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Of course we're all speculating here.
Obviously. Especially the "next stage of the journey" part.
It helps a lot to explain things if you manage to visit the spiritual realms while you're still among the living. 
PS
I think at the moment of death, our energy is going to plunge through your family, your bloodline. When it reaches the otherside, we will be an eternal cosmic ball of light swinging on the racks of hyperspace for all eternity...until of course, our number is called again and we are sent to this hellhole to live out another life according to our karma
And atheist or believer, I think the real God is -electricity-
If you are a believer in energy, you are a believer in God, IMHO
EDIT: And, to label a psychedelic experience as "spiritual" is missing the point. The psychedelic experience is MORE than spiritual, no matter what your reasoning for using it is. We are psychedelic, we just use mushrooms to feel psychedelic. The mushroom is the same thing to everyone, no matter how you use it. Like my dick...its a dick made to make babies. I can fuck a girl or even smack with it, but the MAIN function is to make babies. The MAIN function of mushrooms is FEELING psychedelic, even though we already are
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
Edited by Bill_Oreilly (11/24/13 07:12 AM)
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Into The Woods
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19181672 - 11/24/13 07:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I find that through psychedelics I can wholly appreciate the true magic of reality. That everything and everyone is interconnected by influencing other things or people in some way or another, significantly or infinitesimally, immediately or not but somehow affecting something (e.g. human conciousness - someone, somewhere, saying or doing something that affects someone else and somehow alters the course of their life and potentially the lives of others;
the wonders of nature - from how the earth came to be, it's position in the galaxy enabling it to sustain life to evolution, to the physics and very chemicals that are the building blocks of life.
I quote a brilliant post made by supernovasky, which I read some time ago now and that while it posted in an unrelated thread topic, (or perhaps not ) is relating to what I'm getting at. It's a bit of a long post, but worth the read, if you are really interested.
Quote:
supernovasky said: My thoughts on death are honestly in layers.
The first thought that I have, is that everyone in this world already has experienced what it means NOT to live. For most of our existence in this universe, we have not existed in the form that we are in today. You and I both contain traces of the first biological organisms ever to occupy this earth, their death leading to our fertility. We both come from the dirt and rocks and air itself, pounded into a giant rock we call Earth, and formed from the minerals within it as well as the minerals smashed onto its surface. The elements that make us who we are today were forged in the heart of a massive star that went supernova, sending a light to galaxies and intelligent life-forms billions of light years away, saying "Hey! Heavy elements are here!" We come from hydrogen, which arose from a sea of energy. We all come from the same singularity, we were all one in the same at one point... and every part of you is the same as every part of me in origin.
So it seems silly to feel so much sorrow when the temporary collection of elements that make us up today unravel. Remember that we've unraveled many times before... singularity unraveled into a sea of energy which unraveled into a sea of galaxies which unraveled into a sea of heavy elements which unraveled into a sea of minerals and chemicals which unraveled into... us!
I ask anyone feeling death anxiety or even worried about death anxiety, do you hold a funeral every time you loose a skin cell? Of course not, because the skin cell was just part of the collective of who you are. But you may be shocked to find out that the majority of elements in your body recycle, and the person you are today, physically, is quite different from the person you were when you were born. You've died, lived, and renewed your cells billions of times since "you" first appeared on this earth. We don't perceive this though because we don't see ourselves as the individual skin cells, but instead, we see ourselves as the collective.
I think this is where I part ways from many people in humanity and this is where I have escaped death anxiety. I take that same view and step it a step further. Although my purpose for living the way that I do is not to escape death anxiety, it has been a welcome side effect of my philosophical views on life and death. I do not identify my self as the smallest constituents of what I am... furthermore, I do not identify myself as my body and brain, but rather, as my mind and the collective series of my actions.
When you think about who you are and what makes you, "you," you often list things such as personality traits, a list of facts that you know, a propensity to react certain ways in certain situations, beliefs, values, thoughts. Face it, if we could lose everything else but preserve these things, death anxiety would be nonexistent. However, those things that I have just listed... they are not physical, static conceptions, but instead are actions. When you think a thought, it is not a physical object, but instead is the action of the physical objects in your body. Everything you are and everything you do is a sea of actions, a sea of cause and effect.
However, every action that you ever take is affected by actions that have taken place before you. You may think that you are choosing between one thing and another whenever you are forced to make a choice, but the act of choosing happens when your brain weighs all of the costs and benefits based on all of what you have witnessed and learned in life. Had your life circumstances been different, you would be a completely different person. Actions that originated outside of your own body wholly shape the person you are today and the choices you make today, and the thoughts that you think today and for all of the days to come.
Taken a step further, every action that you produce will cause changes in the life of other people. When you share information with another intelligent person, when you harm or help another person, and above all, when you take part in the creation of a whole other person, you have taken part in the determination of the very being of that other person. No man is an island, and in my own view, every man is a projection of every force and impact on his life for the entire history of his existence.
Taking all of this into account, I want you to once again ask the question... who are you? The way I answer the question is that I am the sea of actions that passes through my physical body, not my physical body itself. Because my actions are caused by every other action in this world and every other action that happens after me is at least ever so slightly affected by me, it seems silly to view myself as my small mind, as just my body, which will die. Instead, I see myself as inseparable from that which has led to me and that which will always emanate from me. The rays of light that bounce off of my body will travel for the rest of time... to someone 100 lightyears away, I am not even born yet. The things I say will travel around humanity, even if only tiny portions of the original intent are left. The waves of molecules that I create by moving and shifting in my seat will reach you, physically, one day. We will share breaths of air, and every so often, you breathe the same atom of oxygen that Socrates breathed so long ago. I think it is pointless to see self as coming from merely our own body and brain. It is dependent on all forcing in this universe, of which our body and brain are but a tiny part.
I always refer to this as being the water, not the locks. Your body is like a lock that all of the water, all of the actions that happen in this universe, pass through... some in tiny, insignificant ways, and others in far more significant ways. The actions that you create will live on far after you die, and the thoughts that you have will inspire the thoughts of others far after you die. I have faith that someone will have read some of what I have said today, and think about it... and in that sense, I live on. However, what I say today is not just me, it is also you, because you are a part of the same sea of actions, the same water, with the same origin. It is also those who have come before me, affecting the very urge that I had to write such a long response to this question of death.
I believe a great deal of the misunderstandings, greed, harm, and pain in this would could be spared by realizing the interconnectedness of all beings. I think a large portion of harm comes from ignorance of self, and from people seeing themselves as the locks, not the water. If people realized that we were all part of the same sea of actions, none independent of any other action, and every action sharing a common origin somewhere deep in history, going all the way back to the big bang, then it would seem pointless and masochistic to inflict suffering on someone else to advance small mind, because once we identify with big mind, there is no NEED to advance small mind.
You want to know who you are? In my opinion, this is who I, you, and everyone else is:

The constant interaction of our thoughts, ideas, and forcings create a collective consciousness. This is not that hard to believe if you look at examples of collective consciousness in our everyday lives. The mind is a form of collective consciousness arising from the brain and its neurons, with individual neurons secreting neurotransmitters, a process that carries information from one neuron to another. Likewise, ants to the same thing by secreting chemicals to one another when they bump into each other. These chemicals facilitate the transfer of information with the collective bits of information creating a "hive mind." The hive mind responds to changes in its environment by direct ants to do certain tasks, and the hive mind creates grand structures, air vents, nesting areas, and living spaces for its constituents.
Human beings are the same thing... but instead of chemicals, we secrete words to one another, creating the collective consciousness of humanity, society, cultures, and governments. Collective consciousness is being harnessed by us every day when we use social media sites, democracy, bittorrent, etc. Wikipedia is a great example of the power of a collective consciousness, where a sea of changes made by normal people creates an encyclopedia that is broader in scope and depth, and nearly as accurate as an encyclopedia written by an intelligent pannel of professors. I believe that galaxies, stars, and fields of cosmic dust do the same thing, secreting gravitational waves, forcing the matter to align itself into the most stable areas of existence, creating order from a sea of chaotic interactions.
Life is strange like that... it operates in a fashion that is against entropy. From a sea of chaotic changes, a road is created, bridges are created, the internet is created... all from the original primordial cosmic soup, all leading to what we experience today. Entropy weighs heavy on our shoulders, yet we still continue to try to fight against it. Who can say what will be more powerful when the universe is dying out... eons and eons of of the organization of intelligence and collective consciousness, or eons and eons of the breakdown and death of the universe...
But I know one this is for sure, I do not consider myself as primarily my individual mind. Rather, I see myself as American before I see myself as me, and I see myself as human before I see myself as American, and I see myself as a child of the universe before I see myself as human... and in that sense, these selves, these big minds will live far longer than my small mind. I am the water, not the locks, and even when my small mind is dead and gone, dying and leaving, I will not be sad, because I know that I will always live on as the sea of actions, regardless of where the current physical conglomeration of my elements ends up.
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Into The Woods]
#19181702 - 11/24/13 08:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Going to smoke some hash and read that, into the woods. Thanks man
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Into The Woods
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19181765 - 11/24/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Most welcome! (:
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Into The Woods]
#19181781 - 11/24/13 08:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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And when you talk about death in layers, man I couldn't agree more. That's what I was trying to convey in my other post when I talk about how at death, we travel through our bloodlines. Its all in layers, everything is unfolding layers which morph into levels just like how at some point water molecules morph into 'wetness'.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19181825 - 11/24/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wow Into The Woods, that was an outstandingly beautiful post. Im going to have to find this member and give him a +5. Oh the potential we'd have if the world could take that into consideration
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allseeingike



