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OfflineTombc1
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: HarryL]
    #19135909 - 11/14/13 11:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

HarryL said:
Am native American and a scientist

So... I can understand the belief systems that pervade the human experience. The belief in 'there is something else', whether that is a Christian god, Greek gods, native amarican heros and spirits, ghosts, magic, UFOs or whatever one wants to put their faith in. Even mushroom gods!

I can also understand te need to have rational answers that can be tested and reproduced.

Are we still naked apes, huddled together in caves, scared of the night and making up stories to sooth our fears? Or is there more to life than physics and chemistry?

Suppose each has to find their own answer. Can a Non-believer have a meaningful psychedelic experience, sure... Absolutely. There is enough amazing real things, planets and stars and trees... Why add mythology?

Will someone with spiritual beliefs looking for answers have a more meaningful experience than some kid who just wants escape and doesn't look for answers... Sure.

But is really a pretty complicated issue. I am also sure that someone who starts one journey, often ends up someplace they did not know they were going and are glad for that...mushrooms will do that...

Peace




That last statement is me. I first took mushrooms as a dumb kid looking to see some cool colours and shit; now I am a full fledged spiritualist hippy ;p


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19136424 - 11/14/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

Do you think people who are religious/spiritual/believers in something will have a "better" trip. As opposed to a non-believer/non spiritual.




No.  Absolutely not.  A full face melting trip overcomes any belief system no matter how poorly formed, and substitutes a brand new experiential religious framework.  Which you then have to figure out. :lol:

Quote:

Of course people going into the psychedelic experience with a spiritual approach will get more out of the experience than people using psyches with a recreational approach.




Be careful what you wish for.

:peace:PS




I agree with primal soup. The difference between a non spiritual tripper and a spiritual tripper is the dose


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OfflineGalidor4
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19136492 - 11/14/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This is a very interesting topic OP. Personally, I can't imagine a single aspect of Existence that isn't "spiritual", it's just whether you know it or not. I think what that means is best explained by the Einstein quote "either everything is a miracle or nothing is". The whole of Existence comes down to basic physics. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed, E=MC^3. Something(whatever that may be) has to happen after you die. It's physically impossible for nothing to happen. The fact that any one of us is existing the way we are is statistically improbable, and there are billions of us! it's all a miracle.
But I digress, We all experience the same Existence, you aren't (unable to grasp reality) crazy, so that means that whatever you're experiencing is real and that makes it valid, in it's own way.
Before, you chop wood and carry water. After, you chop wood and carry water. Spiritual, non-spiritual, it's all the same.


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Offlinemy3rdeye
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
    #19136781 - 11/14/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't believe in God yet he keeps showing up in my trips. I find it impossible to keep the spiritual out of my trips. It's always been my opinion that if everyone dropped there would be a boom in all kinds of spirituality.


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OfflineCliftonGK1
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
    #19136797 - 11/14/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know that any one person can say that any other person will have a better or worse experience based on something as esoteric as spirituality or religious inclinations.  I can only give my own experience.

As a collegiate I fell out from my religious upbringing, studied all different religion and spiritual philosophies, and then decades later found my way back to my original faith with a renewed strength and understanding which only comes from questioning your faith in the first place.
Some years later, I was in what was certainly the wrong mindset to take anything psychoactive, much less the amount (albeit small to most people, it was a lot for me) of mushrooms that I did.  Introspection, depression, and religion are a bad combination for a trip; and over the course of the next couple hours I came to a distinct realization of evil in the world; and that it isn't some extrinsic force which acts upon any of us, but that it resides in us; and whether you call it spirituality, religion, ethics, or morals, there is a very thin barrier keeping it at bay.
I scared myself that day, and I haven't since ventured that far into my own brain again.  Maybe some day I will.  Maybe not.  For me, it may be best not to go digging for answers I don't want to know.


--------------------


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Galidor4]
    #19136832 - 11/14/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Something(whatever that may be) has to happen after you die.




Yes, you rot.  That's physical. :shrug:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineGreySatyr
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #19138166 - 11/14/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You become part of the earth, that's spiritual.


--------------------
...also, go to hell, huh?


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: my3rdeye]
    #19138219 - 11/14/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GreyMorph said:
You become part of the earth, that's spiritual.




Yeah, just goes to show that you can take a spiritual approach to anything. it bothers me when people think it's black and white.



Quote:

my3rdeye said:
I don't believe in God yet he keeps showing up in my trips. I find it impossible to keep the spiritual out of my trips. It's always been my opinion that if everyone dropped there would be a boom in all kinds of spirituality.




Maybe you shouldn't try to keep it out then, and just find ways to mold it to what you know. For example, god in my trips is "the all". The universe as a whole and how all of it's parts together function as a larger body the way all the cells in my own body do. To me, that totality is synonymous with "god", but it doesn't really change my "beliefs" only my perspective on the things i know. Gives it a sense of beauty and mystery that it used to not have.


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19138280 - 11/14/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

We all believe in something.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
    #19138724 - 11/14/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have found the quality of my trips has increased exponentially since I've been meditating on a regular basis. The funny thing though is that the frequency has reduced as well.

It's hard sometimes for me to know where to draw the line between spiritual and non spiritual. Is having an amazing time bonding with other human beings just as spiritual as sitting silently on a cushion burning incense?


