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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: Sse]
    #19126852 - 11/12/13 03:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

unless the enlightened beings thought and pure conscious are inseparable


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlineabsols
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Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: Sse]
    #19127023 - 11/12/13 03:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

it is funny how you twisted the fact of both

it is the thought so the thinker how is still without moving nor having any relation with everything around him

while conscious beings are obviously the reason of caring about itself a lot and reacting consciously to whatever is happening around showing being existing too ..

there is no such thing as pure conscious or enlightened thought ... are you that or what the hell is that ?

the more purity exist the more it would be impossible to realize objective superiority so the more unconscious it would still be, it shows how things exist for you in thoughts and never in truth or reality

also the more being enlightened is true the more the whole being must be objectively real as if its right sights are making him being seen truly existing, so enlightening is opposite to thoughts which cant mean but oneself presence alone


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: absols]
    #19127144 - 11/12/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

pure unimpeded uncreated flowing consciousness

its a matter of subjectivity

I view the unconscious state as the state of samsaric conditioning

objective superiority? sounds pretty subjective to me

no enlightened thinkers? no enlightened creators? possibly then I guess the teachings are coming from ignorance.

I guess there would be no enlightened beings of action unless there is an action of non-action. Come and go as you please; no longer bound by the conditions of this world.

Ultimately enlightenment and thoughts seem inseparable, unless someone is born enlightened and never conditioned/clouded by samsara.

I am not omniscient so I can't say how an enlightened being operates or if they exist at all. If the Buddha was giving teachings and answering questions I would assume he was using some faculty of thought or perhaps it doesn't think at all but simply radiates the teachings from its pure uncreated state. No idea.

no thoughts of self, no actor, no experiencer; just selfless thought, action and experiences?


"you can often tell more about the perceiver than the thing being perceived"


Edited by Sse (11/12/13 04:58 PM)


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Offlineabsols
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Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: Sse]
    #19129787 - 11/13/13 02:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sse said:
objective superiority? sounds pretty subjective to me






here again you show how your mind is only about you, how you are blind to anything else then you
while a self is only what can recognize the existence of something else too, then it becomes a self being, relative entity, so yourself dont exist, then it proves in a way my point being right, like how thoughts that you precious, are always of others never of you nor to
as if you are happy of getting something without any effort of being true

objective superiority is a fact, how can you not see it ?

objective is the free constancy of positive things realities, what doesn't need present will to be by its fact really being positive end

this is only due to true superiority, only superiority is positive source without meaning any, for what superiority cant avoid its constant existence being positive

you should try to realize your means objectively, then you would certainly get the sense of objective value, how by meaning anything realistically, it is very hard because you would face superior values of what is already there that you would be forced to respect to still be your mean relatively then..


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Offlinecheeshcat
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Registered: 06/23/13
Posts: 129
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: absols]
    #19129869 - 11/13/13 03:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

what on earth


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: cheeshcat]
    #19130132 - 11/13/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I try to see everything objectively

but sometimes I have to see things subjectively too, especially what fits own experience / when I have to interact with others :-)

so sometimes I am superior, sometimes I am inferior ;-)

everything is what we think it is, think positively/constructively
we can create with our thoughts...

sometimes no self is the best
sometimes a self is the best , if your house burns down  or you have to search for a job

having a self isn't a problem usually, as long as one is the controller of own thoughts
that usually means moderation, else they can easily take over without knowing it

what do all the great philosophers do? do they meditate, or observe thoughts?
if you have to think all the time, how do you control own thoughts without them controlling you?

reflecting on own thoughts before saying them is a good idea usually
then it doesn't matter if they are subjective or not

good advice can be given both subjectively and objectively

but again, only with the heart can you give advice that truly is in the best interest of others I believe


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OfflineIcyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa
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Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: lessismore]
    #19130178 - 11/13/13 06:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I concider myself being at peace... because I think we are infinite and eternal, without creation or end there is neither life nor death... just different ways of existance...

I think of identity as a dellusion... today I am an atheist, tomorrow I am a muslim and no longer breathing the next, and then a pile of ground a houndred years later. Next I would be many plants who would become animals and people through eating.. ( not that I am either of these)

In the end, as I neither am nor will cease to be, the reason for fearing death; no more existance, would be no more, and thus there iz no fear.

Careful not to stop your body from having any controll at all...(balance ect..) as you might get trouble speaking and get caught in thoughtloops which deattachez you from the situation and more or less might black you out, realizing the rest of the conversation(as an example) has moved on..


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: Icyus]
    #19130243 - 11/13/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

identifying as thoughts is always a delusion, we are not our thoughts, but the controllers/creators of own thoughts

is it possible to create a self (thoughts,emotions,desires) without being too attached to it?

thoughts create attachment,suffering

seems to happen automatically often

let any notion of what "I am" dissipate


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: lessismore]
    #19130266 - 11/13/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I try to see everything objectively


Really? How do you manage that?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: absols]
    #19130582 - 11/13/13 10:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I don't really understand, maybe im not putting enough time and effort into reading this to grasp it... ill come back after ive woken up a bit.

it seems like you are assuming a lot though, adding subjectivity.

from what I see the term objective superiority is subjective. If you were truly abiding in the objective then there would be nothing to call superior, superiority is subjective. What one finds superior could be something totally different from what another finds superior. Objectivity has no positive or negative or superiority. Reality is uncreated, when we build onto it we are creating some level of delusion.

In my day to day living i'm tryin not to view anything outside of true equanimity. One-pointedness without conceptualization/labeling. It could be seen as a constant positive but is it objectively positive? I dunno, that sounds highly influenced by the mind... is it an undeniable fact without influence by personal opinions and feelings?

