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psilodendron



Registered: 10/18/13
Posts: 15
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast
#19131699 - 11/13/13 03:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Habitat: Dune grasses with ocean-deposited wood debris commonly associated with Psilocybe azurescens. Growing sympatrically with P. azurescens.
Gills: Light brown, numerous, attached.
Stem: Slender, slightly fusiform in one individual, whitish in younger individuals becoming more brown with age. Bluing at base where mycelium joins to fruiting body. Also bluing with physical contact at any point on stem.
Cap: Unusually nipple-like with a pronounced, dark tip. Brown like cooked onion while still on the moist side, not caramel-colored like P. azurescens, and becoming a more tired sandy-brown with age and dryness. Faint blue-black striations evident in lower 1/3 until the margin. Margin is often bluish-black, appearing bruised. The younger specimens maintain heavily recurved, concave bell-like caps unlike P. azurescens whose caps widen and become broad with age. Eldest specimen maintains a concave shape. Pins unseen.
Spore print color: Dark purplish-brown.
Bruising: Stem and cap bruise blue and mycelium even has a blue tint in spots.
Location: Pacific Northwest, SW Washington Coast, USA.
Habitat: Untouched specimen:

Tried to focus on the stem before handling:

The nipple:

Gills:

Structure:

Old specimen:


Group:
-------------------- -psilodendron If parents treated their children as even-handedly as America treats its citizens, one child would get a pony for Christmas and the rest would get cancer.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: psilodendron]
#19131719 - 11/13/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Psilocybe azurescens is likely. They just look weird.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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psilodendron



Registered: 10/18/13
Posts: 15
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said: Psilocybe azurescens is likely. They just look weird.
They sure do! Is there much variation in the species? For all my wanderings in this part of the state, the P. azurescens are fairly uniform in my observations. This was the first oddity I've found.
-------------------- -psilodendron If parents treated their children as even-handedly as America treats its citizens, one child would get a pony for Christmas and the rest would get cancer.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,312
Last seen: 3 days, 14 hours
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: psilodendron]
#19131864 - 11/13/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Psilocybe azurescens
Yes, they look weird but that is not uncommon.
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

Registered: 05/19/13
Posts: 1,729
Loc: Church of the SubGenus
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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You guys know what I'm gonna say....
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: BittrBuffalo]
#19132485 - 11/13/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said:
You guys know what I'm gonna say....
No, I have no idea what you are going to say. Enlighten us?
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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jet li
The One



Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 4,279
Loc: penis double yew
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
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Very INTERESTING!! For lack of any other guess, I suppose P. azurescens. Do you have a microscope OP?
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psilodendron



Registered: 10/18/13
Posts: 15
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: jet li]
#19132982 - 11/13/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
jet li said: Very INTERESTING!! For lack of any other guess, I suppose P. azurescens. Do you have a microscope OP?
Well, not handy, but I'm sure I could find one to utilize.
Not to disregard those who feel it's just P. azurescens, but I have a feeling it's something else, even perhaps a subspecies. The P. azurescens in this part of Washington all fall into a similar, almost replicated morphology. This group, although growing feet from other P. azurescens, doesn't "fit" IMO. Granted, there isn't much research, mycologically, on the morphology of P. azurescens (at least that I've been able to find), but what I have found out there, literature-wise, doesn't portray this form as an example or even mention much for deviation from the "standard" form (type specimen). I do know species can change based on the medium they grow in/upon, but this specimen was growing in the same, typical dune grass, which begs the question: Why would a variation occur in a typical medium? In the plant world, a species can be found existing over a wide range, upon different substrates (granite vs. cipolin) and exhibit some differences like shorter flowers, bigger thorns, etc., but in the end, you still know that Acacia greggii is Acacia greggii.
I am a botanist well before I am a mycologist and I am still learning the laws of this realm. If there is literature out there, beyond the well known and easily accessed, please let me know. I am a sponge for data!
In the end, I've maintained a spore sample and plan to research further.
Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond!
-------------------- -psilodendron If parents treated their children as even-handedly as America treats its citizens, one child would get a pony for Christmas and the rest would get cancer.
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jet li
The One



Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 4,279
Loc: penis double yew
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: psilodendron]
#19133023 - 11/13/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The more I look at it, the more I agree with P. azurescens, but yeah cool morphology if nothing else.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,312
Last seen: 3 days, 14 hours
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: psilodendron]
#19133510 - 11/13/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilodendron said: I am a botanist well before I am a mycologist and I am still learning the laws of this realm. If there is literature out there, beyond the well known and easily accessed, please let me know. I am a sponge for data!
The literature is not going to be much help without microscopic information, however I am pretty sure the microscopy would match P. cyanescens/azurescens/allenii/subaeruginosa.
DNA sequences would help, as we have good sequences for all 4 taxa in the cyanescens complex. Particularly the ITS gene.
The fact that you found it so close to P. azurescens means that it is almost certainly that species though, with unusual morphology. It looks like a classic P. azurescens with the umbo, and the only thing is the cap did not expand normally. Things like that happen sometimes.
If you found it farther away from other Psilocybe species, the chance that it is something else would be higher.
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Coen
Boxer of Spain