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineZippyHippyinWA
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19138771 - 11/14/13 10:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I am a non-believer. I use shrooms completely recreationally. And after all the pretty lights are gone, after I have seen all those things in my mind that I cannot see sober, after the tears(yes there are usually tears), fears, and unfathomable understandings, when I have finally left my own mind, I am left a believer......in myself.


--------------------
“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.”
― Terence McKenna


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Offlineincubis
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19139064 - 11/14/13 11:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:

It's hard sometimes for me to know where to draw the line between spiritual and non spiritual. Is having an amazing time bonding with other human beings just as spiritual as sitting silently on a cushion burning incense?




I guess it all depends on what are the types human beings that you're bonding with.  It could be immersely spiritual or absolutely waste of time.


--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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Offline4Skins
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: CliftonGK1]
    #19139111 - 11/14/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You said that so incredibly well. I know exactly what you mean. The evil IS real, but in a different way than I thought before I had tripped and came to this mindset.

It's all so...haunting


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: incubis]
    #19139836 - 11/15/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

incubis said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:

It's hard sometimes for me to know where to draw the line between spiritual and non spiritual. Is having an amazing time bonding with other human beings just as spiritual as sitting silently on a cushion burning incense?




I guess it all depends on what are the types human beings that you're bonding with.  It could be immersely spiritual or absolutely waste of time.



I do my best to not pass judgement on the quality of other human beings


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlinesanchothestoner
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19140147 - 11/15/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's kind of like comparing the League for Spiritual Discovery and the Merry Pranksters.  No matter your view, if your headspace is good you can get something out of the trip.  I started off as a Merry Prankster type, then got I got quite spiritual with it, but I still consider myself a prankster.  The experience relies on the person, and the experience doesn't care if you're spiritual or not.  Some people will view the experience as spiritual, and some won't.


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19140160 - 11/15/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Atleast what he has tried so far is alot like me....

I think a trippspirit(amine) may do like me and argument for what you think is wrong just to prowe you wrong and show you that you do not know a thing just for the fun of it..

Everything is relative and thus everything is correct in its own way, being wrong at the same time... When you know enough you may argue against someone less knowing that what they think is wrong, convince them, make them agree and then argue against that ...

I think perception is up to the individual and thus spiritual or not the expereance will vary.. or maybe one is correct and people do not know how to define spirituality?


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19140692 - 11/15/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Quote:

incubis said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:

It's hard sometimes for me to know where to draw the line between spiritual and non spiritual. Is having an amazing time bonding with other human beings just as spiritual as sitting silently on a cushion burning incense?




I guess it all depends on what are the types human beings that you're bonding with.  It could be immersely spiritual or absolutely waste of time.



I do my best to not pass judgement on the quality of other human beings




All such distinctions are arbitrary.

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineShroomPaul
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: ZippyHippyinWA]
    #19141679 - 11/15/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ZippyHippyinWA said:
I am a non-believer. I use shrooms completely recreationally. And after all the pretty lights are gone, after I have seen all those things in my mind that I cannot see sober, after the tears(yes there are usually tears), fears, and unfathomable understandings, when I have finally left my own mind, I am left a believer......in myself.




A very valid point.

Having been brought up in the Scottish Roman Catholic education system I took the only logical path 10 years ago and became an atheist.

It frustrates me that religious or "spiritual" people feel entitled to pass snide judgement on the faithless and claim the moral high-ground when my (lack of) belief has taken more thought and deliberation to form than that of most practising religious types that I know.

I'd be more comfortable if the delineation between trip types was meaningful vs recreational rather than spiritual vs non-spiritual.

When I trip I'm more interested in what I can learn by looking inwardly and challenging my own perceptions and beliefs than trying to find a higher meaning to our existence. I wonder how many spiritual types would have the courage to do the same...

My trips are every bit as enlightening as those of believers. You just couldn't call them "spiritual".


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OfflineZippyHippyinWA
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: ShroomPaul]
    #19141826 - 11/15/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomPaul said:
Quote:

ZippyHippyinWA said:
I am a non-believer. I use shrooms completely recreationally. And after all the pretty lights are gone, after I have seen all those things in my mind that I cannot see sober, after the tears(yes there are usually tears), fears, and unfathomable understandings, when I have finally left my own mind, I am left a believer......in myself.




A very valid point.

Having been brought up in the Scottish Roman Catholic education system I took the only logical path 10 years ago and became an atheist.

It frustrates me that religious or "spiritual" people feel entitled to pass snide judgement on the faithless and claim the moral high-ground when my (lack of) belief has taken more thought and deliberation to form than that of most practising religious types that I know.

I'd be more comfortable if the delineation between trip types was meaningful vs recreational rather than spiritual vs non-spiritual.

When I trip I'm more interested in what I can learn by looking inwardly and challenging my own perceptions and beliefs than trying to find a higher meaning to our existence. I wonder how many spiritual types would have the courage to do the same...

My trips are every bit as enlightening as those of believers. You just couldn't call them "spiritual".




Amen brother!:thumbup:


--------------------
“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.”
― Terence McKenna


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InvisibleMagicalOrangutan
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: ZippyHippyinWA]
    #19141977 - 11/15/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Your brain is entirely physical and dictated ultimately by mere mathematical laws. If psychedelics tell you anything different, they're making you delusional


--------------------
On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze

Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky
We all need more love, and mainly less hate
Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye
That makes the heart's eye cry
Locked deep away in the skies of our minds

It's all in the mind


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