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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
#19130372 - 11/13/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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buy syringe
make sporeprints from the edible mushrooms you grow make liquid culture from the shrooms you grow(from agar isolation) , enough culture for eternity
each sporeprint is enough for several syringes...
LC or sporeprints can be stored for years sporeprints can be stored for eternity (just place the cap of a mushroom on alufoil, let dry,store it)
if you do agar you only need 1 or 2 spores? to germinate, I forgot how it works that lowlevel ;-) which means 1 sporeprint can give you xxx isolations :-)
1 spore print is enough for eternity, if you do agar/LC
syringes have a limited lifetime though iirc... you better use the syringe you made make LC from it, do agar from it, grow from it
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
#19130730 - 11/13/13 11:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Also if you're just growing a few mono's or less then a LC or agar are both a waste of time imo, typically you should only do agar or LC's if you plan to grow a lot or over a long period of time which is why I don't think it's significant that you'll have to wait an additional 2 weeks or so for it to grow and be tested.
As far as LC's vs Agar though I just don't think they're very comparable. Agar is for isolation and LC is for bulk inoculation. Whether you start your LC from agar or ms is irrelevant. Either way you shouldn't start your LC from an unknown source and expect it to be clean, however if you do start it from a clean source there's likewise no reason you should expect it to be dirty.
 I don't even grow a single full sized monotub and agar is my most valuable tool. I'm not looking for yields but I'm looking for quality and clean viable cultures. There's really no time involved. It's all in a pipeline anyway. After the first 2 weeks there's no waiting there's always work.
You think a MS syringe is ever clean?? Unless you're growing in-vitro fruits and then opening the jar in front of a flow hood or in a SAB and then taking a print and then putting that straight to a LC you're not using a clean spore print.
If you start a LC with a needle you should expect it to be dirty.
Inoculation in general(MS or LC) sucks ass for bulk, Period. mycellium expansion is where it's at ala G2G.
Who in their right mind growing bulk would want to inoculate 100 jars with a less-trusty needle....
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (11/13/13 11:01 AM)
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19130751 - 11/13/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Chilled
Out


Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 261
Loc:
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Not disagreeing with what has been said here (been an interesting read) but could you not use MS syringe to get started with WBS jars (in a SAB as good practise IMO) or other grain jar, wait for colonisation, then grain LC some jars and other jars G2G using a SAB and good sterile procedure (just to try both methods to see which I prefer). Then use a bit of colonised grain for Agar work.
I ask this as tried Agar with both MS syringe and a spore print and both were fiddly and not successful, plus I cant see how either would be a very sterile starting point. Clearly it can be done but since you can still get a isolate but starting with something slightly more contam resistant like a bit of grain, would this not be easier?
Love to hear peoples thoughts on this...
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Chilled]
#19130964 - 11/13/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is only one way to be clean... agar
but sometimes you get clean syringes.... if you use a reputable vendor
sometimes there can be bacteria in though...
agar solves it all, and you don't need a flowhood for success still air box
then you can do agar->LC
Never do biopsy -> LC or syringe->LC , if you want to be successful first time same goes for sporeprint ->syringe .. no go.... assume any sporeprint to be contamed
might work first 2 times, and fail on the 3th if you do agar you will get close to 100% success which is much better
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Chilled] 1
#19130985 - 11/13/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chilled said: Not disagreeing with what has been said here (been an interesting read) but could you not use MS syringe to get started with WBS jars (in a SAB as good practise IMO) or other grain jar, wait for colonisation, then grain LC some jars and other jars G2G using a SAB and good sterile procedure (just to try both methods to see which I prefer). Then use a bit of colonised grain for Agar work.
you sure can
Quote:
Chilled said:
I ask this as tried Agar with both MS syringe and a spore print and both were fiddly and not successful, plus I cant see how either would be a very sterile starting point. Clearly it can be done but since you can still get a isolate but starting with something slightly more contam resistant like a bit of grain, would this not be easier?
Love to hear peoples thoughts on this...
colonized grain works fine, it takes off quickly on agar(because of the lower nutrition level in the agar)
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19132439 - 11/13/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Agar is your best bet
and is easy... once you buy agar agar at your local supermarket/health food store it is a gelatine substitute from seaweed, for vegans
agar is the only way to get growing reliably do it right from start, because before you know you will get contam in everything just do agar from start, save yourself some time
a still air box will make your innoculations more successful and you use that for agar
if you don't do agar... you can keep buying syringes as about the only option else I wouldn't count on reliable growing
search for "oatmeal agar" tek, can recommend that one, works -very- good, mycellium loves it no need for PDA, oatmeal you usually got at home
edit: fixed the misunderstanding, thx for mentioning :-)
Edited by lessismore (11/13/13 06:16 PM)
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: lessismore]
#19132466 - 11/13/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
mio said: a glovebox(still air box) will make your innoculations more successful and you use that for agar
A GB(Glove Box) is not the same thing as a SAB(Still Air Box).
A SAB is better for this hobby than a GB because the gloves are attached to you and not the box.
Making it possible to flame sterilize your tool outside the box between transfers.
Also when people try to "seal" their GBs, the spots that they missed(like around the lid) will constantly suck air in and out with your movements.
This will negate the "still air environment"....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (11/13/13 06:12 PM)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: PussyFart]
#19132474 - 11/13/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, that is what I ment too sorry if it was unclear, fixed it in edit now
still air box is what you want, any high bedroller tub with 2 holes in it so you can get your hands in, and a lid
for agar innoc/transfer: inoculation loop is what is used, or scalpel (innoc loop can be made from twisted wire + a pen) alcohol lamp is a plus and gloves are a plus too, sterilize red hot outside, bring inside
agar will make your life much easier
oatmeal agar is some good stuff..... if you cannot find PDA, or MDA i.e., pda/mda might be easier to mix together initially, dunno
cubensis seems to love oatmeal agar to what I've seen, it's a pretty good tek, grows perfectly - perfect consistency
only downside with oatmeal agar is it can be bothersome to mix together IMO PDA/MDA might be better there , might save time in preparation (no need to extract the juice from oatmeal) benefit is it is very easy to find, PDA/MDA you might not have luck finding
agar is nutrient less, you need some nutrients for your agar, for mycellium to grow in your jars/petris PDA = potato dextrose agar MDA = malt dextrose agar or oatmeal agar
Edited by lessismore (11/13/13 06:28 PM)
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twistedty
Forcefully Retired



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 5,487
Loc: Middle
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19133205 - 11/13/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
I don't even grow a single full sized monotub and agar is my most valuable tool. I'm not looking for yields but I'm looking for quality and clean viable cultures. There's really no time involved. It's all in a pipeline anyway. After the first 2 weeks there's no waiting there's always work.
You think a MS syringe is ever clean?? Unless you're growing in-vitro fruits and then opening the jar in front of a flow hood or in a SAB and then taking a print and then putting that straight to a LC you're not using a clean spore print.
If you start a LC with a needle you should expect it to be dirty.
Inoculation in general(MS or LC) sucks ass for bulk, Period. mycellium expansion is where it's at ala G2G.
Who in their right mind growing bulk would want to inoculate 100 jars with a less-trusty needle....

agar is the best hands down no argument.
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