Registered: 11/28/12
Posts: 549
Loc: Canada, PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: psilodendron]
#19133867 - 11/13/13 11:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wow! Great post, interesting find.
Quote:
psilodendron said:Growing sympatrically with P. azurescens.
Botanist or no, way to use "sympatrically"! I knew there had to be a word for that.
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Joust
Mycotographer




Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: Coen]
#19133879 - 11/13/13 11:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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azzies for sure
-------------------- ~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~ _________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________ "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen "Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

Registered: 05/19/13
Posts: 1,729
Loc: Church of the SubGenus
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said:
Quote:
BittrBuffalo said:
You guys know what I'm gonna say....
No, I have no idea what you are going to say. Enlighten us?
Print that bitch, sonnn!
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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lemonjello
Étranger

Registered: 09/21/07
Posts: 35
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: BittrBuffalo]
#19134564 - 11/14/13 02:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is my favorite thread this week. Very interesting...it's funny how there can be morphological changes (mutants?) like this that make us question our root understanding of things. Why does it look so funny? It happens sometimes.
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MarcusFreeman


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 376
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: lemonjello]
#19135156 - 11/14/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
lemonjello said: This is my favorite thread this week. Very interesting...it's funny how there can be morphological changes (mutants?) like this that make us question our root understanding of things. Why does it look so funny? It happens sometimes.
mutants just happen. environmental factors play a role as well as many other things. I had a neat mutant when I tried my hands at growing cubensis. It was one mushroom growing off the cap of another mushroom.
-------------------- "The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug." MJK As one ends, another begins.
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psilodendron



Registered: 10/18/13
Posts: 15
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
psilodendron said: I am a botanist well before I am a mycologist and I am still learning the laws of this realm. If there is literature out there, beyond the well known and easily accessed, please let me know. I am a sponge for data!
The literature is not going to be much help without microscopic information, however I am pretty sure the microscopy would match P. cyanescens/azurescens/allenii/subaeruginosa.
DNA sequences would help, as we have good sequences for all 4 taxa in the cyanescens complex. Particularly the ITS gene.
The fact that you found it so close to P. azurescens means that it is almost certainly that species though, with unusual morphology. It looks like a classic P. azurescens with the umbo, and the only thing is the cap did not expand normally. Things like that happen sometimes.
If you found it farther away from other Psilocybe species, the chance that it is something else would be higher.
Thanks, Alan!
So, do cyanescens/azurescens/allenii/subaeruginosa constitute a "tribe" within the genus? In plants, there are groups of species that maintain similar characteristics and it's safe to say they evolved from a common ancestor. These groups are sometimes called "tribes" or "complexes."
Would it be worth sending a sample specimen/spore print to an institution of study? (I'm probably going overboard).
Would this type possibly come true from the spores, or could they potentially generate a typical P. azurescens?
For humor's sake, if it is a clonotype that can be stabilized, a cultivar name may be in order...P. azurescens 'Washington's Witch's Tit'
Hmmmmm....
-------------------- -psilodendron If parents treated their children as even-handedly as America treats its citizens, one child would get a pony for Christmas and the rest would get cancer.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,312
Last seen: 3 days, 14 hours
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: psilodendron]
#19135902 - 11/14/13 11:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilodendron said: So, do cyanescens/azurescens/allenii/subaeruginosa constitute a "tribe" within the genus? In plants, there are groups of species that maintain similar characteristics and it's safe to say they evolved from a common ancestor. These groups are sometimes called "tribes" or "complexes."
Yes they form a tight clade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clade
Quote:
Would it be worth sending a sample specimen/spore print to an institution of study? (I'm probably going overboard).
Yes.
Quote:
Would this type possibly come true from the spores, or could they potentially generate a typical P. azurescens?
Probably they would make typical azurescens, but it's worth investigating.
Quote:
For humor's sake, if it is a clonotype that can be stabilized, a cultivar name may be in order...P. azurescens 'Washington's Witch's Tit'
That would be interesting to know.
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Joust
Mycotographer




Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
psilodendron said:
Quote:
For humor's sake, if it is a clonotype that can be stabilized, a cultivar name may be in order...P. azurescens 'Washington's Witch's Tit'
That would be interesting to know.
Your response to that
-------------------- ~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~ _________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________ "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen "Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira
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ActiveCyanescens
Stranger

Registered: 11/11/13
Posts: 16
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: ID Request - Psilocybe species - WA Coast [Re: Joust]
#19139343 - 11/15/13 12:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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definately an awesome looking psilocybe nice find ! looks like an azzy and cyan had a baby
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