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19181894 - 11/24/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im sure its the same fpr both it would depend more on the person as an individual not wether they are spiritual or not. For me it mainly makes me face my demons my fears and motivates me to be a more decent human being and take all I can out of life. You don't need to have any beliefs for that
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: allseeingike]
#19182080 - 11/24/13 10:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Great stuff into the woods..
To anyone experiencing death anxiety, nothing I say will probably convince you, but just KNOW that biology does NOT produce organisms as complex as humans without having some sort of "backup disc" to hold the information in which makes up YOU. You and everything you know is backed-up on a golden flying disc, a hyper-dimensional infinite disc made of god-knows what
that is all
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Into The Woods
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19182109 - 11/24/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What?
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Into The Woods]
#19182121 - 11/24/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im saying, the state of the soul is in the form of a golden disc that exists at the end of time/history. This is what haunts time like a ghost..why scientists quite cant figure it out. Its like the universal joker. This "thing" gets mistaken as an alien spaceship, when its really "the soul that contains everything" or even God.
You never heard McKenna talk about "The hyper-dimensional object at the end of time"?
You cant touch the thing because its so holy. When It visited me, right when I got used to it I slowly went out to touch the thing, and when I was an inch away it slowly hovered away back into the oblivion. If you want to hear the whole report, message me.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19182173 - 11/24/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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um bill... biology is that disc. biology is the template for that information to exist. the only thing storing that information further is the probability of your biological configuration repeating infinitely across existence
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19182198 - 11/24/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I never said it wasn't...I clearly stated that the disc is EVERYTHING ( that's why it can only exist at the end of time)
I like to call it "the human beings anti-Christ"
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Into The Woods
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19182248 - 11/24/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I own a couple of McKenna's books but I haven't gotten around to reading them yet. Coming from McKenna, that doesn't surprise me but I can't tell if you're being serious or not.
This certainly is a new one.
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Into The Woods]
#19182263 - 11/24/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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im being completely serious about 100% of it
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Into The Woods
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19182279 - 11/24/13 11:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Goddamn, Bill. That's some far out shit.
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Into The Woods]
#19182303 - 11/24/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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literally
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19182410 - 11/24/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think you are looking for the word "unfolding" because that's how I see the world anyway....infinite unfoldings in an infinite ball that has already been unfolded, so in a way our future has been determined
I'm not looking for that word. Futures branch off from all parallel presents and contain all possibilities - the branch you follow is your choice. So it kind of looks like it's been determined, but there are infinite determinations to choose from. 
PS
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19182427 - 11/24/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PS i'd be interested in hearing your philosophy regarding tripping as a whole. I feel like i've seen some really good comments by you but never been able to tell what your actual beliefs are. I'm interested to see what we have in common though
Whoa, thanks man. But you never will be able to tell, as part of my process is to reduce beliefs to inconsequential levels, and the same with philosophy. It's more of a recognition of the fundamental emptiness of all things (refer to Śūnyatā if you like) and dwelling in the midst of what is, at root, nonexistent. Although that proves to be a hard thing to do, it leads to profound realization and fits perfectly with what the mushrooms reveal. I don't really know which came first though. 
So there isn't much to talk about there. 
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19182931 - 11/24/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
I think you are looking for the word "unfolding" because that's how I see the world anyway....infinite unfoldings in an infinite ball that has already been unfolded, so in a way our future has been determined
I'm not looking for that word. Futures branch off from all parallel presents and contain all possibilities - the branch you follow is your choice. So it kind of looks like it's been determined, but there are infinite determinations to choose from. 
PS
This is getting into the whole free will thing...did we ever have a choice to begin with?
Or are we talking on the terms of "all roads lead to one path" thee words you string along look pretty, but on which level are you speaking? That's where written language gets tricky
I think we "dug out" our future along time ago as someone would dig through a tunnel. Life is us roaming around the tunnel that we already dug out. Some people have dug further than others, thus allowing them to go further in life.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Tripsurfer
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19182986 - 11/24/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am an atheist, a nihilist and a firm believer in the absolute non-duality of all existence.
That basically means I cant be spiritual in the literal sense of the word.
What does tripping show me?
- My subjectivity in everything - The beauty of the natural world (subjectively) - The power of the mind - Parallel universes (still a bit undecided on that one) - My place as a link in the biological evolution of life - Pretty colors
What does it show my friends who are basically undecided on most things and never question anything?
- Mostly strange visuals and funny/weird feelings
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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JingleJoe
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19182995 - 11/24/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
4Skins said: By "better," I mean, do you think it can help them as a person in the long run such as finding their selves and inner peace and whatnot?
Maybe, I've come to the conclusion that mushrooms clear pre-existing mental fog and give some delusions. I also conclude that some of you won't like my further conclusion; the combination of perspective/ego death and delusion can lead some to believe they have greater understanding about the universe/contact with spirits/magic powers. I'm going to be so popular now 
Quote:
All of my friends and I that trip are non-believers. Does that make our trips any less meaningful?
Meaning is assigned by people.
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Tripsurfer]
#19183042 - 11/24/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tripsurfer said: I am an atheist
- My subjectivity in everything - The beauty of the natural world (subjectively) - The power of the mind - Parallel universes (still a bit undecided on that one) - My place as a link in the biological evolution of life - Pretty colors
Sounds like spirituality to me buddy
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Tripsurfer
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183104 - 11/24/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes it sounds like it but it cant really be if you dont believe in things like spirit and the soul.
For me the mind is an emergent property of the material make-up of the brain. And no matter how deep you go, you will never be able to get out of it. I agree with Huxley's thesis of the mind-valve. Psychedelics/meditation whatever can loosen up the filter. There is a possibility to see things in a more pure, less subjective way. But the subjectivity can never be completely shaken.
But even a world without meaning can be significant and beautiful. But those are attributes I put into it, they are not inherent.
I guess I am all caught up in Kant's transcendental reduction
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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Redpill


