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InvisibleFungi
Psycho4ctive


Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 393
Loc: Melbourne Flag
Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19091056 - 11/05/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I have what would most call, not the cleanest house, I have dust, and all sorts of possible contams in the air, I've so far gotten 8 jars inoculated and they are all contam free. Did it in open air. I did follow the usual cleansing techniques when filling the process. Open air is fine.


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Formerly known as Psycho4ctive

To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic, Just Take a Pinch of Psychedelic



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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Stromrider]
    #19091130 - 11/05/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I seem to only be able to grow mold with my print. I tried a different trick this time. Fingers crossed.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19091176 - 11/05/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fungi said:
I have what would most call, not the cleanest house, I have dust, and all sorts of possible contams in the air, I've so far gotten 8 jars inoculated and they are all contam free. Did it in open air. I did follow the usual cleansing techniques when filling the process. Open air is fine.




8 jars is not a good meter.


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Edited by SpitballJedi (11/05/13 05:05 PM)


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InvisibleFungi
Psycho4ctive


Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 393
Loc: Melbourne Flag
Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19091334 - 11/05/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well it gave me fruits :smile:


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Formerly known as Psycho4ctive

To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic, Just Take a Pinch of Psychedelic



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Offlinetwistedty
Forcefully Retired
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Registered: 07/01/12
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Stromrider]
    #19093875 - 11/06/13 03:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:
I'll say it again to make sure it known. Agar is the way to go. No question.





couldnt agree more, its as easy as making jello.

LCs are 10x more work much more equipment etc test jars blah blah blah. and takes 3x longer to see results and thats if its not contammed.

agar is easy as fuck you throw w/e you want on it spores, swabs, syringe, fresh fruits w/e

and you will know if you have a clean culture in less than a week.

hands down the most common sense approach and the easiest. buy case of petri dishes and 500 grams of pda and your done.

no magnetic stirrers, syringes or crazy recipes for lcs. just dishes and pda and water.

oh ya and you can make isolates the list goes on and on and on about the positive points of agar vs LCs

oh ya and once you get an isolate you can make slants and keep them in your fridge for year(s)


Edited by twistedty (11/06/13 03:02 AM)


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19093883 - 11/06/13 03:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
:solidnod:

If one were to insist on LC, then at least make it from agar of known to be good genetics.




making an LC with an isolate agar wedge is counter productive when you can take that wedge and throw it into a sterilized grain jar let it colonize then g2g and save yourself 2-3 weeks of time


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: twistedty]
    #19093903 - 11/06/13 03:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

twistedty said:
Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
:solidnod:

If one were to insist on LC, then at least make it from agar of known to be good genetics.




making an LC with an isolate agar wedge is counter productive when you can take that wedge and throw it into a sterilized grain jar let it colonize then g2g and save yourself 2-3 weeks of time




Well in my case I'm using it to make galindoi lc. I figured that would work better than inoculating with a wedge in this case since galindoi tends to stall when shaken


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Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Stromrider]
    #19094715 - 11/06/13 10:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know why people hate on LC so much. Ime they're at least as reliable as MS inoculation, and honestly I believe they're even more reliable because you can see visible growth more quickly, they're more likely to take hold (I'll often have spores not germinate), and once you know you have a clean culture you can noc up hundreds or even possibly thousands of jars. With a MS syringe you still should be testing it first, but even if you know it's good it will typically give you not much more than 20 jars. Not sure what a previous poster meant by needing more equipment either, LC's can safely be done in the open air provided you have lids with self healing injection ports. Agar work cannot be done without petris and a glove box at the very minimum.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: twistedty]
    #19094773 - 11/06/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

twistedty said:
Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
:solidnod:

If one were to insist on LC, then at least make it from agar of known to be good genetics.




making an LC with an isolate agar wedge is counter productive when you can take that wedge and throw it into a sterilized grain jar let it colonize then g2g and save yourself 2-3 weeks of time




I agree. But the argument is meaningless if someone insists on making LC. If they insist, then I say at least do it with agar of a proven culture.

Some people can't resist the Sirens' call of LC. I would like to at least give an option of the best way to have a clean LC. That's the best way I'm aware of.

Krypto, I don't hate on LC, but making one from grains or MS is sketchy and it's a lot of invested time if it fails.


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Invisible36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19094948 - 11/06/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The way to go is to do both, really.

Start your spores on agar. Always.

Get some good growth, then throw a wedge in a grain jar. At the same time, have several LC jars pre-made. Inoculate those with agar wedges.

Let the LC and the grain colonize.

When the grain is done, G2G it and get to growing.

When the LC is done, do some test jars. Once you find a clean LC, you now have thousands of jars' worth of inoculant, and you lost no time because you did them side by side.

And if you don't get a clean LC, well you lost the use of a few jars for a while and a few cents worth of malt. But you still have your plates and master jars to actually work with.