Didn't you say that all thoughts are about negative others? Not based in reality? Never present? What is all this then?


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlineabsols
Stranger
Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: lessismore]
    #19130615 - 11/13/13 10:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
I try to see everything objectively

but sometimes I have to see things subjectively too, especially what fits own experience / when I have to interact with others :-)

so sometimes I am superior, sometimes I am inferior ;-)

everything is what we think it is, think positively/constructively
we can create with our thoughts...

sometimes no self is the best
sometimes a self is the best , if your house burns down  or you have to search for a job

having a self isn't a problem usually, as long as one is the controller of own thoughts
that usually means moderation, else they can easily take over without knowing it

what do all the great philosophers do? do they meditate, or observe thoughts?
if you have to think all the time, how do you control own thoughts without them controlling you?

reflecting on own thoughts before saying them is a good idea usually
then it doesn't matter if they are subjective or not

good advice can be given both subjectively and objectively

but again, only with the heart can you give advice that truly is in the best interest of others I believe




weird as if I am reading my spirit in writing ...

good that the content is not mine at all ..

look, thoughts are always wrong, philosophers invent objective facts, invent answers to any question
we are conscious freedom, conscious is for being real and freedom is for being superior source, so creating always superior thing to all what is there for positive free space of yours ..

what has an existing value would be for objective superiority to realize consciously
while for the self anyone should constantly be of personal realization that must not have any relation with others and else
and if others seem meaning the same then again that realization stop being to self while it becomes objective, and self find something different to justify being to itself ...

of course what I am saying is personal to me, but I meant to show how thoughts are always wrong, and others wills to enslave humans and manipulate their beings for negative ends

self cant be something you got, or of something that you didn't do, even if that thing is in ones brain.. self is what move without thinking as it is the one being all whole once from the end of move so free able also of seeing around and reacting to right ... self is true, that is why it is called self


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: absols]
    #19130635 - 11/13/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I found the truth....




--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlineabsols
Stranger
Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: Icelander]
    #19130667 - 11/13/13 10:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I try to see everything objectively


Really? How do you manage that?




if he sees with his eyes then he cant but see himself

if he sees through other eyes then he is seeing what he is gonna get

if he sees through his senses then he is confusing everything with himself so he can't be seeing anything ..

to be objective, conscious must realize objective superiority as being else, like recognizing clearly how something else is superior too, superior is whether free or positive source


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: absols]
    #19130749 - 11/13/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

objectivity receives all things equally in regards to status.

is life superior to death objectively? is wellbeing superior to disease objectively?


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: Sse]
    #19130907 - 11/13/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

the state of mind is independent on the state of the body :-)

being healthy doesn't matter, appreciating what you got matters

and accepting yourself, others and any opinion matters

rich as poor, health as no health, life as death


with acceptance there is no subjectivity or objectivity
everything melts together as one , you see yourself in everybody

if we are frustrated about something/others we are frustrated about ourselves
and we no longer love/accept ourself ;-)

just be..


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Offlineabsols
Stranger
Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: Sse]
    #19130968 - 11/13/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

any is superior because for any to be objective, any must be a positive source so it can be constant out of its fact or reality

this is the issue, anyone act being superior but refuse to recognize others existence rights and reject the notion of else being to the concept of existence in general, for what one insist to confuse itself with everything for better rewarding options in being positively conscious

superiority is never in comparaison with else


you want to justify the rejection of else superiority by claiming that superiority never exist

any can always be proven being superior at its own fact, while recognizing else superiority is subjectively being superior right ...

anyway, obviously you don't know facts, which are present for what they are exclusively through constant superior ways of anything and everything existence..

i guess your perception of reality is about physical things or natural life, which are never real actually because never true and only through powers force..

you refuse to admit that existence is true because then any would be itself so reality wont be only one as you want it to stay, fake reality of natural life

but still the fact of existence remain the same

existence is true because superiority is known being the original truth, so when any is superior then there can't be one and reality is necessarily plural as it would be relative to something else being superior too

one is the superior free point, but when any is a superior free point then there cant be one, it is always relative to else superiority which is always free
by definition else superiority is what can't be pointed, same with freedom which is always nothing to everything else


Edited by absols (11/13/13 12:37 PM)


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: White Beard]
    #19130999 - 11/13/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
However, if the impediment is truly fear of being nobody, when one realizes one has always been nothing, there is nothing to let go of, as there is nothing to hold on to.





--------------------


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: lessismore]
    #19131066 - 11/13/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

"the state of mind is independent on the state of the body"

not sure that is true in all cases but I do believe if conditions are made present that contentment and peace can still be cultivated/sustained.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: absols]
    #19131091 - 11/13/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I think im going to retire my conversation with you... nothing personal just not productive, subjectively.

I feel like you are projecting a lot onto me :hehehe: perhaps I just can't make heads or tails of the way you communicate... confusing to me.

I've found my synchronicity and that is really all I need to pursue... I'm not going to adopt some guidelines about what is right/wrong/superior... I have no desire to cultivate those distinctions. My cultivation is on equanimity.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlineabsols
Stranger
Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Fear of death or fear of no self? [Re: lessismore]
    #19131129 - 11/13/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
the state of mind is independent on the state of the body :-)

being healthy doesn't matter, appreciating what you got matters

and accepting yourself, others and any opinion matters

rich as poor, health as no health, life as death


with acceptance there is no subjectivity or objectivity
everything melts together as one , you see yourself in everybody

if we are frustrated about something/others we are frustrated about ourselves
and we no longer love/accept ourself ;-)

just be..




if you accept everything as anything then you are choosing to not be

you cannot be everyone and through everything irrespective the day or the hour.. while ignoring the force that make you look being whatever you do not choose is about inventing false justifications that are not true


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