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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19183159 - 11/24/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I do not believe in God, but my first trip felt amazingly meaningful to me. It felt like enlightenment at one point to be honest. But it wasn't religious in the slightest. It was very focused on biology and metaphysics, and led me through the evolution of life, the nature of physical existence, and the ideas of good and bad. and I was completely awe-struck. I still do not believe in God, but since that day I have been happier and more satisfied with life than I had been since I was a little kid. It showed me that the world is so beautiful, and that life is the most amazing thing possible.
That's my take on it anyway. Basically, I don't think being spiritual is necessary to have profoundly meaningful trips.
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Tripsurfer]
#19183193 - 11/24/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tripsurfer said: Yes it sounds like it but it cant really be if you dont believe in things like spirit and the soul.
For me the mind is an emergent property of the material make-up of the brain. And no matter how deep you go, you will never be able to get out of it. I agree with Huxley's thesis of the mind-valve. Psychedelics/meditation whatever can loosen up the filter. There is a possibility to see things in a more pure, less subjective way. But the subjectivity can never be completely shaken.
But even a world without meaning can be significant and beautiful. But those are attributes I put into it, they are not inherent.
I guess I am all caught up in Kant's transcendental reduction
I agree. Whatever can be experienced is through the mind. We cannot leave the mind just like an astronaut cannot leave the universe. When we eat mushrooms, we are seeing contents of the mind "scrambled" in a chaotic but orderly fashion.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183205 - 11/24/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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And for someone not to believe in God, to me, is like someone not believing in puberty or something.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183216 - 11/24/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: And for someone not to believe in God, to me, is like someone not believing in puberty or something.
Please elaborate
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19183229 - 11/24/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, I look at it the same way fundamentalists look at drugs. They are afraid of drugs not knowing they are essentially made from drugs. I see it the same way, that we are essentially made of "God" so to not believe in God doesn't make much sense.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183244 - 11/24/13 03:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was reading "DMT:The spirit molecule" the other day for shits and giggles and I remember reading a womans DMT trip where she asked some entity if they were god, and the entity replied "God is in every cell of your body"
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Tripsurfer
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183266 - 11/24/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Do I detect a pantheist?
I think Spinoza made a similar point.
Our thinking is similar in a way (if I may be sol bold.) I believe the universe(s) is(are) real, and that is what constitutes us also. I choose to call it the material world whereas you call it God.
Unless you mean God in the biblical sense, in that case we have no chance of ever understanding each other
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Tripsurfer]
#19183281 - 11/24/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Okay bill i agree with that. I am a pantheist. But as long as we can agree that the term god is ambiguous and that we are not talking about some anthropomorphic body spawning creation. Of course, i have no problem with that belief either, it just wouldn't hold to the statement you made
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19183300 - 11/24/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah, to really know god is impossible. In broad terms, God is "the orderly chaotic energy(or whatever) that allows me to experience reality"..its like god could even be a clam on another planet whos dreaming all this(basically what scientologists believe, which sounds rediculous)
but yeah, were on the same page. But the REAL question I think is "is God a judging thing, or is it just a laid-back fat bitch that lets us do whatever we want" I think the answer is neither...god is what allows us to create our own karma, basically
but when all is said and done, I think god is what we were talking about in the other thread Jackson, that golden disc that seems to travel through dimensions
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
Edited by Bill_Oreilly (11/24/13 04:07 PM)
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183325 - 11/24/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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And youre the second person this week who told me they were a "pantheist"...interesting
I think you just like the name because it sounds like panther, and because Einstein was a pantheist
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
Edited by Bill_Oreilly (11/24/13 04:18 PM)
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Tripsurfer
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183390 - 11/24/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You really believe there is a flying inter-dimensional golden disk that is somehow concerned with/linked to human existence?
I think the Jungian theory of archetypes gives a pretty sweet explanation for all kinds of unusual perceptions whilst tripping.
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Tripsurfer]
#19183396 - 11/24/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tripsurfer said: You really believe there is a flying inter-dimensional golden disk that is somehow concerned with/linked to human existence?
I don't believe it, I know it 
The leap to DMT and the flying disc is equivalent to the leap to CDs/DVDs they work in the exact same way
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Tripsurfer
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183429 - 11/24/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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But it just can't be true. On salvia I saw the goddess at the centre of all universes. She wasn't a golden disk at all, but a blue green being with tentacles coming from her head that controlled the cosmos.
I must try that DMT you speak off...
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Tripsurfer]
#19183467 - 11/24/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well don't think I just took a hit or two and this happened...this was a top 3 experience. It was the one and only time I combined a breakthrough dose(3+ hits) with a dose of mushrooms.
After I exhaled the 3rd hit, It started POURING raining out, huge gusts of wind came out nowhere. I was under the impression "I was making it rain" then I take another hit, the rain picked up even more. Then all of a sudden it stopped on a dime, right at this moment I saw this 'cosmic box' forming on my wall, then all of a sudden BANG the disc popped out of my wall, and the whole trip is now centering around this golden UFO disc that's hovering slowly up to me. Then it stopped just 6 inches away from my face as I sat on my bed with my jaw hanging in amazement. Then after staring at this thing for about 3 solid minutes, I slowly put out my hand to touch it, soon as I was about to touch it, It slowly started hovering away back into the wall.
Never saw it again.
But this is why when people laugh at me for believing in God I just laugh at them, because they do not realize my beliefs are based on first-hand experience. I only believe it if I see it with my own 2 eyes.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183486 - 11/24/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: And youre the second person this week who told me they were a "pantheist"...interesting
I think you just like the name because it sounds like panther, and because Einstein was a pantheist 
haha nope, i'm a pantheist because i once claimed to be an atheist on the DMT nexus until someone proved me wrong He made the assertion that there were very few true "atheists" on the planet then pointed out how i wasn't such.
And to answer your question of whether god is a judging being... God is what the collective conscious determines because the collective conscious is God. God is the manifestation of all individuals. The things that create them and the things they create. So look at the level of God that dictates our lives (society) and tell me whether you think God is a judging being... Currently, very much so
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Tripsurfer
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183501 - 11/24/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I too have seen some weird shit. That doesn't mean its all real, even though it seemed so at the time.
But hey man more power to you
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19183526 - 11/24/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: And youre the second person this week who told me they were a "pantheist"...interesting
I think you just like the name because it sounds like panther, and because Einstein was a pantheist 
haha nope, i'm a pantheist because i once claimed to be an atheist on the DMT nexus until someone proved me wrong He made the assertion that there were very few true "atheists" on the planet then pointed out how i wasn't such.
And to answer your question of whether god is a judging being... God is what the collective conscious determines because the collective conscious is God. God is the manifestation of all individuals. The things that create them and the things they create. So look at the level of God that dictates our lives (society) and tell me whether you think God is a judging being... Currently, very much so 
Lol, I was just kidding.
And that's real cool that you can admit being an atheist was rather foolish. Atheism has no place next to "Truth".
But what is the collective conscious? So you are basically saying the human being is God? That, is crossing the line, in my humble opinion.
tripsurfer...at the time the experience was more real than anything I have ever experienced so im more comfortable believing that one experience over anything else that's happened in my life.
IVing 4-aco was pretty crazy too...but that was more like dying. I traveled through my family at warp speed in a matrix like barcoded computer reality...this DMT experience was different, it was centered purely on the craft.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly] 1
#19183578 - 11/24/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Somewhat. I'm saying the totality of existence is inseparable from the concept of god. It is the entity in which all power, knowledge, and creation is contained. Man was not created by god, but rather manifests from god itself. So all that energy that creates us is essentially god. But we are not made by that, we are made from that. And therefor man is an inseparable part of god. As is a tree, and the sun, and the solar system, etc. All manifest from that same matrix so to speak.
So when you ask if god is judgemental... It depends what you're looking at. If you want to look at the majority of the universe, then hell no. Shit gets destroyed and created all the time by random chance. But if you look at the collective conscience of humans (society) which is somewhat of another dimension of the god experience then that is very judgmental. But the essence of "god" is experiential as a whole, not defined.
And as for atheists being foolish... I could say the same about a majority of theists. What's foolish is not recognizing the higher order of existence. But i don't think atheism is any more foolish than dogmatic religion. Both of them deny the possibility of spiritual qualities to the material realm. I never view spirituality as something separate from nature. To me they are one and the same
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19183699 - 11/24/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So since the idea of god was created in the bubble of eternity, god becomes one with the whole thing...meaning everything is everything, more or less.
I believe what I saw that day, is god. It fits everything of your description and what pantheism is. Pantheism basically states that everything is part of the whole, which is exactly what im saying about the disc. The disc is what you get when time itself collapses on itself, aka death. Maybe death is just the process of us evolving into the craft. Then at death we are free to roam the universe in our little vehicles 
And I agree, atheism is just as foolish as any dogma
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183744 - 11/24/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pantheism sees that the whole is indistinguishable from the concept of god. So god did not become one with the whole thing, the whole thing is all there every was and all there ever will be and is synonymous with the concept of god
So yeah, i think we're on the same page if i'm reading you right. At least for the first part. Not sure how i feel about the disc thing, or roaming the universe. Yeah our particles scatter for eternity, but there is little known on what exactly creates consciousness.
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19183769 - 11/24/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's what im saying, that(according to McKenna and now myself) the disc is actually casting a shadow outward which is the source of..everything. Its a far-out concept but when it makes sense, it just makes sense 
its this disc that connects us to other realms. Now, what this thing is and where it comes from is still very much in question don't get me wrong.
For all I know its just a built-in hallucination to represent the highest-form of DMT-space, but it does "exist".
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19183780 - 11/24/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe in having sex while on mushrooms because it is fucking awesome
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Hammburgler]
#19183793 - 11/24/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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that's good too
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19184127 - 11/24/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is getting into the whole free will thing...did we ever have a choice to begin with?
All semantic distinctions like that are meaningless, inasmuch as they all stem from and express duality. (Unless you really dig philosophy - in which case they become your personal prison. )
Your description of the "golden disc" is what a hyperdimensional object would look like, BTW. 
In the past I've traveled back to the beginning of life through endless chains of ancestors once - but this happened while totally straight, with a chaser of schizophrenia, so although it was profound beyond belief, I can't trust it was real. 
Other "impossible" things happened in external reality at that time - and inexplicable things of similar nature have happened often during trips. For some of them I've had witnesses, for others I've had external corroboration. None of this requires belief of any kind in anything. It only requires the experience itself. 
PS
Edited by PrimalSoup (11/24/13 07:31 PM)
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GreySatyr
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19184185 - 11/24/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think I already stated this but I'm pantheist, pagan pride.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19185539 - 11/25/13 06:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
This is getting into the whole free will thing...did we ever have a choice to begin with?
All semantic distinctions like that are meaningless, inasmuch as they all stem from and express duality. (Unless you really dig philosophy - in which case they become your personal prison. )
Your description of the "golden disc" is what a hyperdimensional object would look like, BTW. 
In the past I've traveled back to the beginning of life through endless chains of ancestors once - but this happened while totally straight, with a chaser of schizophrenia, so although it was profound beyond belief, I can't trust it was real. 
Other "impossible" things happened in external reality at that time - and inexplicable things of similar nature have happened often during trips. For some of them I've had witnesses, for others I've had external corroboration. None of this requires belief of any kind in anything. It only requires the experience itself. 
PS
Couldn't agree more! Im really curious as how you can say that a hyperdimensional object would look like what I described. Im really fascinated by this, because I know how "real" it was. A reason why im convinced of its authenticity is because the whole trip revolved around the 'object' or 'the thing'...its not like there was swirly colors around this thing or anything...the whole experience was JUST that flying golden disc made of solid light or energy..what seemed to happen was that I got so damn high that I forced reality to collapse in on itself and was shown the universes naked body.
This thing was alive...it was just observing me like I would observe an alien upon seeing it for the first time, but always knowing it was there. It was perfectly constructed. I could even sense a sense of humor from it. I had the overwhelming feeling I was in communion with God itself.
you so smart primal soup...
And when you talk about travelling through your ancestors, I understand what you mean. iv 4-aco was very much like that, it as if I died and was launched through my bloodline at digital warp-speed. My body turned into what it really is, -informational output buzzing in complete synchronicity with the space around it-
theres much more to it but that's the jist...smoked DMT is more mystical as IV 4aco was extremely "digital". Its as if with DMT, im travelling to future states where 4-aco-dmt is ancient states.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
Edited by Bill_Oreilly (11/25/13 07:21 AM)
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19185685 - 11/25/13 07:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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And just for the hell of it...the hyperdimensional object resembled a craft, but this craft has no edge to it. And you couldn't look directly at it for some reason. Its almost as if its constructed to depict what exactly infinity looks like. And its so sacred it wont even let you touch it...I probably would of turned into a pillar of salt like in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Absent Minded



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19185803 - 11/25/13 08:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think, to a degree, only going into a trip with spiritual intent can be a big let down to a person. I've always been interested in the spiritual side of psychs - and as I've said on here countless time, I've only ever taken L. Many of times. That b eing said, when I first started, after graduating high school, I was younger, dumber, and a bit more intent on having these "spiritual" experiences on psychs. I thought those that took them just for fun were wasting them (without ever having done them before, hahahah). But as I was saying, thinking that way can be a let down - first few trips I had, I went into with the mindset of "I'd very much like to learn something from this - here are a few things I want to think about on this - here are some things I'd like to resolve in my life etc etc etc" And quite frankly, I never had any 'revelations' or deep thoughts. It wasn't till after I gave up that approach, and now trip for fun, the nature of the experience, and just to get away from it al for a while, I've really started getting some of what others might consider 'revelations' or 'life lessons' when I trip.
tl;dr? Don't set yourself up strictly focusing on the spiritual aspects of a psych. There is an entire world of experience capable on these substances, and you're only limiting yourself by setting strict guidelines on how you 'think' the trip should go or what you expect to get out of it. go into it with a clean slate, a positive mindset, expecting nothing, and really see what these substances can offer you.
--------------------
Beats More Beats sheekle: fuck peace love and unity sheekle: death despair and misery sheekle: is where it's at
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Absent Minded]
#19185909 - 11/25/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Those are very important points you bring up, absent. The idea is, to not go into it wanting ANYTHING. That's how Ive got to where I am, anyways. I always consumed these drugs with pure curiosity and respect. When I started tripping, I wasn't aware of any of these modern day shamans such as McKenna or hancock, I didn't know anything, so I didn't expect anything. I ate the mushroom with NO expectation, and that's the key to understanding the experience, and when you understand, you have revelations.
It seems like if you go into it wanting spirituality, it will teach you how to loosen up. If you go into it only seeking fun, it will show you its not that and its made to be respected. If you go into it wanting NOTHING, essentially you get EVERYTHING. It always seems to give us what we need and deserve.
It seems like nature is building upon previously constructed models. So the more you trip, the more connections you open up. But its up to you to MAKE those connections. In other words, no matter what, the drugs will not do all the work for you.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
Edited by Bill_Oreilly (11/25/13 12:07 PM)
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Absent Minded