It all depends on your scale. When you start doing more, LC can be useful, but you just have to assume that not all of your LCs are gonna come out clean, so take the shotgun approach.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Offlinetwistedty
Forcefully Retired
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Registered: 07/01/12
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19095854 - 11/06/13 03:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i dunno i have done LC for fun so i guess youre right it was successful just a PITA.  dont mean to hate on it but i know it sounds like i do.

and i agree all spores should always start on agar after a few successful runs with ms syringes etc once you learn the cycle of cultivation.

peaceeee


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Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: twistedty]
    #19114249 - 11/10/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

RR himself has stated that he has not seen isolates or monocultures outperform MS, so other than ensuring a clean starting culture going agar to lc is a useless step. Even if you start with a clean culture I still would not blindly use a LC, or an agar wedge for that matter, without first testing it. Even with agar you can have hidden contaminants and also introduce contaminants in the transfer. If you have a clean MS syringe and self healing injection ports on your LC jar then it's much safer and easier to simply inject one into the other. Once you know it's clean, and the likelihood that it won't be is the same likelihood as nocing up a grain jar with that MS syringe which I'd hope would be quite low, then you just stick it in the fridge and it'll last you a couple years or more and I doubt you'll run out even if you don't do g2g transfers to expand your spawn unless you're trying to produce them on an industrial scale. It's very common to inoculate spawn with LC in industrial growing for that matter too simply because it is so easy. You think they're taking agar wedges and dropping them into all their spawn bags when they could simply stab and inject down the line?


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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female

Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
    #19114328 - 11/10/13 11:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

answers on this is simple.

use culture bottles, and agar.
any contams can be seen, and any isolation is easy.

add sterile water and shake. instant slurry in seconds.

small bottles 250 mil, big ones 500 ml.
you can make gallons in minits of slurry.
clone or MS , your choice.



ive bought spores only 3 times in 35 yrs.
master spore handling, and you shall never run out.

we handle spores on sterile plastics, and slides,
often sealing them in clear packing tape.


*note, the size of the large prints,
are close the the size of the entire slide,
that the exotic print is on.
no way, my cube prints, are gonna fit on a slide.


--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (11/10/13 11:12 AM)


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
    #19114576 - 11/10/13 12:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
RR himself has stated that he has not seen isolates or monocultures outperform MS



You know I like you, but I'm gonna ask you to post a link to that.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
, so other than ensuring a clean starting culture going agar to lc is a useless step.



I know this logic is based on the previous quote, but it's still nonsense.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Even if you start with a clean culture I still would not blindly use a LC, or an agar wedge for that matter, without first testing it. Even with agar you can have hidden contaminants and also introduce contaminants in the transfer.



I agree. But, it's way easier and less time consuming to catch contams on agar than on grain. And waaaaaay easier than LC.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
If you have a clean MS syringe and self healing injection ports on your LC jar then it's much safer and easier to simply inject one into the other.



This is true, but most spore syringes are not 100% contam free

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Once you know it's clean, and the likelihood that it won't be is the same likelihood as nocing up a grain jar with that MS syringe which I'd hope would be quite low,



But with grains, you are more likely to see the contam than you are with LC.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
You think they're taking agar wedges and dropping them into all their spawn bags when they could simply stab and inject down the line?



Do you think they are making LC with MS?


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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Registered: 06/19/13
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19114812 - 11/10/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If you made 10 lc's and only 1 didn't contam, you would still have a near unlimited amount of inoculate. I guess I am partial to lc though. I just restarted my grow from a lc I forgot to throw out in the haze after a bad trip a few months ago.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
    #19114839 - 11/10/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

...unless you contaminate it later.


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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19114859 - 11/10/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
...unless you contaminate it later.



I guess that's fair. Haha.


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OfflineGymspawn
Stranger
Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 100
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
    #19115138 - 11/10/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Does anyone know of a good working LC tek? the last on I tried didn't work but I had no way or material for GE and I couldn't afford a GE port or whatever they call it so I was only able to use the tek that only had the silicon injection port. So what can I do to make an LC without contams and a closed GE port that I can also shake without wetting the tyvek of SFD


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
    #19116120 - 11/10/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
RR himself has stated that he has not seen isolates or monocultures outperform MS, so other than ensuring a clean starting culture going agar to lc is a useless step. Even if you start with a clean culture I still would not blindly use a LC, or an agar wedge for that matter, without first testing it. Even with agar you can have hidden contaminants and also introduce contaminants in the transfer. If you have a clean MS syringe and self healing injection ports on your LC jar then it's much safer and easier to simply inject one into the other. Once you know it's clean, and the likelihood that it won't be is the same likelihood as nocing up a grain jar with that MS syringe which I'd hope would be quite low, then you just stick it in the fridge and it'll last you a couple years or more and I doubt you'll run out even if you don't do g2g transfers to expand your spawn unless you're trying to produce them on an industrial scale. It's very common to inoculate spawn with LC in industrial growing for that matter too simply because it is so easy. You think they're taking agar wedges and dropping them into all their spawn bags when they could simply stab and inject down the line?





i would also like a link to where RR says this as well :smile:.

i dont even think he does LCs on his dvd.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: twistedty]
    #19130321 - 11/13/13 08:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know how to find the quote, I've just seen it many times over the years. I can't say without reading it, but I didn't take it to mean that a good isolate will not outperform a ms grow, but just making an isolate in itself on average the ms grow will do better. In other words you'd have to spend a lot of time testing out various isolates to find one that does better than MS. I never said anything about RR in regards to LC's, he typically does not like them for the same reasons you guys have stated.

Also if you're just growing a few mono's or less then a LC or agar are both a waste of time imo, typically you should only do agar or LC's if you plan to grow a lot or over a long period of time which is why I don't think it's significant that you'll have to wait an additional 2 weeks or so for it to grow and be tested.

As far as LC's vs Agar though I just don't think they're very comparable. Agar is for isolation and LC is for bulk inoculation. Whether you start your LC from agar or ms is irrelevant. Either way you shouldn't start your LC from an unknown source and expect it to be clean, however if you do start it from a clean source there's likewise no reason you should expect it to be dirty.


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