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19186039 - 11/25/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well put Mr. O'Reilly, I have to say, you've come a long way for a Fox newscaster.
--------------------
Beats More Beats sheekle: fuck peace love and unity sheekle: death despair and misery sheekle: is where it's at
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Absent Minded]
#19186140 - 11/25/13 09:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was not always a fox newscaster, but ive always been an arrogant attention whore
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19186169 - 11/25/13 10:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Think of the Asians eyes compared to the others...the eye is more 'slanted' because its actually a higher-constructed model. Their eyes are more "refined" than the rest. This is also how nature works, the more complex, the smaller and complex things get. Same goes for the Chinese language.
But its important to point out that theres always MORE. Everything can always get smaller and more refined. Its a never-ending process that's building, and the more time that passes, the more time that keeps on slipping into the future thus the more models we can build upon thus the more complex we get. Whats it all leading too? Well, that's where my hyper-dimensional object comes into play. That's what I think the end of history is.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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KingKnowledge
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19186188 - 11/25/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: Think of the Asians eyes compared to the others...the eye is more 'slanted' because its actually a higher-constructed model. Their eyes are more "refined" than the rest. This is also how nature works, the more complex, the smaller and complex things get. Same goes for the Chinese language.
Don't asians lose sight at an earlier age than Americans?
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: KingKnowledge]
#19186191 - 11/25/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Stars that shine twice as bright only burn for half as long
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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MindDrips
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19186264 - 11/25/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe in the Penguin King, and I talk to him every time I trip. I am his faithful servant and will carry out his frosty demands.
You're all wrong and the Penguin King will smite you ALL!
-------------------- "Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind, Seem to get lost and harder to find. When I am alone I am inclined, If I find a pebble in sand, To think that it fell from my hand..."

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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: MindDrips]
#19186274 - 11/25/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Very funny MindDrips everyone else get your jokes in now or forever hold your judgment. the smart ones on here know whatsup...literally
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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MindDrips
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19186350 - 11/25/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: Very funny MindDrips everyone else get your jokes in now or forever hold your judgment. the smart ones on here know whatsup...literally
What's "up"... ahaha I get it.
Nice sig by the way Bill, that joke always got a giggle out of me.
In relation to the actual thread though, I suppose I would consider myself a "spiritual tripper". I tend to get a lot out of my trips, but even then, some spent with other friends are often more recreational. I don't think I've ever had an experience by myself that wasn't spiritual, though. I'm not really sure what I'm arguing here... I should get some breakfast in me before I start typing. lol
-------------------- "Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind, Seem to get lost and harder to find. When I am alone I am inclined, If I find a pebble in sand, To think that it fell from my hand..."

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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: MindDrips]
#19186384 - 11/25/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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why thank you. your sig isn't so shabby itself..you know once a Buddhist monk was asked what was it that he really learned over the course of his life, and he replied "that worrying is ridiculous" so I resonate with the quote, good stuff
Edit: u changed it?!?! why!? grr
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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MindDrips
Telephasic Workshop



Registered: 09/10/13
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19186407 - 11/25/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
why thank you. your sig isn't so shabby itself..you know once a Buddhist monk was asked what was it that he really learned over the course of his life, and he replied "that worrying is ridiculous" so I resonate with the quote, good stuff
Edit: u changed it?!?! why!? grr
Strange timing, sorry sir!
I've been meaning to put that in my sig for a while, after my boyfriend and I tripped I had to put that down. I think seeing your sig reminded me to change mine 
I'm not taking away Louis Wain's cats though! Never!!
Edit: I agree with that monk, there really is no use in worrying! It just makes things worse.
-------------------- "Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind, Seem to get lost and harder to find. When I am alone I am inclined, If I find a pebble in sand, To think that it fell from my hand..."

Edited by MindDrips (11/25/13 11:03 AM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19186837 - 11/25/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Couldn't agree more! Im really curious as how you can say that a hyperdimensional object would look like what I described.
I open my mouth...
Well, it's just mathematics of higher dimensional objects. If you've ever read Flatland there's a good explanation of what a 3D object looks like passing through a 2D universe in there. The higher dimensional object can work all kinds of miracles from the point of view of the lower dimensional existence. For us a higher dimensional object or lifeform or entity would have similar miraculous powers. Mushrooms (and I expect psychedelics in general, though my experience is almost completely with mushrooms) provide access to some of these spaces of greater dimensionality. The entities we meet there indeed appear miraculous, and their manifstations in our reality are spectacular when they occur. 
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19186877 - 11/25/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
I open my mouth...
Well, it's just mathematics of higher dimensional objects. If you've ever read Flatland there's a good explanation of what a 3D object looks like passing through a 2D universe in there. The higher dimensional object can work all kinds of miracles from the point of view of the lower dimensional existence. For us a higher dimensional object or lifeform or entity would have similar miraculous powers. Mushrooms (and I expect psychedelics in general, though my experience is almost completely with mushrooms) provide access to some of these spaces of greater dimensionality. The entities we meet there indeed appear miraculous, and their manifstations in our reality are spectacular when they occur. 
PS
Flatland is awesome! I love how it describes higher dimensional objects in relation to lower dimensional ones. It was also referenced in Michio Kaku's Hyperspace, which is also a fantastic read about higher dimensions and hyperspace capabilities!
I think the Flatland principles have really inspired the way I integrate my psychedelic experiences.
-------------------- "Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind, Seem to get lost and harder to find. When I am alone I am inclined, If I find a pebble in sand, To think that it fell from my hand..."

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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19186943 - 11/25/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Couldn't agree more! Im really curious as how you can say that a hyperdimensional object would look like what I described.
I open my mouth...
Well, it's just mathematics of higher dimensional objects. If you've ever read Flatland there's a good explanation of what a 3D object looks like passing through a 2D universe in there. The higher dimensional object can work all kinds of miracles from the point of view of the lower dimensional existence. For us a higher dimensional object or lifeform or entity would have similar miraculous powers. Mushrooms (and I expect psychedelics in general, though my experience is almost completely with mushrooms) provide access to some of these spaces of greater dimensionality. The entities we meet there indeed appear miraculous, and their manifstations in our reality are spectacular when they occur. 
PS
Hey buttmunch, when I said I couldn't agree more, I was referring to you saying "In the past I've traveled back to the beginning of life through endless chains of ancestors once - but this happened while totally straight, with a chaser of schizophrenia, so although it was profound beyond belief, I can't trust it was real. "
I should of separated my 2 sentences,
thanks for the reply though
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19187051 - 11/25/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whatever.
PS
Edited by PrimalSoup (11/25/13 02:17 PM)
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tylerr
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19187097 - 11/25/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I like to take drugs to fuck me up and make my times crazier and for the kick ass visuals. Not sure how so many people find drugs to "enlighten" and "better" their life but..if they do.. GREAT FOR THEM AND ENJOY
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: tylerr]
#19187237 - 11/25/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Look, im primal soup. When someone wants to know my opinion on something, I laugh at them because im so smug and know everything
reminds me of myself, keep it up sir
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19187249 - 11/25/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ah. Don't get hung up on the details. We're all incarnations of essential divinity, hyperdimensional aspects of the universe itself. Most days that's all it takes. 
PS
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19187292 - 11/25/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, I just get frustrated and sort of in distress when I think about all the good people that will never know the power of these tools. This is probably the main source of any flaws in my character.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19187715 - 11/25/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Character flaws? We don't need no stinkin' character flaws!
I recommend these substances to everybody who will listen - which is never all that many. I got used to the eyes-glazing-over reaction as they think to themselves "Oh yeah, like that chick I knew in high school who fried her brain" and they never ever realize that it's all just a step away from where they are, if you do it right. 
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Bill_Oreilly
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19188116 - 11/25/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Character flaws? We don't need no stinkin' character flaws!
I recommend these substances to everybody who will listen - which is never all that many. I got used to the eyes-glazing-over reaction as they think to themselves "Oh yeah, like that chick I knew in high school who fried her brain" and they never ever realize that it's all just a step away from where they are, if you do it right. 
PS
im perplexed when I think if I should recommend these drugs or if I should keep my mouth shut and leave it to the worthy. No matter how many 'logical' users tell me to calm down and to give up trying to get the world to trip, I just cant. For some reason deep down I believe 1 man can truly change the world. Is it possible? Guess only time will tell
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Absent Minded



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19188259 - 11/25/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Poppin in to say I approve of the shift this conversation has made on this last page.
--------------------
Beats More Beats sheekle: fuck peace love and unity sheekle: death despair and misery sheekle: is where it's at
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Kief Ledger
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19188909 - 11/25/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Character flaws? We don't need no stinkin' character flaws!
I recommend these substances to everybody who will listen - which is never all that many. I got used to the eyes-glazing-over reaction as they think to themselves "Oh yeah, like that chick I knew in high school who fried her brain" and they never ever realize that it's all just a step away from where they are, if you do it right. 
PS
im perplexed when I think if I should recommend these drugs or if I should keep my mouth shut and leave it to the worthy. No matter how many 'logical' users tell me to calm down and to give up trying to get the world to trip, I just cant. For some reason deep down I believe 1 man can truly change the world. Is it possible? Guess only time will tell 
I feel the exact same way. I feel its is my moral duty to preach these substance to anyone who will listen, despite the likely judgment and discrimination most often received. But then part of me also feels like the people who are supposed to find these amazing tools will. But what if that's is supposed to be through me?
I really do feel like if even the majority of the world could have just one psychedelic experience it would be a much better place for it. But the burden for attempting the spread of the psychedelic experience is great. Not only does one accept most likely alienation from the vast majority of society, but possible incarceration. And sadly the propaganda surrounding these substances is so great that many people are turned off to the point that even mentioning mushrooms or LSD have people they think you are junkie! So your left with the dilemma of keeping the greatest secret of the universe all to yourself or sharing it with the world.
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Eywa_devotee
Goddess Worshiper


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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Kief Ledger]
#19189072 - 11/25/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Drugs can help you find out that YOU are not god, but to find God while on drugs not so much. Understanding the meaning of the fear of God while on drugs is definitely doable though...
-------------------- "Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.
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MindDrips
Telephasic Workshop



Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 677
Loc: USA
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Absent Minded]
#19189809 - 11/25/13 11:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Absent Minded said: Poppin in to say I approve of the shift this conversation has made on this last page.

 Fuck yeah, existence is awesome. So much to talk about, even talking about talking.
-------------------- "Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind, Seem to get lost and harder to find. When I am alone I am inclined, If I find a pebble in sand, To think that it fell from my hand..."

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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: MindDrips]
#19190628 - 11/26/13 06:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Long live the word!!!!!
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Absent Minded



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Kief Ledger]
#19190727 - 11/26/13 07:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kief Ledger said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Character flaws? We don't need no stinkin' character flaws!
I recommend these substances to everybody who will listen - which is never all that many. I got used to the eyes-glazing-over reaction as they think to themselves "Oh yeah, like that chick I knew in high school who fried her brain" and they never ever realize that it's all just a step away from where they are, if you do it right. 
PS
im perplexed when I think if I should recommend these drugs or if I should keep my mouth shut and leave it to the worthy. No matter how many 'logical' users tell me to calm down and to give up trying to get the world to trip, I just cant. For some reason deep down I believe 1 man can truly change the world. Is it possible? Guess only time will tell 
I feel the exact same way. I feel its is my moral duty to preach these substance to anyone who will listen, despite the likely judgment and discrimination most often received. But then part of me also feels like the people who are supposed to find these amazing tools will. But what if that's is supposed to be through me?
I really do feel like if even the majority of the world could have just one psychedelic experience it would be a much better place for it. But the burden for attempting the spread of the psychedelic experience is great. Not only does one accept most likely alienation from the vast majority of society, but possible incarceration. And sadly the propaganda surrounding these substances is so great that many people are turned off to the point that even mentioning mushrooms or LSD have people they think you are junkie! So your left with the dilemma of keeping the greatest secret of the universe all to yourself or sharing it with the world.
Interesting point - honestly, I was interested in drugs and psychedelics especially long, long before I had ever drank or even smoked some herb. I was talking about mushrooms to my friends in 7th grade, considered growing them at that age (LOL) and even had a shroomery account then to ask some admittedly, VERY dumb questions. But, that was YEARS ago. ans glad I forgot that password, cause I was really asking some dumbbbbbb questions hahaha. anyway, point is, people have ways of finding out about the stuff without someone telling them.
--------------------
Beats More Beats sheekle: fuck peace love and unity sheekle: death despair and misery sheekle: is where it's at
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Absent Minded]
#19191092 - 11/26/13 09:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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they may know where too look but do they know what to look for?? people around here are close to falling into insanity because they were raised 2 think all drugs are bad...i feel like im honestly their only hope
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Jesus Cristo
High on Drugs



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19191409 - 11/26/13 11:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i would never "preach" it to anyone straight unless they asked me about them or mocked me for using them. friends and people that are already a bit out of the box though I like to tell, especially if they already smoke weed.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Jesus Cristo]
#19191836 - 11/26/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The way I look at it, this life is my only opportunity to express the truth so im going to be a walking billboard for mushrooms/DMT. Im going to lay out the details, preach the techniques, and speak directly. Ill leave it up to the world to decide what they want to do with me.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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MindDrips
Telephasic Workshop



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19191894 - 11/26/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: The way I look at it, this life is my only opportunity to express the truth so im going to be a walking billboard for mushrooms/DMT. Im going to lay out the details, preach the techniques, and speak directly. Ill leave it up to the world to decide what they want to do with me.
Power to ya, Bill!!
Although I think psychedelics are not for everybody, I think many people could benefit from the use of these tools. I have already shown many of my friends the real truth, and one of them actually decided to trip with me. (That was probably one of the most beautiful trips I've ever had, by the way. She took that eighth of cubes like a champ) Human society needs to be reset! Turn the tables of traditional thought!
-------------------- "Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind, Seem to get lost and harder to find. When I am alone I am inclined, If I find a pebble in sand, To think that it fell from my hand..."

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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: MindDrips]
#19192376 - 11/26/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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And let me just add, that im going to do these things as I SEE IT. and as I see it, isn't always right. im far from all-knowing and its staggering the rate in which im learning each day
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Galidor4
Beholder



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19201575 - 11/28/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you live in America, technically we're protected by the 1st amendment. I'm waiting on a call from my uncle, who's a lawyer. I wanna talk to him about creating a bona fide religious group(he's not going to be able to help me directly, but he'll send me in the right direction). That's how you tell people about these without the fear of incarceration. But We have to do it together. One person, alone can only change themselves. People, together, can change the world.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
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Loc: Boston
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19202622 - 11/28/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You hit the nail on the pinhead, my friend.
bill
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Namelessbob
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19203641 - 11/29/13 05:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you don't express yourself in the most friendly and casual way possible, people will turn away from what you have to say. If you don't present yourself in a credible manner (and by credible I mean CALMLY, casually, and in a way that doesn't even hint at an attempt to convince) then you do the cause more harm than good. This is why I believe partisanship in US politics is so prevelant nowadays. It's so easy to accidentally turn someone away from what you say. It's delicate.
That said, I'm always happy to speak my mind. Just because you take something as widely known knowledge doesn't mean it actually is, so even the most basic ideas need to be mentioned or else people won't grow and society won't either. Gain their trust in your opinion, then start to delve into issues that they may be skeptical of. It's at that point I bring up my experience with mushrooms. I tell it casually, like I'm telling a story of something that happened to me one time. The story should convince them without them knowing I'm trying to convince them.
To the original question (I just skipped a bunch of pages but I'm sure it's been discussed to death by now), as an atheist from birth I found shrooms to be absolutely mind expanding. I saw the world almost as God would see it. I came to understand God. To know thatjust about everyone is capable of the same emotions as you, to feel everything so real, to know that an all knowing God knows all the love every mother feels for their children, to know all the pain everyone causes everyone and everything else, to know all of this made me understand how God loves all his children. It made me understand how shrooms and psychedelics make people spiritual. I thought I knew before then, but until I tried shrooms I never fully felt and understood spirituality.
It made me think that it's a pity there is no god to have that ultimate perspective. I still believed that belief sets generally came from anchient people who didn't have science to begin to explain the world around them. But, for the first time, I understood spirituality a little bit more.
Atheists have just as much perspective to gain from shrooms as religious people, though honestly both groups can learn the same lessons. Everything you do is real. Everything you do, from talking trash to someone's face, to talking trash behind their back, to blocking faster traffic from passing you when they want to drive faster than you, is all very real to someone else just as much as it is to you. When you are rude, you are only being rude to your own reputation. God or no gods, bad deeds are just as bad either way. Truth is truth, and that's just my two cents.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Namelessbob]
#19204634 - 11/29/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
It made me think that it's a pity there is no god to have that ultimate perspective. I still believed that belief sets generally came from anchient people who didn't have science to begin to explain the world around them. But, for the first time, I understood spirituality a little bit more.
This is a limited viewpoint, but dualistic thought always is - "no god to have that perspective" - the seer and the seen are not seperated, they don't actually exist as separate things. Do you really think there is no more to reality than what our ordinary senses perceive?
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19204711 - 11/29/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
It made me think that it's a pity there is no god to have that ultimate perspective. I still believed that belief sets generally came from anchient people who didn't have science to begin to explain the world around them. But, for the first time, I understood spirituality a little bit more.
This is a limited viewpoint, but dualistic thought always is - "no god to have that perspective" - the seer and the seen are not seperated, they don't actually exist as separate things. Do you really think there is no more to reality than what our ordinary senses perceive?
PS
God cannot be God all the time. DONT FORGET THAT.
bill
edit: -things break down- <----- like cars
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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hmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19205085 - 11/29/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
It made me think that it's a pity there is no god to have that ultimate perspective. I still believed that belief sets generally came from anchient people who didn't have science to begin to explain the world around them. But, for the first time, I understood spirituality a little bit more.
This is a limited viewpoint, but dualistic thought always is - "no god to have that perspective" - the seer and the seen are not seperated, they don't actually exist as separate things. Do you really think there is no more to reality than what our ordinary senses perceive?
PS
God cannot be God all the time. DONT FORGET THAT.
bill
edit: -things break down- <----- like cars
A reasonable person can reject theistic views of reality while believing that there is far more to reality than meets the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind, and so on. That there is more to life than I am or even can be aware of is self-evident to me, but I do not hold any theistic views of reality (e.g. I don't believe in God as conceived by any religion).
I think when comparing spiritual vs non-spiritual trippers it's important to reject any assumption that atheists are non-spiritual trippers.
What makes a tripper spiritual?
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themusicofzann
Meta-Ubermensch



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: hmmn]
#19205126 - 11/29/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe in nothing. i question everything.
--------------------
    The above is hypothetical, when it is illegal. Psychedelics are performance enhancers for the philosopher. Knowledge and wisdom are one and the same.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: themusicofzann]
#19205616 - 11/29/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
themusicofzann said: I believe in nothing. i question everything.
I question nothing.
bill
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: hmmn]
#19205703 - 11/29/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
A reasonable person can reject theistic views of reality while believing that there is far more to reality than meets the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind, and so on. That there is more to life than I am or even can be aware of is self-evident to me, but I do not hold any theistic views of reality (e.g. I don't believe in God as conceived by any religion).
I think when comparing spiritual vs non-spiritual trippers it's important to reject any assumption that atheists are non-spiritual trippers.
on both
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Hygrocybe
Walkin Wonderland



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19208195 - 11/30/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Galidor4 said: If you live in America, technically we're protected by the 1st amendment. I'm waiting on a call from my uncle, who's a lawyer. I wanna talk to him about creating a bona fide religious group(he's not going to be able to help me directly, but he'll send me in the right direction). That's how you tell people about these without the fear of incarceration. But We have to do it together. One person, alone can only change themselves. People, together, can change the world.
League For Spiritual Discovery
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treid2
Mr.


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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19209189 - 11/30/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
4Skins said: The "letting go" thing....
That's a big one.....
That is definitely a big one.
--------------------
"Now, gods, stand up for bastards!" — King Lear Act 1, scene 2. Damion5050's Coir Tek PF Tek
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Galidor4
Beholder



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: treid2]
#19209268 - 11/30/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Letting go doesn't mean giving up
I totally agree, family members are hardest for me.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19209365 - 11/30/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I find it impossible to let go completely. Even when im in the heart-of-hearts I still fear death
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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thephilosofist
???...!!!



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19209939 - 11/30/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have issues with basing anything existential in my life on faith. Perhaps that will change, as I am relatively young. Seeing hyperdimensional objects, and meeting incarnations of god and/or plato's world of forms, and/or thought feedback loops interpreted as characters defined by personality and behavioral traits have send me through chaotic paradigm shifts until I just sort of floated inbetween them all. These were off numerous high dosages of different combinations of ethneogens (and other substances).
I had to forcefully rebuild myself, and I have chosen the path of the scientific method to understand the world around me. I don't think it is limiting, and I personally am under the impression that we have the capability to comprehend the structure of the universe, concepts of life and death, and other religious and faith-based issues that have arrested humanity's attention.
I still can't ever know, and I would rather simply take the trips with a grain of salt than take them literally. I will say that trips increase my aesthetic sense and appreciation of patterns in the world around me. It allows me to see how everything relates, how geometry is inherently similar in EVERYTHING (DMT hyperspace object = mind's 'storage bank' of visual information?). I don't see this as being spiritual in my definition, but I saw the definition earlier in the thread regarding spirituality as "seeing meaning in everything", so according to that I suppose that my trips are indeed spiritual...
Is pattern recognition spiritual? Not for me, I choose to believe it is a part of my mental abilities and relish in the drug's ability to enhance it.
Even while under the impression of feeling the awe-inspiring visions of The Source, OBE's, and hyperspace/the astral plane, I personally interpret these as mental representations of how the mind works. The cynical side of me sees Shamanism as a very practical and effective manner of exploring one's psyche. The side of me that has broken through obviously must suspend logic and rationality in order to retain any real memory of the experience itself...and that is why I have a hard time putting faith in it. However, I can't deny what I felt. The duality is confusing at times, lol.
I have hope that we can locate the source of the mind, and understand just how this universe is pieced together. I do not believe we will ever completely solve the mystery. I have to admit there is a karmic balance of knowledge acquisition...the more answers we have, the more immensely befuddling our world becomes...and I like that.
Our mental faculties are more powerful than we can comprehend at the moment...IMHO...and I personally intend to explore both subjective and objective experience, tying the two together. I believe it is partially because of my trips that I now have an insatiable thirst for knowledge. Am I getting less out of it, if I want to scientifically interpret what I see and feel under intense psychological amplification?
TL;DR: Simply speaking for myself: I'm happier with my trips (and the aftermath) now that I just let it go and see what I see, but I take them with a grain of salt.
Edited by thephilosofist (11/30/13 08:40 PM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: thephilosofist]
#19210579 - 11/30/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The cynical side of me sees Shamanism as a very practical and effective manner of exploring one's psyche.
Well, if true that would be unfortunate, as exploring one's psyche doesn't take all that much compared to what, IME, shamanism can accomplish (in the real world). But it's one of those things impossible to explain to those who don't already know about it.
Quote:
I have hope that we can locate the source of the mind, and understand just how this universe is pieced together. I do not believe we will ever completely solve the mystery. I have to admit there is a karmic balance of knowledge acquisition...the more answers we have, the more immensely befuddling our world becomes...and I like that.
Likely you can do all that for yourself. But there's no inherent mystery, and there are no "answers". This stuff (the stuff of what we are made) will show itself to you gradually. At least it has for me. Duality ends eventually. 
Final point though, I don't know who this "we" you keep talking about is supposed to be. Your own experience is more than sufficient for whatever you need to do.
PS
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MadMind
Psychonaut



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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
#19211166 - 12/01/13 03:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
4Skins said: Question for anyone willing to answer:
Do you think people who are religious/spiritual/believers in something will have a "better" trip. As opposed to a non-believer/non spiritual.
By "better," I mean, do you think it can help them as a person in the long run such as finding their selves and inner peace and whatnot?
All of my friends and I that trip are non-believers. Does that make our trips any less meaningful?
Good question, a great one infact. In my opinion, people who don't believe are less susceptible to bad trips, but they are also unable to experience the great peaceful part of it as well. It's more of a drug to get fucked up on to them. Spirit route is much better in my opinion and you are more likely to gain something out of it.
Also I would like to inform that just because someone is non-religious doesn't mean they are not spiritual. Hidden in the crowd are some believers
-------------------- to be determined...
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Into The Woods
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: MadMind]
#19211283 - 12/01/13 05:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wouldn't say that every non-believer who partakes in the psychedelic experience does so just to take drugs and get fucked up.
Some folk just appreciate the beauty of nature for what it is as we know it from a scientific standpoint, rather than what it might be.
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Into The Woods
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Into The Woods]
#19211288 - 12/01/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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And It doesn't mean that either is wrong. The only thing that feels wrong is the people who DO take psychedelics for granted, just to get fucked up.
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thephilosofist
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19211587 - 12/01/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Likely you can do all that for yourself. But there's no inherent mystery, and there are no "answers". This stuff (the stuff of what we are made) will show itself to you gradually. At least it has for me. Duality ends eventually. 
Final point though, I don't know who this "we" you keep talking about is supposed to be. Your own experience is more than sufficient for whatever you need to do.
PS
I would argue that hallucinations, according to evidence I have now, all stem from one's own mind. Meaning that everything I hallucinate either IS my mind, or a product of it. That definitely makes me a materialist, and I fully admit my bias in that sense. It doesn't make it 'not real' to me. I just can't see it as anything other than my own instincts and internal human wisdom giving me knowledge. Any dieties I have seen, the gnostic God that presented itself to me on LSD (seemed very real, just like my DMT experiences)...It's not 'separate from me", I don't believe it is an "other" although I may interpret it as such. I fully admit this is stemming from my own belief system I have built up. Thus I find it the psychedelic experience to be a deeper exploration of the 'psyche' than simple meditation a few hours a day (although I believe with years of meditation you could reach DMT-esque states). The psyche to me covers all the human unconscious behaviors, subconscious behaviors, and essentially reconstructing the M.C Escher palace that is the chamber of the mind. That includes basic knowledge of existence, and basic concepts of self-awareness.
As for your second point, I agree, I will simply speak for myself. I seek answers that I can empirically verify, or replicate experimentally. Replicating DMT experiences and showing how different individuals share experiences is only a starting point for what I am looking for, IMHO.
The inherent mystery for me is understanding the structure of the universe, deciphering the building blocks. I would eventually like to understand the basis of the universe enough to the point that we could become Creators in our own right.
I choose to apply myself to learning knowledge that provides me with external, physical use (technology, etc.) rather than shaping my emotional/intuitive mind at this point, although I am always evolving and growing. I recall specifically when the creator of Onnit technologies came onto Joe Rogan's podcast and discussed how his ayahuasca experience gave him a peek into his psyche and he came out much more successfully business-wise. That's really what I'm looking for in my trips...not that business is necessarily a be-all-end-all goal. To combine successful ventures (creative or otherwise) with furthered health and happiness in the aftermath of a psychedelic trip is what I'm looking for. I think that empirically verified knowledge integrated with psychological amplification is much more potent for creating 'ideas that change the world' than revelations by Alan Watts or Terence McKenna (francis and crick, in particular --> was not a spiritual revelation).
That being said, if you are happy listening to Alan Watts and understanding the deep existential patterns that exist ("the earth 'peoples'! just as flowers pollenate and humans have babies -- excellent speech on systemic complexity from a more philosophical/entertaining rather than scientific aspect), then more power to you. I don't see this as 'woo' or anything, I just don't find it to further my own personal goals in life. I am happy with my place in the universe, whether we are divine beings that were created with intent or simply a cosmic fluke.
I do not wish to ATTACK spirituality. I simply disregard the word in my own life, this post is a claim that a materialist's (formerly very spiritual/religious -- due to psychs) trip is equally as valid of a psychedelic experience as someone who explores religious themes through their trips.
Edited by thephilosofist (12/01/13 12:09 PM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: thephilosofist]
#19212456 - 12/01/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well yes, hallucinations - just like dreams - stem from your own mind. But there's far more to the experience than hallucinations. 
Quote:
The inherent mystery for me is understanding the structure of the universe, deciphering the building blocks. I would eventually like to understand the basis of the universe enough to the point that we could become Creators in our own right.
Science has far more application to all of this than you appear to realize. How do you propose to do this? And once again, who is this "we" of which you speak? Everybody? Anybody? Somebody?
Quote:
Thus I find it the psychedelic experience to be a deeper exploration of the 'psyche' than simple meditation a few hours a day (although I believe with years of meditation you could reach DMT-esque states).
So called "simple meditation" goes far deeper than you apparently realize. You can't possibly project what it accomplishes from within the discursive mind. 
I am interested in replication of trip effects, so I'd ask you to expound on that. Strictly from a nonspiritual POV of course.
PS
Edited by PrimalSoup (12/01/13 01:01 PM)
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MadMind
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: thephilosofist]
#19212498 - 12/01/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
thephilosofist said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Likely you can do all that for yourself. But there's no inherent mystery, and there are no "answers". This stuff (the stuff of what we are made) will show itself to you gradually. At least it has for me. Duality ends eventually. 
Final point though, I don't know who this "we" you keep talking about is supposed to be. Your own experience is more than sufficient for whatever you need to do.
PS
I would argue that hallucinations, according to evidence I have now, all stem from one's own mind. Meaning that everything I hallucinate either IS my mind, or a product of it. That definitely makes me a materialist, and I fully admit my bias in that sense. It doesn't make it 'not real' to me. I just can't see it as anything other than my own instincts and internal human wisdom giving me knowledge. Any dieties I have seen, the gnostic God that presented itself to me on LSD (seemed very real, just like my DMT experiences)...It's not 'separate from me", I don't believe it is an "other" although I may interpret it as such. I fully admit this is stemming from my own belief system I have built up. Thus I find it the psychedelic experience to be a deeper exploration of the 'psyche' than simple meditation a few hours a day (although I believe with years of meditation you could reach DMT-esque states). The psyche to me covers all the human unconscious behaviors, subconscious behaviors, and essentially reconstructing the M.C Escher palace that is the chamber of the mind. That includes basic knowledge of existence, and basic concepts of self-awareness.
As for your second point, I agree, I will simply speak for myself. I seek answers that I can empirically verify, or replicate experimentally. Replicating DMT experiences and showing how different individuals share experiences is only a starting point for what I am looking for, IMHO.
The inherent mystery for me is understanding the structure of the universe, deciphering the building blocks. I would eventually like to understand the basis of the universe enough to the point that we could become Creators in our own right.
I choose to apply myself to learning knowledge that provides me with external, physical use (technology, etc.) rather than shaping my emotional/intuitive mind at this point, although I am always evolving and growing. I recall specifically when the creator of Onnit technologies came onto Joe Rogan's podcast and discussed how his ayahuasca experience gave him a peek into his psyche and he came out much more successfully business-wise. That's really what I'm looking for in my trips...not that business is necessarily a be-all-end-all goal. To combine successful ventures (creative or otherwise) with furthered health and happiness in the aftermath of a psychedelic trip is what I'm looking for. I think that empirically verified knowledge integrated with psychological amplification is much more potent for creating 'ideas that change the world' than revelations by Alan Watts or Terence McKenna (francis and crick, in particular --> was not a spiritual revelation).
That being said, if you are happy listening to Alan Watts and understanding the deep existential patterns that exist ("the earth 'peoples'! just as flowers pollenate and humans have babies -- excellent speech on systemic complexity from a more philosophical/entertaining rather than scientific aspect), then more power to you. I don't see this as 'woo' or anything, I just don't find it to further my own personal goals in life. I am happy with my place in the universe, whether we are divine beings that were created with intent or simply a cosmic fluke.
I do not wish to ATTACK spirituality. I simply disregard the word in my own life, this post is a claim that a materialist's (formerly very spiritual/religious -- due to psychs) trip is equally as valid of a psychedelic experience as someone who explores religious themes through their trips.
That's interesting the way you put it. I would like to say that these drugs do causes hallucinations that are not necessarily related to spirituality. The goal of these drugs is for you to in fact search your own mind to find the spirituality within yourself. So lets say you see a deity, that doesn't mean that it's actually there but that shows you something about yourself and can help you further understand why you think a certain way. Everything is subjective anyway.. I don't think it's right to generalize people let alone drugs in which trips vary so greatly.
Here I'll give an example: One time I was on like 8g of shrooms and I was seeing demons and I got scared. I noticed a recurring theme though, is that I always looked in their eyes which scared me the most. I brought that information back with me into the real world and applied it. I figured out why I can't look at peoples faces when I talk to them stemmed from an issue I had as a child where I saw demons in a movie/etc. and I got scared when I looked into their eyes. Now as a whole I am more social and easygoing on the soul.
One would interpret a demon as a 'bad mojo' or something such as that, but I used it as a tool to figure out myself more thoroughly.
-------------------- to be determined...
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: MadMind]
#19212555 - 12/01/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Here I'll give an example: One time I was on like 8g of shrooms and I was seeing demons and I got scared. I noticed a recurring theme though, is that I always looked in their eyes which scared me the most. I brought that information back with me into the real world and applied it. I figured out why I can't look at peoples faces when I talk to them stemmed from an issue I had as a child where I saw demons in a movie/etc. and I got scared when I looked into their eyes. Now as a whole I am more social and easygoing on the soul.
Shrooms are extremely useful for autobiographical recall like that, followed by integration. I've dredged some of the most amazing stuff from my past - all the way to early childhood - and with awareness comes the ability to put your internal demons to rest. 
PS
--------------------
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thephilosofist
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19212752 - 12/01/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Well yes, hallucinations - just like dreams - stem from your own mind. But there's far more to the experience than hallucinations. 
Quote:
The inherent mystery for me is understanding the structure of the universe, deciphering the building blocks. I would eventually like to understand the basis of the universe enough to the point that we could become Creators in our own right.
Science has far more application to all of this than you appear to realize. How do you propose to do this? And once again, who is this "we" of which you speak? Everybody? Anybody? Somebody?
Quote:
Thus I find it the psychedelic experience to be a deeper exploration of the 'psyche' than simple meditation a few hours a day (although I believe with years of meditation you could reach DMT-esque states).
So called "simple meditation" goes far deeper than you apparently realize. You can't possibly project what it accomplishes from within the discursive mind. 
I am interested in replication of trip effects, so I'd ask you to expound on that. Strictly from a nonspiritual POV of course.
PS
lol alright alright, I was specifically trying to say "I" for everything but I guess you caught me on one of them. the intent is still there though, I do wish to only speak for myself and my psychedelic goals.
I agree the experience is much more than the hallucinations. Which is why I post on these forums, I've learned about fractal geometry (really my inspiration for learning about systems and how they interact with each other, the parts = the whole, etc.) and my own inner peace, as well as the mind's capacity to generate entire dimensions or explanations for the universe on it's own. Whether or not the explanations are true or not, I find the fact that they happen to be utterly amazing. I find that the only feeling that really lingers from the trips, though, are the inner peace (or inner destruction) and the notion that the world is bigger than I can ever know in my lifetime.
Clearly, I don't understand how to create a universe from scratch. I'm a young 20 something with only basic knowledge in physics and chemistry. I am currently studying sustainable development and biomimicry, specifically integrating these into electrical and possibly electrochemical systems. I do wish to acquire and build upon empirically verified information though, such as the basic formation of particles. I mean, chemistry and physics in themselves are trying to figure this out. It is the basis of all science to explore the world around us and figure out how it works, this organic system we have found ourselves in (I use WE because WE are all breathing the same air, we are all living on the Earth). WIth the internet, and all published studies at my disposal, I would like to form a community of individuals with similar experiences who understand truly how great the mystery is, indulging in scientific exploration, as well as improving their body and mind through insight and experience.
I believe the DMT replication has already been tested, with Straussman's "evidence." People all claimed to have very similar experiences, although I don't believe his test was truly valid (a non-consistent and biased group of participants). I don't think, however, that the effects on the visual field are well understood, despite them being consistent between chemicals.
I think another study could be done, especially with brain scanning technology being more developed and neuroscience taking a massive renaissance-esque leap the last 20 years.
What makes these chemicals psychedelic? How do they affect the brain? What part of the brain is it stimulating? What visions/feelings are produced from that part of the brain being stimulated? Is it even the brain at all? Specifically: Why and how are these chemicals related to feelings of intense revelation and inner peace/turmoil?
In order to go on this path, I require people who don't care about the philosophy behind psychedelics. Peace, understand, and appreciation, are byproducts of psychedelics that are subjectively beneficial. I would like to figure out ways that psychedelics can be OBJECTIVELY beneficial. Which is why I bring up Francis and Crick and their discovery: it was aided by LSD, but the real meat of the discovery was formed by their years of education and experimentation.
Does this help clarify myself a bit?
I refuse to call spirituality invalid, but I simply don't use it. Inner peace is not spiritual for me. It is simply the understanding and awareness of where I am and what I am doing, as well as the understanding that I am both an individual and a product of an active process. I am both a noun and a verb.
If you call that spiritual, I guess we just differ on terminology. I associate spirituality with faith-based thinking, and I do not wish to delve into that manner of thinking.
Edited by thephilosofist (12/01/13 02:26 PM)
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Galidor4
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: thephilosofist]
#19213569 - 12/01/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So I think the reason PS keeps pointing out you saying We, might be because the information you're talking about knowing, is already know. Yes, science proves it to a certain empirical degree but they're not discovering it for the first time, it's always been known and only YOU can clue yourself in on what's going on. Just because it's know by me doesn't mean it's know by We, ya know?
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thephilosofist
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19213977 - 12/01/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Galidor4 said:Yes, science proves it to a certain empirical degree but they're not discovering it for the first time
I think we fundamentally disagree on what a 'discovery' is. I believe (<-- faith based, /facepalm) instinct and intuition only go so far. Maybe I'll be proven wrong though. I try to keep an open mind to these sorts of things, especially theories about inherited knowledge through generations of evolution and breeding. In fact, I'm going to go look up some studies on instinct right now. Very interesting topic.
I simply wished to present my perspective, if you don't agree, that's OK...we both have our own paths....
Edited by thephilosofist (12/01/13 06:32 PM)
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Jesus Cristo
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: thephilosofist]
#19214134 - 12/01/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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shit i have 666 posts. here's 667 :phew:
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: thephilosofist]
#19214565 - 12/01/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I refuse to call spirituality invalid, but I simply don't use it. Inner peace is not spiritual for me. It is simply the understanding and awareness of where I am and what I am doing, as well as the understanding that I am both an individual and a product of an active process. I am both a noun and a verb.
If you call that spiritual, I guess we just differ on terminology. I associate spirituality with faith-based thinking, and I do not wish to delve into that manner of thinking.
I don't understand where you're coming from with this. I don't call anything spiritual, all I said was that's a label that some people apply to certain experiences. It doesn't matter what you call it. The OP was the one who asked about differences between "spiritual" and "recreational" (supposedly non-spiritual) users and whether there experiences differ. Early on I said this:
Quote:
Do you think people who are religious/spiritual/believers in something will have a "better" trip. As opposed to a non-believer/non spiritual.
No. Absolutely not. A full face melting trip overcomes any belief system no matter how poorly formed, and substitutes a brand new experiential religious framework. Which you then have to figure out. 
Quote:
Of course people going into the psychedelic experience with a spiritual approach will get more out of the experience than people using psyches with a recreational approach.
Be careful what you wish for.
Quote:
I believe the DMT replication has already been tested, with Straussman's "evidence." People all claimed to have very similar experiences, although I don't believe his test was truly valid (a non-consistent and biased group of participants). I don't think, however, that the effects on the visual field are well understood, despite them being consistent between chemicals.
Oh, no offense, I don't think I made myself clear. I'm not talking about replicating the drug effects on the visual field. Anybody who trips a lot can do that. I'm talking about replicating the drug effects on reality, a much more interesting subject, which I've been posting about here as often as I can figure out something useful to say. 
PS
Edited by PrimalSoup (12/01/13 08:28 PM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
#19214615 - 12/01/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Galidor4 said: So I think the reason PS keeps pointing out you saying We, might be because the information you're talking about knowing, is already know. Yes, science proves it to a certain empirical degree but they're not discovering it for the first time, it's always been known and only YOU can clue yourself in on what's going on. Just because it's know by me doesn't mean it's know by We, ya know?
Yeah, and I sure don't want that sketchy guy who lives down the street to become a "Creator in his own right" when I'm not watching. That would totally suck. I want this knowledge to stay with those who figure it out, those are the only ones I even remotely trust to handle shit properly. The rest can stay where they've always been. 
PS
Edited by PrimalSoup (12/01/13 09:58 PM)
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MindDrips
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Jesus Cristo]
#19214704 - 12/01/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Jesus Cristo said: shit i have 666 posts. here's 667 :phew:
Uh oh...
You are dooooomed
-------------------- "Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind, Seem to get lost and harder to find. When I am alone I am inclined, If I find a pebble in sand, To think that it fell from my hand..."

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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: thephilosofist]
#19214931 - 12/01/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Clearly, I don't understand how to create a universe from scratch. I'm a young 20 something with only basic knowledge in physics and chemistry. I am currently studying sustainable development and biomimicry, specifically integrating these into electrical and possibly electrochemical systems. I do wish to acquire and build upon empirically verified information though, such as the basic formation of particles. I mean, chemistry and physics in themselves are trying to figure this out. It is the basis of all science to explore the world around us and figure out how it works, this organic system we have found ourselves in (I use WE because WE are all breathing the same air, we are all living on the Earth). WIth the internet, and all published studies at my disposal, I would like to form a community of individuals with similar experiences who understand truly how great the mystery is, indulging in scientific exploration, as well as improving their body and mind through insight and experience.
Hey, more power to ya then.
You can indeed appreciate the "mystery" as you call it (as a matter of fact you can penetrate the "mystery" directly, and I highly recommend it) without resorting to hackneyed religious arguments and limitations. But at some point what you end up doing is creating an experiential "religion" that depends on no assumptions or beliefs. You'll find some aspects of that process scattered online at forums like this. I'm planning to share my experimental research into such matters (at least the physical manifestations of that research) eventually, and I hope to be able to construct tabletop devices that respond to trip manipulation much like the natural world does. I expect they'll function as quantum computers.
Rest assured that these matters ARE of great interest to at least a few people currently.
And that's about all for now.
PS
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lemintus
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19215067 - 12/01/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I go back and forth from atheism and paganism. Frustrating to be semi-spiritual and not believe at the same time.
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thephilosofist
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19217961 - 12/02/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Hey, more power to ya then.
You can indeed appreciate the "mystery" as you call it (as a matter of fact you can penetrate the "mystery" directly, and I highly recommend it)
PS
Can you explain what you mean by 'penetrating the mystery'? I've had several experiences on DMT ranging from 50-130 mg, with several different intentions (or none at all): either talking to the entities (they give me vague descriptions of what I should be doing, why I am here, chaos vs structure, how love is the metaphorical basis of every chemical and physical bond that make up reality, etc...typical psychedelic manifestations, just more vivid), exploring the realm visually (VERY interesting, stories and people appear in front of me, beings of light almost like shining constellations interacting, as well as 'multidimensional' objects) and seeing if I could move through it, or ignoring the entities and attempting to maintain rational thought throughout the experience (harder to do, but manageable). I began to recognize these entities as representations of myself or reactions to my motivations/intents after the fifth trip or so.
My next grand psychedelic adventure will be ayahuasca or peyote, I hope I can gain more insight from these experiences.
This is one of the reasons I wish my friends in chemistry to surpass Shulgin, although I like him more than any of the psychedelic culture figureheads because he simply explained the experiences as how he perceived them, along with chemical explanations, rather than as Absolute Truth.
I believe synchronicity and the 'natural world reacting to you' to be simply delusions, but I fully admit I could be wrong. It is another disbelief of mine I try to shake, because I very much wish the mind to have more power than I believe. Specifically, I don't believe in ESP and the ability for the mind to affect things through the air without direct physical contact. if that's what you are talking about.
I've interacted with plants and animals (including humans) differently on psychedelics...but I don't think that necessarily means that nature is any different after taking psychedelics due to your direct observance of it, I believe it is your mindstate and ability to notice patterns you wouldn't normally be able to. This causes you to act differently than you would while sober, which thus produces uncommon stimuli, which in turn causes recipient of stimuli to react uncommonly as well. For example, when I take acid, women are more attracted to me because of my openness and general 'glowing' ambience. It's not as if LSD is directly causing the radiation of 'fuck me' pheremones from my armpits (or maybe it is, but that's a separate point), it's my change in behavior based on the reaction that causes other individuals to react differently. Or, for a more direct' mind affecting world' idea, my direct thoughts of 'fuck me girl' are not making her want to fuck me any more than she would normally. Meaning it is a secondary reaction, not a primary reaction by nature...I think I may have entirely missed your point now that I think about it, lol. Correct me if I'm wrong...or leave it be lol we've been going on a while now.
I would be VERY VERY interested to hear your research or see something to guide my own thoughts. My mind is open to being changed. And perhaps it may, after a few more years of substance use (or perhaps sobriety, whatever is healthiest for me).
Edited by thephilosofist (12/02/13 04:35 PM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: thephilosofist]
#19218118 - 12/02/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I mean you only think it's a mystery. Once you see all the way into it it's no longer a mystery. No faith required, no belief, only the desire to go there and see it first hand, as it were, from the inside.
No, I can't tell you how to do that. If I could tell you how to do that it wouldn't be a mystery. 
I've no experience with DMT but based on numerous comments from people who do, although it manifests weirdness in spades, it may be too short-lived to actually get much of a handle on what happens. When I looked at the Nexus I was surprised to see how almost every single trip-modality that was described was something I'd already encountered over the course of about a thousand mushroom trips. So I can't say yes, can't say no, but to study some of this IME you need to create stable environments for tripping over the course of several hours.
I have strong evidence of anomalous physics occurring during around and within trips. Other people have shared similar occurrences. Synchronicity, for instance, is not a delusion, it's definitely real. (Or if it's a delusion, somehow it manages to affect completely sober people in the company of people who are tripping. My reading of the odds for that indicate that the effects are quite real, even if inexplicable.) It's very common to deny these things. I did that myself for many years, even as I was actively searching for more of the kinds of things I'd already experienced occasionally. One wants very badly to be wrong about this, as it tears a huge rift in ordinary understanding. Unfortunately - or fortunately, depending - the phenomena are all too real, and not capable of being dismissed. It becomes knowledge that you just have to live with after a while. 
Unfortunately, it takes more physics to explain than most people ever want to acquire. My most fruitful discussions about some of the effects I've logged so far have taken place with fellow physicists... 
Einstein didn't much like the spooky "action at a distance" that his equations supported either. There's a definite generational thing in physics. Current theories are coming much closer to realities that I've seen. Some of those theories are my own theories as well. For a starter, read through this fairly accessible explication of emergent intelligence: It's speculation, but I encountered the reality first and was already developing math to explain it when that popped up. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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thephilosofist
???...!!!



Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 83
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19218155 - 12/02/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: I have strong evidence of anomalous physics occurring during around and within trips. Other people have shared similar occurrences. Synchronicity, for instance, is not a delusion, it's definitely real. (Or if it's a delusion, somehow it manages to affect completely sober people in the company of people who are tripping. My reading of the odds for that indicate that the effects are quite real, even if inexplicable.) It's very common to deny these things. I did that myself for many years, even as I was actively searching for more of the kinds of things I'd already experienced occasionally. One wants very badly to be wrong about this, as it tears a huge rift in ordinary understanding. Unfortunately - or fortunately, depending - the phenomena are all too real, and not capable of being dismissed. It becomes knowledge that you just have to live with after a while. 
PS
I will take a read through the articles. I too have experienced synchronicity so intense...take my cynicism with a grain of salt: it is definitely a protective mechanism for me to dismiss anything strange in the mind as bullshit and/or coincidence. Thank you for bearing with me
Edited by thephilosofist (12/02/13 09:39 PM)
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Adustus
Multiple Personalities




Registered: 11/14/13
Posts: 521
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19225766 - 12/04/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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PrimalSoup said:
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It made me think that it's a pity there is no god to have that ultimate perspective. I still believed that belief sets generally came from anchient people who didn't have science to begin to explain the world around them. But, for the first time, I understood spirituality a little bit more.
This is a limited viewpoint, but dualistic thought always is - "no god to have that perspective" - the seer and the seen are not seperated, they don't actually exist as separate things. Do you really think there is no more to reality than what our ordinary senses perceive?
PS
This guy
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maddad
Stranger
Registered: 11/20/13
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Adustus]
#19225784 - 12/04/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Some people believe in astrology. Others believe in technology. Some people believe in all those "ologies". But I believe in swordfish.
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: maddad]
#19226466 - 12/04/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm more of a Pastafarian. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger

Registered: 03/13/11
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19226515 - 12/04/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: I'm more of a Pastafarian. 
PS
I want some of what this guys having
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi


Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 6,220
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 hours, 42 minutes
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19226518 - 12/04/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just 2 days ago I was going into my first trip thinking of seeing stuff breathe, better colors etc prepared to be "tripped" out.
Soon realized tripping wasn't about seeing cool visuals at all. For me it was 90% feeling. After being a complete 180 of what I thought it was going to be, there's no other reason for me to not be spiritual about tripping ever again.
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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